Powerhouse Condo Not Selling Well!! Financial Difficulties Arise

goolsbee how do you know 914 sold for $870K...

"goolsbee how do you know 914 sold for $870K..."

He doesn't.
And i know for a fact that 914 did not sell for 870K. :)

LIC is a complete shithole. Why would you knowingly choose to live there? I understand some people can't afford manhattan but at lease have the class to choose brooklyn instead. Even the name sounds disgusting - "Long Island City" - I picture a bunch of big-haired Long Island floozies running around yelling in their nasal pitched voices about how they can't find a single place to get their "stylish" nails done.

What kind of loser criticizes a place he has never been? Sounds like someone with an insecurity complex.

> Why would you knowingly choose to live there?

"value"

It's obviously a great value to buy at the peak and watch it decline 50-75%. I wish I had thought of that way to make money - sorry, I meant lose my entire down payment. Brilliant value analysis by LICC and eunich. Plus you get the added bonus of living in a shitty area.

From a guy living in a rent control studio.
Jesus! You sure are living large NYC10013...you bum!

Typical loser that can't afford to buy and crying about it constantly.

> Typical loser that can't afford to buy and crying about it constantly.

Lashing out at the renters who called it right is step 4. of the bitter bubble buyers recovery program.

Pretty transparent, ericho.

Never said renting is wrong. But you sure sound stupid for a renter.

are your standards higher or lower for renters?

There are some serious sorry souls on these boards.

"are your standards higher or lower for renters?"

Renting is fine.
Buying is fine if the price is right.
LIC is fine.
Manhattan is fine.
Dumbo is fine.
Williamsburg is fine.

There are rich and poor people in all neighbors in the 5 boroughs. I don't get why there is so much animosity against LIC. Just because ericho75 and LICComment lives there and you guys hate their guts, doesn't mean it's a bad neighborhood.

> Just because ericho75 and LICComment lives there and you guys hate their guts, doesn't mean it's a
> bad neighborhood.

Its not a bad neighborhood, its a mediocre neighborhood.

It just happened to be selling for good neighborhood prices in the middle of a real estate bubble, making it a horrible investment.

How would you classify as a horrible investment?
There were units sold for mid 500 dollar psf 2 months ago. Over the past few weeks, we're getting units showing up in contract at 600-700 dollar psf. So this recent pickup in housing have caused prices to firm up pretty quickly in LIC. Isn't this a good investment? People that bought in the 500s just got a 10-15% increase in value.

"People that bought in the 500s just got a 10-15% increase in value."

Investors in the Powerhouse, in LIC, in a 50% sold (and that's generous) new development - are making a positive return on real estate in the middle of the wost downturn in housing that anyone can remember. Could you explain this phenomenon because this is a good one!

I know of people in contract for units in this building have been able to renegotiate their deals to the tune of 20-25% price reductions or upgrade to larger units. There are several sales comps in this building appearing on ACRIS in the mid-to-low 500s. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? THIS IS ALL IN THE LAST MONTH AND A HALF!

Nick26,
BULLSHIT! Currently there are only 1 unit that currently closed in the low 500s.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_val_sales.shtml

Show me? You can't, because it's not true.

actually there were two or three confirmed to have closed in the 500's but they were on lower floors and harder to sell. made sense for space but lacks any type of view. the rest have been in the 600's and 700's

watch out below: carolst is a broker.

true, a couple of the units in the low 500s are on the 2nd floor. a unit in the mid-500s is on the 4th floor. everything i said is fact and confirmed with buyers. but if you look just at acris you miss the whole picture - what these buyers originally contracted for and what they ultimately paid (read: studio is now a 2BR!). to me it's irrelevent what the $ psf is - you can easily see that this building has marked itself down almost 25% and the spring buying season is over now, rates are up 1% in the last few weeks with every indication that they are going to tick higher and no one wants to lend...watch out for 3Q and 4Q 2009!

@lic11101 am form Spain so i def dont write as well as you do :)

about the wells fargo issue supposedly after June they wont do it anymore so relax no need to jump into bad argument

@carolst or you work there or you are a hater that paid high price
its no big deal you paid 600 or you paid 550 long term you should be fine
on the other hand the powerhouse has a lot of issues and next week the tennis club is closing someone is taking over the land and a nice building will come up right in front so whever is in front or in the roof forget about the view you have right now.

a friend of mine tried to make a deal at powerhouse and he got rejected because they did not agree on his request to get free parking. powerhouse will lose lot of deals and they dont get more flexible. they have big price like the view. developers need to wake up.
@carolst you actually must be the sale rep there (ph) spending your day on forums to boost opinion of potential buyers. your building is nice but come one all floors are cheap china wood that all tenants have complained about and need to be fixed. kitchen cabinets and appliances are from ikea. price it right and you will make some real deals. new york developers are crazy and have been abusing the system for years maybe its time for them to pay the price.

So who's right here?
Carol says appliances are all viking except for the range which is a Jennair. Are you saying Carol is lying?

Mike77,
I just got off the phone with a prudential sales rep and confirmed what Carol said. Every kitchen appliances is a VIKING except for the range (oven) which is a Jennair. The sales rep mentioned that all units sold also have Bosch washer and dryer thrown in. I won't call these 'cheap'.
So Mike77, where did you get your info? It seems inaccurate. Maybe the renters are the one getting the cheap appliances???

This powerhouse that every talks about got to be the most confusing condo to gauge.
I just see another unit got sold recently in the 700s psf.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/179528-condo-50-09-2nd-street-long-island-city

So in one hand some of you are saying prices are being sold in the low to mid 500s and on the other hand, sales + closing are coming in at the 600-700s. I'm tempted just to go over there and have a look myself and see what this bickering is all about.

InFamous -
it was marked as unavailable at this price. we dont know what it sold for until it shows up on acris.

You're right, sorry for the confusion.

Nick26,
Can you elaborate on the prices? I'm confused by what you are saying. You said these people/friends are living in the Powerhouse already. If that's the case, i assume they closed on their units. If it's close, why isn't it showing up in Acris?

"true, a couple of the units in the low 500s are on the 2nd floor. a unit in the mid-500s is on the 4th floor. everything i said is fact and confirmed with buyers. but if you look just at acris you miss the whole picture - what these buyers originally contracted for and what they ultimately paid (read: studio is now a 2BR!)."

Acris gives the complete picture, it just takes time to show up.

When I was in the PH, I definitely saw some non-Viking stoves. When I got home and read the brochure, it said "all stoves are Viking." I was confused and I asked the broker about it. She said that they'll swap the Viking stoves in. (I know this only adds to the discussion confusion.)

The 3rd amendment in the offering plans changed the stove from a viking to a jennair. Some units still got them, but beside that all appliances are still Viking. Hope that puts that rumor to rest.

InFamous, there is a unit on the 4th floor in the mid 500s psf and a unit on the 2nd floor in the low 500s psf - you can find both on ACRIS. As ericho75 said, ACRIS takes time to post the info so expect another unit in the low 500s psf to show up very soon.

There's no such thing as bad publicity. I welcome all 'speculation' and 'confusion'.

> watch out below: carolst is a broker.

Yes, and if any group is an expert on when the RE market moves up and down, its BROKERS!

The same bunch of idiots who said there WAS no decline are now experts on what it ends.

Classic!

You're an idiot. It's not the job of the broker to tell you where the market is headed. Brokers are not the one that makes the decision for you to buy. NYC10022, you're as dumb as a doorknob.

I guess you've never told a client what they should price their unit at. Asking prices have nothing to do with the market, or supply and demand, or any of those economic issues.

Again, it goes to show how out of touch you are. It takes 2 parties (buyers & sellers) to dictate the direction of the market. You can set it as high as you want, it's not going to mean a thing. That's economics 101 and supply/demand.

It takes two to make a thing go right
It takes two to make it outta sight
Hit it!

I wanna rock right now
I'm Rob Base and I came to get down
I'm not internationally known
But I'm known to rock the microphone
Because I get stoopid, I mean outrageous
Stay away from me if you're contagious
'Cause I'm the winner, no, I'm not the loser
To be an M.C. is what I choose 'a
Ladies love me, girls adore me
I mean even the ones who never saw me
Like the way that I rhyme at a show
The reason why, man, I don't know
So let's go, 'cause

It takes two to make a thing go right
It takes two to make it outta sight
Hit it!

-Me thinkz the "entire" nation's preoccupation w/ RE and watching Vern kick ass on Trading Spaces in the last 10 yrs probably was not that "productive" in solidifying our manufacturing base in the US- -shrug- but WTF do I know? I just said NO to option ARMs, and NO to my realtwhore who kept calling to "go over the top" , NO to ridiculous Rent/buy ratios, and even NO to my wife whom I would've done anything for... now I gotz HAND... much HAND

Unit 1006 shows it just went into contract at $685k, high floor, south view, $600 per sq foot. 30% lower than from earlier asking price. What does that say about the low floor units? Those who said $500-550 for low floor units sound about right.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/183910-condo-50-09-2nd-street-long-island-city

That looks like an awkward layout.

"That looks like an awkward layout."

The layout didn't seem to bother the person who paid $1.1M or $972 per sq foot for #806 a few months ago. 806 is two floors down with some extra outdoor space. Is the extra outdoor space worth $415k? You be the judge.

Everything starts looking "awkward" when RE is out of favor.

interesting development. if you preserve the relative value difference between units, a $600 psf comp on the 10th floor for a unit with somewhat of a view (for now) should value the lower floor units at $500 psf or below. the guys who paid in the low to mid 500s are already at risk of being underwater on their mortgages.

This means anyone who paid more than $700psf for a high floor unit or $600 for a low floor unit is probably underwater. They won't be able to refinance their mortgage or sell their units. This will lead to short sales in this building in the near future.

Do you know they paid $1.1M? The terrace looks pretty big. Other things being equal, it should go for more than the apartment two floors above. Obviously not $415k, the market downturn affected prices.

How would you set up your furniture in the living room?

To LICComment: yup, 806 closed at $1.1M. Hate to be that guy/gal.

According to Streeteasy:
09/13/2008Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Prudential Elliman at $1,100,000.
01/14/2009Listing sold.
01/14/2009Sale recorded for $1,100,000.

The outdoor space for 806 is a bit smaller than 600sqft. So at half outdoor size times indoor price = $180k. This means purchaser of 806 is down some $235k and probably already under water on their mortgage.

may I?

okay FWIW... we are getting pretty close to studios in NYC for $300K in decent areas.... so if you waited 6 months... net net could've had the V8, I mean a "crash" pad in NYC when you've had one too many Gin and Tonics...

2nd FL to 4th FL Apartments have 10+ Foot ceiling, dollar for dollar I would think some of these units would retain value better over time. 600 PSF sounds like the going rate.

Apt 404 list in contact as of 6/10/09. $644 PSF.

404 @ $644 is ASKING price. This is not the final transaction price. The asking price is just a place holder these days. It has absolutely no meaning. Look at the recent trend, transction price is often 20%+ lower than the initial asking price. Unit 1109 had asking price of $1.3M. It closed at $981K. 25% lower than initial ask. 404 probably went to contract in the low to mid $700k given the pricing in the high floor units.

having a 10+ foot ceiling doesn't compensate for being on a lower floor where your view is going to be either: (a) some sort of industrial building across the street, (b) an empty lot that will soon house a parking garage (supposedly), or (c) another empty lot that is a parking lot that will some day be a residential building (supposedly). stop talking nonsense and get real.

Nick26, not everyone is a fool like you who stares out of the window 18 hrs a day.

i rest my case

"For Tennisport -- it's game, set, match. After 33 years in Hunters Point, Queens, the center that has hosted celebs and tennis stars will be shutting its doors July 31 as the city begins work on a massive housing complex overlooking the East River."

"Mayor Bloomberg has proposed building 5,000 units of middle-income housing and a school for the 24-acre site. City officials said they would begin work preparing the land, which has little infrastructure, by the end of the year."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06192009/news/regionalnews/queens/tennis_love_lost_175053.htm

for those keeping count, powerhouse's

south exposure = some sort of industrial building across the street
north exposure = empty lot that is a parking lot that will some day be a residential building
east exposure = an empty lot that will soon house a parking garage
west exposure = ginormous development that will likely block any NYC view, even for high floors

@infamous renters get cheap applicance, buyers that pays high price was told 1 mil and up get viking if not then you get same as renters. people already there got viking no matter what. they dont provide viking on contract they will tell you viking or similar which means you get similar. they cutting their cost.

about unit 1006 south view at 600 per sf it then shows where price should be. south view is the most expensive according to them (ph) so if high floor you get 600 then you should pay around the 500-550 for lower floor and no south view.

also keep in mind a new zoning rule will affect the south view as now if building comes up in the future they can be as high or higher than the ph. so in other words if you care about view then any side of the ph will have no view at all. the tennis court is done and all kind of income will be moving in, mainly low and middle which also will affect the price of your unit in the future.

i like the building, i just dont like the price. i like the view as well but they have crazy price but a guarantee view. not sure a guarantee view in this market should cost 900-1000 per sf.

fyi some apartments sold for 520 per sf and some at very high, it is all about buyer and seller negotiation and time, but as far as i heard from my friend that tried to make a deal, the ph believes that the price now should be no less than 600 per sf because the economy and the market is doing super well !?!? go figure where they got the info lol

recession or down market not going lower is one thing but picking up is another one and thats where we are, the time and effort to get back will take a while (few years). well thats my point of view.

"interesting development. if you preserve the relative value difference between units, a $600 psf comp on the 10th floor for a unit with somewhat of a view (for now) should value the lower floor units at $500 psf or below. the guys who paid in the low to mid 500s are already at risk of being underwater on their mortgages. "

Seems like we're well on our way to the predicted $300-400 psfs.

"@infamous renters get cheap applicance, buyers that pays high price was told 1 mil and up get viking if not then you get same as renters. people already there got viking no matter what. they dont provide viking on contract they will tell you viking or similar which means you get similar. they cutting their cost."

This is a complete lie and an attempt to miss lead readers. All units sold will have Vikings or have gotten vikings appliances except for the range. As of today, there hasn't been ONE unit sold (outside of rent units) that doesn't have Vikings for all appliances and Jenair for range. The 'substitute' appliances was a clause in the contracts for legal purposes. ALL written contracts are documented this way. If you are a serious buyer, you can call them and ask about it: 718-472-5009.
This guy has continued to lie on these boards and make untrue claims. Don't listen to him.

"about unit 1006 south view at 600 per sf it then shows where price should be. south view is the most expensive according to them (ph) so if high floor you get 600 then you should pay around the 500-550 for lower floor and no south view."

Not true. Prices in the North are going higher than the south. I was just over there this weekend.

"fyi some apartments sold for 520 per sf and some at very high,"
Another outright lie. Show me the apartments that went for 520 sf??? Yes, APARTMENTS...with a big S.

So, ericho is a broken in LIC?

No wonder he's so uptight.

sorry, broker. Freudian slip.

Who's uptight?
Jez...

I'm merely correctly lies.

The lowest comps so far in this building are units 214 and 215, sold for $515 psf and $533 psf, respectively. They are also two of the last few units to close in this building. The higher comp was an existing contract that was a a renegotiated deal, and therefore not a pure comp since the buyer already had a deposit out when the price was struck. Most of the rest of the 27% that have closed (according to ACRIS, which of course is delayed by a few weeks) so far were contracts that were entered into in 2007 and 2008 (prior to Lehman collapse) and are also not good comps. The sales people claim to have 50% of the building sold or in contract, so that means up to 40 contracts have been signed and not closed.

Considering this situation, and with all indications of this slide continuing, $300-400 psf in LIC is a reasonable expectation. Keep your eyes on the new comps that will slowly trickly in on ACRIS...

and then adding a few of your own...

"building are units 214 and 215, sold for $515 psf and $533 psf"

This is a joke right? You took 2 1-bedroom units on the 2nd floor which will face the garage as your measurement for future prices to continue to slide into the 300-400? What about all the other units that have closed and gone into contract since February 2009 in the high 500s, 600s & 700s???

Sorry, can't help myself.

Nick26, your thought process of why it will slide into the 300-400 psf is SO ridiculous that it's like saying..."i ran into w67thstreet who's a midget living in Manhattan, and then telling everyone back home in LIC that people in Manhattan will eventually turn into a midget soon".

Yes, it's that outlandish.

No ericho75, I am not taking a 2nd floor per square foot value and comparing that to a 10th floor per square foot value. I am using those as comps because they are two of the most recent and most relevant given when they actually contracted (both in 2009). Given the lack of reliable data, I cannot comment on units that went into contract but only those that closed.

I have argued previously that even these 2nd floor units should be priced below $500 psf given that a south facing unit on the 10th floor was offered up at $600 psf (and let's see what the actual sales price shows up as when it closes). The logic behind that is that those units were originally priced 20% below 10th floor south facing units and, notwithstanding market dislocation, the relative value differential should be preserved over time.

Therefore, if you apply another 25% drop to current prices (representing a ~45% cumulative drop from peak), that gets you to about $375 psf, which will be the low end of the range for this building (i.e. less desirable 2nd fl units). Using the same logic, upper floor south facing units should drop to $450 psf at best.

By the way, I have not even considered how potential short sales in the near future might further destroy value. If you're a prudent buyer, you will certainly figure this into the equation. That is how a $300-400 psf value range (lower floors at low end of range and upper floors at high end) is justifiable.

That's of course if you believe the argument that we are dropping another 25%. Some experts have it at 40%...

whether its 400 or 700 psf, LIC is still a weak place to live.

nice marco, nice

Nick26,

"I am using those as comps because they are two of the most recent and most relevant given when they actually contracted (both in 2009)."

Again, more lies and propaganda. The last unit closed and contracted in 2009 on ACRIS (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_val_sales.shtml) is:

1109 at 981,000 which is 665 psf.

Before you go on...and before you make another post.
Give the sales office a call. They sold another 4-5 units over the past 3 weeks. They're still averaging 2 units per week. You won't have prices at 300-400 psf if units are still moving.

"whether its 400 or 700 psf, LIC is still a weak place to live. "

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I'm no longer going to debate this. If i can't force AR to eat veggies instead of KFC...no one can.

You also can't compare unit 1109 to the others because it has a 239 sf terrace. If you assume that outdoor space is worth half of indoor space (on a psf basis) then unit 1109's interior space basically went for about $600 psf also. Unit 1106 also priced over 30% below the seller's original ask for it.

The sales office wouldn't tell you all that.

Okie..we'll know in a few months what the numbers look like.
I can guarantee you that the direction of prices are not trending down.

> I can guarantee you that the direction of prices are not trending down.

Someone has said that before each market report showing prices going down.

ericho is the new spunky!

@ericho75 you are probably a broker or someone that bought a place there. to be more direct with you lets put it this way i know 6+ people in the ph, some did not get the appliances viking and had to fight big time to get it and changed. the broker there said as well from now on (few weeks or months ago) viking is for unit sold over 1 mil.

LIAR....!? ericho75 get a life or get a job

I am not here to point the bad only, i am telling you what the reality is. i live next door and i am a member of the tennis court right in front. Our tennis courts are closing next month i have the letter in my hand. supposedly the city start building it is part of Obama stimulus package. huge nice complex. please give me a break and stop arguing a price per sf that you wish it would be right now. lic is a nice place to be, i live here but developers have it wrong thats why your building and some others are so dead empty or rented. it is not the price you are trying to put up on this forum that will make a difference but the powerhouse price are going down. unless some people are willing to buy high price for no view at all and some financial issues that could arise in the future (i do not hope so) plus this side of lic is the less desirable. soon no view even south will be possible from the powerhouse. unless the city delay the work they officially said to the tennis court that work will start next day (after we close).

yes move to lic, i support this but i dont support brokers or developer trying to take advantages of people.

i hope this is clear now to you.

Its called hunters point south.

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/city-takes-control-of-hunters-point-south-land-empire-state-development-port-authority

We have been looking to buy in LIC as renters for sometime. Its a fantastic neighborhood, but we are just not rich. Powerhouse thought they were gods gift to creation and had the keys to shangrila (not speaking of the residents, whom I've never met). Its a fuglier building than lhaus and now 10-20 years of construction afterwards a lovely view into someone else's apartment.

Mike77,

I was over at the powerhouse 2 weekends ago and this was one of the main issues i raised with them and they confirmed exactly what many have said including ericho75. All appliances are viking except for the range. I believe your friends are not telling you the whole story. This is also what the salesperson said, the range is the only appliance that is not a viking (also confirmed it with the offering plan). I believe your friends are fighting for the range being a Viking.

Also, all show room models have Viking appliances with a Jenair Range. Hope this helps.

it is senseless to argue this point. if you want viking, just ask for viking and you'll have it. they won't lose a sale over the the appliances.

Alrighty. Here is my RANT... get yourself a f'n clue and lowball a unit with the intention of taking $10K of your "lowball" price and calling Home Depot or whatever and having them DELIVER a brand new spanking VIKINGS/HIKING/SPINKING OVEN/BROILER or a oven made into a shape of a PENIS and a REFRIGERATOR in the SHAPE OF a VAGINA delivered to your new "HOME".

f'n christ... ever hear of a "price" adjustment? It's like a yacht buyer complaining cause the sail is old, just f'n make a mental adjustment and pay PRICE OF BOAT - PRICE OF NEW SAILS. COMPRENDO?

viking = depreciating asset

we're gonna make a fortune---appliances in the shape of sex organs. this could be really big!

my point was not about viking or not, as a decision to buy or not. it is just appliances, the main problem is price per sf. i was just answering some questions/concerns.

they probably fixed that by now, good for buyers but it used to be full viking not just the fridge or whatever, FULL. then now i guess its half.

as well as said above it is just appliances and yes it can be fixed or a price adjustment can be made,
regardless the price of the appliances is not that much compare to the crazy price the powerhouse is asking for their units based on per sf.

price should be lower to my point of view, there is no view at all, low quality kitchen cabinets with i guess now Viking fridge guarantee :)(wow) no covered parking but an outside temporary parking, all around the ph it is a mess big ugly mess from south east north and west, soon be walls all around and you get a power jail. seems the situation will be the same for the next 2 years.

i live next door, i like the powerhouse but not at this price. knowing what is coming around and all the problems i have seen there, if i would buy, i would only buy at 500 to 550 per sf not higher.

buyers be aware of the location and the projects coming, it will affect your investment and your views. original building especially if you don't care about the view, make sure to pay the right price considering all those factors.

@67 i understand but i have seen people trying to do so and the power house thinks they are the power and are trying to not take such offers. they want to look good like if we were 3 years back. they want to give potential buyers a feeling of high class etc... thats one of the reasons why the building is empty like the View (building), both buildings played tough in a very tough economy and now they are in trouble. arrogance do not pay, now they are paying the price. well done brokers lol

Mike77,
There is nothing wrong with wanting lower prices, but you've been posting 'misleading' information about it which irks some people here...myself included. I actually paid a visit to the Powerhouse 2 weekends ago and almost everything you've posted have been incorrect.

PH are holding their prices at 600 now and why shouldn't they? They've sold about 2 units a week over the past 3 months!!!

@infamous it is a forum with people that believes black and some white. saying i post misleading information is wrong to say.

if i am wrong then you are saying that the official project of the tennis court is not real, get a life it is real and official, i am a member of the tennis court.
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/city-takes-control-of-hunters-point-south-land-empire-state-development-port-authority

you are then saying the kitchen is great quality, check yourself it is like an ikea made kitchen. most piece are cheap wood and then they glue design on it.
maybe that works for you but not for me, so it is not about right or wrong here but preferences.

viking (tired of this) but anyhow if they provide you all the appliances viking then you are very lucky or they changed what was a month ago. but it was not as such. on the contract it says viking or similar then who is misleading people here!? if you guarantee viking no need to stipulate SIMILAR!?!?!?

you are then saying that the views will be for ever, wrong infamous, the view is gone forget about the view. buy for the unit not the view, it is gone, gone baby gone...

Regarding the price, that is right they claim 600 per sf, i think it is the only thing you have right and i have never said it is not 600 per sf, i am saying the price they want is too high. 500 to 550 in this market, with projects coming etc... is more reasonable to my point of view. this means misleading info to you!?!?

who is getting irks here? i dont really get why facts would make anyone IRKSSS. Facts are from myself, my neighbor, the actual view i have of the place, and conversation with people there and about 6 people that bought already. i think i have good facts. feel free to clarify what is actually right or wrong then? not your point of view as it seems you dont have any opinion about the ph. if you ar enot a broker then buy the unit at 600 per sf and enjoy the ph. i will be glad to correct myself if you can prove me wrong. but please no need to argue about viking cause honestly that is not the point.

so please show me and all the other people that the view will always be there, that the tennis court is not going, that there is no rental in the building, that there is no rental with option to buy, that so many units are sold, the spa is done, the parking is done or coming, no building coming in the back or on the north side, the south view is guarantee (with the city official project on the south side), the kitchen cabinets are very high quality, the floor is not cheap and so many current residents had to change/fix it........so on so forth

be my guest and make a point thanks

hey mike77--i see nothing misleading about your post--this zone will remain a construction site for years--after which the ph will be walled in with no views--as in power jail

as to the "hold" at 600 psf and the twice weekly sales, remain calm til you see the closing prices (on those that close)

i think 500-550 is a layup, and likely happening right now (we'll see, if and when things close)--but i'd still be careful given numerous other factors

In Famous--you have some sort of agenda--nothing incorrect re mike77's post--and you provide no specifics that refute mike's very astute observations

"In Famous--you have some sort of agenda--nothing incorrect re mike77's post--and you provide no specifics that refute mike's very astute observations "

I have.
1) He stated that all units will NOT have Viking appliances.
Wrong. I can prove it.
2) He says there are projects going up.
Wrong. A certain percentage of it is used for MIDDLE INCOME HOUSING. The remaining amount are sold at market rate. So, Mike's attempt to say they're projects are wrong.
3) Read my other post. I was there 2 weekends ago and said the cabinets are not up to par. I never said the cabinets were great. So again, Mike is painting a comment i never made.
4) Mike77 said all the views are gone. Wrong again.
A portion of the views from the South East will always be there. I was in one of the model units and i can see the foundry condo in front of it. Unless the Foundry condo is being torn down soon, those views are protected.
5) "so please show me and all the other people that the view will always be there, that the tennis court is not going, that there is no rental in the building, that there is no rental with option to buy, that so many units are sold, the spa is done, the parking is done or coming, no building coming in the back or on the north side, the south view is guarantee (with the city official project on the south side), the kitchen cabinets are very high quality, the floor is not cheap and so many current residents had to change/fix it........so on so forth"
I never said this. You got the wrong poster.
6) In regards to units sold. Just keep an eye on ACRIS and the numbers of units being closed. I already see about 4-5 units that went into contract on StreetEasy over the past month and they're all about 600-650 psf.

InFamous, 600-650psf is what they were offered at. everyone knows it's a minimum 10-20% discount from there (at least). i keep hearing the 2-3 units per week story but no activity on ACRIS to back it up...unless the powerhouse has some very convincing brokers that are able to defy the market and sell at these levels, the comps are going to come in way down, causing almost everyone in the building who financed ~80% to be underwater. this very fact will further depress values.

as for the finishes, i visited a couple of months ago and here are my thoughts
1) some very sloppy work in the units but i have seen similar slop in other buildings
2) the kitchens are awful and among the worst i have seen. i agree that the materials used look and feel very cheap. you have these humungous appliances and virtually no storage space. big negative.
3) the units overall are not as nice as compared to the common areas of the building (which are decent). but you have to be buying for the unit, not the lobby

for an average product in what has become an increasingly less attractive location, no way they are selling above market.

i cant comment on the quality of the finishes, but i have been told by a few buyers that the devleopers have been pretty good with the punchlists. the few units i saw had decent closet space, almost too much.. my biggest gripe is that the units felt like a giant cave... its probably a function of the higher ceilings, huge beams in the middle of the floor, and lack of light (the unit was north facing)... my opinion.

"A portion of the views from the South East will always be there. I was in one of the model units and i can see the foundry condo in front of it. Unless the Foundry condo is being torn down soon, those views are protected."

views of the foundry are protected?? seriously? i must have missed the part of the website that touted views of the low-rise condo across the street.

"Just keep an eye on ACRIS and the numbers of units being closed. I already see about 4-5 units that went into contract on StreetEasy over the past month and they're all about 600-650 psf."

what nick said. changes to the "in contract" listings are irrelevant. there are a million threads on this. acris may be a little late, but the last sale i see was recorded 3 months ago.

"acris may be a little late, but the last sale i see was recorded 3 months ago."

Wrong...

Acris rolling sales get updated at mid-month for the prior month. Closings for June will be reported next week. Here the closing was dated 5/14. Again, at least have your facts right...

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_val_sales.shtml

50-09 2 STREET, 321 859 $605,858 4/7/2009
50-09 2 STREET, 416 1,357 $735,890 4/21/2009
50-09 2 STREET, 406 1,118 $845,147 4/22/2009
50-09 2 STREET, 1109 1,473 $981,000 5/14/2009

"views of the foundry are protected?? seriously? i must have missed the part of the website that touted views of the low-rise condo across the street."

Good point...but infamous makes a point that the building will not be completely boxed in as Mike77 have pointed out.

mjay61, it's a known fact that southern exposure have better lights than the north. If lights is important, then why would you buy a north facing units knowing full well that the developers will be putting up a building right in front it.

"changes to the "in contract" listings are irrelevant. there are a million threads on this."

I see about 4 units in streeteasy that went 'into contract' between 580-650 dollar psf in May & June.

'I see about 4 units in streeteasy that went 'into contract' between 580-650 dollar psf in May & June."

The dollar amount, or even the very fact that it is in contract is irrelevant and we have discussed ad nauseum why it is irrelevant. I don't know why you continue to cling on this data point.

"Acris rolling sales get updated at mid-month for the prior month. Closings for June will be reported next week"

Oh really? Have you seen the dates on Streeteasy's 'Recently Recorded Sales' section?

Regardless, Infamous asserts PH has sold 24 units in three months, whereas ACRIS is showing 1.

First off...acknowledge you were wrong about NO reported sales in Acris over the past 3 months.
It was blatantly wrong.

In regards to sales over the past few weeks, we'll know in September, November and December.

5 recorded sales in the last three months to be precise.

Here's a summary of those 5 sales:
- #215 was a renegotiated deal from an existing contract
- #1109 seems like a market deal
- #406 went into contract in March 2008
- #416 I have no insight on
- #321 entered contract in November 2007

That means in the last three months, there have been only 2 or 3 real "market" deals. Ericho's claim is that ~20-25 units are about to close in the next three months. Those to me will be the comps to look for, but the really interesting ones will be the comps that come out in Q4 reflecting sales from the slow summer season.

No need to buy until Q1 2010 unless rates start to go up dramatically.

condos don't take months to close.

the sales data takes some time to show up on acris and streeteasy. at best case...1-2 weeks. i know a few in the building have taken 2-3 months to show up in the public records.

Look at all the units that went into contract in late 2007 but seven months after the building started closing have still not closed. 303, 402, 404, 503 to name a few. You'll find a lot of these "in contract" buyers have already walked away from their contracts.

Conspiracy theory... could the developer and salesteam try to delay hard data as long as possible so that more units can be "banked" before the flurry of cut prices can enter the mkt?