Wrongheaded renovations can reduce values

Every design cliche of the new condo craze of 2006 reincarnated in an upper west side prewar, for today's discerning buyer.

According to Miller Samuel, hasn't happened this century.

http://www.millersamuel.com/charts/gallery-view.php?ViewNode=1168397658DtFJU&Record=9

I never can understand why people buy a prewar apartment only to schlock it up with tacky 'architectural' renos that ruin the original elegance of the place. If this is what you want, why not just purchase some cheesy new dev atrocity and leave the prewars to those of us who actually appreciate them?

Someone did a similar crap job at 385 RSD--a complete travesty if you ask me.

Ouch, wrong thread... ignore comment above

'scuse me, I believe I meant 395 RSD.

These people probably bought the apartment for, say 1.8 million (at a minimum), and spent, what. 700k on the renovation? I don't see how they get more than $1.8 million for all of that money and effort.

Well, it's still extremely overpriced. They're clearly desperately chasing the market down. What they need to do is quit f-ing around with ineffectively puny price drops and make a significant cut if they want to remain even remotely competitive in this market.

That's clearly true, Squid. But my point with this thread was that the apartment would be worth more if they had done a gentle, much cheaper renovation maintaining the original layout. You are certainly right that no matter how you slice it the price is absurd.

I've seen the apartment. The kitchen is over-the-top: impressive, but probably won't age very well. The dining room isn't bad at all, for a windowless carve-out. Good storage. The third BR created by splitting the DR is livable, though quite small. Overall, the apartment is OK, and I wouldn't say the reno reduced the value. It's obviously overpriced, but that's not surprising, considering the broker.

That's interesting. You don't think an apartment with a classic 6 layout would be more appealing to buyers? i'm surprised.

""But my point with this thread was that the apartment would be worth more if they had done a gentle, much cheaper renovation maintaining the original layout.""

Yes, I agree with you on that. Ultra high-end, tailored renos like this are also not necessarily universally appealing, so you'll likely lose prospective buyers who aren't interested in paying top dollar only to have to re-jigger everything. A more standard update would have been preferable.

happyrenter: Depends on the buyer. Basically, you're giving up the maid's room and a chunk of the foyer, and scaling down the dining room. In return, you get a huge, showplace kitchen, a nice bathroom reno and a small third bedroom in the family wing. It's not a bad trade for some buyers, especially those who don't host a lot of formal dinners and who prefer to have the kids in adjacent quarters, rather than in a maid's room behind the kitchen.

Would I do that trade, even-up? Maybe. Would I consider it a million-dollar upgrade? Clearly not.

I agree, reno is a travesty for purists. If one wants a modern look there are excellent conversions. I say keep it what it is. And in terms of kids in adjacent quaters, that's fine when they're crying at night and in the need to eat/be changed stage, but don't you think it is better for everyone to put distance once they are older? I love having a home with "wings" so the kids can be away from us at night.

Isn't this just a matter of taste? Well I guess thats obvious, some of you are just saying you don't like these people's taste. Many people don't want/like maids rooms, separate formal dining rooms, big foyers and tiny bathrooms. Now if you're one of those people, why buy a traditional place, that's a reasonable question.

The trade that W81 describes (if thats what happened, is the original layout available?) seems perfectly reasonable to me (although the kitchen does seem a little much, I would have tried to make the 3rd bedroom bigger by taking away from the kitchen or perhaps intruding further into the dining room), but of course I'm a downtown loft kind of guy.

ccdevi, that's the point. these people spent close to a million bucks to make a trade that even those who LIKE the apartment might or might not do for free (see west81st). yes, it's a matter of taste. the point is that if this is their taste they didn't need to spend a fortune to mutilate a perfectly nice layout in order to achieve it. and more to the point, they can't expect other people to compensate them for a misguided adventure in renovation.

I think what you're saying is that they could have found a place like the end result for less money then what it cost them all in to create this.

perhaps, I'm not sure how we could know that given everything I think we don't know: what they paid, cost of reno, when they bought and renovated, other factors like did they for some reason desperately want to live in this building or right in this area where perhaps there weren't more modern 3 brs available.

"they can't expect other people to compensate them for a misguided adventure in renovation"

well again unless you have information I don't have, they presumably did it for themselves, not with an eye towards an ultimate sale, and of course the misguided characterization is a matter of taste.

happyrenter: It's possible that you're overstating the financial difference between the renovation they did and the renovation they needed to do. If the apartment was in estate condition, bringing it up to date - including new baths and kitchen - might have cost anywhere from $100-400K. I don't know what they actually spent. The kitchen is the only really lavish part. I'd be surprised if they put a million into it. There's also the tricky dividing line between costs of renovation and decoration. They can take the furniture with them.

It's not my style, but I see nothing aesthetically offensive here.

I know this building very, very well and high 2s has never been broached for either (identical) classic 6 lines that face 79th. In the very best of times, unrenovated "estate" condition 6es got 2.3/2.4.

ccdevi, i am sure that you are correct that the did it for themselves, and there is nothing wrong with blowing a lot of money on a renovation for yourself. if they love it, fantastic. the point is that for whatever reason they have to sell. now they expect a large premium for this renovation, which, IMHO, actually reduced the value of the apartment. 'misguided' is not a matter of taste alone; now that they are selling, it is a matter for the market.

Happyrenter: I don't think they have to sell, and it's quite possible that they won't.

As for the ultimate decision resting with the market, you're right about that, and it may be a while before the market's decision is clear.