Proposed ac law

what about the houseless? Don't they deserve lower summer temps?

I grew up in NYC and there was never a single air conditioner in our home until I bought one with money from a summer job when home from college. We should also legislate steaks and lobsters on Sundays for everyone.

Ha! nyc_sport same here! I actually found one in the communal storage room in the basement of my apartment building. Stuck it in my bedroom window and it sort of worked.

It could end up saving the city money through fewer emergency room visits. Hopefully the electrical grid is up to it. I remember the 77 blackout. Con-Ed no doubt pleased. Environmentalists less so. @nyc_sport you're right in that it could be framed as a form of social engineering: legislating outcomes rather than opportunities but that's for a different board...

The unit can be inexpensive. If electricity is not included in the lease many will not be able to operate it.

@stache - That is a great point. I was just comparing utility bills between same sized living spaces in OH and NY; NY utility bill is 3X because I forgot to turn off PTACs in southern-exposure NY apartment. We are never there for any length of time during the summer, and now I see that were we to ever occupy it full-time in the summer, that AC cost is an expense that would certainly detract from the joy I otherwise feel when I am in NY. I still don't understand why the NY AC bill is 3X the Columbus AC bill; I am thinking it is because NY apt is southern exposure and Columbus condo is northern exposure?

>The unit can be inexpensive. If electricity is not included in the lease many will not be able to operate it.

Renters have to pay electricity for most leases. If it ever becomes law, the landlord just need to provide the tentants the AC units, in the same way as they are required to provide the stove and refrigerator.

>The unit can be inexpensive. If electricity is not included in the lease many will not be able to operate it.

Renters have to pay electricity for most leases. If it ever becomes law, the landlord just need to provide the tentants the AC units, in the same way as they are required to provide the stove and refrigerator.

Didn't know about the stove rqmt. Here's a cute unit (in what I gather is a tricky coop) with no stove.

https://streeteasy.com/building/170-west-74-street-new_york/903

Will a hotplate do?

@mcr: No, the difference is probably in the rates charged. I'm looking at 3 recent bills: one each in NYC (ConEd), upstate NY (NYSEG), and northern Idaho (Northern Lights CoOp): For electricity ConEd is charging 12.41 cents/kwh, NYSEG is 7.7 c/kwh*, and NL is 8.23 c/kwh. On top of that, there are delivery charges: ConEd is 18.45 c/kwh, NYSEG is 7.27 c/kwh, and none for NL. Offsetting the cheaper NYSEG and NL rates are monthly fixed fees of $22/mo and $30/mo, respectively. Plus a dizzying range of taxes. Adding up the power, delivery, taxes, and fees, and doing some math, I end up with rough total costs of 44 c/kwh, 23 c/kwh, and 15 c/kwh, respectively. Main difference: NL is a co-op, and gets most of their power from hydroelectric (via the Bonneville Power Administration), ConEd and NYSEG aren't and don't.

(* the final bill is cheaper, as there are different peak/off-peak rates. I cited the peak rate)

Aaron, Thank you for the comparison. Most of the difference in bills for the same amount of power consumed comes from the delivery charges, fees and taxes. NYC is just expensive every which way.

Beyond, the price differences Aaron2 notes:

- South-facing uses more electricity

- Obviously ambient temperatures in NY vs. OH matter

- If your apartment building is relatively unoccupied with neighbors who don't have their ACs on, your AC is effectively cooling a lot more than just your apartment.

- A lot will depend on whether your building is providing a degree of the cooling function, via cold water that your ACs use to cool the air they draw, or not.

I'd be curious to hear what you pay per KWH in OH. My rate is 12.4 cents supply and 20.5 cents delivery. I'm not sure why I pony up and extra 2 cents on delivery relative to Aaron2.

Yet again, I learn about a whole new area on Streeteasy Talk. This was a fun exercise indeed. Same time period 5/30-6/28 in both locations:

NYC (ConEd): Used 544 KWH at supply cost of 10.7 and delivery cost of 20.7 with all sorts of taxes on top for total electric bill of $230.66. (Total ConEd bill was higher still, at $285 because it also has a gas component).

Columbus (Edge Utilities): Used 888 KWH with no breakdown of supply, delivery or taxes, but just a bare total electric bill of $112.81.

So, apparently, yes, it appears every aspect of living in NYC is just plain EXPENSIVE. Were there no Mr. MCR in the picture, I'd opt for a petite studio in Riverdale where I kept the windows open all the time with an old fashioned fan going when I was at home!

@nada: Because you live on a higher floor, so are charged more to push those electrons farther uphill? (I'm on the 15th floor, but relatively high UES ground).

I double checked my bill: I left off ConEd's 'basic service charge' of $20.28 (lower than NYSEG or NL's), which just confirms mcr's observation about NYC as an expensive place to cool and light.

Very funny, wiseguy!

Technically, there is power loss on the wire between where you are metered and where you draw the power… so yeah, you pay more for “pushing” those electrons further uphill. But of course, this is negligible. I was talking about the effect of heat rising. Clearly, you were never a servant living in the “penthouse” during a past life.

What happens to all the builders who build those all glass buildings which work like greenhouses and put in inadequate PTACs? It is not hard to find complaints of PTACs being unable to cool below 80F on really hot days.Will the landlord/co-op/condo board be forced to install a different system?

@ multicityresident - Check the energy efficiency rating of your PTAC. The PTACS used in NYC are different from the standard motel type PTACs. Even the newest ones are about half as efficient as central ACs, mini splits or even the regular motel style PTACs.

I'm also checking on my Con Edison bill for the last three months.

The supply rate and delivery rates change from one month to another month, not sure if it depends on the total amount of the electricity usage or the season.

All the numbers on the rates quoted below are the base rate, not including the tax or other any additional fees.
1. June 7 to July 9: supply rate: 12.4, delivery rate: 19.6, usage: about 560 kWh, Total bill: about $220
2. May 6 to June 7: supply rate: 10.9, delivery rate: 18.3, usage: about 220 kWh, Total bill: about $130
3. April 9 to May 8: supply rate: 11.2, delivery rate: 17.7, usage: about 190 kWh, Total bill: about $80

Somehow, there is small decrease of the supply rate in May 6 to June 7. Not sure why.

MTH,
I had friends who grabbed shotguns and went to guard friend's/families stores in Bushwick as it burned.

There's probably someone somewhere with a pointy head - hopefully not bankrolled by GE or Samsung - who can tell us how much $ is lost in productivity due to heat/lack of a/c.

@30yrs madness. I just holed up in a friend's apt without ac and sweated

They didn't call it New Amsterdam for fun and games. Everything we do here still descends from Dutch culture (tax the hell out of everything). This is our legacy.