chasing the market down: our favorite price choppers

They may go under anyway, facing Roosevelt Hospital like that. Although I am sure many people love sirens blaring 24/7.

259 East 78th Street (small townhouse, needs TLC)
08/05/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $3,600,000.
10/29/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $3,300,000.
12/29/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $3,200,000.
01/28/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $2,995,000.
02/17/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $2,750,000.
04/17/2009 Sale closed for $2,050,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/239198-condo-1-irving-pl-gramercy-park-new-york?email=true

This apartment has been on the market for very nearly a year, and boy has it been behind the curve:
05/17/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $3,195,000.
06/25/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $2,999,000.
09/13/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $2,900,000.
10/21/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $2,695,000.
12/05/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $2,500,000.
04/29/2009 Price decreased by 20% to $2,000,000.

The good news is that, given a few more $500,000 price chops, I'll be able to put in an offer. The bad news is that it's down 37% from original ask.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/319325-coop-215-west-75th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

This one caught my eye today due to square footage inflation. By my calculation the apartment is around 650, not 900, square feet.

StreetEasy History
04/04/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,000,000.
05/26/2006 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $799,000.
07/14/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $999,000.
07/22/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $895,000.
08/19/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $799,000.
11/10/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $715,500.
03/30/2009 Listing is no longer available.
04/29/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
04/29/2009 Price decreased by 15% to $610,000.

Another big chop at 151 East 83rd Street #5D:
03/20/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $1,675,000.
10/29/2008 Sotheby's Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,350,000.
11/09/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $995,000.
03/24/2009 Price decreased by 11% to $890,000.
05/01/2009 Price decreased by 16% to $750,000.

Looks like they've abandoned the five-year maintenance rebate of $833/month ($50K total) and simply baked it into the price, then chopped another $90K. So now the maintenance is listed at the full number, $2238. That's high, certainly, but I wonder if there's more to this story than high monthlies and eccentric kitchen tiles.

Both of the last apartments listed are testaments to the absolute folly of the bubble market and the lack of insight of their owners. I mean, both, even at 30-40% discounts from the OLP are overpriced. And their OLP are ludicrous: 1.6 M for a 1000 sqft 2/2 with very high maintenance? 1 M in 2006!! for a tiny matchbox apt.?

It should be a crime to list a 650-square-foot apartment as a 900-square-foot apartment, like the one 215 W. 75th Street. It astonishes me that the broker cannot take out a ruler and figure it out herself. This is not rocket science. Although for some brokers, perhaps it is rocket science.

kitty - in implying that some brokers are stupid (i.e., incapable of doing basic arithmetic), you give them too much credit. The fundamental problem is not that they are stupid (although they may be that too); it is that they are corrupt.

wrt 215 w 75th. It is certainly overstated - but it is certainly more than 650 sf, There are two rectangles, 25-3 x 26-3 plus 6 x 12-3. Add 10 sf for the small closet and you get 746 sf. So certainly on the low side, but close to the "standard" 20% broker overstatement rather than the 38% overstatement if it really were 650.

Re: 151 East 83rd #5D

The pictures are great...the apt needs some TLC! The broker's justification for the maintenance was higher taxes by Park Ave(which it isn't really) and it's an old building. Not really reassuring...

So who thinks 151 East 83rd Street is going to move at $750,000? Have to assume that the new owners will want to redo kitchen and baths...

151 east 83rd is an eye-popping price and does make you wonder if there is more there. the maintenance is high but not utterly egregious. the taste is questionable but the apartment is far from a wreck. and it's not the prettiest block but a pretty great UES location. just a sign of the times i guess.

by the way, the comp on 5D is insane:

recorded sale:
06/16/2004 #3D $1,150,000

still a million dollars for less than 1000sf on Hester Street. but at one point in time it was $1.6ish.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/342776-condo-180-hester-st-chinatown-new-york

111 East 56th Street #20th floor: 58% drop from initial ask to close.
12/20/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $4,250,000.
03/26/2008 Price decreased by 12% to $3,750,000.
05/02/2008 Price decreased by 12% to $3,300,000.
06/02/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $2,950,000.
04/29/2009 Sale closed for $1,800,000
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/111-east-56-street-manhattan
The $15K+ maintenance may have dampened buyer interest. $1.8MM still seems like a decent buy, considering that the floor below was asking $13.5MM a year ago.

253 E. 73rd, 7AG. This has got to hurt:

01/19/2008 Also Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,699,000.
06/06/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $2,099,000.
08/12/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,300,000.
10/31/2008 Listing entered contract.
05/05/2009 Currently Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,395,000.
05/05/2009 Currently Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,395,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/342692-coop-1-fifth-avenue-greenwich-village-new-york

The timing on this poor apartment is just excruciating. Listed in August '08, still on the market, dropped from $4.95m to $3.5m. Looks as though they were also trying to unload 10D; delisted for now, after several price cuts.

03/09/2006
Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
08/16/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Anne Weintraub at $4,950,000.
12/01/2008
Price decreased by 8% to $4,550,000.
02/17/2009
Price decreased by 12% to $4,000,000.
03/23/2009
Price decreased by 4% to $3,850,000.
05/04/2009
Price decreased by 9% to $3,500,000.

and it is still substantially overpriced relative to, say, 32 washington square park west, around the corner, which has open views and 7 rooms instead of six.

Hey westie... how's that cross gender RE broker thing going for ya ;) Good luck.... and stay away from the dark side.....

Who buys with a $15K maintenance? Of one of the few benefits of owning is the ability to mange cash flow (i.e. leverage down and pay "just" the maintenance (although you have to look at the opportunity cost of being 100% equity in your home))...w/ $15K maintenance, I'd do a rental all day long till I kick the bucket :)

evnyc: the 2006 sale was $2,750,000.00

Regarding 151 East 83rd. Am I right in thinking that you have to go through a bedroom to get to either bathroom? My high school friend's mom got a place like that after a divorce. You'd go over to hang out on a saturday night. The mom would go to bed at 9 p.m. and you'd stay until you had to pee so badly you took a cab home.

What's going on with this one? 135 East 83rd St, #5DE. Reduced from 3.25 mm to 2.25 mm, on market for almost a year, supposedly entered contract twice but still not closed. Guess buyer fell through twice. Says motivated seller - he/she must be hurting. Still looks overpriced by 20% going by the comps.

03/14/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $3,250,000.
05/28/2008
Price decreased by 8% to $2,990,000.
07/08/2008
Price decreased by 3% to $2,900,000.
09/13/2008
Listing entered contract.
11/22/2008
Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
11/22/2008
Price decreased by 14% to $2,500,000.
12/12/2008
Price decreased by 10% to $2,250,000.
01/29/2009
Listing entered contract.
03/10/2009
Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.

I have to wonder how many of these apartments going into contract recently are going to close. Now that sellers are mostly unable to demand no mortgage contingency clause, a seller obviously has much less problem signing a contract. Even a qualified buyer may have little chance at getting a mortgage for some of these properties.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/363182-coop-19-west-9th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

07/29/2005 $4,500,000
01/24/2006 $4,200,000
07/26/2006 $3,995,000
3/10/2008 $3,750,000
04/1/2008 $3,695,000
11/06/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $3,495,000.
04/03/2009
Price decreased by 6% to $3,295,000.
05/01/2009
Price decreased by 9% to $2,995,000.

Unit was in contract last Summer for $3,500,000

REO, thanks, I'd say that one has a ways to fall yet. I'm not an insider so I have to dig around in ACRIS if I want to see prices, which usually I can't be bothered to do.

evnyc, i just forked over the $10 for the insider status. i must say i didn't get to the gym today. i promised bargainhunter that i'd try to do some comp analysis, but i kept pulling up this intriguing info. did you know that almost all of the buyers in the Brompton lived in the neighborhood before they bought? and most buyers in the Atelier did not live in the state (not infrequently the country) before they purchased? could be parents purchasing for kids, but this stuff fascinates me.

515 West End Avenue #4D. If you wanted to know the market price of a decent, prime-UWS classic six at any point in the last year and a half, you could take the asking price on this listing as of that date, and subtract 10%.
01/17/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $2,395,000.
02/13/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $2,295,000.
03/26/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $2,175,000.
05/01/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $2,075,000.
09/08/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,995,000.
10/02/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,900,000.
11/24/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,850,000.
05/05/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,750,000.

this is beyond comprehension. these people have been trying to sell for almost 18 months? out of morbid curiousity, what's the price now to move it? $1.2 million?

and, of course, when they started, they probably could have gotten $1.8 million.

wow.

This is some tasty chopping, another few hundred grand.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/166091-coop-605-park-avenue-lenox-hill-new-york

01/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $12,500,000.
02/23/2008 Price decreased by 16% to $10,500,000.
05/23/2008 Price decreased by 19% to $8,500,000.
04/10/2009 Price decreased by 26% to $6,250,000.
05/06/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $5,900,000.

this should be in the comps as well, because it closed in 04/05 for $820k. Looks like they renovated, too.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/180311-coop-150-east-61st-street-lenox-hill-new-york

02/07/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $979,000.
04/18/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $949,000.
05/08/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $899,000.
07/08/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $799,000.
02/08/2009 Listing is no longer available.
02/19/2009 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
03/24/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $745,000.
05/05/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $719,000.

Yikes. Those cuts are just painful. Aboutready, I figured I would pony up the $10 when I get more seriously into the market, but that is some delightful information to have available. Having Insider access would, however, probably get me fired, so for now I'll stay cheap.

sorry to be a broken record but i still am fascinated by how people rationalize this as they watch it happen. will they reach the aha moment and make the necessary drop or ride it all the way down?

cc, it is STUNNING how many sellers think they should be getting a 25-30% premium over 2006 prices, at least for initial listing price.

but i'm starting to see a number of them hit early 2005 closing prices, meaning late 2004 prices going into contract. i'm seeing some go down to 2004. SE doesn't go earlier, but I have some memories and will be able to spot the real trendsetters.

evnyc, if i were still employed they'd have to fire me. as it is, if I don't haul my sorry ass back to the gym, etc. soon I'm going to become a fat, reclusive eccentric.

I'm starting to think the memo has been circulated. If you want to sell, deal now and deal quickly. west81st, what do you think? The new listings are coming on much lower, methinks, and the price cuts seem to have accelerated again.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/411612-condo-257-west-93rd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

06/23/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $919,000.
01/31/2007 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $899,000.
10/19/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,150,000.
02/19/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,100,000.
05/06/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Cantor and Pecorella at $795,000.

aboutready http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/166091-coop-605-park-avenue-lenox-hill-new-york

Sometimes a broker should just say "no" to a seller.

A "pressing room" in the plan. Shades of Marjorie Merriwether Post.

Looking at some of these properties as I have been the past few days, there are some definite instances where I'd suspect the brokers regret the day they ever met their clients.

Taking listings with little hope
April, 29, 2009

It's not hard to find brokers in this market who believe that sellers who dig in and refuse to lower their listing prices are doing themselves a disservice because their homes will languish.

So why are brokers still taking on listings that are sure to linger for months and collect dust on a shelf? While the listing at hand might not sell right away, brokers say representing the properties, even when they are priced too high, can help them scoop up valuable buy-side clients.

Some brokers say that when apartment hunters — especially those who are browsing for properties that they can't necessarily afford — flock to open houses, they can often be redirected to properties that are more amenable to their budgets. And with sales activity off by half across much of New York because of the downturn, there are more idle brokers than at any time in recent memory and more opportunities on the buying side than on the selling side, brokers say.

"Slower brokers and younger brokers have nothing to lose by taking on a listing that might be unrealistic for today's market," said Noah Rosenblatt, a broker who runs UrbanDigs, a blog that focuses on the economics of the real estate market.

"They might potentially pick up some side leads, some people that they can eventually work with," he said, adding that he doesn't use the tactic himself.

The tactic of taking on listings that are doubtful to sell at the asking price is particularly pronounced in locations where sales are marketed chiefly through newspaper advertisements, which don't always specify the property's price, said Delton Cheng, the owner of Century 21 Homefront, based in Marine Park, Brooklyn.

He said some curious buyers will show up for the open house to get more information, at which time brokers can quickly introduce themselves and get information about what they are looking for.

Cheng says while he doesn't do it, he's seen many brokers advertise without listing prices in his 16 years as a broker (the practice is legal in New York, but the exact vicinity of the property must be listed). "I'm a strong believer in that idea that one thing leads to another," Cheng says. "And I don't think there is anything unethical about this."

Stockpiling listings can also help brokers attract sell-side clients, said Bradley White, a broker with Halstead Property. White said a Web site that suggests a broker is active (he says five listings is ideal), provides "a certain amount of credibility."

White said the owner of a Tribeca co-op who's frustrated with his current broker is considering becoming his client. He said he believes he stands a decent chance of picking up the client because of the breadth of his listings, especially because they're in Tribeca, where many of his other posted listings are located.

White said he is confident the Tribeca co-op will sell. He said that it's priced right and that he is not taking it on just for show, but he noted that displaying more listings is important because competing brokers do it and, as a result, pose stiff competition for sell-side clients.

Still, brokers say, the managers of their offices often frown on the pad-the-Web-site approach, because marketing each listing can be expensive.

Robby Browne, a broker with the Corcoran Group who handles many high-end listings, noted properties over a certain price, say $10 million, typically don't hold open houses — so the benefits of taking on a big-ticket apartment just to network are limited.

Browne said he can afford to be somewhat choosy when it comes to accepting listings. If an apartment is priced more than 10 percent above what he thinks the market can support, he said he will pass on it, as was the case recently with an 8,000-square-foot Tribeca co-op, which he said he turned down twice.

In addition, he said, jamming a Web site with too many listings can create logistical headaches, as the hundreds of calls that those listings generate might overwhelm most sales teams. Browne's own rule of thumb: only 10 listings at a time for his team, which is made up of five people. Plus, he said, while some brokers may be talented actors, they'll have a tough time convincing the seller that they are gung-ho for the property if they don't believe it has a chance of selling.

"If I don't believe in it, I won't take it because I won't sound convincing

source http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/taking-listings-with-little-hope

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/389536-coop-157-duane-street-tribeca-new-york

This could be a fabulous apartment, I just hate the renovation. The use of space is, IMHO, awful. They started it out at pushing 2 million for a 1-bedroom; I don't think it's fallen nearly far enough. You'd have to completely redo the brand-new reno to make it livable.

Okay let me get this straight...$1.5MM and my guests have to walk through my bedroom to use the only bathroom which also btw houses the washer/dryer? The maintenance is very reasonable and the total sq ft is not ridiculous for the price but adding a powder room and/or second bath will be expensive (if allowed). The expansive living space is nice but I see it as only being practical for an art gallery/dance club for people with iron bladders only. But people do so want to live in Tribeca...

Here's a good one - nearly 50%. Still too high given the real sf is 1500 and the maintenance is 2935.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/167877-coop-235-east-73rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

StreetEasy History

01/19/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,699,000.
03/11/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $2,649,327.
03/18/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $2,499,127.
05/03/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $2,459,127.
05/12/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $2,300,000.
06/06/2008 Later Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $2,099,000.
08/12/2008 Listing is no longer available.
03/05/2009 Bellmarc Listing is no longer available.
05/05/2009 Currently Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,395,000.
05/05/2009 Currently Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,395,000.

another best and final offer request, downtown. this has been a quick chop.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/383875-condo-83-murray-street-tribeca-new-york

02/11/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,925,000.
03/19/2009 Price decreased by 14% to $1,650,000.
03/23/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,495,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 20% to $1,200,000.

Still too expensive.. We have a huge supply of condos comming out this year from new development and the banks are only making very few jumbo loans. I say bring it down to 800k and then we are talking. I know this family who bought a place in lake george but couldnt get a loan because it is a vacation home. So they paid up front, how many people in NY can do that? So vacation homes and expensive condo must come down more in prices..

"another best and final offer request"

Reminds me of an old ?Saturday Night Live? dust up of Muhamar Quadaffi:

"This is the line of death: you cross this line, you die!!!!...........
ok, THIS is the line of death, you cross this line, you die............
OK, THIS IS THE LINE OF DEATH, you cross this line, you die......"

Aboutready, I love that loft. If I had the cash, I would totally buy that. I'm saving it to slaver over at work.

Lizyank, did you see the other apartment for sale in that building? The other one is configured as a 2-bedroom and nicely laid out, in my opinion. I've come to accept that floor plan opinions are fairly individual, though. I'm a sucker for the flexible layout.

29 e 22 street... racing to the bottom with $1mm in chops

05/22/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $2,750,000.
07/09/2008 Price decreased by 13% to $2,395,000.
08/11/2008 Delisted temporarily.
09/09/2008 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
11/04/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $2,150,000.
02/01/2009 Delisted temporarily.
04/14/2009 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
04/14/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,950,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,795,000.

evnyc, i love it too, but to make it work I'd have to expand the 2nd bedroom, use half the existing kitchen space for a bathroom, and move the kitchen, if the plumbing risers would even allow it. i think many people looking for that kind of space would need to do the same. Still, if it were possible, you could have a very nice apartment done to your specs.

30yrs, yes. exactly.

I really like the layout of #4 at 157 Duane with 2 beds, 2 baths and a home office. And it doesn't seem to be that ridiculously overpriced given that its in Tribeca versus a similar space in Gramercy, Flatiron or Chelsea. Or it may be that I've been out of the market for a while (1 very significant year) and apartments in less trendy areas are going for MUCH less?

Here's a big chop. 17% off ask. Looks to be just over 3000 sq ft though the views of the park are side views at best. At least it is on the 71st st side rather than the noisy 72nd st side. Renovation appears to be rather nice.

115 CPW #7A
03/06/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $5,900,000.
05/12/2009 Price decreased by 17% to $4,900,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/390027-coop-115-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

The first item on this thread was from mrsbuffet, as follows, from October 2008, regarding

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/226126-condop-4-west-21st-street-chelsea-new-york?email=true

"I thought I'd start a thread listing some favorite price chops. This is my personal favorite. I've been watching it ever since it came on at 2.25mil, which was a ridiculous pipe dream. It's been a perverse pleasure to watch it slowly come down to 1.895. I think it has farther to fall. "

Here's what happened -
04/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $2,250,000.
05/15/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $2,195,000.
06/10/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $2,125,000.
07/30/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $2,075,000.
08/22/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,999,000.
10/07/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,895,000.
10/16/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,795,000.
10/23/2008 Later Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,650,000.
10/24/2008 Listing is no longer available.
04/01/2009 Prudential Elliman Listing sold.
04/01/2009 Sale recorded for $1,450,000.

Yes indeed it had "further to fall" - thanks streeteasy and mrs buffet for keeping me out of the way.

325 West 86th Street #11C: On the Upper West Side, almost exactly the same narrative as the Chelsea listing Brodie updated a few minutes ago:
StreetEasy History
03/08/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,295,000.
04/11/2008 Price decreased by 13% to $1,995,000.
05/22/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,895,000.
07/03/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,795,000.
10/14/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,649,000.
02/07/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/05/2009 Listing is no longer available.
05/05/2009 Sale recorded for $1,473,750.

30+% below original ask / 10+% below final ask is becoming fairly routine for older listings.

By the way, that unit at 325W86 is a nicely renovated six, albeit a rather small one. The problem, I think, was that the maid's room had been merged into the trophy kitchen and the second bedroom was a study with a lot of built-ins; so the apartment showed as a fantastic 1BR.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/191437-coop-325-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

brodie, gotta love that 12% drop between final list and closing price. Down 27% from the original ask plus an additional 8% during negotiations, -35% from initial ask to final price. I wonder if the buyer's opening bid was somewhere around $1.35MM? Still, at $1000 sq ft I'm not sure who got the best of this deal.

325 West 86th Street #4A: Unusual twist here. This rear-facing estate six was listed with Stribling last year in "needs-everything", and chased the market down for seven months. Now it has a new kitchen and some other updates, and Elliman has it at $1.295MM.

StreetEasy History
04/08/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $1,795,000.
04/30/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,695,000.
06/20/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,649,000.
07/28/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,595,000.
09/15/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,495,000.
10/01/2008 Listing is no longer available.
10/08/2008 Re-listed by Stribling.
10/17/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,375,000.
11/10/2008 Stribling Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,375,000.
05/04/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,295,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/215302-coop-325-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/410906-coop-325-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

We'll see whether renovating was a good move. I suspect not, considering what happened in the market during those six months.

I believe the reno math went out the door with this mkt.... 1+1 = 1.25 :)

Interesting. If it started out as an estate sale, and they put a couple hundred thousand dollars into the renovation, they could potentially still drop the price significantly and make out like bandits. Depends on when they bought, right? If it was 1970, they might still make a killing.

Here's one in Harlem, 220 West 139th Street, wide townhouse, garage, renovated, very big lot, in Historical Striver's row, took over 45% chop:
06/01/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,450,000.
07/23/2008
Price decreased by 10% to $2,200,000.
11/20/2008
Price decreased by 20% to $1,750,000.
03/26/2009
Listing is no longer available.
Sold for $1,446,425
on 03/02/2009

Hi Mimi. A little farther north, another 45% chopper. Maybe if they cleared out some furniture...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/225916-multi-475-west-141st-street-hamilton-heights-new-york
StreetEasy History
04/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $3,000,000.
05/07/2008 Listing is no longer available.
05/15/2008 Re-listed by Corcoran.
07/28/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $2,700,000.
08/19/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $2,500,000.
10/08/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $2,300,000.
02/04/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $1,999,000.
04/23/2009 Listing is no longer available.
05/12/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
05/12/2009 Price decreased by 17% to $1,650,000.

today on Metro, L Haus in LIC is offing $565,000 for 1,082 sq feet 2 bedrooms plus three flexible options, in the other word, LIC just $500/sq. ft. So how's the new buildings in Wiil-B and Park slope insisting $700 sq ft.?

325 West 86th Street #4A: Uggs on the reno! I hate that kitchen with the dark coffin-colored cabinets and the real housewives of the O.C. marble. I'd have to subtract the price of redoing it from any offer. I'd say it was a big mistake.

16 East 96th Street #2-A (a.k.a. #2A): Over the course of a year, this Carnegie Hill ten has dropped a hyphen, a broker and 51%.
04/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by CBHK at $5,300,000.
06/22/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $4,900,000.
08/29/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $4,600,000.
10/11/2008 Price decreased by 13% to $3,995,000.
10/28/2008 Listing is no longer available.
11/03/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $3,995,000.
11/17/2008 Price decreased by 20% to $3,200,000.
02/17/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $2,900,000.
05/15/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $2,600,000.

DOs and DON'Ts of price-chopping...

DO: 515 West End Avenue #11D (one of the earliest "Market Movement with Comps" examples)
10/20/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $2,150,000.
02/20/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,450,000.
03/31/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $2,399,000.
04/14/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $2,250,000.
05/28/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $2,100,000.
06/16/2008 Listing entered contract.
08/21/2008 Listing sold.
08/21/2008 Sale recorded for $2,050,000.

DON'T: 515 West End Avenue #4D
StreetEasy History
01/17/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $2,395,000.
02/13/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $2,295,000.
03/26/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $2,175,000.
05/01/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $2,075,000.
09/08/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,995,000.
10/02/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,900,000.
11/24/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,850,000.
05/05/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,750,000.
05/14/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,700,000.

W81: I'm not seeing the lesson here. I didn't see either apt so I'm ignorant as to condition. But it seems to me that at the beginning of May, 4D was priced at 2.075m which was comparable to 11D's 2.1m. Are you saying that 7 floors meant that 4D had to be priced more than 25k lower? I'm not sure what lesson is to be desired from 11D's last ask of 2.1m?

nyc10023...ditto. I don't know enough about condition and other factors at play.

I'd say that this situation is a microcosm of the current mkt. Two aparments, same/similar layout. 7 floors different. The 'comp' created by 11D meant nothing to prospective buyers of 4D. In short, more sellers than buyers.

I believe the lesson here is that both apartments went on the market around the same time. Both were initially priced aggressively and therefore lingered on the market. #11D made steady cuts and went into contract before the sellers completely lost their shirts in the RE meltdown. Meanwhile #4D waits longer to do more cautious chops, and is now the definition of chasing the market down. Had #4D chopped more aggressively, it would likely have gone into contract when the market was healthier, and thus for a higher price.

Do I get a gold star, West81st?

Sorry - that last post re. 515 was pretty obscure. Here's my view: #11D was a significantly better property: more light, better layout, nicer finishes. By making bigger cuts in April and May, #11D closed the price gap to the point of indifference, so there was no conceivable reason for a buyer to pick #4D over #11D. It worked; #11D sold, and #4D sat. Then came the big problem: with no direct same-line competition, and the comfort of a comp at $2.05MM, #4D stood still over the summer while the market was locking up competely, and then resumed nibbling in the fall. As a result, #4D is probably no closer to being priced right than it was a year ago.

By 2009 standards, the cuts on #11D weren't especially big. For spring 2008, however, they were quick, dramatic, and intelligently targeted vs. the competition.

No gold star. Still so much to learn. Thank you for the analysis, as always, W81st.

evnyc: Yes, that's what I was getting at (with insufficient caffiene to express myself clearly). In short, "When you have to eat s**t, take big bites."

How about that dehyphenator on East 96th Street? Anybody seen it? $2.6MM still seems like a lot to live over a coffee shop on a busy intersection.

My mistake... the coffee shop isn't under 16 E.96th. And the apartment has some lovely preway details.

10 blocks further south, higher floors, similar space on park ave exist at the same price point. tough choices for 16 e 96

"Over the course of a year, this Carnegie Hill ten has dropped a hyphen, a broker and 51%." LMMFAO.

jerkstore, yes. brilliantly put.

425 West End Avenue #4A/4B (a.k.a. #4AB). Looks like the broker moved from Sotheby's to Corcoran and persuaded the owner (son of a certain calypso superstar who lives nearby) to re-list with him. The apartments still haven't been combined, though the Corcoran floorplan does include the needed piece of public hallway. With truly grand nines and tens selling in the $3MMs, (including you-know-who's old apartments at 300 WEA), I'm not sure this potential combo is competitive.

01/25/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $3,495,000.
01/28/2008 Price increased by 9% to $3,795,000.
02/05/2008 Listing is no longer available.
03/11/2008 Re-listed by Sotheby's.
03/11/2008 Price increased by 4% to $3,950,000.
03/27/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $3,695,000.
07/22/2008 Listing is no longer available.
01/17/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $3,250,000.
03/10/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $2,995,000.
05/15/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $2,695,000.

jerkstore... you are on fire.... nice postings... w/ gusto!

823 Park Avenue in Upper East Side

What do you think about this one:

08/09/2008
Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $24,750,000.
02/27/2009
Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $19,950,000.
03/13/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $16,750,000.
05/14/2009
Price decreased by 13% to $14,500,000.

It has dropped in 6 months around 40%!!

Another 50% chopper, and more hypen confusion.
281 West 11th Street #1AB (a.k.a. 1-A B)
04/15/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,995,000.
07/08/2008 Delisted temporarily by Prudential Elliman. Last priced at $1,895,000.
07/11/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,795,000.
08/01/2008 Listing is no longer available.
08/08/2008 Re-listed by Corcoran.
09/03/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,695,000.
09/17/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,595,000.
10/25/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,495,000.
01/06/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $1,295,000.
03/02/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/11/2009 Sale closed for $999,500.
The mansion-tax threshold was obviously a factor here.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/318803-coop-281-west-11th-street-west-village-new-york

"Hyphen confusion", that is.

Sanba: I think $14.5MM is still a lot of money for a ground-floor apartment.

Another big chop at 151 East 83rd Street #5D: UNDER CONTRACT, i think...

wheres the 400k to 200k price chops for us poor folk

299 Riverside Dr. #1E (a.k.a. #1BE)
03/31/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Cooper & Cooper Real Estate at $2,300,000.
04/29/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $2,199,000.
05/05/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $2,000,000.
05/28/2008 Listing is no longer available.
06/06/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,895,000.
08/17/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $1,795,000.
08/21/2008 Delisted temporarily.
09/09/2008 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
09/22/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,649,000.
12/12/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,575,000.
01/06/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,495,000.
02/27/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/08/2009 Sale closed for $1,425,000.

marco_m: There are factors propping up the $200-400K market that don't operate north of $1MM, and there are forces depressing the high end that are less relevant at the entry level.

Another ground-floor 3BR on RSD closes, after one last reduction. This one even avoided the mansion tax. The apartment isn't nearly as nice as 299 RSD, but the location is great.
100 Riverside Drive #1D
05/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,395,000.
07/09/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $1,295,000.
11/24/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,195,000.
01/11/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $1,075,000.
02/18/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/14/2009 Sale recorded for $975,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/252394-coop-100-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

318 East 30th Street: Quite a deal on a Kip's Bay Townhouse. Location problems, IIRC.
StreetEasy History
10/26/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $5,500,000.
01/28/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $4,900,000.
04/29/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $4,500,000.
06/16/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $3,995,000.
07/28/2008 Listing entered contract.
12/09/2008 Price decreased by 12% to $3,500,000.
12/10/2008 Re-listed by Sotheby's.
12/10/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $3,400,000.
01/22/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $2,950,000.
03/05/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $2,600,000.
03/28/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/12/2009 Sale recorded for $2,000,000.

The cashflow almost seems to make sense on 318E30 as an inv. prop. W81: what's the issue with the location, other than being in KB?

West 81 - what do you think about the price reduction on 33 Riverside Drive #9AB - down to $4.35mm off of $5.7 - been on the market for quite awhile. Pictures and lay out look excellent. Is this just a symtom of the high end market grinding to a halt?

53% down from original asking a year ago. both listings are for the same unit. this is in brooklyn, just off williamsburg bridge.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/266179-20-south-4th-street-williamsburg-brooklyn
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413194-townhouse-331-kent-avenue-williamsburg-brooklyn

now the gossip: "Filmmaker and sculptor Cosimo Cavallaro first put his 15,000-square-foot apartment and gallery at 20 South Fourth Street on the market for $12.8 million a year ago. After several price cuts, Cavallaro landed on an asking price of $5.95 million last week."

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/407341-condo-151-east-58th-street-midtown-new-york

just the first $1M chop, down only 13% so far but much more cuts are sure gonna come (imho). how much did he (Former New York Yankee Bobby Abreu) paid back in 2005 i have no idea (not an insider). he's competing with other 3 2BR, price choppers also that bought in 2005.

He paid $3.8M.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

funny, he just wanted exactly 100% on it. lol, do former athletes read newspapers? (ok, ok, it only takes 1 buyer...)

nyc10023: The most visible problem with that Kip's Bay address is Bellevue, according to Happyrenter.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7866-did-they-really-think-they-could-get-55-for-this

ezal: For one thing, 33 RSD is a combination, not a natural nine. Well-executed for sure, with wonderful views, but check the room dimensions. There's no grandeur in the space. Plus 33 RSD hasn't been a prestige address for about seventy years. I feel for the owners, but asking $5.7MM for that apartment never made any sense; the three big cuts have just kept pace with a collapsing sector. Maybe they should look around the corner, to 300 WEA. $5MM apartments are now $3.5MM apartments - river view, no river view, it doesn't matter, because the $5MM buyer is either out of the market or buying over-the-top properties like 91 CPW, 812 Park, etc.

When they did the combination, I think the owners of 33 RSD were trying for this: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/98362-coop-173-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york. They did pretty well, but that transformation just isn't possible.

"suggested that interested parties could bid even lower" for real? how weird is to hear a broker saying that?

these guys used to market madoff's "product". not a happy transaction but that might be the last of their problems.

Marisa Noel Brown, daughter of the Madoff-ruined Fairfield Greenwich Group founder Walter Noel, and her husband have put their townhouse at 12 East 78th Street on the market. The 7,800-square-foot home is listed with Stribling & Associates' Patricia Farman-Farmaian for $12 million. Last month, the Observer reported that the couple's broker was calling other agents saying the home was for sale for $11.5 million, but suggested that interested parties could bid even lower. The couple bought the home in January 2008 for $13.5 million.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/415013-townhouse-12-east-78th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

Did anyone see this price chop at 303 Greenwich in TriBeCa?

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/tribeca-price-chop-at-303-greenwich-has.html

$100k drop (the apartment even gained some square footage from its prior listing with a different broker :), making it the first 1BR that we've seen in this group of buildings that's under $1000 per sq ft.

11/29/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $980,000.
03/28/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $850,000.
04/24/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing sold.
03/19/2009 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Tabak is Tribeca at $850,000.
05/13/2009 Delisted by Tabak is Tribeca.
05/15/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $799,000.
05/24/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $699,000.

1 Morton Square #5EW: back on the market, and nearing its 2004 basis after an audacious flip attempt:
10/28/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,900,000.
11/08/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $3,495,000.
10/06/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
03/07/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,675,000.
03/13/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $2,625,000.
04/10/2009 Listing is no longer available.
05/28/2009 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,995,000.
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=929357

W81st, I see that the listing claims that this is 2011 pricing. That's quite a statement.

Can I ask what the deal is with having a private bathroom in the second bedroom? I was the only girl and I would have killed for that growing up. Simply put, for modest households in the midwest, the ensuite master bath was a sign of luxury (low-class luxe, anyway). Kids were expected to fight it out without bothering the parents too much. I've seen it in a lot of listings lately, and I find the setup really confusing.

This is a one bedroom requiring 50% down, and it needs work, but such a listing history they're having:

170 E. 78th, 3F. 4f sold in 2006 for $1.4mm.

04/03/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,249,000.
05/10/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,149,000.
06/24/2008 Price decreased by 13% to $995,000.
07/28/2008 Listing is no longer available.
07/29/2008 Listing entered contract.
07/31/2008 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
08/23/2008 Delisted temporarily.
09/05/2008 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
09/05/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $939,000.
10/06/2008 Listing entered contract.
12/11/2008 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
12/12/2008 Price decreased by 12% to $825,000.
02/06/2009 Price decreased by 15% to $699,000.

evnyc: It's a trade-off, like many things. With two en-suite baths, the architect has to use space on a powder room. Otherwise, guests have to tromp through a bedroom to use the facilities. Recent-vintage condos tend to sacrifice bedroom size to make room for extra (and/or bigger) bathrooms. That trend might not last forever, considering the number of buyers who now balk at puny bedrooms.

By the way, one irksome attribute of many older classic sixes is that all of the bathrooms are en-suite, including the third/maid's bath, and because they're positioned along an outside wall, there's no good way to convert one to a hall bath without carving a big gash out of a bedroom.

170 E. 78th: OMG!

"one irksome attribute of many older classic sixes.......there's no good way to convert one to a hall bath without carving a big gash out of a bedroom."
So true; great observation W81.

"This is a one bedroom requiring 50% down"

And now even with 50% it's at negative equity. But that doesn't say anything substantive, does it? (irony emoticon here)

"By the way, one irksome attribute of many older classic sixes is that all of the bathrooms are en-suite, including the third/maid's bath, and because they're positioned along an outside wall, there's no good way to convert one to a hall bath without carving a big gash out of a bedroom."

Well, you can't complain about the maids bath being en-suite: have you seen maids baths not en-suite? (unless there's not maids room and it's JUST a maid's bath). But also, this is often the difference between the "A or B" units in a building and the "C, D, etc" units. most prewar buildings (especially WEA A- to strong B buildings) is that the A and B units (facing WEA) aren't the same quality (architecturally speaking) as the "leftovers". In almost every building aside from the top 5 avenue, 1 or 2 per floor gems, the architect first "built' the 2 (or 3) "good" units, and then did the best he or she could with the rest of the lot. This is one of the reasons I always rail against the "$PSF" metrics. Even within the same building, you can have 2 equal sized units, but one is much better than the other. I'll use as a typical example 885 WEA, where the B classic 6 and the C classic 6 are miles apart, and with a VERY little amount of dicking around with the floorplan, becomes light years better, even though they are essentially the same SF.