Living in Morningside Gardens

Great question. I am an agent that works most of my business from the West 90's to the West 160's. While I have had a strong practice- it doesn't seem to match up with the level of activity I see in Brooklyn. There is a slowly moving northward trend- not just with the 2 new condos right by Morningside Gardens, but now Toll Brothers is opening up a new condo (showroom should be opening any day now) at 103rd and Broadway...with several new luxury condo buildings from 87th to 96th- slowly moving north. To the East of you there has also been an increase in luxury condos in Central Harlem- with a cluster from 122nd to 125th. The character of 125th st is changing as well. And of course a bit further north is the new Columbia campus expansion and Manhattanville Factory District with the Taystee Factory Building with a focus on Life Sciences - the infrastructure is being strengthened in the area considerably.

One thought as to the slow rate of change for buyers...While there are some great retail and restaurants a bit further north of Columbia's main campus, including Central Harlem or even points north like Hamilton Heights- there just isn't enough as it just feels sporadic.

I recently launched a podcast focusing on these neighborhoods- where I drill down into fun, interesting stories, including some relatively forgotten stories- i.e. I am scripting an episode now about the former secret nuclear testing lab at Columbia (likely to be released next year) or how the modern day image of Santa Clause took shape in Harlem

We did a couple of flips there quite a while ago and I think you might still have a lot of long time entrenched shareholders from back when there were some pretty solid restrictions.

We looked at a unit for ourselves and the recent battles between shareholders gave us pause.

Battles over...?

I wonder about those windows, nicely proportioned as they are, and insulation in the cold months.

Tranquil campus, sure, but that's a trade-off, as I see it, for walkability

It was a "flyers posted in the lobby from the aggrieved parties" kind of a situation.

For my own part, I have a unit in a building where there's significant dissent, so 1) I realize how nuanced those situations can be, and 2) I realize that they're not necessarily deal breakers, but still... annoying.

>> I don't understand why more potential homeowners don't see it as the alternative to Brooklyn which is now actually more expensive.

Condos in gentrified areas of Brooklyn (Park Slope, Bk Heights, Boerum Hill, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Dumbo, Downtown Brooklyn, Fort Green etc) are more expensive than Midtown East condos. You can also get many non doormen small condo buildings with reasonable CC plus taxes. Over the last 10 years, amenities in these neighborhoods are much better and there is a critical mass of young highly educated residents.

Coop approval aside, young homebuyers don't want giant coops like Morningside Gardens with a mix of age groups as residents which is unavoidable if the building is more than 30 years old.

Perhaps new basic condos will be more desirable north and just South of Columbia as prime Brooklyn prices have gone up but "cool factor" doesn't exist there.

Here are examples of lower priced condo competition in Brooklyn.

https://streeteasy.com/building/483-hart-street-brooklyn/ph?featured=1
https://streeteasy.com/building/85-herkimer-street-brooklyn/6?featured=1

@front_porch - I know what its like living in a building with such aggrieved parties
It's really a shame, drags on for years, and causes a lot of bad blood between neighbors. Makes it hard to get things done as a building as there is a general lack of trust and hard to get buy-in for any large initiatives requiring a vote.
I'd honestly stay clear of any building with that kind of reputation.

@300 - first listing definitely stretching the def. of Bushwick. We visited a friend a block from there a few weeks ago. About a $30+ uber from Williamsburg and watched a guy relieve himself onto the neighboring building while we buzzed to be let in.. at 6pm, nice.

steve123,
In the past decade or so I think many have viewed a number of Brooklyn neighborhoods through rose colored glasses. I've had arguments with people who's views have been colored by their needs to get the Real Estate they want but can't afford.
“It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair

Ha.
Steve, I have watched a grown man mid-day take a dump in front of the famous Apthorp while the attentive doormen were trying to get him to go away. The examples I posted weren't meant to say those condos are so great. They were just comparable in the price to the Morningside Gardens, which is also in not so great location.

Hart is only $800 per sq ft not factoring the outdoor space you get. It is a condo and new.

>>There is a slowly moving northward trend- not just with the 2 new condos right by Morningside Gardens, but now Toll Brothers is opening up a new condo (showroom should be opening any day now) at 103rd and Broadway...with several new luxury condo buildings from 87th to 96th- slowly moving north<<

Developers will be hard pressed to get approval for high-rises in the relatively newly-designated Morningside Heights historic district. So if they want to 'push north' they'll need to skip that particular swath.

BTW @UptownSpecialist --could you post a link to your podcast info? Sounds interesting!

It's definitely getting more difficult for developers to find space for larger buildings especially in Morningside due to the quantity of land/buildings owned by not just Columbia but all the academic institutions in Morningside. I routinely have conversations with buyers that want to buy in Morningside but the product mix isn't there, so they are forced to consider other locations. Both Vandewater and Claremont Hall found creative solutions- but the options for these types of solutions starts becoming more of a challenge looking forward.

Morningside Gardens is definitely not right for a lot of buyers- as most of the buyers I have suggested apartments in the complex to have had extreme reactions and very few have had a tepid response. Still when they tell me what they want and their budget- Morningside Gardens is frequently the rare match...at least in terms of what they ask for vs. budget rather than what they really want- and then we go back and revisit their search requirements.

I am still surprised that many of the neighborhoods in Upper Manhattan haven't stronger demand while Brooklyn thrives. The neighborhoods have come a long way in recent years- but as I said, the retail mix is still far weaker than the trendier shops opening in Brooklyn.

As to my podcast I am not sure if they allow a web site to be posted on this board, but if you google Harlem Stories and podcast you will find it. The initial stories were thrown together quickly, but I am now working on writing/verifying far more interesting stories looking forward- such as the Forgotten Nuclear Testing Lab at Columbia, how the modern version of Santa Claus was influenced by connections to Harlem and Hamilton Heights, How I accidentally sold my client a townhouse constructed to be a brothel back in the 1890's- and the clients loved the story, or simply some updates on upcoming changes in these neighborhoods

Is Claremont Hall selling? I know StreetEasy lists the launch date as 6/29/2022, but I'd bet it was before that with the usual "off market" offerings (and even the NY Post article saying sales launched in April https://nypost.com/2022/04/14/massive-luxury-condo-tower-is-rising-from-this-nyc-church-campus/amp/ ). How many contracts do they have? (None officially on SE, but 7 "No Longer Available" as of the same date 10/17/2022). Even if those are are in fact in contract 1 a month is a kind of sucky track record in any market, much less an "on fire" one. Perhaps they are putting tons in contract but keeping it a secret, although I don't know why they would be coming that. And pretty universally when I've heard claims about how well projects have been selling but they are just keeping the numbers under wraps it turned out to be bullshit (like 1 Manhattan Square and some others ... cough, cough).

I think perhaps a reason the Upper Manhattan neighborhoods aren't doing as well as some in Brooklyn is because certain buyers can't bring themselves to engage in the same denial regarding certain qualities of the area that they can bring themselves to exhibit willful blissful ignorance for with Brooklyn (for whatever reasons).

I know that Claremont Hall is finding buyers and they haven't reported contracts yet. I was aware of some of what's on offer a few months prior to the June 29th launch- though at that point I only was aware of approximate prices. I don't know how well it is selling, but Vandewater is now offering incentives on the remaining 2 or more beds. I can offer that Vandewater Studios and 1 beds have sold pretty well overall- not a surprise given the proximity to Columbia and lack of condos in Morningside. The 2 beds are around 2/3rd's sold, but that is still a way to go. The 3 and 4 beds haven't sold as well- and while larger apartments were needed in the area- these are a different price point that wasn't well established in the area and the larger apartments did much better on the other side of the park at 300 West 122nd st or 99 Morningside. I imagine Claremont Hall will have similar results to Vandewater.

Also interesting - Toll Brothers new building on 103rd and Broadway has set up their showroom (not sure if it's open yet- if not it should be any day) almost directly across the street from Claremont Hall's showroom.

UptownSpecialist, I got curious about Central (around 125th east of 5th avenue) and West Harlem after reading this post. It seems public school rankings on Niche and other similar websites are not so great. Are Charter schools in that area much preferred over regular public schools?

Hi 300,
I have a slightly different border than what Streeteasy defines as Central Harlem and East Harlem. I consider East Harlem East of 5th Ave and Central Harlem West of 5th. For most of the area- the dividing line of Central Harlem and West Harlem is the parks (Morningside, St Nicholas and Jackie Robinson) - as there is a difference in elevation (valley vs. heights) within the parks. West Harlem includes Morningside Heights, Manhattanville and Hamilton Heights.

While I am not very knowledgeable in the schools/charter schools- yes, they are much preferred and numerous. I know there is a STEM high school on the campus of City College that is highly ranked, but generally speaking, yes, the public schools are not so great.

Thank you. East of 5th is exactly what I consider central Harlem. A lot of amenities close to 125th Street and West of 5th including Wholefoods and a few famous restaurants.

Out of curiosity, browsed this on Streeteasy. Pretty fancy finishes with sub-zero etc.

https://streeteasy.com/building/300-west

There is a Trader Joes coming in diagonally across the street from the Whole Foods. The building where it will be located has topped off and the glass facade is in- so it's expected to be opening in the next year and a half or so. Much of 125th St is under redevelopment- East and West.

300 West 122nd st (aka 300 West) - has been one of the best selling buildings of 2021 and early 2022. The building is about 92% sold. I have taken a bunch of buyers to the building, but haven't yet sold a unit there. The few blocks near this have a lot of nicer new/newish condos- and the 2 Morningside Heights buildings I had mentioned are just across the park- also on or near 122nd st. This is exactly what I meant when I was surprised that there hasn't been as much interest in these neighborhoods as there has been in Brooklyn.

Brooklyn is an entirely different animal. Harlem is just an uptown neighborhood of Manhattan. I've lived in Washington heights / Harlem, completely different experience than living in Brooklyn. Brooklyn is just an entirely different world, different vibe.

As someone who's been visiting New York since the early 70s I always find it interesting when people make comments like the neighborhood hasn't been discovered, not much interest. It's like saying Columbus discovered America ; ) I'm just being cheeky, of course I know what you mean...

We just did two deals in East Harlem, this neighborhood and the product worked for these buyers.

Thank you Uptown Specialist. Looks like steady growth in amenities in that area.

Keith, I agree that Harlem is probably more comparable to one of the Brooklyn neighborhoods as Brooklyn is big with significant variation in prices, transportation, amenities, and school quality of different neighborhoods.

Guess what I'm just trying to say is the buyer for Harlem versus Brooklyn is apples and oranges. And of course as you point out 300, Brooklyn is a borough in Harlem is a neighborhood.

And upon rereading uptown's email it seems he's just wondering why these uptown neighborhoods haven't caught fire like some of the Brooklyn neighborhoods.

I have a lot of buyers approach me and say "I am looking to buy in Harlem/Morningside/Hamilton Heights or perhaps in Brooklyn". When I say Brooklyn- the vast majority of buyers that come my way typically mean Greenpoint, Bushwick, Williamsburg, Downtown, Park Slope, and Bed Stuy and other proximate areas. I have referred a lot of business to agents that specialize in these areas of Brooklyn. I have also received some clients that have moved from Brooklyn to Upper Manhattan.