Which is the better apartment?

I like fifth better and I'd rather live on fifth than Christopher.

Fifth, for sure! The location is far superior. I like the layout of the Christopher street apartment better, though. In the fifth, I would prefer to have the Master bedroom away from the living space, although waking up to west village views is nice!

Any more advice here? The talk on this site is so focused uptown....

Seriously... It's so heavily weighted UWS. Who wants to live on the UWS besides Sean & Madonna?

I like 'em both, but here are the arguments in favor of 5th:

1) bigger kitchen
2) laundry area
3) one extra room

ali r.
{downtown broker}

I far prefer the layout of the 5th Ave apt. The kitchen is larger and more open, the unit has better exposures and likely gets more light (I mean, what's with that terrible long hallway in the Christopher St apt?). It's a typical classic layout that seems very elegant and grand. And hey, it's got a laundry room!

I do agree with cccharley that 5th is a far better place to live than Christopher (I lived on 5th and 10th for years). Every mode of transport is easily accessible--every single subway line is steps from your location, including all the east side lines, the Broadway lines, ABCDEF, NRW. So is the PATH. Christopher St feels very crowded, especially in the summer. It's a real scene and can get loud. That, to me, is a major drawback.

One thing you might want to check on re: the 5th Ave apt--the pics suggest it looks over the Presby church. It's likely you will hear the bells. If that's something you think might be bothersome, I'd recommend finding out how often they ring (daily? just on Sundays?).

Bram - I lived on 9th and 6th for 15 years. I have 2 friends who live on 10th bw 5-6 - one owns a big brownstone. We must have crossed paths. I miss the old hood

Oh--another thing to mention--a 5th Ave address is considered extremely desirable and is, in itself, a value add. Something to consider.

I was amazed to get top dollar when subletting my 5th Ave co-op--I had several applications because folks wanted that 'prestigious' address.

happyrenter, 5th ave is a bit of a quiet sanctuary compared to Christopher street which can be noisy and even a bit dangerous towards the river. That Christopher street building is definitely terrific, but there are better.

Here is an overpriced apt to watch: http://www.prudentialelliman.com/989202
Makes the 5th Ave one seem even more attractive...

ccharley--I lived at 24 5th (actually 5th and 9th--not 10th). Were you in the building that housed Balducci's? I miss the hood too, though love the UWS.

How about this:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/326585-coop-69-fifth-avenue-flatiron-new-york

I went to the open house yesterday. Location is certainly not as nice, much of the apt overlooks 14th st. But if you need the full 3rd bedroom, it has that advantage over 51 Fifth. They did a very nice job with it inside (its two apts put together), there are tons of closets, and of course its cheaper than the other 2 (already come way down in price and I suspect there's more to go). The kitchen's a bit odd in style.

I also saw this:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/356433-condo-60-east-13th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

This is a very nice loft if you can deal with the 2 small bedrooms. The main room is really big and nice and the master is a good size with a nice bathroom. Again location is an issue here as it overlooks the union sq movie theater, a very busy corner. Monthly costs are low too, although the broker said they are going up. Obviously the price is higher but it just went on the market, hasn't had the price chops that seemingly every property goes through these days.

I went to several others but these were the only ones I thought were compelling.

Thanks for the advice. So no votes for Bing and Bing on Christopher Street, huh? You're probably right. The Christopher Street apartment has much better views--real open, Empire State views, lots of sky, from every room. 51 5th has a nice exposure overlooking the church on 5th avenue, but the other exposure is across 12th street right into a building.

I agree that the insane prices still being asked at 299 west 12th make a real classic six on 5th avenue seem very appealing. I know it's picky, but I prefer classic sixes with a bedroom wing--where you don't have to go through the living room to get to the bedroom, so that's a negative at 51 5th.

One more question: the 51 5th apartment vs.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/345360-coop-30-fifth-avenue-greenwich-village-new-york

happyrenter, I completely agress about wanting a classic six w/out a bedroom attached to the living room. I would convert the master bedroom to a library/dining room by knocking out the wall and putting up some doric columns, and turn the library into a huge master suite with an office where the maid's room is located. The only problem is that the kitchen would be far away from the dining room.

The 30 Fifth probably has the best layout, but requires some serious renovation - I have no idea why someone would murder a classic pre-war design - there are plenty of loft spaces where they could have achieved that aesthetic.

You should also keep your eye on 2 Horatio Street for new listings.

CCDevi: 69 Fifth is across 14th street in a completely different world. The loft is nice, but I think happyrenter prefers classic pre-war.

Bram- yes I lived in 69. I was very stupid to sell in 2000. I moved up briefly to the UWS in 88 - not my style. My friend still owns in 24 5th- a 2 br - I used to go to Mary Lou's a lot - did you ever make it there?

Yeah, I used to go to Mary Lou's. Your friend's lucky--24 5th has recently undergone a major reno and looks amazing. The 2-beds in that place are awesome.

Buster, I thought about making that change at 51 5th, it's a possibility but it still isn't particularly elegant. 30 5th requires a lot of work, that's right, and the views are not great--the back side of the apartment faces an interior courtyard. Gosh, isn't it a shame that most of the great prewar apartments are stuck up in the boring old uptown neighborhoods? :).

CC and Bram, are you really fans of 24 5th? It still feels like a converted hotel to me, with those endless, dark hallways, and small apartments.

I agree with the idea to keep your eye on 2 Horatio -- but remember that complex has an "old" building and a "new" building, so depending on how much of a prewar fanatic you are you might only like half of what's available.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Happy - I haven't seen the renovations so I can't comment. The smaller apts had ridiculously small kitchens. Bram - 2brs are nice and I know they recently renovated -it's actually her mom's place, she used to rent a 1 br as well. Crazy building. I'll have to check out the renos on the building when I get down there again. Wow I loved that block. I really miss it with all this talk

does 2 horatio have classic sixes?

Not natural ones that I know of, you'd be looking at a combo.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

"69 Fifth is across 14th street in a completely different world."

buster, I sorta know what you mean, I've lived in that area for quite awhile, but you're on the same ave and its two blocks, I think you're statement is a little over the top.

{{CC and Bram, are you really fans of 24 5th? It still feels like a converted hotel to me, with those endless, dark hallways, and small apartments.}}

Yeah, it'll never lose that hotel feeling completely, though with the new renos (updated hallways, completely restored lobby per landmark regulations, new gym in basement) which have brought back it from shabby and faded to gorgeous deco elegance.

By the way, I don't consider the hallways any longer/darker than those in any other larger pre-war building. Yes, the studios have the typical tiny 5 x 5 kitchens, though many owners have updated with Cali kitchens. Since it was built as a residential hotel you won't find classic layouts with the larger apartments, which tend to be combos.

lose the words 'with' and 'which' in graph 2 of the above post...

your

ccdevi, we're all so diligent about correcting our grammar mistakes! :-)

ccdevi - I don't think it's over the top at all - Lower Fifth from Washington Square to 13th street is extremely residential. Once you cross 14th it's much louder, much more traffic, and much more commercial. Also, given the heights and spacings of the buildings, the area has much less natural light. It's geographically close, but a completely different neighborhood.

Might the building on 12th be quieter and get better light? Sure.

My point is that its hard to call a building 2 blocks away a different neighborhood. How is your life different walking out your door everyday at 12th and 5th rather than 14th and 5th. Do you not walk somewhere you otherwise would have because of the two block difference? Its not like you sit on your front porch in either of these two buildings. All the same stuff is more or less equally convenient to these two buildings. If you're talking about a different class of people, maybe, that I can't comment on.

Not that I'm saying there's no difference (there certainly is a perceived difference, as evidenced by your comments, that might affect how people think about your home and affect its value), I just thought a "different world" was awfully strong given that I could hit a pitching wedge from one to the other.

union square is a zoo- anything on 14th street proper is really loud. My gf had to move out and rent her apt bc she couldn't stand the noise. I wasn't always like this. Nice place to visit but I'd rather live down or up from there

there's a school zoning issue too. Though I'm not making any legal representations, lower Fifth below 14th is pretty solidly PS 41 - a fairly prized elementary school -- and Fifth and 14th isn't necessarily.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

actually now you have to lottery bw 41 and 3 because of overcrowding

"actually now you have to lottery bw 41 and 3 because of overcrowding"

thats right. I know 10 West 15th is in the 41/3 zone, so being above 14th is not key (thats not to say this building is in the zone, because it is on the other side of 5th).

As for the noise, absolutely, its very noisy there.