An answer to FSBO prayers?????

and when will that be? in the year of the lamb? take out of work 90% how deals are done in nyc? exposure matters, brand matters now, not in the year of the lamb when everything is different anyway.

year of the lamb? is that chinese calendar? i am not familiar with it.

yeah, you are probably right...it's not like some nerd from san francisco could change the way business is done with his little list he started off emailing to a dozen friends...or could he?????

i don't know when that will be, just came to mind, It was as random as the suggestion that suddenly we have the answer to something so complex and deeply rooted.

anything is possible, I know that there are models like the one that you have suggested, but this is NYC, a lot of powerful people making money on the existing model. I am not arguing that things should not change, just that it will take more than one website hating brokers.

I like FSBOs, after all, I'm the type who used to go to natural food stores before anyone had heard of Whole Foods (but not THAT long before). But what FSBOers need to understand is if they expect higher proceeds as a result, they will be mistaken. There's two sides of the FSBO equation, and the other side is the BUYER. So the buyer is the natural foodie type, fast forward 15 years, and expecting fairer value for her hempseed. So on the one hand you'll have the FSBO people who are just cheapos rather than true do it yourselfers, and on the other hand, you'll have those who have more modest expectations on what they ought to be paying (picture a long haired naked stevejhx).

why is that random? some of the best things in life are so simple - people just think about something that would make their life easier and they fill the need. i mean, take a look at the "chip clip." so friggin' simple, but so great and filled a need. someone somewhere is sipping drinks with umbrellas because of the "chip clip!" and maybe someday someone will be sipping those drinks because of the www.nbpny.com.

i hope to be sipping them because of http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

Real estate transactions existed and did well before the brokers, and will after the brokers. Like any other business model, brokersge-bases one will expire at some point. Brand recognition means less and less. Exposure? Like NY Times? Really.

like millions of unique viewers from all over the world on one page clicking on your property. Like trusting a brand name with your $$$ instead of giving your hard earned cash to some unknown guy who thinks this is the answer while banking on ppl's anxiety.

FSBO = more opportunities for fraud.

fizz - i think i am an FSBO who doesn't necessarily expect a higher result but expects to start at the right price and does not want to fork over $50K to a broker. a lot of people on these boards refer to people who don't want to use brokers as "cheap (not looking to pick fights but i have to assume they are brokers) - what about the fact that this economy is in the crapper and i have a wife and kids and it would be incredibly imprudent to give $50K to someone when i can give it a go myself first?

But ultimately yes, I think that pioneering a dynamic movement will eventually change a structure, so, I am not knocking trying something new, just that this particular subject is tough in the context of NYC

ahhh...but that is what NYC is all about!
the big brokers are the undefeated patriots and the FSBO'ers are the upstart giants.
how did that story end?

bmw
"i don't know when that will be, just came to mind, It was as random as the suggestion that suddenly we have the answer to something so complex and deeply rooted."
Thats funny! 'something so complex", so complex a bad, out of work hairdresser can do it...However, I will stipulate to the deeply rooted part. So deeply rooted it's like a bone spur.

FSBOs are great. How does it present opportunities for fraud, fizzbeaux? Considering that lawyers are pretty much mandatory on both sides of a real estate transaction in NYC, once you accept an offer, you just send it off to the lawyers--simple. That's it.

Taking into account the amount of brokers that post on this site, the FSBO idea will no doubt be trashed and discouraged here, as it usually is.

hahhahahah. oh boy.

Look at the travel brokers. Before and after.

uhm, lots of closet brokers in this thread..nice find OP

The site should be popularized everywhere, i.e. Curbed and such. The matter of time. If only the monopolies of ConEd and Time Warner could be broken by citizen activism...

I believe that their market campaign begins today and will include curbed, they have some kind of deal (discounted advertising) with NYT and i believe they could be working with this site for something...maybe even getting their listings on here in some capacity.

please excuse me, but: "nice find OP" - what does OP mean?

Let's see, if I sell stuff honestly and efficiently on eBay and please my customers, I get positive ratings and nobody calls me a fraudster. If I try to sell my apartment on my own, I get called a nutcase, an unethical person, etc. As someone else remarked, there are lawyers on both sides of the transaction, what is there to fear?

An asset is an asset. I am trying to sell my asset without using a broker because I believe their prices are too high for the services they provide. Besides that, I don't like the way brokers totally control the transaction and shut out any input from the owner.

Let's face it, the real estate industry in this country has created one of the most inefficient systems in the world for selling property but, for some reason, it persists. I have a friend who just sold his apartment in Sweden. The sale took a week or so and the transfer costs were 1.5%, inclusive. In this country, we are happy to set up a system that takes 6% and moves property slowly. This wonderful system prolongs recessions because the housing market slowdown eventually messes up the labor market. People can't move to take better jobs because they can't sell their homes. Good work, real estate industry.

Why should brokers only take 6% of the transaction? Why not 15%? How about 35%? Why not 60%? Why don't you take 100%, would that make you happy? I'm sure it would. Just because some owners are willing to pay 6%, does not mean all owners have to pay 6%. This is a free market economy. There is no windfall. We all have to compete on price in the free market. It takes time, money and effort to sell an asset FSBO.

You know, its all about reach! Does this new site have the marketing reach that say a nytimes.com has? FSBO's first place to go is NYTimes/Craiglist generally and then they should come to SE forum.

But in Manhattan, most deals are co-brokered and so this site will not really offer anything above and beyond what nytimes.com current has, except a MUCH smaller reach. It takes alot of time or alot of advertising to build consistent traffic. Usually content is the best way to go to do this.

Anyway, putting the NO BROKERS PLEASE may appeal to those that hate brokers or this industry, and we know there are plenty of those. But this model is no different than offering just another site for sellers to put a listing up. Chances are FSBOs are already on NYTimes.com trying, and I dont see what this site brings above that.

What we need is a creative, new model that solves the problems of the structure of Manhattans brokerage model. Dont want to get into that here because clearly I have ideas of my own that I am working on for UrbanDigs

when might we see some of those ideas???

Urbandigs, sounds great, I believe that the inman panel will also have some positive thoughts on the subject. I am a hopeful real estate agent, I love real estate so much that I just want to be able to be part of of something that works well for everyone

when you say "hopeful agent" - what things are you hopeful about and what things are leaving other agents hopeless?

http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

I am already working off a new model and I have 17 years of experience as a broker in NYC to back it up,have handled transactions for David Schwimmer to first time studio buyers. Getting the consumer to work outside of the mainstream brokerage model is my biggest challenge, but I am making progress. I am not looking to change the market on my own, but I can offer my buyers, sellers and rental clients a new way to conduct business that is highly efficient and gives them more leverage in doing a deal.

You can not alienate the brokerage community and still do business here in a effective manner.But you can find a broker that has a flexible model that will allow you to work within the present system and not diminish your ability to complete a successful transaction.

A good example is how financial brokerages changed, it use to cost me $300 to buy $250 shares of GE. Then Schwab came along and I was paying $29 dollars now I pay $10. Believe me the guys at Merrill didn't think it would work...

I think for it to change here on a large scale will take a well funded major player to roll out a company that looks and smells like the big firms. This could happen sooner than later as I have had a meeting with such a person with just this idea. But ultimately for this to be successful the consumer has to get behind it. People may complain about the current model but most want to list with or work with a big firm. I know this first hand as when I worked for a firm that did not specialize in sales I had to work twice as hard to get a listing. Even though I could offer the same services, a better marketing plan, flexible exclusive agreement-it was a fight to keep their business. And these were mostly referrals from previously satisfied customers.

I think it's good that there are people out there trying to do things differently. I love what I do and have been making a good living and friends along the way. I am just trying to adapt to a changing market place, not re-invent the wheel. But I think things are changing and will have to change especially if our economy continues to deteriorate. Low interest rates and the "printing" of currency may not be enough to turn this train around and steer us into the next bull market. But give it about 3-5 years all will be forgotten and it will be like deja vu all over again. :).

do you still work on a commission model or do you work on a flat fee model? is it the same for buyers and sellers?
has it been tough implementing this model? is there resistance? how can you match up from a marketing stand point against the bigger firms?
thanks for the info.

If a buyer wants consultation services it's a flat rate. If I am working with a buyer in a "normal" capacity I agree to a commission of 1% which will give their offer more power. I will deal with the seller or sellers broker to get this point across.

If I am representing a seller the commission will be on a sliding scale, but most importantly any broker bringing in a buyer will receive 2.5% which will be acceptable to all firms and the seller will never pay more than 3.5% total. To be successful you can not exclude the NYC brokerage community.

The Internet and the centralized listings systems we all use level the field for the majority of properties. For 10 years I gave my firm close to half of what I made and in the vast majority of those deals either another broker brought a buyer to my listing or I found a property for my client through the NYT's web site. This is how it works, no magic formula.

The last 8 months I have been focused on rentals and that has done very well, I believe the idea will work well on the sales side as well. For more info www.theburkhardtgroup.com

Considering the fact that the majority of properties in NYC are cooperatives, who is going to assemble board package, type, photocopy multiple copies and submit to the board? I guess a buyer or seller who doesn't have a job and can be bothered with such a tedious task.

Oh, and how are sellers qualifying the buyer? Are you going to ask everyone for their financials as they enter the door of your Open House? Will you ask their income, debt-to-income ratio, their credit score, for a copy of their pre-qualification, pets, etc.?

How many apartments don't sell because they look outdated; are empty and need to be staged, are filthy and need to cleaned? Do you know how many sellers post photos of their apartments with the toilet seats up and the bed unmade?

What about international buyers who are not here, but qualified, and want you to take photos or set up a video shoot? What about young adults whose parents want to purchase for their children or be a guarantor?

In Florida, the realtor does everything and real estate attorneys are virtually non-existent. Funny how New Yorkers don't gripe about the fact that in order to complete a real estate transaction they have to retain an attorney and pay them to read board minutes.

Yes, as I have stated multiple times, brokers outside of New York do a lot more work for their money. I know, I have bought and sold houses outside of New York City. Agents out there negotiate the contract and do a lot of legwork to get to closing, with the lawyer getting a pretty small fee (old days it was $300) to review the documents and make sure it is legal.

Now, New Yorkers have to hire lawyers from day one, in order to negotiate the contract. The price of a lawyer is generally a flat fee of something like $2000-3000, unless the transaction goes pear shaped and you bill more hours. That price pales in comparison to the 6% OF SALES PRICE a seller has to pay to a broker, $30k in my case.

The board package has to be assembled by the buyer, after all, they know their own financial situation. If they can't follow instructions and get some copies made, they're pretty hopeless as buyers.

I verify income and other details once a real offer comes in, as part of the offer, not at the open house. I want to pick a buyer who will pass the board, so that nobody has their time wasted. If a buyer can't convince me they can pass muster with the board, the deal is not going anywhere.

I don't know of any agents in New York who will clean my apartment before an open house. Maybe they will hire somebody and pay them but I kind of doubt it, from what I have seen at some open houses, at least in occupied properties.

smillen - ouch. bitter much? you are right about a lot of that stuff and that is what brokers are for...for people who want to pay big money for someone to handle that stuff. for others, who can walk and chew gum at the same time - along with watch some HGTV, build a website, work a photocopier and have a little motivation, we at least try to do it ourselves. i bought without a broker, didn't know sh*t and managed to make a through a board package and interview unscathed.

also, why wouldn't i ask their income, ratio, credit score, etc. if they are a serious buyer? they will have to provide that anyway. if they won't give it to me i would not consider them a serious buyer.

for those talking about exposure - i just saw a front page banner ad on curbed.com for No Brokers Please! (www.nbpny.com).
It's a start.

smillen need some chillin.
Paradigms have shifted. Deal with it.

No Brokers Please listings are now showing in the times online with their logo

I love an entrepreneur but hardly think this is the answer to a FSBO's prayers. This service really is not much better than posting your own ad in the NYT's but I guess it's better than nothing. I think there was a poster named "Someonewhoknows" on here, much dislike for brokers but gave some great advice. You have to get your listing out to the NYC brokerage community because love em'or hate them most buyers have a broker.

Here's my commission scale: 3.5% and I will pay a co-broker 2.5% all firms will gladly accept this. If I sell the property to a direct customer the commission drops to 1%.

e-listing sent out to 8000 brokers to announce a "New Exclusive", Property will be listed on my website, NYT's online and in a large data base used by all brokers. I will hold an open house every Sunday until the property is sold and show and schedule appointments during the week. This is your best bet to sell your property at a fair commission in this city.