Williamsburg and Northside Piers

went for a viewing last week, second tower will be done in 14months, and when it's up it will 80% block the 1st one!!
over inflated prices 800-900 and more psf.
not worth it.

"80% block" is... imprecise? plain wrong? how can one rectilinear building block 80% of another's site lines. They have no reason to drop prices before closings.

Here's an overhead layout. There's going to be awesome views from lotsa places. Maybe not as nice as the E and D lines at Northside #1. But the north-north-east facing units are going to have an awesome view over the park, queens, midtown, queensboro, hudson, bronx...

http://www.w-architecture.com/projects/the_edge/gallery/6.jpg

As much as everyone hates on the towers, other than being pricey and architecturally lame, they are pretty rad. If I had the money, a little riverside-view slice of of my favorite metropolis would definitely be worth it to me.

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but what's with "stevexjh"? I don't like it, too confusing.

Here's the right overhead... (The edge image above is superimposed to give an aproximate idea of sight lines for #2)

http://djradon.com/images/northside_piers2_the_edge.jpg

WillyB & Northside piers are very nice an overpriced. Northside piers will be rentals and will probably accept section 8 due to sales and rentals opps lack of sales and rentals, shit they might even go bankrupt. As you all know the gov't will not bail out homeowners, reducing interest rates don't mean jack, if you have a high mortgage your mortgage will continue to be high. Most owners who were given loan modifications went right back into default.

If all fails the gov't will take over Northside Piers and it will be a Mitchell Lama or NYCHA aka Da Projects LOL both which will permit a substantial amont of people with lower incomes. Northside Piers is slated to be 80% 20% which a lot of the folks on the upper floors don't agree with but its the way NYC has functioned for many years and the young Hipsters, Yuppies and "TrustFund Kids" won't change that.

Did you hear the banks were in talks of entertaining 40 and 50 year mortgages to revamp mortgages?

Do any one remember when Mayor David Dinkins was selling abandoned houses in NYC for One Dollar, yes you read correctly $1.00? This may recur because NYC is going to sink.

Someone told me million dollar homes belong in million dollar neighborhoods and when that equation is violated consequences will be paid and now the paying begins.

Why is it Governor Patterson and Mayor Bloombird are not on the same sheet of music? I will not be voting for Mayor Bloombird he sold every vacant lot in NYC all for higher inventory or supply and little too no demand.

Anyone have updated news on Northside Piers?

It seems like a huge amount of inventory in a bad market, so something has to give.

I was there in December -- the sales person was this haughty, unfriendly woman who was stupid also and didn't seem to have a clue that the real estate market was in a different place now.

what do you guys think of Northside v. the Edge? people talk about the second NS building being total garbage, although i cannot say i've visited either one myself. the pricing and common charges are a bit off-putting, although the edge seems to have amazing ammenities, if they include all that are advertised....

cj2008, I don't know the intimate details of each, but I honestly don't see a huge difference between them. Frankly, I would probably never buy in a huge condo tower, but if it's appealing to you, you certainly have your pick of the litter right now - there are lots of layouts to choose from. If you're set on living in one of these, I would throw an aggressive bid at each of them and play them against each other. I would not be surprised to see loads of concessions thrown at you, especially if you draw out negotiations for a while.

thanks for the comments bjw. i have to admit i love the views!

If you say throw a low ball bid, set them against each other....I wonder (don't know) if that is really realistic. For such a large project sooner or later (it's public info) the buying market will know if a low-ball bid is accepted, and then no buyer will ever buy above that price. So it would be a huge project altering decision to start giving large discounts. When I was at Northside they were talking maybe 10% discount to original offer price.

I don't want to be negative but it seems to me this site is full of glib statements like the one above about making a low ball bid, which assume you can easily get massive discounts , when in reality that is simply not reflected in tons of buildings.

I was there two Sundays ago, nice ground floor showroom showing the kitchen and bath....they told me that was the model apartment. Anyway nice high end fixtures/appliances Meile and marble counter tops etc....but for $872,000 for a two BED/2 Bath...... I giggled when you she told me the second tower is non negotiable and firm! The first tower still has some units left so they might be willing to bend........
Problem is there are warehouses and factories all around around right across the street plus they will not be developed for at least twenty years!

is north piers a toll brothers development? We won't see a price reflection in these Brooklyn Condos until the home builders who bought the land go bankrupt. They over speculated and over built in Brooklyn. However, something will have to give because the money just isn't there anymore to support the supply. Even if they start renting the units I don't see anything below $2700/month covering the overall cost on a per unit basis for a one or two bedroom in these condos. Nothing against Brooklyn but if they rent why would you pay $2700/month for a one-bedroom in Brooklyn when rents are at lows in Manhattan now. You might be able to negotiate the same price for something in Manhattan.

I visited the Toren and I got the same story. They are only willing to negotiate 10% below asking. I told they broker I will see you after Q1.

Yes it's Toll Brothers. They are assuming that there is an unlimited supply renters willing or able to pay astronomical rents but they will soon realize that the rental market will tank with the oversupply of Condo's gone rental which will result in bankruptcy when they can't service their debt load.

bjw--looks like the 'lowball' offer just got lower with the news this morning--excellent call! i still think the tower is great and it's getting more affordable all the time. i think some of the "J" line units were down about 20% from initial offer...

Are you saying 20% below original asking prices? When were those from?

Also, don't forget to add in the giveaways (closing costs, etc.)

"I wonder (don't know) if that is really realistic. For such a large project sooner or later (it's public info) the buying market will know if a low-ball bid is accepted, and then no buyer will ever buy above that price. So it would be a huge project altering decision to start giving large discounts. When I was at Northside they were talking maybe 10% discount to original offer price."

jim, you're partly right, as the trouble with new development is that they can negotiate on a host of other things before getting to price. It still works in your favor, but maybe not where you'd like it to the most (though the flipside of that is strong comps when you bought may reflect well when you decide to sell, though that shouldn't be anytime soon obviously!). That said, I don't think it's unrealistic to go for a lowball. Getting an accepted lowball is not as big a deal to a sponsor as you might think - individual lines are key here. If you like and target a line that hasn't sold well, your odds are probably much better.

The pricing was updated today from what I understand, at least according to curbed and streeteasy. I may have misremembered -- it was actually the B line that I noted the 20% discount.

Unit Original Price New Price % dif
24J $935,990.00 $865,990.00 -7.48%
14D $1,054,990.00 $929,990.00 -11.85%
24B $916,990.00 $719,990.00 -21.48%

Curbed reporting major price chops today...

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/02/06/northside_piers_officially_a_firesale.php

Still have a hard time believing that people are willing to buy in billyburg for more than they can rent in NYC (check out the Archstone rental reductions). I see a two bedroom like 24J costing around $5300/mo while you can rent at archstone 54/10th for for 3600 or archstone key west (UWS) for 3800/mo.

Note that Archstone buildings have generally been on the higher end of Manhattan rental prices. I don't know if Toll Bros, can chop anymore w/o defaulting on their loans, but that's the only real option I see them as having here -- looks like the earlier posters were on to something.

jmkeenan, I acknowledge that there are some people who will do anything to live in Manhattan proper. That's fine. But for many people, Williamsburg is more appealing than many Manhattan neighborhoods, and therefore it can command a bit of a premium relative to those areas. I would much rather live in WB than in much of upper Manhattan, LES/Chinatown, Financial District, the UES, and most of Midtown. Some might disagree, but I think there's enough of a contingent that legitimately prefers it.

The new pricing seems reasonable. It's what it should have been from the start. I think this strategy will work. The lowest priced two bed $680 something went in to contract almost immediately after the cut. It's not a neighborhood for me but it might get me to check it out and take another look. I still prefer the downtown brooklyn area and these prices are in line with downtown bklyn pricing.

> But for many people, Williamsburg is more appealing than many Manhattan neighborhoods, and therefore
> it can command a bit of a premium relative to those areas

You can say the same of New Jersey, too. But thats not going to make it more expensive than Manhattan.

Some people might prefer it, but the masses won't + INCREDIBLE additions to inventory... and thats what drives markets. Add in the flight from fringe that happens in downturns, WB gets a double whammy.

Everyone has their preferences, but Manhattan is insanely expensive (even now) for a reason. And most of that does not apply to Brooklyn.

There are people who prefer to live in Cleveland, too...

"You can say the same of New Jersey, too. But thats not going to make it more expensive than Manhattan."

Not really; sure some people like NJ, but my point is that WB is already preferable to parts of Manhattan, and it's already more expensive than those areas. I would certainly not call it ultra prime, but northside WB is definitely not fringe, despite your remarks.

> my point is that WB is already preferable to parts of Manhattan, and it's already more expensive
> than those areas.

Than Washington Heights? Inwood? Is this the argument you are making?

jmkeenan - i spent over 7 figures to live in williamsburg. i just love it. the people, the restaurants, the music and art scenes, mccarren, the shops and salons, on and on. i walk home from my office in soho which is wonderful (about 50 minutes). so, i not only could rent in manhattan, i could buy there obviously too. i really have grown to dislike manhattan even. it just seems really corporate.

nyc10022, yes, those are two examples. I would also throw in Harlem and a good chunk of the LES, at least.

wisco, I wouldn't call Manhattan "corporate," or at least not all of it. There are some great neighborhoods that have maintained a neighborhoody vibe. But as a fellow WB resident, I agree, there's everything you need right there, and it's a great neighborhood.

Hi Wisco. How do you commute to Manhattan? Do you use the L train?

Thanks a lot