Can you get a construction project off the ground in NYC without using union labor / paying off the Mafia?

may i assume you haven't lived her very long?

Patrick_Bateman, you just hit the nail on the coffin. This is one of the reasons why NYC condos are always behind schedule. In sharp contrast, Chicago is almost never behind. Highrises are going up at a rapid pace. NYC has a lot to learn from Chicago.

Second only to inadequate rapid transit, abusive construction trades unions are a key reason for NY's housing shortage (other than the enormous demand for living here; i.e. can it Cracker Boy).

But it's not so much on the wages/workrules and kickbacks/insurance side of the equation. It has much more to do with the local building code that they're primarily responsible for. One of the few constructive things that do-nothing Boston Bloomberg said he'd do was clean that code up, and bring it in line with the national code where feasible. Of course it didn't happen because he was busy grandstanding, and preparing for a Banana Republic coup d'etat.

The best not-quite-evidence of this (I heard it from a reputable source) is that construction costs (not land, not subsidies, not taxes) are nearly double in Lower Manhattan compared with Jersey City. I don't know how much of this has to do with tight quarters, demo costs and bedrock conditions, though.

Cracker Boy, are you under the impression that Chicago doesn't use union workers for construction trades? I can't think of a more heavily unionized city than Chicago. Ask Dallas and Houston.

There are plenty of projects in the city that employ the illegal day-laborer model that you seem to like, you might just have to look around a bit more. The high profile high budget projects often use union labor. I think you might be confusing union labor related malaise with the bureaucracy that often plagues large projects. Now, I don't want to come across as pro-union, because I too have seen that type of construction site (the best ones are when you are on the highway and waited in traffic for hours to pass a group of 10 guys sitting on their asses), but there are certainly projects that employ union labor that aren't complete pandemonium. Citi Field (the new Mets stadium for anyone that doesn't know) is union built and as far as I know has been picture perfect so far(no major cost overruns, quality construction, on-time) so there certainly are examples out there where it works.

I won't argue that the illegal day-laborer construction market is cheaper and (probably) faster, but the quality is generally terrible.

alanhart, i do know that Chicago constructions are usually on time, whereas in NYC virtually every condo is delayed.

i'm "involved" with a union condo project of fairly good size and can tell you first hand that "union made" does not guarantee quality, timeliness, or even safety. it's all marketing phooey. nice slogans and nice taglines. but don't even begin to talk about Chicago to me without using unions in the same sentence. or san francisco. or boston. or, best of all, jersey.

ubbatubba - do you guys have to pay a "mob tax" so as to ensure, that say, the project's light fixtures arrive on site unbroken, elevators are working, and pipes are correctly fitted, etc., or is everything on the up-and-up?

Why would you want unskilled illegals building condos? Do you want to have buildings collapsing left and right? Illegals should not even be building McMansions in the suburbs, let alone high rises!

"In sharp contrast, Chicago is almost never behind. Highrises are going up at a rapid pace."

Just as long as you pad Richard Daley's and Tony Rezko's pockets.

> Also, why do unions have such a strong foothold in the northeast?

Because the politicians are in their pockets. The NYS legislature or city council can't get elected without the unions. They stopped all the big $$$ from private companies, but unions can give unlimited amounts.

Guess how THAT works out?

You can't get elected without greasing the unions in this town.

Guess how the UFT managed to get a bill signed into law a tenure rule saying that PERFORMANCE could not be factored into tenure process.

All the politicians are on the take from the unions...

oh, and specifically, look up "living wage" agreements. Basically, you can't get any rezoning or government projects approved without "living wage" clauses. Which means the jobs will go union.

The union can't get people to unionize anymore, so they pay off the politicians to do it for them.