Cheap 79th St. converted 2BR listing

It's well-laid out for multiple occupants (I always like that about post-wars) but I don't know that I'd call $6,400 a month to carry ~1000 sf "cheap."

n.b. that I'm assuming 75% of list financed at 5%, plus full maintenance.

I think sq footage is at least 1100 sq ft as far a fair real estate listing will go. The price seems very good and likely the seller is looking for a bidding war to move it at market price of possibly $1mm plus.

Good floorplan, though I'd take out that third bedroom and return the space to the living area. Maintenance is ok, but it's a low amenity building (doorman, laundry room), and fairly ordinary mid-range 1960s construction. The unit appears to have been on and off the market since 2014, and there are old discussions about sponsor ownership, which may partially explain why things are trading at a discount. Both the original bedrooms are fairly narrow (and this seems to be common in other units in this building), and reasonable, but not abundant closet space. Condition is unclear - elements of some of the photos look like they've been photoshopped, so there may be reno work required. Were I actively looking for a 2br I'd consider a viewing.

Ah. Need for reno may explain the asking price.

Ali, if you are looking at the monthlies at 5%, then all of Manhattan needs to come down in PPSF by 35% to account for the recent interest rate movements? It is tough because I don't think that Manhattan benefitted from the lowest rates because the lowest rates corresponded with the time of highest flight from the city.

I am starting to look and will probably buy next year. I don't care about the reno or the buildings age (as long as no asbestos and not 'original' condition). I am more slanted towards the most sqft for the money in one of the better UES school districts. I have a boy and a girl, so three BRs are needed. Clearly I would prefer a third with all dimensions greater than 10 feet but this one is so so inexpensive relative to 'true' 3BRs.

There is probably something amiss. Red flags:

- On the market for 4 years now.
- Sold for $1.2M in 2014, now asking $800K. Market is down, but it ain't down that much.
- Went into contract twice over the past 1.5 years, only to return both times.

Previous discussions about the building have some info. Perhaps bank financing is difficult.

Historically the building hasn't been an easy sell.

I would do some due diligence regarding that claim about maintenance.

Third bedroom is not legal.

Id bet on facade issues, whether marked unsafe and in need of major repairs, or recent completion of major repairs with a very large bill/assessment on the horizon.

Expect this to be a running theme as the big (non brick) developers of the city continue to lobby for overregulation and maintenance to bankrupt buildings and turn them into new development sites.

No, I dont wear tin foil hats or believe that Sl Green, Related, Toll bros,etc meet monthly in some underground bunker at Hudson Yards but the pressure put on older buildings is unsustainable.

@truthskr It’s not really a matter of over regulation - fundamentally the streets and buildings need to be safe. The unfortunate truth is that maintaining an old bldg in a safe condition is just really damn expensive - just as is bldg a new building - and the regulation is necessary to compel these owners of old bldgs to maintain them. The unbalance is in the financial assistance. New buildings get huge subsides - old bldgs get didly squat. Now if old bldgs got financial benefits for maintaining their bldgs in good order akin to a tax abatement, now maybe there wouldn’t be such an a issue.

Owning property in general is just really damn expensive…..

There is facade regulation and then there is facade mafia which funds increasing regulation and charges 3x what it costs elsewhere with special inspectors, architects and firms doing the actual work in cahoots. Some of the regulation is really excessive as in the need to tap tiles with a small hammer (force level is conveniently not defined) including the parts which don’t face the street. Given the low percentage of condo/coop owners in NYC, the politician don’t care about screwing condo coop owners in NYC.

Another problem with building regulation is excruciating slow pace at which the DOB works and how many meaningless objections they can raise in each round of review after taking their own sweet time. You can of course fight them and spend a lot of money while you wait for resolution and hope that you don't get penalized as you dared to question the overlords at DOB.

WRT the “hammer tapppinp”: To an engineer nothing beats a hands-on inspection. Something may look safe to the eyes but when you actually go to touch it it falls apart in your hands. The facade needs to be actually handled to determine its condition. The regulations are just directing owners to do what they should.

Regarding construction professionals being “in cahoots”: an owner is free to hire whomever they want to do the work for them. An owner should not hire parties that have conflicts of interest with one another. Special Inspections are not unique to NYC - they are important tool throughout used throughout the country as the AHJ can not be everywhere at once. They are to be third party to the one performing the work (contractor) so that there is no conflict.

Also tapping things with hammers is an ASCE-defined method to determine the condition of construction materials and structural elements. It also does not define a “force” as that is discretionary and site/material specific. You should not be tapping a piece of hollow terra cotta clay tile with the same force as you would tap a concrete slab. And not all terra cotta is made the same with the same internal ribbing oriented in the same direction so no two terra cotta pieces can withstand the same force either.

Maintenance on the high side, most units this size are ~$2500 to $3000 in midtown and UES. Typical price of a 1000 to 1 2/2 with a dining room or converted 3rd br is $1m to $1.5m depending on condition.

"good deals " in this building were previously discussed - it appears the building itself has issues which means the unit cannot be financed. The unit is an amazing deal as far as price if you are a cash buyer and not concerned about illiquidity.

Thank you everyone. This tread was insightful.

Sponsor owns 59% of units. Owners still don't control the board after 38 years as a coop. Mortgages will be very hard to obtain. There will be strange people coming and going since sponsors can rent to whomever they want for whatever terms.

If I were the sponsor, I would stop putting a dime into maintenance and collapse the coop and rebuild a luxury building. Maybe there are RS tenants who would make that hard, so I'd just stop doing much maintenance and manage it for cash flow.

In my experience the 3x markup isn't coming from architects but from the site safety plans. There are plenty of engineering firms to bid against each other, but not so many tradesmen who've passed all the NYC-specific certifications required to be a Designated Rigging Foreman under the new regs...and they know it.

Nice looking apartment ... but at what cost