Ok Stevejhx, YOU WIN! We Lose!

Wow. That's amazing. And it's a prime location. Hold on to your hats! The roller coaster is about to drop!

"INCREDIBLY LOW PRICE TO OFFSET HIGH MT!"

Still VASTLY overpriced with maintenance of $1,600 a month.

When it gets down to $75,000, we'll be getting closer. Then the monthly cost would be about $1,900 a month.

Still pricey, but not bad.

Not a bad price.

Before anyone pops the wine cork, please look at the maintencne first. Unfortunately, it's not pretty!

agree with stevejhx still too high because of the maintenance.

That building has some strange listings. A 900ish sf convertible 2 for 555K, I think, with lower maint. than this unit. 16 rent stabalized occupied units for sale as a block. etc.

The obvious question is what a similar studio would rent for. I have no idea.

If it's anything under $2K, these sellers are in big trouble, and stories from the 90s about studios changing hands for a dollar may become relevant again, at least in extreme cases like this.

Looks like an SRO.

The maintenance is really worrisome - this really underscores how relevant maintenance really is. I feel too many people gloss over it and focus too much on price - they're both part of the equation, and maintenance is something you pay indefinitely! How do a studio's charges get this high? It's unreal. A similar apartment could well rent for that much! I'm with stevejhx on this - couldn't justify paying six figures for this.

It seems like a nice building with good ammenities so the rent is likely at least $2,100 for the studio.

Oh, and for the record, the maintences are high at this building since it is land-lease:

http://www.urbandigs.com/2008/12/landleases_when_worse_than_the.html

Thanks alpine292, good digging around! Agreed the rent's probably over 2k there - crazy stuff though.

That makes sense, but it it still weird that an apartment almost double the size of this studio has a lower maintenance.

Here's a similar building in Chelsea with cheap prices. It's also land lease, but the maintenances are slightly lower:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/352748-coop-101-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

This stuio sold for only $290,000 last March:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/87680-coop-101-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

Alpine, that unit was taken off the market earlier at $499, 35k lower than now.

"16 rent stabalized occupied units for sale as a block. etc."

You'll be seeing lots of that with the new Fannie Mae regulations - can't get a conforming mortgage if the sponsor / holder of unsold shares / any other entity or individual own more than 10% of the units.

"it is land-lease"

Then you'll need to pay cash - no one will give you a loan.

"The obvious question is what a similar studio would rent for. I have no idea."

It would rent for about $2,000 a month, from nybits:

Apartments in Midtown East:
$1,900 Studio at The Beaux Arts
$2,030 Studio at 400 East 57th Street
$2,030 Studio at 400 East 57th Street
$2,080 Studio at 400 East 57th Street
$2,100 Studio at The Beaux Arts
$2,100 Studio at 400 East 58th Street
$2,100 Studio at 400 East 57th Street
$2,100 Studio at 400 East 57th Street
$2,300 Studio at 400 East 58th Street

Which is why the price needs to fall to $75,000.

thankfully there's little demand for the translating services by stevejhx so he can continue pointless research on streeteasy. keeping INVESTING hours of your day into a NON-REWARDING product.

Something does seem wrong here. $1600 is on the high side, but not enough to cause crazy prices.

$400 psf.

Something jus toff...

hey, where is steveF in these moments ..... i miss the guy with his delusions .....

Working on a deal to buy Marvin Gardens.

Check out those fotos. This guy has too much clutter.

The listings with the more reasonable maintenances are over 200 days old. I bet they didn't update the listings when the got the new maintenance numbers. The UD artical says they doubled. Double what's listed for the Jr 4's and they're up to 3k or about $3 psf like the studios.
Good luck to the seller of the rent stabilized block. No way the rents are coming close to covering the maintenance.

Seems to me this is much like a rental with such a maintenance. Works out to $38.54 per square foot per year. About half what it might be for a nice rental.

Presumably you're also paying for a big slug of underlying mortgage on the building in addition to the $195 K. Add that underlying mortgage to the $195 K and the apartment doesn't look all that cheap to me.

Steve is the guy who put his money in triple leveraged Brazilian and Chinese options and subsequently lost 95%. No he didn't win.

Hello- stevejhx- May I ask you to give me the formula for calculating the value of an apartment by using the rent. Is it:
$rent X 12 X 12?
If so given an average rent of $2,000 from the above example, it would follow:
$2,000 X 12 X 12 = $288,000
Where am I going wrong?
Thank you

oh no, don't take the bait steve...

nyc10022, don't you give any credit to steve? Of course YOU can figure out when you are being baited, but don't you think you are insulting steve a bit when you assume he can't figure our when he's being bated? do you really think you are that much better than steve?

"OK STEVEJHX, YOU WIN! WE LOSE!"

Lawdy, Lawdy......redemption

Rock on, Steve.

stevejhx How does one use the above formula when calculating the value of a townhouse with several apartments? The yearly real estate taxes can sometimes vary considerably.
Thanks

P.S. Rents are coming down, sometimes the drop is quite impressive. What is the basis for calculating the value?

I mean that the real estate taxes can vary from one property to another.

VWear, no, actually, but thanks. I'm still solvent.

1818, you're not going wrong. Wait a year.

"stevejhx How does one use the above formula when calculating the value of a townhouse with several apartments? "

Steve, forgive me for interjecting.

1818: There's a multifamily formula which appraisers use. If you contemplate buying multifamily & are unsure how to value it, suggest you pay (out of pocket) for a legit appraisal prior to (a) signing a either a purchase contract or (b) applying for a mtg. A legit appraisal will tell you cap rate, value & show you the formula for figuring out the value. Once you see the formula, you can apply the formula to any multifamily you contemplate buying in the future.

solvent, what exactly are you selling?

dwell, you speak beyond my knowledge. You are forgiven. Speak on.

Muchas Gracias, Esteban.

Ya, so 1818, if yer out there.............a legit appraiser will subtract a percentage from the rent roll to account for vacancies. Then, he/she figures out the NOI (net operating income), then, he/she figures out the Capitalization rate (cap rate) for your bld and will give you coms (comparable sales).

As a multifamily RE owner, realize you will be a captive cash cow to a local government for real estate tax, so, you must figure that in, but, every year, you can hire a lawyer & challenge your RE assessment via a Certiori Proceeding.

Qu is how many times the rent roll do you pay? My granddad in the 1970s said don't pay more than 6 xs rent roll. Earlier this year, I was offered 19 xs rent roll, which is ridiculous (the bubble). So, hard to say what's a good number. Look at the cash flow. IMO, try to stay as close to 10xs rent roll as you can.

Hello- stevejhx- May I ask you to give me the formula for calculating the value of an apartment by using the rent. Is it:
$rent X 12 X 12?
If so given an average rent of $2,000 from the above example, it would follow:
$2,000 X 12 X 12 = $288,000
Where am I going wrong?

How does one use the above formula when calculating the value of a townhouse with several apartments? The yearly real estate taxes can sometimes vary considerably.

Rents are coming down, sometimes the drop is quite impressive. What is the basis for calculating the value?
I mean that the real estate taxes can vary from one property to another. Thanks

Guess I'm chopped livah. nevah mind that I actually own a bunch of multifamily, dude!!! Come se dice "hard headed"?

Hey dwell, I also own a bunch of multifamily properties and agree with your thinking. But in my experience, appraisals usually use pro-forma (fantasy) income and expense levels. It's difficult to check the pro-formas vs. the actuals, because the actual financial records are unaudited, and believe it or not, people lie! And you can only learn that the hard way.

So, when you see a 6X rent roll offer, run away, something is very wrong. An example of a 6X rent roll offer that I saw went like this: Appraisal said there were 40 units and based income on the 40 units. But when I actually counted the units there were only 36, so I ask the appraiser where the other 4 are. He says "you could build out 4 more units in the attic space." Then I notice there are no separate electric meters, yet no electricity expenses on the financial statements. When I ask the appraiser, he says "you could build the separate electric meters and then the residents would pay." Appraisal doesn't consider cost of building the meters or the thought that just maybe the current residents wouldn't be happy about now paying for their electricity with no rental offset. Appraiser was a criminal in my view, not unlike many of the NINJA borrowers and mortgage brokers.

I won't mention the condition of building or what happened when I googled the apartments to see if there were any police/arrest/negative stories tied to them, but needless to say I'm glad I ran from that one. Not that I've always been that lucky.

Oh, and not sure about the Spanish translation, but in Italian it's "testa dura." My wife calls me that alot.

i wouldn't pay $1 for this studio. why would i pay a $1600 maintenance every month in a building that looks to have serious problems and where those payments are likely to go up significantly. when you rent, it is true that rent can go up. but then you have the option to move. if the maintenance goes up you are stuck with it.

"the land rent is going to be renegotiated with the leaseholder"

Wrong word, UD: "leaseholder" is the lessee, not the lessor. The lessor is the freeholder.

Don't ... give ... up

stevejhx is yet another card carrying member of the chicken little club.

UWS1313 - and you, I suppose, are a card carrying member of the ostrich club. I think you picked the wrong bird.