Appreciating over 200% ?

Did you tell the broker/owner you were aware of the 2007 sales price? I came across something similar (but not with a broker/owner, which is part of your interesting point, and certainly not at a 300% increase). A 2bd/2bth in 400 E 56th closed in January 2008 for $1,225,000. It was renovated -- seemingly top of the line -- and put back on the market in July at $1.675. The owner appears to be a contractor, and I wonder if he purchased it to flip, which would be a mystery since that building ordinarily would never tolerate such a step. It is a nice enough cookie-cutter in a post-war (with retirement-community feeling). Has a dining area and an otherwise good city view marred by junk on roof of building across the street. When I commented that there is no way the renovation could have cost nearly 1/2M, the broker seemed stunned that I knew the January 2008 sales price. Do brokers not know that everything is available to the savvy buyer these days? Price now is down to $1.5, which still is way out of step with today's market, even with the improvements.

Still, this doesn't hold a candle to the property you cite.

I didn't look up the records until I got home from the viewing. Though the apartment is quite nice, we decided to pass on it. However I kind of wish we did want it so I could go back to the broker and point out all these details. Would just be so very curious to see what the response would be. Plus there is opportunity there for lots of negotiation, provided he's serious about selling.

Funny to me that the broker was surprised you knew about the previous sale. I can only assume they don't think many people know about the availability of public records via ACRIS. What annoyed me probably more than that was this "No brokers" crap. Unless I'm crazy we could bring a broker of our own in this circumstance since it is already not a co-broke situation. He could have meant buyers with brokers ok, but brokers on their own, not so much. I doubt it though...

That said, if he lists another property we're interested in, I'm sure we'll still go see it. With research.

I don't understand why it's important what the seller paid for the apartment. It's what he wants to sell it for. Would you have blinked if you didn't know what the original price was. There are sellers asking $1m for an apartment in manhattan and they paid $125k.

Hey, tandare, was that Sunnyside broker doing the poor seller a favor and taking the unit off his hands after convincing him it was only worth $95,000? There hasn't been anything for sale for $95,000 in Sunnyside in a decade, so that $95K price is a definite outlier.

@Julia -- you might feel relieved to know the apartment is indeed outside the comps in its general area. The original price I feel, is relevant when it occurred less than 24 months ago, *major* renovations don't were not made, the comps don't bear the price out, it was purchased on a higher swing in the market and is being sold at a lower dip. And yes, I blinked at the price before I found out he owned it. I also blinked when I learned he was the owner and broker and didn't want to have another broker involved. Had he purchased the apartment many years ago I would probably not think about it. Did you see Riley's post above?

@lowery -- I have no idea, but it is one of the broker's investment properties. It is on the less desirable side of Sunnyside, not the pre-wars on the north side. Even if it was an outlier at the time I still think his asking is out of line with properties in the area. Good luck to him though. Nice apartment, though it has been on the market for 4+ months by my reckoning.

@lowery - actually now that I think about it, recent comps in the building are all much lower. Comps in that general area were also lower.

maybe the broker is looking to sell at 279k and still make a lot of money.

@PMG - this is absolutely true.

Riley, when you say that the building has a "retirement community feel" do you reference the building and its improvements or the residents. I once went spoke to a broker about a building and I asked about the ages of the people who lived there and his response was "between 75 and death!" That was the end of that listing for me.

I don't know sunnyside all that well (although lived there briefly in 2002), but $79K for a 2-bedroom there in 2007 seems way, way low. So I agree with lowery - something weird here.

newbuyer99 -- it was $95,000 in 2007. Asking $379,000 now. The 95,000 is roughly average what apts sold for in 2007 in that building. The common areas were recently redone, but doubt that changes value that extremely. The asking price is out of line with comps in that specific part of the Sunnyside/Woodside border.

I just share the story here as given the crazy real estate scene over the last few years, I thought it was interesting in this going-down market. At any rate for the right person, and at a better price, it will make a lovely apartment!

Ok, I have to retract something, I rechecked building sales comps - the $95,000 was lower than other recent sales in 2007. However I also redid current comps, and the asking price is still out of line. Going back 6 months the recent sales in a half-mile radius go from: $115,000 to $390,000.

The $390,000 is on the top floor (12th floor) of the Berkley Towers, which is not a comp in area, building amenities, style or neighborhood.

I don't think there's been a floorplan listed, but I am guessing 2-bedroom is anywhere from 700-1200 SF. So $95K (or even $115K) would be well under $200 psf, and perhaps under $100 psf. Forgive me for being skeptical.

Skippy2222,it's interesting that it is both the age group of the residents and the nature of the building. Clearly, it houses an older crowd (one can sit in the lobby, even on weekends, and seldom see anyone under 70ish, other than staff) but there is something about the common areas that feels dated and a little like a high-end senior complex in Boca. No banners promoting the early bird specials, though.

newbuyer99 - skeptical of the original sales price? condition of apt? The comps? The comps were via propertyshark for last 6 mo. in 1/2 mile radius, which includes Sunnyside north. Like I said before, the apartment was quite nice I was just surprised at price when we saw it and felt it exceeded the comps we've seen in the area, and then more surprised when I did some research. Regardless, will be nice place for the right buyers.

http://ottonielsenrealty.com/listingDRAKE2br4J.html

lowery / newbuyer99 -- what would be the fishy / weird things making you feel skeptical?

tandare- I think you are mistakening. That apt sold for $301,093 on 8/16/2006. If they sell for $330k they probably wont earn a dime after brokerage fees and taxes. The asking sounds about right - inflated - allowing for a 10-15% discount in the asking price. This apt was asking $399k 2 weeks ago.