What do I need to know when dealing with for sale by owner

why don't you work with buyer's agent?

I saw the listing so contacted the owners directly. I haven't been impressed at all with any brokers that I have met so that's why I don't have one representing me yet. Could I introduce a buying broker now, after already seeing the apartment without one?

Bah no need to use an agent. Just use a lawyer.

That is a pretty nice FSBO web site.

Did you check the other listings? Looks way overpriced.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/10-west-15-street-new_york

How so - they are also $1k/square foot? The other 2 bedroom is really small, 2nd floor, no light.

What would you consider fair value for the apt that I am interested in?

Well, maybe not way overpriced but it is $1,110 psf when the average listing in the building is $972.

This apartment sold for $1.4m back in August of 2006. Looks like the seller is trying to break even.

The owner is trying to save $75K in brokerage fees (could easily negotiate to 5%) on a $1.5 million apartment. And likely, there'll be a broker representing a buyer who would be paid one way or the other, so we are taking about saving $40K. So right off the bat, you know you are dealing with someone who thinks they know everything and is also a cheapskate. So enjoy negotiations.

Ranter - you seem painfully bitter? I have done 3 FSBO deals and have always had very good experiences. You act like brokers somehow have a right to all listings. Owners have every right to represent themselves.

Its not a leap here to see why some people distrust brokers.

Owners have a "right" to do whatever the heck they want.

But if I were approaching a FSBO, I'd be cautious about what kind of potentially intransigent individual I could be dealing with.

What is the difference if you are dealing with a "potentially intransigent individual" with or without a broker? Sometimes I think brokers just get in the way of negotiating a deal, though other times they may be able to help put the parties together.

I think that is a huge leap. Just because someone represents their own property, that somehow makes them suspect?

That's bullshit.

"And likely, there'll be a broker representing a buyer who would be paid one way or the other, so we are taking about saving $40K.

Not true, some FSBO's will not entertain offers from buyer’s brokers. It is up to the seller. My last FSBO was under a strict no brokers allowed policy.

"So right off the bat, you know you are dealing with someone who thinks they know everything and is also a cheapskate."

Also not true. I've bought and sold FSBO, saved money, and had great experiences with the people I worked with dealt with. I still exchange xmas cards will the folks I bought my current place from. Why would you make a comment like that ranter? Have you ever done an FSBO?

scoots, nothing to be afraid of here. A good lawyer is all you need. If you need some coaching, post your questions here and I will do what I can to help.

place is beautiful. i can't comment on whether it is worth the asking price. Obviously you will do your homework on comps. I would make sure that you have your attorney review the financials of the building before you sign any contract. Get the bylaws and rules of the coop as well. You would have probably relied on the broker for some information on those details re: the rules and possibly what the board is like. get a copy of the board's application before you sign a contract as well.

Pretty much anything you would have relied on a broker to provide info on I would get upfront. I was a FSBO and sold my place with no broker. If you do your homework it can be a great experience. Any information you really were relying on that was provided by the owners, see if you can make it a contingency in the contract. That way, the owners are responsible for the veracity of their information.

Good luck. The place is georgous and I love that area!

Beautiful apartment. Please let us know how it goes. I don't think it's overpriced, personally.

Nice apartment. It's being marketed as a 2 bedroom, but I think you can easily turn it into a 3 bedroom by putting up a wall in the media room. In fact, I am surprised the seller has not done that because it would make it easier to sell.

My friends did a fsbo, they were so overpriced!

Babs makes great points, I would agree on all, especially the paperwork. I always insist on seeing a building's financials before even placing a bid - if there is any risk that the maint will rise, I factor that in my bid. Your lawyer will always be the best guide.

I sold my apartment FSBO and had a great experience. The people we sold to were wonderful and it was a very pleasant experience ( no brokers involved at all). We had a great lawyer who made sure to protect our interests. If you do your research and see that the apartment is being offered at market rate, then it is fair to try to discount based on the fact that they are not paying a broker's fee. This way you can both benefit from the savings.

I bought FSBO a few years ago and everything went smoothly. The owner and I were both happy to be working without a middleman. I simply worked with my lawyer and a very helpful owner.

I am also selling my place FSBO right now (East 79th Street - 2 Bed, 1 Bath: open house January 11th if anyone interested) and although many might refer to me as "intransigent" that would only be in regards to my stellar taste in music.

That is an interesting comment by ranter - in today's economy is it really that difficult to see why someone might want to put in a little work themselves and keep an extra $50,000?

EAO - how did you get exposure when selling your place? where did you list, advertise, etc.? Was it recently?
Also, did you just happen to get someone without a buy side broker or did you not accept buyer side brokers?
I appreciate any details you can give me on how you got your sale done. Thanks.

Sniper - I am EAO but I am happy to also add in my 2 cents. I have sold 2 and bought 1 FSBO. For our 2 sales, we used the NYT. I also posted a few Craigs List, etc but I received zero qualified traffic from it.

We did accept bids from buyers brokers, we just told them honestly that those bids would be evaluated on a gross, not net, basis (ie: plus commission). Both times we ended up with buyers who did not have buyers brokers.

We collected tons of flyers at Open Houses (because we were also looking to buy at the same time) and essentially asked each time, what questions do I still have after looking at this? We kept a running list and made sure that our flyer answered every question that came up. We then made a "How to Buy Our Apartment" sheet that we emailed to interested Open House attendees. It listed the process, included our lawyers contact details and simply laid out the next steps.

Our 2 buyers were fantastic people and we had great experiences.

sorry - meant to say I am NOT EAO!

sniper, I put an ad on-line on the NYTimes website and I put up a flier in my building. I made sure to take great pictures and have a clear floorplan. Having a "professional looking" attractive ad is very important. I also cleared the apartment of all clutter and made sure that it consistently showed well. I went into contract 1 year ago and closed last June.
I got A LOT of calls from brokers, most of whom told me that they had an interested buyer ( I was willing to pay 3%). In many cases, they did not and were merely trying to get my business. I was also continually receiving calls from brokers trying to get the listing. As a result, I would make sure you specify in your ad that you are only entertaining calls from ligitimate buyers ( and brokers of ligitimate buyers).
Despite doing 3 months worth of open houses (from the NYTimes) and having a number of intersted parties ( although far fewer offers), we ended up selling to the best friends of some one that was living in our building. Their friends saw the flier in the lobby mailroom and forwarded the information onward. Make sure that you advertise the apartment in your building as well as informing the staff that works there. We got a lot of interested people through the building.
In the end, we sold it for 6% under our asking which was at market value. This was about equal to what the brokers fee would have cost. .. but, being able to offer the discount is what ultimately sold the apartment. The buyers offered us all cash and a flexible closing date for 6% under asking. The market was starting to soften and we didn't want to let a good solid offer go. In hindsight, I am very happy that we took the offer. I know that we could not sell it now for what we sold it a year ago. In this market, you have to be willing to offer a discount. Make sure that you have a good understanding of the comps and price it well. People are expecting a discount in this market, it will be even more so with a FSBO. Our buyers only wanted to be in the our building with their friends and we had pretty amazing views which they loved. Having now gone through the selling process twice, first through a broker and second on my own, I can't believe I ever used a broker. If you advertise it well and price it right, it really can be very easy.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the input guys. Would it somehow be possible to see the ads/flyers that you guys used? I have made one that contains pics and all pertinent info. I could send it to you as well. Also, Village - can i get a copy of your "How To Buy Our Apartment" sheet? That sounds like a great idea. Thanks. If so, you guys can send them to Apt11K4Sale@me.com and I will send mine to you for feedback.

Is that a FSBO website? Very well done. I'd like to know more about that website if it is. Does anybody know any other FSBO websites? I find Craigslist very difficult to use. Thanks.

No Brokers Please is coming online this week - it is a specialty FSBO website that hones in on NYC, BK and Queens FSBO only. Plus you will get coaching from a Professional Broker so you can sell on your own, have coaching for any situation and avoid paying the 6% broker fee.

It breaks down why RE companies are successful and recreates for FSBO's

Centralized marketing platform - the website

Banding together individual FSBO listings on the site to create market power - just like big real estate companies do it - thus creating wide marketing exposure

Coaching from someone in the marketplace that has sold homes for over 7 years

Discounted NYT ads through membership

+ much more. Coming on line this week.

www.nbpny.com

In your honor, scoots, the first post of the New Year:

http://www.frontporchllc.com/2009/01/enough-of-the-seller-fsbo-advice-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-buy-an-apartment-fsbo/

ali r.
{downtown broker}

NoBrokers - when does the site go live? is there a charge for membership?

NoBrokersPlease, is this an urbandigs venture?

Will find out today the date and time. Yes there will be membership fees and it will be the bridge to what people need when selling FSBO - it answers the points from brokers in the NYT FSBO article about why individual fsbos have issues selling on there own.

Should be live tomorrow - says web developers.

We already have 11 members signed up.

No this is not urban digs - tomorrow when I quit my job, you'll be privy to rest.

You mention a discount for NY Times listings. I was about to list today. What are your membership fees and what kind of discount? Maybe I will wait.

email me at nbpny@yahoo.com and I will provide a link to the site on our home servers. we're tweaking it a bit but you can get all the info.

Village
Thanks for sticking up for the rights of owners to represent their own properties. I have also bought and sold FSBO before and have had good experiences. All you need is a good lawyer and a deal can be done. I enjoy talking to interested buyers and do not appreciate the way owners get shut out of the discussions when agents are utilized.

For the record, here is my Times ad:

http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/253-NS81208109/407-PARK-AVENUE-SOUTH-NY-10016

Here is my FSBO website:

http://web.me.com/mac.hive/407PAS/18B.html

My one bedroom is the lowest priced one bedroom for sale in my building. I am sick of having agents always say that FSBOs are overpriced. It is not necessarily true. Lots and lots of agent represented properties are overpriced, that's for sure.

It's a big city and there is room for agents and for FSBOs.

nbpny - did you get the email i sent? i have not received a response yet.

will nbpny have the exposure that is helpful to sell property? will it have the luster? the appeal? or will be just another cut and paste type of space? exposure matters, particularly in digital space!

I just wonder how many eyeballs nbpny will be able to attract. Like you said, exposure matters. How many eyes search the Times real estate ads every week?

Thanks 407PAS - your website is great. Good luck selling your place!

Thanks everyone! This is very helpful, I will keep you posted.

I have just put up a website for my FSBO:

http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

i welcome any feedback - questions, comments, buyers, etc.
if there is anything missing that you think i should have please let me know.

Not bad, but I am not seeing your photos or floorplan. Are they missing for some reason? Also, in the interests of fair housing law, I would not put that paragraph about couples with children, one, two, etc , etc. It should not matter. If a single person with three cats wants to buy the apartment and has the money, they should be able to do so.

is it just me or does your FSBO site look a lot like the first one in this thread? Is there some template that I can access somewhere? I plan to list my place next year.

We did our site, mentioned above, with the iWeb app and dragging things around on a single paged canvas. I guess there is a model for the multi-tab option, which people seem to be embracing.

no template - just iweb on a mac.
i personally used that first site as template because i knew it was made on a mac and i liked the clean look of it.

i have had 3 or 4 people tell me they can't see the pictures or floorplan (which are really photos too). everyone else has not had a problem. i have opened it on IE, Safari, and Chrome. FIREFOX seems to be having some issues with the photos. I actually called Apple as well and they said it all seems right. I would just suggest another browser.

if you want me to email you a pdf of the apartment send me an email at Apt11K4Sale@me.com

http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

Yeah, it looks like it is FireFox related. The site loads better for me under Internet Explorer, although I think it loads slowly. I think the Photos page loads very slowly. Maybe you want to put fewer photos or smaller ones. I think your kitchen photos are a little redundant. Is there a window in the bathroom? Maybe you could show that in the photo.

I can't read the dimensions on your floorplan. Could you make those dimensions larger? I like the floorplans that show with furniture and without furniture. That's clever.

I don't want a PDF, I'm not looking to buy it, only critique it. ;-)

i could definitely remove a few photos. that should help loading time. no window in the bathroom. i will put the floorplans up later with a different file type. i saved them as photos in iphoto but apparently that won't let me make them larger. the need to be much bigger. thanks for the comments.

is it wrong/unethical to offer a buyer's broker a flat cash fee or payment for bringing in clients to a FSBO?

it seems odd that there are so few posters with actual experience buying from a fsbo. I am happy to see the few happy stories but surprised that there isn't more feedback. Is it just not done?

it definitely gets done but i think the biggest issue is exposure.

i am having my FSBO open house this sunday and i really don't know where to go except for the NY Times print and online. if you want to buy FSBO where are you really gonna go? when you look up apartments as a buyer or just for curiosity you are going to hit the big broker sites. there really are no other outlets. if you put a listing on craigslist you end up only getting calls from brokers. someone on here contacted me about a membership site they are putting together just for FSBO but it is not up yet and I am not sure how they will get their name out there and grab the exposure.

sniper - how are you looking to drive traffic? the crappy new NYT website is not going to help brokers or fizzes.

i am still trying. i have posted it here( web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html ), i have sent it to almost everyone i know and asked them to pass it on, a few people are listing it on their company's websites for me (a lot of have intra-nets for employees to list things), i will do an NYT ad and online and also a broker is having an open house at the same time in my building (for the same size apartment listed at $1.045M - I am at $875K) and I will make sure the doormen direct people to me and I will also be down in the lobby trying to poach people who come for them.

any other suggestions?

"(for the same size apartment listed at $1.045M - I am at $875K)"

My goodness, you're so overpriced! ;-) So, why are they that much more expensive than your place? Is it on a higher floor? Is it really the same size? Does it have some kind of spectacular renovation? I see no reason why in the world you cannot sell if you are price competitive. You just have to be patient and wait for a buyer. Read the chapter in Freakonomics on how brokers leave their properties on the market for far longer than they advise their clients to leave them on the market. Brokers know that it takes time to find a buyer. Now you know too.

If you were on the West Side, we could talk. You're on the East Side and that does not work for me.

Hang in there. I would suggest posting to Craigslist and not putting down a phone number. The first time I sold FSBO, I listed a phone number. There were far too many useless calls from brokers. This time, I have not listed a phone number and have a much better time just responding to email messages. It is easy to ignore the useless emails.

"it seems odd that there are so few posters with actual experience buying from a fsbo. I am happy to see the few happy stories but surprised that there isn't more feedback. Is it just not done?"

I think there are few actual buyers on StreetEasy. I think it is full of real estate brokers and mavens. I think people who sell FSBO successfully don't go out of their way to talk about it too much because it invites hate mail from real estate agents. Yes, I have received hate mail. What a way to try to sell your services, by sending hate mail to the people you want to recruit as clients.

sniper good luck. I don't think you'll need it. It seems like you are ahead of the curve on pricing.

Nobrokersplease.... seems like another nail in the RE Broker model in NYC. Good luck in the new year.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/372185-coop-425-east-79th-street-yorkville-new-york

that is the other listing. just went up last week. i will go check it out during the open house sunday but apparently it has a really nice bathroom and kitchen renovation. but...for that $170K difference you could renovate the sh*t out of my kitchen and bathroom and still have $120K-$130K left to party with (even though my kitchen and bath have some new counters, tiles, etc. too.) also, take a look at the pictures - i think i have a lot more curb appeal (tell me what you think) and will show much better as long as I can get the traffic. from what i can gather, the owner made the broker list it that high.

Im a real estate attorney so have no vested interest however I find that especially in coops you need a broker for the board package especially now that there are more board turndowns then ever. Also I have seen sellers wasting alot of times as brokers vet potential buyers and weed out the time wasters and generally get the right prices.

That other place is frumptacular! I think yours will show beautifully in comparison. A couple of thoughts:
1) Can you leave a flyer in the lobby instead of hanging out down there during the open house? Sometimes FSBOs make buyers shy, so you don't want to come on too strong. If there are two similar apartments in the bldg, the buyers will likely seek you out. Don't hover, and try not to seem too house proud.
2) Do approach the listing agent for the other apartment. Tell him you'll be sure to send people to his showing as well. If you are willing to pay him a broker's fee (even a finder's fee), he may steer his own buyers to you rather than lose them as clients altogether. Since your listing makes his look overpriced, it's in his best interest to get you off the market as soon as possible.
3) I love Village's idea about the "how you can buy our apartment" sheet. You may want to seek out a mortgage broker to see if you can get a cost breakdown to include as well.
4) 407PAS is right about patience. But if you get a buyer on the first day, don't make the mistake of thinking you underpriced the apartment. Sometimes the one buyer for your place comes on the first day, makes a reasonable offer, and you're off to the races. Don't be careless with that person, or shop the bid to others.

tola5793 - sorry but your clients seem to be missing some basic common sense. I have sold 2 FSBOs (and bought one) - all coops. As a seller, we vetted potential buyers (see my post above, I created a "how to buy my apt" sheet ... sniper - I will try to find a copy of it) and listed all the coop requirements. I also helped the buyers with their packages but the truth is - the buyers have to do all the legwork. I am not paying 6% for someone to make copies of a coop package!

I am sure there are examples of sellers simply too clueless to execute a FSBO but that's not the case for many of us.

As long as the board package is filled out completely and follows all of the instructions provided by the management company, I see no reason why a broker has to be involved. I have done board packages all by myself, with help from my wife. You need to follow all the directions and give them everything they ask for. As long as your board is made up of lawyers and not real estate brokers, who will block your sale out of spite, you should be ok.

Yes, you should vet your potential buyers to find out if they are going to make the cut with the board, as far as their financials. I have a one page template I use with blanks for information like credit scores, incomes, assets, etc. Yes, you should do this in order to avoid the time wasters.

tina - that is all great advice and i definitely will follow it.

village - if you could find that sheet it would be much appreciated. you can email it to me at Apt11K4Sale@me.com. thanks.

407 - i agree. i filled out my co-op package and it was a pain in the ass but i got it done even though it was my first time and i was clueless.

Sure, essentially I detailed the process and also listed our lawyers contact details. I then listed the coop requirements and when people actually bid, i sent them a assets vs liablities worksheet to be filled out. it was really easy and truthfully - buyers don't want their own time wasted any more then they wish to waste your time - i didn't have any unqualified bidders.

scoots,
So who is your advocate?
When you make an offer and the owner asks why the offer is so low and to put something in writing and sees you are preapproved for 100,000 and your financial statement states more that what you are offering, and he realizes that you can afford to pay more, he won't counter correctly. You need someone in your court, on your side to get the deal DONE. Fsbo deals are hard. Not only that, most that I approach will agree to do a direct deal with me anyway. He's representing himself.And who's going to do the board package? you? It's too much work. that's what I get paid for. And I'm worth every cent. call a broker. hey, I know.... call me. 917-573-0105.
Broker

The buyer's lawyer represents the buyer and is his advocate. The agents are paid by the seller and represent the seller. Yeah, you will tell me that a buyer's agent represents the buyer but I do not believe you. You work for whoever pays you. The seller pays you.

After the buyer and seller have agreed on a price, they're on the same side and should work quickly to get the deal done, through their respective lawyers, who will negotiate the contract. In the rest of the country, brokers negotiate the contract and you pay a lawyer a nominal fee at closing to review the paperwork. In New York, you pay a lawyer from day one, and the broker does a lot less to make the deal happen. Sorry, but that is the truth.

The seller has to provide all of the financial information and reference letters for the board package, the broker does not know that information and cannot produce it. A seller has to do the work, no matter what. The run to Kinkos is not worth 3-6% of the deal.

Sorry, in my last paragraph, I meant the BUYER has to do all of the work. The BUYER has to produce the financial information.

tina
"2) Do approach the listing agent for the other apartment. Tell him you'll be sure to send people to his showing as well. If you are willing to pay him a broker's fee (even a finder's fee), he may steer his own buyers to you rather than lose them as clients altogether. Since your listing makes his look overpriced, it's in his best interest to get you off the market as soon as possible."

what do you suggest is the best way to start/have this conversation with the other broker doing an open house? also, how do you arrive at the proper broker's fee/finder's fee?

thanks.

I would be careful about having these kind of conversations with a broker, lest you find yourself being sued later, when one of them claims to be part of a deal they were never involved in. You have got to be careful. I avoid discussions with brokers and talk directly to interested buyers, so it is clear.

Be sure to include a section in your contract that says that no brokers were utilized in the sale of this apartment in order to protect yourself later.

407 - would you really not pay a broker if they brought you a buyer? I have sold 2 FSBOs (no brokers involved) but if a broker did ever bring me a qualified buyer (as one did once but the bid was lower then another), I would pay the broker a commission. Why not?

would you pay 3% or would you work out a flat fee? if so, what would that fee be?

I don't allow brokers in the door so there is no notion of paying them a commission. My current price does not leave any room for any such commission.

I don't think FSBOs should play it halfway. If they sell direct, they should sell direct. If they want to use agents, then they should just sign up for the whole agent model. I have trouble with the middle.

i would rather sell direct, obviously, but the big issue is exposure. with no MLS and no other real marketplace for FSBO's you want someone to bring the people in and that is definitely worth some kind of premium - is it not?

Village:
"but if a broker did ever bring me a qualified buyer (as one did once but the bid was lower then another), I would pay the broker a commission. Why not?"
makes no sense, If a buyer walks to my door with an agent in tow. Theoretically, though maybe not legally, they represent the buyer. Let the buyer pay a fee to THEIR agent. (Remember, we, me, 407pas) have the asset, the house. Buyer and his agent are the ones that want it. Let them pay.

The premium is up to you to decide and negotiate with someone. I just think it becomes a big mess when you start dealing with agents. First, they steal your ads and post them as their own, so it looks like they are representing your property. Besides that, they call constantly saying they have interested buyers, when they have none. They show up at your door in order to "preview" your property and then try to angle for a listing. It just becomes a nightmare.

You want exposure, post on Craigslist, on the Times of course, your building's website, the laundry room, Twitter out your open houses, go building to building in your neighborhood to see if you can post an ad, hang it on a street sign, stand in front of the building with a sandwich board, facebook all your friends, etc. Right, we have no MLS, we will have to form our own model using the internet and all possible channels.

"Village:
"but if a broker did ever bring me a qualified buyer (as one did once but the bid was lower then another), I would pay the broker a commission. Why not?"
makes no sense, If a buyer walks to my door with an agent in tow. Theoretically, though maybe not legally, they represent the buyer. Let the buyer pay a fee to THEIR agent. (Remember, we, me, 407pas) have the asset, the house. Buyer and his agent are the ones that want it. Let them pay."

Good point, of course. Sure, you raise the price of the apartment by the commission and the buyer walks, 99% of the time, I would say. Buyers seem to want the fee hidden away in the price of the apartment so they don't really think they're paying it. Commissions raise the cost of housing. Mortgage brokers raise the cost of lending by sticking their fees into the loan.

NoBrokersPlease I think you have a great idea! Good luck.

407PAS You are so right. The commissions have always been hidden in the price. A buyer is foolish to believe that it is the seller paying the commission.

ruff. correct...in all of life..the one paying the vig is the one reaching into the wallet!

i agree with what you guys are saying but how do you think you fare FSBO in this market when you think you have priced to sell, and your price reflects (what you think is) a discount of the broker fee but buyer's are getting conditioned to come in at 15%+ below ask because that is just how you do it today? then won't really account for the broker fee not being there will they? they just want to lowball whatever the ask is. http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

on a side note:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/372185-coop-425-east-79th-street-yorkville-new-york?email=true
the other place in my building (same apartment 4 floors lower) listed 8 days ago at $1.045M. they reduced already today to $995K.
they are using a broker.

In the end, price is price is price. If a buyer finds an apartment they want, at a price they think is fair given the comps, it should not matter whether it is broker represented or FSBO. Buyers can think of whatever discount they want but that does not mean they will get the discount, of course. Some places are listed at a good price from the start. I have seen some of those places sell quickly. All you can do is point out that your competitor is at a higher price point for the same apartment and that you are a good deal.

Hey PAS - a bit of totally unsolicited advice: I'd drop the whole thing about the price being equivalent to a $600K place with lower maintenance. Or bury it, at least. You don't want to lead with the negatives!

Sniper,
I would say you have put some price pressure on your competitor and have forced them to be more realistic. I remember looking at two identical apartments two floor apart, with a $25k price difference. I asked the agent why. He said, two buyers who bought at two different times who have two different ideas of the value of their apartments. I bought the cheaper place.

Good luck with your sale.

Thanks everyone ... this is very insightful. I believe the sellers are reasonable people and that we can do this without a broker. The conversation above has all been helpful. Now I have to decide what to bid on this place or if I should simply wait. Thanks to everyone!

"Hey PAS - a bit of totally unsolicited advice: I'd drop the whole thing about the price being equivalent to a $600K place with lower maintenance. Or bury it, at least. You don't want to lead with the negatives!"

Thanks for the advice, I understand what you're saying but I'm just trying to point out the equivalency to people who can't seem to understand this idea. Living in Manhattan is all about dealing with trade-offs and this is a trade-off. Maybe that line should just go at the bottom of the ad. I don't want to delete it.

Now that our maintenance has remained steady for the fourth year in a row, if I recall correctly, I see lots of other apartments coming close to us in terms of maintenance levels, so we look better when compared to other one bedrooms.