Powerhouse Condo Not Selling Well!! Financial Difficulties Arise

Ericho75: you must be one of those owners sitting on 30% 'paper' loss. Your comments added nothing to LG's post. It comes across as grasping for straws, trying to spin and change the topic.

Key takeaway from LG's posts are:
1) Prices are down 30% from 2007 prices.
2) A large percentage of the building are now rentals
3) There are renters and owners complaining about noise and thin walls
4) The land between PH and water are slated for high rise development
5) Some owners are get the cheaper Jenn Air Range
6) The concierge direct system is still missing 7 months after the building started closing.

And what value do you bring?

I'm not a PH defender, and I have been resisting entering this thread again, but after the whole discussion of 20 Pine vs PH, or FiDi vs. LIC, I can't help myself. People really need to understand that not everyone who lives in LIC would rather live in Manhattan but cannot afford it. It might be the case for some, but certainly not all. Living in Fidi would probably more than double our household's commute times. And that place is a complete desert at night in my experience, much more so than Hunter's Point. But I digress. Just count me as one (and there are others) who has no interest in moving from LIC to Manhattan, and plans to rent in LIC for a 1-2 years (until I know that I'm staying in the NY area long-term) and then buy.

As far as PH, I don't like the layouts, the windows (at least in the lower part of the building) are too small, the kitchens are a bit of a joke for anyone who actually cooks, and the idea of hearing your neighbors constantly would be enough to keep me away.

No more Tennis Court next Friday. Construction will start there on August 3, 2009. People who signed the contract and current unit owners are ready to see developer and onsite sales manager in court.

great post from lg and now nice summary--and great if certain buyers got adjustments--that'll bring lawsuits from those who didnt if the place goes bankrupt--must be serious cashflow issues with dev'per--unless he's got other stuff going well that can carry this mess--best case is they slowly sell out leading downward price spiral--god help buyers who get undercut as they try to execute secondary sales--textbook new development to avoid--short of bankruptcy this worst case is in place

Key takeaway from LG's posts are:
1) Prices are down 30% from 2007 prices.
2) A large percentage of the building are now rentals
3) There are renters and owners complaining about noise and thin walls
4) The land between PH and water are slated for high rise development
5) Some owners are get the cheaper Jenn Air Range
6) The concierge direct system is still missing 7 months after the building started closing.

Over the past 3-4 months, prices haven't spiraled down? Just check the psf sold.
And why are you spreading potential bankruptcy again. Stop blowing smoke out of your ass.

You sound retarded Ubottom.

I was reading this thread earlier today and saw this comment by Mike77 5 months ago..

"Wells Fargo will probably go under the new rule and then the powerhouse in long island city will be left alone with buyers not being able to get finance and rates higher it will be harder. again the developer should realize all that and sale units now at a reasonable price. but again like some other buildings they believe real esate will pick back up soon!? lol if 5-10 years is soon they yes they are right. it is going to be hard."

Oh, was he wrong. Wells Fargo continues to be one of the prefer lenders in the building. Citibank was also recently added and closed a unit recently. One by one, these speculations are getting shot down. Of cause the biggest one was the title of this thread "Powerhouse Condo Not Selling Well!! Financial Difficulties Arise" posted 11 months ago.

Ericho75: All the bearish people in this thread predicted lower prices. Considering prices in this building is down 30% from their 2008 asking price while rest of the city isn't down nearly as much shows the bearish people made great predictions!

Just to connect the dots on price trends. South facing, high floor, two bedroom unit #1006 just closed for $685,000, $600psf and down 30% from their initial asking price.

"down 30% from their initial asking price."

And when did 1006 close?
Wait! Aren't prices suppose to be in the low 500s as many of you have stated?
Oh, the HORROR!

#503 just closed for $830,000, west facing, 1BR/2BA w/HO...$876/sf.

Does anyone know how this happened?

premium for 5 year construction site view

#503 went into contract in late 2007 when the building first hit the market.

Ericho75: $600psf for #1006 is not good news for current owners as you seem to imply. It means anyone who went into contract before this year is down 30% on their purchase. If they need to move for any reason, it becomes a distressed sale.

Also you are assuming $600psf is the low which it certainly won't be with more than 100 unit still unsold and at least 40 rentals in the building. The Sponsor will eventually sell the rental inventory of at least 40 units. Previously rented out units always sell below market prices due to higher than normal wear and tear from renters. This fact alone will ensure prices will remain depressed in the building for a long time to come.

1006 has a strange layout. I can see that being a problem to sell.

"Also you are assuming $600psf is the low which it certainly won't be with more than 100 unit still
unsold and at least 40 rentals in the building."

You're assuming prices will continue to move South. What if the last 5-10 units sold over the past 2 months average about 620-640 psf? Let's wait another 2-3 months when these units show up in Acris.

There's a total of 3 units that sold below 550 psf out of the 60 closed. These 3 units are all in the lower floors (2 in the 2nd) with the potential of their windows parking up against the East Building by next year.

"#503 went into contract in late 2007 when the building first hit the market."

But the key is, they closed in July 2009 at $800+ psf.

LICComment,

I know you're not a big fan of the layouts in this building, but if you have to choose, which is your favorite one?

None of these summaries gets to the heart of the problem. I dare say most any building that was not finished before the bottom fell out of the market is going to face major signs of distress. This isn't unique to the Powerhouse, but this building is one of the best examples and evidence of "going cheap" are in abundance - cheap hollow doors, paper thin walls, all sorts of stuff unfinished and, worse, what is done is done as cheaply as possible. This is a fact. If anybody thinks that this project is just as good as it would have been if it came one line two years earlier, you are just dreaming. Just look around. How many workmen are in the building? Most days none. Some days a tiny handfull. Why is work on the parking lot utterly stagnated with not a damn thing happening for months. Because everything is just fine with the project? Because they are selling units like hotcakes at promo prices?Because they are waiting for the ideal constuction season of Winter? Get real. The crappy outdoor lot around the corner at excessive prices in place of the promised indoor lot is the PH paradigm, that has been and will be repeated over and over with a host of issues.

"cheap hollow doors, paper thin walls, all sorts of stuff unfinished and, worse, what is done is done as cheaply as possible. This is a fact."

Prove it? You live there?
Looks like the same person with a different alias. Sorry brother, but prices aren't coming down to the 400 psf....

Your door is hollow metal door and you are a liar to suggest otherwise. The yahoo resident chatgroup for the building is repleat with sound complaints. Interesting that you avoid the fundemental point that I am stressing. Why the utter standstill on parking construction? Because everything is wonderful? And yes I do live there. This building is a developer salvage operation as it of necessity bust be giving its construction/market timing. Your one-man hyperventalating deception will not change that.

ericho - from just randomly eyeballing some floorplans, for 2-bedrooms the 204-504 line looks good. If you like the circular living rooms, 905-1005 looks good.

"hollow metal door"
LOL..you want a full METAL DOOR?

"yahoo resident chatgroup for the building is repleat with sound complaints"
I'm on it....i see a few out of how many owners?

>"yahoo resident chatgroup for the building is repleat with sound complaints"
>I'm on it....i see a few out of how many owners?

ericho75, the sham just never ends with you. there are only 23 registered users on the owner yahoo site. "a few" complains is a very high percentage.

Out of how many participants on the BOARD? Most resident don't participate at all as you well know. You seem to be studiously avoiding everything that I stick your lying nose in - your hollow metal door, your nonexistant indoor parking lot with no progress for at least 4 months. No workmen at all most day. No ETA on intercoms ... The overall fact that this is a distressed situation plain as day. Good plan gone cheap in a financial salvage operation.

"The housing project issue is not just the totally spoiled view, although the construction that will block the view is being started first. It's also years of construction surrounding you and, at the end, the high-cost Powerhouse is surrounded by high-density projects. That is not ideal under any circumstances and it only adds insult to injury that the thousands of people in public assisted housing will have better views and probably better constructed buildings. It's like paying $300 bucks for Mets tickets and getting nosebleed seats while someone paying $30 bucks sits on the third base line."

Incidentally, I've never seen a responce to this point.

Did the building ever say it would have indoor parking?

LGeorge & Nivlac,
Probably the same person, but there are 2 yahoo powerhouse groups.

There's 47 on this one..
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/powerhouselic/members

Who's the sham now?

"The overall fact that this is a distressed situation plain as day."

Another lie. Building is in no way in any distressed. Prove it.

Everyone i have spoken to absolutely loves the place.

@ericho75
about wellsfargo and yes wellsfargo did mention this, and i my post says that it is possible if they are force to. the fact is that now wells fargo cannot accommodate any more developer unless they are 70% sold. PH is part of one place they did among many others and they are still on it. which is good for the ph.

you keep talking and talking but beside saying everyone is a liar you dont say much.
-the view is gone, tennis court are done. fact
-the walls, yes you can hear conversation just at the elevator for example. fact
-no intercom. fact
-parking garage issue. fact
-not everyone got viking as a buyer. fact
-price is lower. fact but this is normal in this economy and should be lower to my point of view
-the ph is not what was promised to people
-kitchen cabinet are really cheap
-building is very original. fact
etc........

You keep going around denying all facts, you only speculate on time, "like who knows when construction will start 10 years!? etc..." you just sound like the broker or sales team when they speak to potential buyers to not scare them away. dont be a hater be a lover and help potential buyers understand the real facts so they know what to expect in the near future (or maybe 5 years as wish) and what they should pay for.

"Incidentally, I've never seen a responce to this point."

Why does anyone need to? Everyone that bought a unit there knows full well there are new developments going up in the area. It's the misinformed that are getting the shocker (yourself included).

More than 70% of all the 5SL toll brother units don't have a view. Same with the foundry, Lhaus, hunter's point condos/view, etc. etc. 99% of all apartment units in Manhattan also don't have a view.
Currently, no one is paying a premium for the view in Powerhouse right now. What is your point?

Mike77,
The new guidelines were set 4 months ago. Wells Fargo continues to lend today and will continue to lend until December of 2009. I got confirmation from my Wells Fargo mortgage rep. Take a guess why the HARD date is set at December 2009? You made a comment about something you don't even know.

-the view is gone, tennis court are done. fact
* Are all the views gone? And do you know for sure when it will be gone?

-the walls, yes you can hear conversation just at the elevator for example. fact
* Prove it?

-no intercom. fact
* Yes, it's not there. But have you asked why? Because the system is changing. Units will have an Apple itouch instead. Yes, they're changing it to a mobile unit.

-parking garage issue. fact
* How so? What do you call the area where all those cars are parked in the North side of the building?

-not everyone got viking as a buyer. fact
* Are you stupid or plain dumb? This have been argued to death. Conclusion, you are a moron.

-price is lower. fact but this is normal in this economy and should be lower to my point of view
* Lower from what levels? Tell us something we don't know.

-the ph is not what was promised to people
* Promised???? Promised what? A happy ending? NO.

-kitchen cabinet are really cheap
* Compare to?

-building is very original. fact
* It is original, that is a fact. There's no units that look anything like this...thank you.

Please take your contract dispute with your lawyer and not to a public forum.

Thank You!

ericho75, you know very well I was referring to the Owners yahoo group. You always try to advance your point with some irrelevant fact and hope to muddy the water so that others forget the original point. Most people are not as gullible as you think. Your arguments and posts are extremely deceitful.

Still ignoring your hollow metal door, parking lot and other work stymied etc. etc. etc. ... I guess the parking lot is just waiting for that more ideal wintertime construction, right? If the freaking intercoms are too much for the devloper to afford, what does this say to you?

As for the view, check out the PH website and tell me the views are not (falely) stressed all over the site.

LGeorge,
There are 2 groups. Fact.
Who's trying to advance the point here? Both groups (in contract & owner) are active. Not everyone that is in the in-contract group are registered in the owner group. Your point? So, the other group should be ignored because YOU say so? You don't even live there.
The point is, majority of the people don't have issues with the sound in the building. You're taking the views of a few people and projecting it like it's a major issue.

"hollow metal door, parking lot and other work stymied"

There's a parking lot.
Can you tell me what type of door 5SL, The View, Hunter's Point Condo, LHaus and Foundry use? It's the same type of doors use in almost 99% of all developments. Your point?

Tell me what other work is stymied? Building started closing in January of 2009.

ericho75,
You should just ignore these people. It's probably the same person.

ericho75 you are probably part of the team to be here non stop trying to say that everything is perfect at the powerhouse. i understand thats your job and in some way seems to be fun, coffee, forum, coffee, forum, one client coming lets get a good pitch, the view is great, city has no money so coming plan would not be here for next 10 years, blabla, coffee, forum....

plus mentioning that i were a potential buyer and i would like to fight it!?!? hmm something interesting i guess seems it is happening a lot at the powerhouse otherwise you wont be talking about that. DISPUTE....Powerhouse... Dispute.... sounds about right to me when i see this forum.

It is not the same. There are soundproof doors and they are common. Checck out those other projects. They may look the same but that is where the comparison ends. PH's are cheaper and hollow. PH doesn't have the them. it has cheaper inferior doors that provide zero sound insulation. Where's the INDOOR parking or construcion for same, you liar.

The problem is not only what was unfinished but what was finished in a cheapo fashion.

You have nobody agreeing with you, that much is clear.

Didn't he called you out Mike77?
You made a comment about Wells Fargo stopping the lending after the guideline changed a few months back.
You were wrong. I'm sure you are going to be wrong on A LOT of other things.

"You have nobody agreeing with you, that much is clear."

I was there. I agree with him. The door was a non issue when i was there.

"when i was there"

Why are you here Mike77?
At least he's got a vested interest because he owns a unit there.

Educate us non owners. Why are you here? And how do you know so much negative information?
What is your interest in bashing the building? Why just the Powerhouse?

Nivlac, why not be clear. Do you own a unit? Do you rent?
This thread is so tiring. It's the same argument day in and day out but yet units are being sold on a weekly basis. If there are so many negatives, WHO THE FUCK IS BUYING?!?!?!?!?!?

@InFamous (maybe part of the team, like ericho75 s secretary:)
I said it is very possible that wellsfargo will end up not being able to give up loans to building below 70% sold and it is happening they dont do that anymore. it is a law that was coming at that time. i am glad that you know they still kept the agreement they had with the ph which is good for the ph. not sure why this is relevant on the ph actual lies and issues. wellsfargo do not give loans if building are not 70 % sold go and check if you dont believe.

Seems you are trying hard as a team to take any comments that do not help boost price at the ph and say i was wrong? means you simply trying really hard to put me aside from the forum so all the facts that are facts will not be taken into consideration and be read by the PUBLIC because you are afraid of them (facts).

I dont care even if you sell all your units at 700 per sf, you will always find some buyers but it will take some time thats why you had no choice to rent and rent so many apartments so it can help the developer budget in this tough economy. which is respectable in some ways. in a year or 2 kick out the renters and try to sell the units so hopefully the ph will feel like a CONDO.

About the noise just reading that 2 people are saying that they dont hear any pb then i do know you are not saying the true because i go there often to visit friends and man it is amazing how i can hear people talking while walking on walk way, yes the doors are closed.

I do hope for owners at the ph that the construction will not start in august otherwise that will be painful.

same person!? you have to be ericho75 colleague, got to be, so i guess when one is in a coffee break the other one is smoking outside lol cool job i have to say. oh and now you feel i called a friend to post something about the door or whatever, like you guys do!? sorry you are wrong again only the employees at the powerhouse work like that.

It's been a while since i last posted....but reading this thread really irritates me.
I've brought many clients to see the powerhouse over the past 6-12 months. The issues raised are completely fabricated or at least an attempt to make it worst than it really is. There are no such thing as 100% sound proof apartment units. Noise tolerance varies between individual. The important thing is, did the Powerhouse complied with NYC building laws in regards to walls and doors. It's been stated by ericho75 that they did and the powerhouse are double the standard.

Existing owners should be ashamed of themselves for allowing the same group of users to bash them in the open. I applaud ericho75 for defending his investment.

To the bashers, why do you spend so much time on bashing this building if you don't have any vested interest?

Mike77,
You come on these boards to bash your friends investment on a daily basis? What type of friend are you?
My guess... a fucking asshole.

"I said it is very possible that wellsfargo will end up not being able to give up loans to building below 70% sold and it is happening they dont do that anymore."

Here's your actual words....

"Wells Fargo will probably go under the new rule and then the powerhouse in long island city will be left alone with buyers not being able to get finance and rates higher it will be harder."

You clearly stated that Wells Fargo WILL PROBABLY GO UNDER THE NEW RULE AND THEN THE POWERHOUSE IN LONG ISLAND CITY WILL BE LEFT ALONE. Like many of your points, you try to confuse readers of the truth. Wells Fargo did not go under this new rule for the Powerhouse. That's a fact. You were wrong when you made your 'assumption' 4 months back.

infamous, ericho, carolst -

my suggestion is to just let this thread die... you are doing a disservice to yourself by responding. if number of posts are any indication, there is not a more maligned building on streeteasy

Mike77, your statements are just wrong. You really need to look into things and learn about what you are saying before you post comments. The new rules do not mean that Wells Fargo cannot issue loans on buildings less than 70% sold. If Wells Fargo or some other bank has preferred lender status, the new restrictions do not apply. You lack credibility because of all your mistakes.

ok CarolSt you are a power broker using an amazing language wow your clients must be very proud of you.
I tell facts that the same good FRIENDS talk about all the time and upset about. it is better to be told the true than being upset after end with a mortgage on your shoulder. CarolSt you are an amazing power broker with an exceptional language.

yes "PROBABLY" go under the rule and they did, now ph is safe so nothing wrong about this and i am glad you still have the wells fargo bank as a prefer lender to help your clients sign a honest contract. its good for you. i wish wells fargo would have save my tennis court and the doggy court but i guess not:(

Forum is about to find out what is being said in this case about the PH with the pros and the cons. then the reader can check and make his or her decision but with posters like you that have only one interest to sell to make few bucks people might be told only the pros.

Honesty is key to make a good sale, try that one day after you wash your tongue.
the ph has a lot of pros and cons, feel free to mention them even if you are a broker trying to make a buck people will read and check if what you like or dont like, works for them and vice versa.

also seat down relax breath and ask yourself why you have so much hate inside you, maybe that can help you too.

mjay61 is right. let it die. your defense is causing more harm to this building and it's apartment owners and brokers than i think you realize. would you buy in this building after reading carol st posts? would you buy in this building even if it was possible that the negatives were true?

look at the other famous street easy thread where an owner felt he had to defend and respond to every negative comment. he did himself and his neighbors a world of good by letting it die.

"my suggestion is to just let this thread die... you are doing a disservice to yourself by responding. if number of posts are any indication, there is not a more maligned building on streeteasy"

I have no investment or vested interest in this building.
Mike77, i agree with LICComment...your statements are wrong and facts are distorted.

Each time you people defending PH post, you bump this thread back up to the top. Why on earth would you do that? All your points are made, and your "I have to get the last word" strategy is pretty self-defeating. If you just stop posting, this thread will fade. The back and forth cannot work, because most people will think where there is enough smoke, there is likely at least some fire. Nothing you do on here can stop that. Think about it. What are you achieving other than keeping this sorry conversation going to your detriment?

"Each time you people defending PH post, you bump this thread back up to the top. Why on earth would you do that? "

I'm sorry, but it wasn't ericho75 that bump this thread.
Look at the posting dates. I can assure you, him leaving isn't going to stop this thread from being bumped by the bashers.

I'm a bit confused.

So the owners of this building will just stand there and let these bashers (people in litigation that is trying to get out of their contracts)? Is this what the owners want to do?

I'm a bystander in all this hostility. I'm just curious why there are so much negative posts about this building. One of the theories put forth by some of the owners in the building seem to be all the negativity are coming from contract holders who are in litigation with the developer. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. How does coming onto this board and publishing negative information about the building help their case? There are also other buildings with contract holders in litigation but they don't seem to have a problem with people publishing negative information about them. IMHO, there seems to be way too much smoke to have no fire at all at the PH.b

"The important thing is, did the Powerhouse complied with NYC building laws in regards to walls and doors"

My point precisely. Among the highest priced developments in LIC, trumpetted as top of the line, settled (at best) for the bare minimum permitted by the building code. In other words, the public housing project with the preemptive views will be build no worse. This is NOT the standard of high end residential buildings - it's the standard of the cheapest low end new rentals in town.

omg..just went to the ph site--all views are of manhattan skyline, which will soon be blocked--there's even a views tab which is all about the nyc skyline--wow jerkoffco--im just too "retarded" to understand why that isnt deceptive and to understand why the construction taking a long time is good for you---the huge lcd intercom all over the site looks really cool--wow could understand how to be a savvy re investor like you

"legendary views"

how the heck did this thread get so many posts in one day? once we dip into the $400s psf, it's going to be fun going back and looking at the dumb stuff ppl said. denial....

thank you streeteasy

I have been living in PH since March and have no issues with the place and happy to be there. I can tell you that all owners, renters I know from the building share similar views.
Observing some of you being passionate about the place in such a negative way, yet have no apparent or vested interest in this property is really sad. Is life really that misable? take care.

I'm in the PH and I've got a few beefs: poor sound insulation, no progress on the parking, etc. My particular issue is that one of the units next to me is apparantly being rented out quite frequently in one of these apt rental deals that people use instead of hotels. I'm not certain that is what is going on, but that is the best I can figure. It's only a studio but typically a good number of people pile in there, a different group all the time. That issue is probably somewhat unique to me - I'm in no position to know whether other units are used this way. The other general beefs are not ideal but, let's face it, the building is still very inexpensive relatively speaking and things like this should be expected when you are not paying top dollar.

And while many are quick to gripe about co-ops and their rules, this sort of thing would be stopped immediately in a well-run co-op.

"no progress on the parking"

I could had sworn i saw a parking lot on the north side when i was in the 10th floor model unit.

"I'm in the PH and I've got a few beefs: poor sound insulation, no progress on the parking, etc."

You're taking the beef to the wrong place. This board isn't going to offer you any help.
Why don't you express your displeasure with the other owners and the sponsor? There are many here that just want this thread to go away. Just look at the headline of this thread which was posted almost 1 year ago....

"I could had sworn i saw a parking lot on the north side when i was in the 10th floor model unit."

Perhaps you noticed too on the East side of the building a construction site that has been abandoned and remains only a fetid swamp. That is the site of the PROMISED indoor parking lot for which consturction has ceased months ago. That is the site that the sales staff today states is an active construction site for indoor parking. What other decent building in LIC has only outdoor parking? But I forgot, the standards are somehow different here.

infamy--if youre trying to quiet this thread youd best stop with the misprepresentation of crap like the parking situation--it only prompts those who know to correct the record--which in the case stands well-corrected by ivar--is there room to park in the swamp given the building will shortly experience a frenzied sellout?

Thanks. I'm glad the facts actually matter to someone, Ubottom.

I think a lot of spaces in the "temporary" outdoor lot are rented to outsiders, so i am not sure demand necessarily justifies an indoor lot.

PH is charging 270 dollars per parking spot. Beside current residents, there's no reason for anyone to park there. Citylight charges 235 per month for indoor parking...so does EastCoast.

The Powerhouse charges that? Who would pay $270 for parking in Long Island City at all, let alone for an unattended outdoor lot? What do residents do when it snows?! Ripoff.

The East Coast garage is $200/month, $250 if you want a reserved spot in the 2nd floor.

The Powerhouse LIC Paradigm: Substandard Product at a Premium Price.

You would have gotten the literary prize had you said "pisspoor" instead of "substandard"

no one should stop talking and bring issues to developer only that makes no sense seems some brokers (that need to wash their tongue with their commission) and rep of the powerhouse would rather have people quiet hmmm interesting. if all cons are wrong then people will see it so dont worry about it. do your homework before you buy so you know what you actually get. the power house offers many pros too in lic.

i accept for example that i was told that wells fargo wont back up loans to the powerhouse anymore after the new law and they did not. but they did for all new development so i was told partially right. plus the bank has now interest in the building as they have back up few loans there so they better keep up their promise and help the building to get filleddd of buyers, of course there is many renters now.

regardless, some facts as for the floor, the appliances, the intercom, the parking and more are already proven by tenants to be facts and reality. now let see if some units will remain a limited view after the project that should be starting next month on the tennis court land is done. but according to the city plan a high rise building should be right in front of the powerhouse. and yes i do hope that my friends will keep a view (limited) but doesnt seems it will go that way unless for the one in the south side, i dont believe construction south will start before a year hopefully it will only be the tennis court for now.

lets see, so erciho75 take note and when the project is done come back and have fun saying oh mike77 was so wrong we can still see the city by a specific angle when standing on that specific spot... have fun anyway you get paid for that so enjoy and have the polite power broker carolst join you on that one.

erciho75 the rest you cant argue about cause they are all facts from tenants, so enjoy the wells fargo story which is not even a negative point and enjoy the limited view between 2 buildings if this is what is going to happen.

dont think that paying more than anyone else in LIC for parking makes sense when the powerhouse parking is outside subject to weather. i agree with the above statements on parking.

Here is 5sl email i was just forwarded:
FOR ONE YEAR at 5SL
NO MORTGAGE PAYMENTS
NO COMMON CHARGES
NO REAL ESTATE TAXES
...PROTECTION PLAN...
...5SL WILL BUY DOWN YOUR RATE LOWER THAN YOU WILL FIND ANYWHERE...

seems it is tough time in LIC or competition time

between this and all the new construction in lic coming to the market soon (hundreds of new units), people should be able to negotiate some good price per sf. do your homework buy what fits you and dont forget to negotiate it is BUYER TIME. dont listen to uneducated brokers or rep from any of those buildings they work on commission you work for your future remember that.

Signs of housing project construction beginning. Tennis bubble taken down. Even outdoor courts closed.

Yep - looks like they are in a hurry to build.

Mike77, They are doing this to preserve the psf. So, U will need to sacrafice psf price if u want the incentives. 35% to 40% discounts in LIC is correct. But, u will still pay a premium if u want those incentives. LIC is a nice place to live. It is a risk but one worth taking. The city will make more parks and improvements. I m making an investment there. Cash is king. I'd rather buy low and sell high than have incentives for financing and credit. However, u need to be realistic as well. Otherwise, u will miss out. If u are shooting for 50% discounts.. u will wait forever. Time will tell though and no one really knows. Somebody has to roll the dice. Glad i m rolling now and not 2 yrs ago. I have tracked trends and read articles on pyschology of investing (stock market). Not sure if this applies to real estate as much as i m new to this game, but all trends pt to opportunity and value. Use simple rules in the stock market made me plenty of money. When the mailman starts giving stock advice, i get out. When the mailman starts talking about mail again. I m in. I havent heard any mailman talking about multiple properties they owe. In fact, i have only heard about forclosures and short selling. I'll buy that. Mailman is hypothetical for those of you who translate and read literal.
You can insert - milkman, doctor, icecream man, rocket sceintist, layman.

Buster, this logic I do not understand. If you are ever planning to "sell high," you want your tax basis to be as high as feasible, not as low as feasible. If you can get the cash value of a lower price in incentives, you are much better off. Your ultimate taxes are lower and the higher cash price means little when leveraged with a long-term mortgage. If someone gives you the choice of defraying what would otherwise be unavoidable cash expenditures woth $x or a purchase price discount of $x, the former is the better deal by far. In structuring real estate transactions, money is anything but fungible.

Your mailman theory is interesting in this context. Have you been in LIC long enough to talk to a good number of the old-timers in the neighborhood - the mailmen and plumbers, etc. who have lived there for years? The number 1 topic of conversation is, from their perspective, skyrocketing real estate values and how they or their cousin or their neighbor's son-in-law bought and are holding on to this or that piece or property waiting for yet more development. Have you noticed the scores of small commercial properties that are vacant with sale signs on them? This is not the same thing, of course, as yuppies coming in and buying 3 new condo units with the grand plan to rent 2 for a couple years before selling them to be made completely whole on the third. That is probably not happening much these days, but what is happening in LIC certainly contributes to huge long-term supply overhang.

As far as the city making more parks, etc, the only major thing that I know about is the huge high-density public housing project that is being built in front of the powerhouse and continuing south. I guess the plans call for a school and a courtyard or two in the middle of the projects, but it is rather hard to see how any of that is an overall plus for RE prices.

Buying in LIC is by every known theory of RE values less likely appreciate more than Manhattan. It is almost never the case that, after a big dip in RE prices, marginal neighborhoods appreciate more on a percentage basis than established neighborhoods. Indeed, these places are almost always slowest to recover. If you have studied investments you probably know that is it is a fallacy to assume that a penny stock that sells for 50cents is more likely to double in price than a blue chip stock that sells for $50 (ndeed that the opposite is true). The same holds in real estate but even to a far greater degree.

Any theory of a value proposition in LIC must simply be based on the fact that it is cheaper - period. It is silly to count on LIC appreciating more than most places. If you buy now and hold for 5 years, you may be able to make a little bit of money if you choose right and are lucky. Even if you do, you will have been able to make even more money elsewhere. But those other places would have cost more to carry for 5 years. The lower carrying costs are unlikley to make you better off from an investment perspective. But if your 5-year cost of carry in LIC is all you can afford or are all you are willing to risk - just likely only being able to afford the penny stock - then that's the only way you can play the game and you have to accept the fact that, relatively speaking, the cards are stacked against you.

WHO THE HELL CARES!
No one even reads this thread anymore....
Everyone can see it's the same moron over the past 7 days talking about the same load of crap. Buster123 was just another account create to try to have some objective so you can make that huge post again. Again, NO ONE CARES!

Nivlac really is clueless. How many times do we have to say that there is no public housing project being built in Hunters Point? He must be dense to keep saying something that is clearly false. Any apartments developed on those sites will be privately built, privately owned, and privately run and managed.

@CarolSt: this is not a PH love-fest yahoo group, this is a real estate web site. As such, we discuss properties. These properties may or may not be ones we own, live in, are interested in. And PH, in particular, is an interesting building because you can really see RE changes happening (not quite real time, but about as good as it gets). This is in large part because of the total number of units and the timing of the completion of those units in the market. Feeding the fire is the wide dispersion of opinions on this neighborhood as a long term investment. Finally, the unwillingness of some owners to say that there are *any* issues with this particular building make this thread irresistible for the generally bearish posters on this board.

wishhouse.... can we turn this into an adults only thread?

cue the music...
...
I personally love thin walls; there is nothing like the slow soft (or loud, depending on the building) sounds of your neighbors making love within 6.25 feet of you- you learn things; you experience their passion; you participate in your own way.
...
I think I may have just come up with a marking scheme!

"How many times do we have to say that there is no public housing project being built in Hunters Point?"

Apparently denial aint just a river in Egypt. The land is and will be owned by the city. The mayor calls it "public housing" and "the largest affordable housing development in New York City since 1974" and a responce to the "10-year waiting list for public housing" in the city. No public housing is literally built by city workers and managed by city workers and offered at zero rent. By that definition, NYC has no public housing at all. The massive QueensWest development in Hunters Point is low- to moderate-income housing built on city land at below-market subsidized rents - aka PUBLIC HOUSING.

here you go again LICC--why cant you just hole up in your apt at ph and quietly lick your wounds--your campaign of disinformation, which gets debunked over and over, serves only to bring continued attention to your lousy investment--id have sympathy for you but for your attempts to attract greater fools

and the public housing denial epitomizes what i am speaking of--clean debunk by ivar on this one (kind of a layup, ivar, no?)--funnier yet are comments that investors in ph will benefit because said housing will be slow to be built due to nyc economic difficulties--i guess the logic is that there's an imbedded land lease of a few years on the manhattan skyline view?? and i guess a slow build is good because that lengthens the time in which one can live a few feet from a gaping major construction site and all the attendant, lovely quality of life benefits??

your reference to buster confuses me as I couldnt glean anything sensible at all from that emission

ivar's comment is about as dense as nivlac's. I'm not surprised Ubottom agrees with it. Public housing is owned and run by New York City. The city does own the land. These buildings are going to be privately owned and managed. 60% of the units will be available to people via lottery, and those people have to fall within middle income ranges based on HPD data. The ranges are approximately $50000 to $150000. The rents will be based on the income ranges and will be much higher than anything in public housing. 40% of the units will be market rate available to anyone. There will be no low income apartments in the buildings on this city-owned land. Calling this a public housing project is total misinformation and shows that you either are a hater or are to slow to understand what is going on.

InFamous says "WHO THE HELL CARES! No one even reads this thread anymore.... Again, NO ONE CARES!

Quite obvious that he does care
(1) He read this
(2) He has posted here more than I have done
(3) He is having a conniption

ok li--you win--subsidized housing to be built directly in front of all manhattan skyline views so boldly displayed on the ph website on city land where the city has contacted out the construction and management is good for your ph investment and others should buy there before its too late as well

ill get a cab over there with my checkbook now---

pathetic are your attempts to use semantics to misinform--

Nivlac,

You are a FUCKING MORON.

UBottom,

You are a FUCKING MORON.

Ivar,

You are a FUCKING MORON.

Mike77,

You are even a BIGGER FUCKING MORON.

what is it about LIC that causes so many posters to unravel?

Aboutready,

You are a FUCKING MORON.

"what is it about LIC that causes so many posters to unravel?"

This thread isn't about LIC. It's about bashing PH.

How sweet. He really DOES care.

Maybe InFamous is fed up that you can't have a normal discussion on this board without a few haters coming on and hijacking it with dumb comments and false information.

sensitive flowers always feel the greatest pain.