In what other city can I ...

I agree - must be a great city to be a mom in. Can you imagine doing all of that in a car?? Strapping your kids into their car seats, taking them out, packing up the strollers, etc. UGH!

Absolutely. Not to mention the 15 minute commute (at any time of day or night, independent of train schedules) for the working parent/s. My four year old walks almost two miles every day, to all her afterschool activities and preschool.

Agree best city ever. Longrun NYC Real Estate is very desirable. Have a relative bought on 5th and 85th in the 80's sold it in the 90's. Still regrets it to this day.

That's great nyc10023 - good for the kids to walk. I see so many obese kids outside of NYC. It disgusts me. How many kids do you have?

In what other city can I walk around in downtown and see piles of garbage bags on street corners or homeless people defecating in the sidestreets? In what other city do people pay $4K/month to live in a building that would be considered subpar in almost every other U.S. city?

Only in NYC!

Rufus: yes, all that is true. But you can't get a car-free lifestyle anywhere else in North America (yes, I know about Vancouver but impractical with kids).

Riv_Drive - it's awesome living on the Upper West Side with kids. But you know that.

OK. not having to drive a car is pretty cool. but the city is just too dirty, and the apartments are substandard. this is why most Americans would never live in NYC.

I agree - I love the city lifestyle with kids. We live in Murray Hill/Kips Bay and have everything we need outside our door. So so easy. I can't imagine having to drive everywhere

Not dirty - colored with charecter!

Rufus- many of us live here BECAUSE most Americans would never live here. YEs- call us elitist or "fake Americans" if you're using Palin-isms.

nyc10023- I live on the UWS, but no kids yet. Maybe in the next couple of years.

Location, location, location. Yes, the city is dirty and most apartments are substandard. But where have you lived in the U.S.? Or Canada? Or the UK? Or Europe? I'll raise you UWS vs. Chelsea (the London one). I love the Left Bank (but I don't speak French). And I don't have to go around dumbing down conversation or drive to strip malls after strip malls or shop for vast quantities of toilet paper in Costo or drive to work out (what a concept).

NYC10023 - you had me up until your last point. I am a NY'r (my whole life) and I have lived on the UWS since '91 and my grandparents lived on 84th and Bway so I have seen it over the years. But with regards to conversation I think you are just off.

Here on the UWS you cannot have an educated conversation with anyone about anything with political correct tint to it. It just won't happen. Differences of opinion are not permitted. While I live here, much of my business is conducted with the rest of the country (everywhere, south, mid-west, west, TX, New England) and I can tell you that for the shear tolerance of differing points of view the rest of the country beats the UWS hands down. And just because those people wouldn't recognize a Puccini aria from Mozart's Requiem does not mean that they are "dumbed down".

People have different choices. Theirs is for space, lawns, trees and a much (MUCH) cheaper lifestyle. Some prefer a slower pace, some prefer cleaner streets/air, and some just don't want a neighbor who has some semblance of what goes on behind closed doors. Try even to explain to some of these people that there are a whole staff of people (doormen, etc.) who know everything that goes on in your life. To some it is just plain icky even though we have built up a callous around that part of our awareness.

But I resent those who choose to demean those who make different choices. Chances are they don't really know those people at all.

""Can you imagine doing all of that in a car?? Strapping your kids into their car seats, taking them out, packing up the strollers, etc. UGH!""

Yeah, but at least in the 'burbs you don't have to haul said strollers up and down endless flights of subway stairs... Those buggers are heavy!

> Rufus- many of us live here BECAUSE most Americans would never live here.

Bingo. I love that people like Rufus can't afford here.
I love the midwest and south white trash doesn't generally make it here.
I love that LA folks are generally scared of NYC.

I thought I'd dig some elements of suburban life, but now that traffic is probably worse in those places (massive parking lots and roads just bring more cars) and just so much time is wasted. Worst case, you can just walk where you need to in Manhattan. And there are things along the way. But this half your life in a non-moving car shit, I just can't take that.

BTW, I actually agree with 10023. AvUWS, I don't know your specifics, but perhaps you're getting a slanted view. I've lived in probably 20 cities in the US, and I've probably been to 100 of the major ones. Some working, some gigging, some just being a tourist.

And I just don't agree.

Granted, UWS is probably the worst place in town for conversation, but it doesn't even compare.

LA is absolutely the worst place for a real conversation.

Heh! There's benign tolerance for different points of view only because they barely know how to justify their own belief system. I'm probably one of the more conservative people on the Upper West Side. I don't like liberal sheep much either and I would generously admit that there are cultured people in a great many enclaves BUT don't seriously try to make the argument that it's more cultured in same random suburb in anywhere USA.

Your grandparents live at the Alameda? Fine building.

Yep, the Alameda. And I never equated a great conversation with a conversation about culture. People can have diverse interests and I find that good knowledge about history and civics is as available (and depending on the subject, sometimes moreso) outside of the Upper West Side. As to justifying a belief system, the simple answer is that people here on the UWS simply can't. Partly that is because they believe that different belief systems from theirs are prima facie incorrect. That kind of limits their ability to have a good conversation.

I learned a long time ago that on the right people are more prone to understand the viewpoint of the left but disagree with the assumptions that lead to it while on the left they are more prone to ascribe the viewpoint of the right to ignorance and/or evil. (This has actually been proven in psychological studies of liberal vs conservative people.)