sunday open houses

When I was looking (sans broker) I usually tried to see 10 apts. The couple times I went with a broker we only saw 5.

A good day would be zero with a broker; maybe five or six without one.

I never go to open houses with a broker if I can help it--it's far more efficient without someone trying to gauge your interest, etc. If I'm working with a broker I'll tell him/her that I'll be happy to sign in with their name, but I'd rather make the rounds alone.

I fully agree with bramstar. I like making the rounds alone. In the past I've even let a broker give me his/her suggestions, seen the places on my own (along with others I'm interested in that were not suggested by the broker), and then contacted the broker the following Monday with my observations to allow then to finer tune the next round of suggestions they give me for the following weekend. As long as the broker you're working with knows that you're having complete and full discussion/disclosure with them about the places you're looking at that they suggested, I've found they're pretty comfortable letting you go it alone (it also frees them up to schlep some other know-nothing around instead, and makes their job far more efficient). A less reputable broker will be far too territorial to do this, so it's one good way of building trust with your chosen broker, and seperating the professionals from the idiots.

malraux - A lot of brokers have tried to court me on the buy side, often with suggestions of apartments we might view together. Never - NEVER - has a broker proposed a single listing that I hadn't already noticed, considered, and, in many cases, visited. Often, I know more about the apartments and buildings than they do. And of course, if they happen to have an exclusive that even resembles my specs, "it's a perfect fit".

Buyers' brokers have a place. So do personal shoppers, dog-walkers, concierges, valet parkers and all the other hand-holding human accoutrements of affluent American life.

West81st:

In principal, agreed. I tend to walk alone. But in the past, here and there, I have used brokers as well. When I have, it has been as I described above. Listen - some people are just more comfortable using a broker - it's not my preferred methodology, but if someone wants to, that's their business. You will find, that in the majority of cases, those who buy in the $5MM+ range always use a broker, as they simply don't have the time to invest in the research. I find that the further below the $5MM range the buyer is (these days due to streeteasy and the like), the less likely a buyer is inclined to go down the broker route. To each their own.

I work with the lawyers who write the offering plans for new development - they know about new offerings pretty much before anybody else, regardless. As far as stuff other than new development, I pretty much go it alone.

I second West81st. I would usually go to 5-6 on a Sunday and there almost always was another apartment for sale in the same building at the time I was there so I would go and check that out even if it wasn't what I wanted to get a feel for some of the other units, lines, etc.

To be honest, I also used it to get some ideas for renovations....what looked good and more often than not, what didn't look good. It was free and useful.

Y'know, those greedy Wall Street fat cats - they like to delegate. Real Americans - hockey moms, soccer moms, joe sixpacks, teachers - God love 'em, their reward is in Heaven, right? Here's a shout-out to you, PS166! Well, we don't have personal assistants or pet salons or brokers. If we want to put lipstick on the pit bull or check out a penthouse on Fifth Avenue, doggoneit, we just do it. I'm one myself who's used to rolling up her sleeves and doing stuff herself, and putting our country first and not blinking.

don't forget the nukyular weapons

West81st, everyone knows we're just a team of mavericks here in NYC. We'll talk straight to the American sellers and won't answer their questions the way brokers necessarily want to hear them answered.

Walk Alone.

In case of double broker (one for the seller and one for you) you will be the last on the list of the selling broker.

Gumball: Nuclear weaponry, of course, would be the be-all, end-all of just too many people and too many parts of our city. But if one just happened to hit the offices of Corcoran and Elliman and maybe a few TV networks and a certain liberal newpaper - you know who you are, Mr. Sulzburgman - well, like we say back in my home town, it would be a pretty good start.

'Aw, say it ain't so, Joe' - 'Doggone it' - we'll just 'Drill, baby, drill' - for that 'white flag of surrender' - that's what the 'Joe six-packs and hockey moms across the country' really want.

"In case of double broker (one for the seller and one for you) you will be the last on the list of the selling broker."

Folks, is this true? I've been looking to purchase my first home and my broker was initially very helpful. I've since spent hundreds of hours on Streeteasy, and walking around neighborhoods, and going to open houses by myself, so she seldom sends me a listing I haven't seen already and I often know a place better than the selling broker, not to mention my broker.

I've wondered whether having a buyer's broker would hurt my chance in getting a place, and have done research on the topic. I understand the economics of it all..the 6% split between the brokers. My understanding is having a buyer's broker does not hurt the bidder. The selling broker must present all offers to the seller. There are strict rules to that from the RE Board. I understand people motivated by $ work in certain ways, but a rule is still a rule.

I like my broker and would like to have someone there to guide me through the closing process. That's why I keep her, not because I need help finding a place. Recently however, I put a bid on a FSBO I found myself. I did not include my broker b/c that cost would have come directly out of my pocket.

dw55 - It depends on your comfort level. If you feel that you can manage the process by yourself than go it alone. If you feel that you would be more comfortable with a broker to guide you through the process, negotiations and board packages and you like/trust a broker then use one.

My wife and I did not use one when we bought our coop and I don't think I would use when when we sell our apartment.

There are several threads on this exact topic here.

West81st is a female? For some reason I imagined a dude.

kgg, LMAO. I thought the same thing.

Senator JuiceMan - hey, can I call you Jue? Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of West81st as one man or one woman. And unfortunately that's sometimes where those steps lead. But I also want to clarify, if there's any kind of suggestion at all from my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their apartments and choosing brokers that they deem best for themselves, you know, I am tolerant and I have a very diverse family and group of friends and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue, some very dear friends who don't agree with me on this issue. But in that tolerance also, no one would ever propose, not on Streeteasy, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations with a broker or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties. But I will tell Americans straight up that I don't support defining each poster as anything but one man or one woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about what that actually means. But I'm being as straight up with Americans as I can in my non-support for anything but a traditional definition.

Not only is West81st a woman...she's loaded tonight. We like you even more now.

Loaded for an Alaskan bear hunt! Yep!

so how many votes does/do West81st have?

There's no question that employing the services of a buyer's broker can very well yield a higher price for the bidder at the end of the day. Even though the buyer doesn't pay the buyer's broker directly, the money can, effectively, come out of his own pocket. And there's no question, in my view, that going at it alone greatly increases the chances of your landing the deal.

The economics are simple. Even though it is the seller who pays both the buyer and seller's broker (via a flat commission of usually 6%, and sometimes 5%, that is paid directly to the seller's broker but split between the buyer's and seller's broker), and listing agreements establish an absolute commission that will be paid by the seller regardless of how many brokers are involved, the fact is that most transactions are indeed co-broked between two brokers (something like 85% in Manhattan). Thus, a seller's broker expects to have to split his commission and only receive 3% (which he then splits with his office.)

Now, imagine you're a seller's broker and are lucky enough to receive a bid directly from a shrewd bidder, who comes to you without some annoying and unnecessary buyer's broker. Dollar signs start flashing before your eyes as you realize that if this bidder consummates the transaction, you're going to receive double the compensation you would if someone else represented by their own broker buys the apartment. Thus, you're naturally going to lobby your "client" HARD (I put 'client' in quotes, since I think it's disingenuous to suggest that brokers represent anyone but their own interests) to accept whatever offer no-broker man is offering. If you're a particularly unscrupulous broker, you might tout the buyer's credentials and likelihood to pass the board. And if you're an honest hustler, you might offer to lop off a percentage point or two off the commission if your seller goes forward with the unrepresented bidder. In such a scenario, everybody wins: the broker makes more money than (s)he expected to, the seller pays less of a commission, and the shrewd buyer who showed up without a broker might therefore get a bid lower than would have otherwise been accepted to pass. One fewer mouth to feed means more fun for everyone.

In sum, despite not seeming to make a difference in cost on the surface, not having a buyer's broker can undoubtedly impact a buyer's ability to score a deal and for a lesser price. Just as on a purely financial level, the decision of whether to pay fully in cash or with a mortgage shouldn't impact a seller's decision(since he'll be taking home the same compensation whether the check is made out by a bank or the buyer) the fact is that a buyer's willingness to pay in cash has an enormous impact on the price a seller will take and the likelihood of his considering one buyer over another. Most don't have the option of paying with cash, but everyone with access to the internet and half a brain can go through the process of buying an apartment without the "assistance" of a meddling broker who's looking out solely for himself. If you have the time to devote to the project, I would highly recommend that any buyer utilize their brains instead of a broker to find a home.

West81st for President!!!

Yes!!!

West81st, I can't begin to translate your post, not sure if it was meant to be poetic, sarcastic, or, um , written after a bottle of red. In any case, I love your stuff, and for whatever reason I thought you were a dude. You continue to be a bit of a mystery for a number of reasons (e.g. living in a rent controlled apartment but attending open houses for $3M units and telling us that it is for "personal reasons" that you would rather not get into). There are many characters on this board and you are one of my favorites both for the content you provide and the idiosyncrasies of your posts. Rock on, one of these day I’ll bump into you at 81st and Columbus and buy you a beer.

I think West81st is sleeping it off.

Oh, and I would guess that it was at least a liter of red. Anyway, hope you will be back in top form for your Sunday reports!

West81st copied almost verbatim the erratic, disjointed, homophobic answer that Sarah P. gave at the debate in response to gay marriage. In case somebody didn't watch it...

kgg: I love that you thought that last post was alcohol-induced, because it's almost an exact quote from Thursday's debate. Anyway, thanks to all for the kind words.

I get it! Sarah "Queen of the Crackers" Palin was drunkenly rambling on about her non-support of anything but traditional relationships between Moose and other large mammals and West81st was soberly mocking her.
Well done. Sorry I didn't get it. Was starting to thing that you might be trans-gender West81st which is cool because I am tolerant and I have a very diverse family and group of friends and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me, but they are a bunch of crackers so who cares what they think.

West81st is a great contributor here. Gender doesn't matter, thought process does.

Out of curiosity, does anyone on this board have a relative who is a R/E broker in another state? How do you deal with non-NYC specific info from a broker from another state who thinks they know everything?

Because frankly I would love to buy, but I cannot get out from under this relative's thumb.

W81, hilarious.

Someonewhoknows:

You bring up an interesting perspective.

West81st - very very funny.

West 81st--that was wonderful. Ranks with the Letterman devoted to Sarah and any recent Saturday Night Live. Don't need to point out both shows are made in New York :)

West81st is a nasty, rude, little person.

Julia -- I knew it. You are really not any of those people you have been accused of! You are Sarah Palin!

Funny though, I always pictured you as a working man's Christina Baranski.

On second thought, I kind of thought of you as Julia Child.

You know, I think a good barometer here, as we try to figure out if this is a good time or a bad time for Manhattan real estate, is go to a kid's soccer game on Saturday, and turn to any parent there on the sideline and ask them, "How are you feeling about Manhattan real estate?"

And I'll bet you, you're going to hear some fear in that parent's voice, fear regarding the investment that some of us have in real estate. Did we just take a major hit with those investments?

Fear about, how are we going to afford to send our kids to Dalton? A fear, as small-business owners, perhaps, how we're going to borrow any money to increase inventory or hire more people or pay for the chauffeur for the Prius.

The barometer there, I think, is going to be resounding that Manhattan real estate is hurting and the federal government has not provided the sound oversight that we need and that we deserve, and we need reform to that end.

Now, stevejhx thankfully has been representing reform. Two years ago, remember, it was stevejhx who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae (NYSE:FNM) and Freddie Mac (NYSE:FRE. He sounded that warning bell.

People in the internets with him, his colleagues, didn't want to listen to him and wouldn't go towards that change in thinking that was needed then. I think that the alarm has been heard, though, and there will be that greater understanding, again thanks to stevejhx's efforts that he was so instrumental in bringing folks together over this past year, even suspending his his own business to make sure he was putting blogging on streateasy first.

Funny jrd, but west81 already made that joke.

In my comment there, it was a lame attempt at a joke and yours was a lame attempt at a joke, too, I guess, because nobody got it. Of course we know what stevejhx does.

Cute response, JRD

Still clever JRD. She is just a spoof magnet!

Julia got up on the wrong side of the bed, huh?