Thinking of moving to Queens

Negative is in the eye of the beholder.

To me, Queens is a negative. To someone else with a different set of priorities, it is a great place to live.

As for whether spending $250K on a house in Queens is a good decision--that depends entirely on your finances, goals and other variables to which we are not privy.

Negative or positive, it's more about what your bank account and income can bear. Generally, Queens is cheaper than Manhattan. I'd choose Sunnyside over Forest Hills because there's much more potential in that area as an investment. FH has already matured and Sunnyside is beginning to take off due to its proximity to Manhattan and LIC.

Thanks for the feedback. I would rather pay for an apartment outright than take on a mortgage. My finances are ok, but I am not in finance or any related sector. I make just shy of $100k, so that's why the price range is attractive.

I know outside of LIC, Queens is poorly received. Can anyone tell me about the quality of living there, or is it just a first destination for immigrants? I will check into Sunnyside and have also started looking at Woodside, but the supply in those areas is very low.

agree with the Sunnyside comment. a) it's already an established neighborhood so you don't need to worry about it completely crumbling b) brokers have been trying to market it as LIC for a few years now.

that can be good or bad. While it is still significantly cheaper than the LIC waterfront, there may be a certain amount of hype that was factored in. Anyhow, I think that Sunnyside is a very nice neighborhood with plenty of great restaurants.

I will check it out and visit there this weekend. I am from NJ originally, so not familiar with Queens. I always thought Woodside and Sunnyside were the same area, but will check it out.

I have noticed that real estate agents are light years apart from Manhattan to Queens. They don't market their listings or have floorplans or even internet friendly access as Manhattan brokers. It makes it more difficult to look for apartments. The brokers I have called about listings in Forest Hills, Rego Park and Kew Gardens all have heavy Russian accents and are not very friendly or forthcoming with the particulars about the apartment. I asked one broker to email me the listing and she told me "what's to email? Apartment cost $245,000 and maintenance is $690. That's all. Is nice apartment."

I appreciate the feedback, as the locals don't seem to be too friendly.

Just checked out Sunnyside, not much inventory for 1/1. More apartment rentals and 3/4 family homes. Any links to inventory there, either co-ops or condos?

If you're concerned about neighborhoods that are first destination for immigrants you may want to shy away from Sunnyside, Woodside and DEF Elmhurst. I'll stay opinion neutral on that point -- just letting you know what's what.

Forest Hills, Kew Gardens (forget Rego Park) are farther out but nicer and have more inventory so probably easier to get a good price. Having said that I'd rather commute on any of the express and local trains that run through that hub, even if it takes an extra ten minutes, than get on the 7 train which you'd have to every day in Sunnyside and most of Woodside.

You're price range is realistic but honestly, don't pay more than 200K, not now.

Forest Hills and Kew Gardens are both very stable residential hoods. IMO a better bet than Sunnyside, but I'm not the type of person that is really that concerned about how great their "investment" is.

If "whiteness" matters, the place to be is on the north side of Sunnyside. Many young professionals have moved into the neighborhood.

The proximity to Manhattan is really more of a factor to me as I see real estate as an investment as well as a home. FH is definitely more established and is more posh right now, but Sunnyside doesn't trail FH much in terms of quality of life. FH used to be filled with small independently owned shops and now it has been so commercialized that it lost much of its character.

Don't forget, Forest Hills and Kew Gardens have the LIRR, which cuts your travel into the city to 20 minutes. You can find nice 1 bedrooms in Kew Gardens for $225,000

I once did a deal with Linda Carlo (there are two Lindas) at Terrace Realty, which has a strong presence in Forest Hills, and thought she was very nice and very honest. You can tell her Ali Rogers from DG Neary sent you.

FYI, "Forest Hills" is used as a brand name for half of Queens, but the heart of it -- the area around Forest Hills Gardens -- is one of the prettiest neighborhoods in the city.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

LIC is the best option if you can afford it. However, if you are looking for value and space, then Forest Hills is the best. Look at the luxury coops near the express train 71st and Continental. The express train is definitely a must. Forest Hills Gardens is great, but closer to LIC pricing with older model apartments.

Some of the better coops require 35% down and 6 month reserves.

Forest Hills is not the name for half of Queens; it has specific boundaries.

All the 'hoods mentioned in this thread have plenty of restaurants and basically good shopping. You can order food in, have your dry cleaning done, buy groceries, hardware, etc., yadda-dadda....

Sunnyside has always been closer to Manhattan than the others, but has had ups and downs, and it got pretty nasty in the '90s for a while. None of the transportation is as convenient as you may be led to believe. Traffic bottlenecks into too few subway tunnels, and surface transit is a nightmare. One thing few people look at is parks - picture yourself living in Sunnyside and then ask yourself where you'd go for a nice stroll to enjoy the day: you have the mammoth cemeteries, or .... mammoth cemeteries, or ..... well, geesh, despite after having lived there 15 years, I can't think of anyplace to walk to from Sunnyside that isn't ugly as sin. North side of QB is more difficult to park than south side. There used to be lots of low level drug dealing in the high 40s south of QB, with the front steps of a public school there a long-favorite marketplace.

tiberon - your observations about the relative difficulties of even finding the listings in Sunnyside / Woodside are correct. Lots of mom and pop places that do plenty of business and apparently see no need to be high tech. Craigslist and NYTimes will be your friend besides slogging through the non-user friendly sites of some offices.

Here are some brokers to look into for Sunnyside/Woodside:
Welcome Home Real Estate www.welcomehomerealestate.biz -- great people there
Paul Colville at Esther Flynn Real Estate -- 718-392-8995 / 347-224-5715
Weichert also has many Sunnyside/Woodside listings - www.queenshomesource.com (718)204-7425
Sun-Wood Real Estate
Otto Nielsen

Try looking in Celtic Park. http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/reo/943865091.html

Sunnyside is a great neighborhood. I've lived here for years. Large Irish community as well as Turkish, Ecuadorean and so on... Good restaurants. Each side of Qns Blvd has a different feel. There are parks in Sunnyside (look on the north side of Qns Blvd, though they are not like Prospect Park or Flushing Meadows by any means).

I just saw some modestly priced places on Corcoran.com. I suggest that you start "commuting" over to Queens after work to get a feel for the area & the commute. Have dinner, walk around, look for a cafe, talk to people. Go over there on the weekend so that you get a feel for the area & the people & for whether that's a place you want to live. It's like a skein of yarn which you'll unravel little by little. Have fun, good luck, & let us know what happens!

parts of queens are great places to start a family; the areas you listed are good, sunnyside is not.

Check out www.crossingsrealty.com for forest hills and kew gardens. The website blows, but they have quite a few on there.

I appreciate all of the input, even if it is mixed.
I agree, venturing out into the neighborhoods is the best way to get a real and unfiltered sense of the area.
My priority is a safe and affordable area that is accessible to the city by public transit.
Probably going to narrow my search to Woodside, Sunnyside, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens. Those areas are safe (crime stats on nyc.gov/nypd), affordable, and served relatively well by public transportation.
I know quality of life is not what Manhattan is, but the prices are 70% cheaper.

Sunnyside has been heavily pushed here, but I really am not crazy about the transportation there. Yes, it is the closest to Manhattan, but is only served by the 7 train. I am no fan of the 7 train, taken it many times to Shea.

I am going out this weekend and am hoping that some of the referrals for brokers will pan out. Obviously, I am only finding rude Russian agents on my listing searches for apartments that were sold months ago.

Thank again.

tiburon - have you thought about Jackson Heights? I've never been to the area, but I do know of a 2 bed, 1 bath, 1st fl coop (in your budget) coming on the market soon. It needs updating. The commute to Manhattan is easy as it's w/in walking distance to the subway. Summary: My suggestion if you're looking in Queens, is to consider Jackson Heights. From what I know, there may be some deals for you.

Most of their stuff isn't on Streeteasy (no idea why not) but I see a 1200 sqft 2 bedroom for $269k with 10% down and no board approval (sponsor sale).

If you can live with the idea of being 20 minutes away on the LIRR, I think you live with the fact that this apartment would be $1 million more expensive in the city.

IMHO, jackson Heights is a pit. I go there about every other week because next to Flushing, it has the best concentration of ethnic food in the city. I wouldn't want to live there. Google Map Forest Hills and Kew Gardens and check out forest park. They have a golf course, fer chrissakes!

positivecarry, what apt are you talking about that's a 2bed for $269,000. Any listing info? Link?

I ruled out Jackson Heights a while back as I don't fit in with the feel of the area.

Go to crossingsrealty.com and look at the kew gardens coops for sale. Like I said, the website blows, but their inventory is not listed here. They have 11 coops listed for kew gardens, and the one I'm talking about is #10.

I'd love to put a link up, but I'm posting here from my cellphone.

They say when good Manhattanites die, they go to Paris. Were you a bad Manhattanite?

Nope. I got married, and my wife pays a miniscule amount of rent. The temptation to buy a 2 bedroom for $26k down is eating me to the core, but I am doing my best to stay calm and wait for Manhattan to return to a level I find acceptable.

The 7 train is one of the most reliable lines. Just ask those in FH and Rego Park what train they had to take whenever the city got a little bit of rain. They had to transfer at Roosevelt to take the 7 because that was the only train that didn't get flooded. It also runs frequently on weekends.

If you live in FH or Kew Gardens, chances are you'll be close to the LIRR. It's only $135 for a monthly, plus your ass will thank you for a cushy ride. If you work remotely close to Penn Station it's a deal maker.

It is not difficult to find listings in Sunnyside - the local brokers there do not pay for expensive NYTimes advertising. At most they will run one ad for a listing when it's new. If you are serious about shopping there, simply get off the subway and find the local realtors and ask to see what they have. There's one on the named avenue parallel to and north of QB, and there's at least one down on Greenpoint Ave south of QB in the 40s.

One thing no one here will warn you about, perhaps because it is not an issue in their apartments, is noise. I have lived in Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan and the Bronx, in a variety of types of neighborhoods by ethnicity, income group, housing type, and Sunnyside near the Greenpoint Avenue/47th Ave playground was the noisiest. All the residents in my building complained bitterly except those whose only windows faced the inside of the block (they had no view of anything but clotheslines, however). It's accelerating motorcycles and cars belonging to teenagers showing off to the neighbors. There's also the noise from teenagers hanging out in the evenings in the playground, whether playing handball or just listening to their boomboxes. A friend of mine lived in the area of 48th Avenue near both Celtic Park and the projects and was literally driven out of her home by the all-night-long salsa music coming not only from other apartments and houses in the area but from people standing outside drinking beer any night of the week, all night long.

A Rumanian "restaurant" which was in practicality nothing more than a private social club (you won't get service if you're not Rumanian) had zillions of complaints for loud music coming out of it.

The "parks" north of QB are not parks. They are playgrounds, just like the one at Greenpoint, 47th Ave and 42nd/43rd Streets. However, it is possible to live on a quiet block near 50th Avenue and feel you are in the suburbs. Access to LIE is a charm. Crime is an issue. People do get mugged. Jackson Heights has all the same issues, but better transportation and much more expensive coops. Again, if you want peace and quiet and security, you have to be 15 minutes walking distance from subway, at least

Kew Gardens has zero of those issues. It's a mostly jewish neighborhood, with many single family homes. You should come and check it out.

The 7 train runs frequently yes, but it's SOOO unpleasant and it sounds like tiburon is already well aware of this. A brand spanking new stadium like Citifield should not have to connect to that nightmare.

So far as flooding and weekend problems, oh the 7 has plenty of those. In fact I can't think of another line that made it's riders take shuttle buses for months because of construction in Queens. More than that, having one train as opposed to a few (which you would in FH and KG -- E, F, R, V) is never advisable.

Still tiburon, you mentioned the rude Russian brokers you dealt with. Ha, well that was only the beginning--you will def be dealing with the Red Mob (no exaggeration) if you do move to FH or KG (but especially Forest Hills outside of the Gardens), so decide which groups are the lessor of all evils for you.

FH/KW is so much better than Sunnyside it shouldn't even be a question
Yes, prices could go up in Sunnyside because of proximity
but then again, maybe they won't - maybe the appreciation has already happened

My issue with KW/FH is why pay NYC tax when you are practically out of the city anyway.
Just move to the burbs - better schools, virtually same distance, much much lower tax.
It's like people that live in Bayside (granted it's a bit further). NYC tax really makes it unattractive to live in the more distant parts of Queens or Brooklyn.

I personally think that Sunnyside is great. There are plenty of perfectly delightful quiet streets specifically around 46th street down in the direction of Skillman. I would also consider Astoria before KW/FH.

Admittedly it is a personal preference.

People live in Bayside because the property taxes are MUCH lower than those in the suburbs. Also, the schools are excellent. District 26 consistently scores top in the city. It beats District 2 every time in standardized tests.

afmarino--exactly. If by suburbs you mean Long Island, property taxes are higher. Plus quality of life is higher in Bayside/Douglaston than a lot of parts of LI.

LI is not the only suburb in the area. Westchester, CT, Jersey. Granted it's expensive...you're telling me that schools and quality of life are better in Bayside than Great Neck????

It depends upon what part of Great Neck and what part of Bayside you are comparing. That it too general of a question to answer. Both of these places have areas with sprawling homes and areas with apartments.

is too general not it too general

It sounds like everyone here is right to an extent. You really need to examine where you are in your life. I moved to Sunnyside with hopes to be close to Manhattan for work. Seriously, my commute was better than some areas on the far UE or UW side. I don't belive in a long commute as it is time you will NEVER get back. That was fine as a young professional. Now that we have the means and have decent dual incomes, we moved into Manhattan and love the convenience of being even closer to work.

still, to my point. nice part of great neck compared to nice part of bayside and bad part of great neck compared to bad part of bayside. Take either comparison and compare the fact that you have no city tax in great neck - i can't imagine that property taxes are too far off either.City tax is expensive ... I think the top tax bracket pays 4% of their income. I personally am OK with paying the city tax but I would also not live that far out.

I believe property taxes are higher than the city tax. Taxes on equivalent houses in Great Neck and Bayside would be about $3,500 for Bayside vs. $12,000 for Great Neck.

Even within these neighborhoods, there is a huge difference. For example, FH gardens is nice if you are buying a 3mm home, but if you are buying an apartment, everything is old and gross (the price reflects that). On the north side of queens blvd east of 71st, FH is nicer. If you are north and west of 71st toward Rego Park, it has more of an immigrant population (mostly russian jews) and is less nice.

If you are zoned for PS 196, you will notice prices are higher and people are different. PS 196 is ranked higher or equal to PS 6 in most standardized test scores. The area attracts young professionals with small children. FH is primarily white and asian. Within the PS 196 zone, you pay 10-20% more than outside this zone (e.g. south side of queens blvd. and east of 71st).

@lowery -- It would seem our experiences of Sunnyside couldn't be more different!

A few examples: Like you, I've lived in several boroughs in several neighborhood that varied by ethnic/socioeconomic, building density and type of construction. Sunnyside has been the quietest.

With regards to the playground at 47th & Greenpoint, I have heard the same complaints. That said, I live 2 blocks from Qns Blvd, north side, and it is SILENT here. In the summer at night, we hear crickets. I have friends in the 40s on the same side of Qns blvd and they report the same thing. Depends where you live as well as some in Celtic Park who say it is blissfully quiet there. Now perhaps they live on a different side from your friend but I'm sure individual experiences vary. I also lived in Astoria years ago and by far, that was the noisiest apartment I have ever lived in - the street traffic was awful (even on that little side street) but no one else I knew in the area lived on a noisy street.

True, you're right they are really more playgrounds than parks, as I said not like Flushing Meadows or Prospect Park by any stretch of the imagination! The Doughboy Park on 51st Street is pretty quiet though - facilities for kids, but also a track and has an sitting area thats quiet.

As for crime, in all my years here we've never encountered a problem, nor have any of our friends/acquaintances. I don't doubt it happens, we've just been fortunate.

I think what people, myself included, are referring to with the brokers is that unlike other neighborhoods where brokers list their properties pretty widely and you can do a preliminary search from the comfort of your home, on the internet (many don't put any listing info online or have websites) -- in Sunnyside you have to walk to each office and check in and phone them all repeatedly. Not that it is impossible.... it's just not as convenient.

As always it is enlightening to hear the different experiences people have of the same neighborhood!

I'm with you Tandare It sounds as if lowery is talking about a completely different neighborhood than The Sunnyside I live in, which is also the north side. Seems like he is talking about how the neighborhood might have been 20 or 30 years ago.

@fancygirl -- another Sunnysider! Nice to 'meet' you.

So did you end up checking out any of the 'hoods mentioned?