City Employee Pay Is Outpacing Private Sector, Report Says

I don't know; I don't just buy that argument out of hand without seeing what the average private sector worker costs. Just because the rate of compensation growth was faster doesn't mean the spending is actually higher. You could well be right, just need more data to be sure.

Much of this is due to pension payments, which you can't cut out. Take that out and you have a different picture. City is mandated to have a pension by state law.

many city workers were really underpaid under Giuiliani. I am all for fiscal restraint. But I love that Mayor Mike is actually paying the people who work for the benefit of the rest of us!!!

Stevie... pls offer up a funnier last spanish name than that... my HS spanish is way too rusty...

inthehouse... have you ever dealt with the buildings dept? A $1/year would be paying them too much... :)

So I guess this means you will be applying to work for one of those great City jobs now, steve?

Bloomberg...another great businessman who is made of straw

I saw on NY 1 that the average compensation for a firefighter is $186k and for a policeman $164k.

Go unions!

Do all city workers still have the ability to retire after 20 years and if so, at what percentage of their pay (at retirement) do they get.

Great, another article attacking city workers. My father used to be a subway conductor. Yeah, we had it really good thanks to his "excessive" salary when I grew up. A classic 6 on Park Ave. A house in the Hamptons. Private jet trips to Aspen. A maid. Yeah, we had all of these luxurues in OUR DREAMS.

Only police and fire department workers can retire after 20 years. So before you criticize that program, please ask yourself who you want to rescue in if your trapped in a burning building: a 23 year old fire fighter or a 63 year old fire fighter?

"I saw on NY 1 that the average compensation for a firefighter is $186k and for a policeman $164k."

No, it's not, you fool. According to the NYPD's own website, the top salary for a cop is $73,000.

Alpine, I was referring to occupations such as mechanics, garbagemen/women and others that don't have physically taxing and dangerous careers, not firemen. I agree with you though they should be able to do their jobs until 50. As for police officers, most can work well into their 50's. Therefore, do you know if these other groups can retire after 20 years
The bigger issue is pension payout. Instead of a defined benefit, it should go to defined contribution which is how corporate America works. The current system is not sound on an actuarial basis. The city can no longer afford the existing pension plan.

"the top salary for a cop is $73,000."

Not. That's the base pay. Total pay is over $90,000.

That doesn't include overtime, which is considerable.

It doesn't include the fact that they can retire with full benefits after 20 years, tax free in New York.

"Estimated pension of $58,000 per year for 35 years" PLUS an additional $12,000 supplement.

http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_RetirementBenefits.aspx

$70,000 a year. Retired for twice as long as they actually work for.

F*CK. OVERPAID. OVERPAID. OVERPAID.

Don't even get me started on the teachers - they're even MORE overpaid.

Tenure for kindergarten teachers. What is it about finger painting that requires tenure?

> No, it's not, you fool. According to the NYPD's own website, the top salary for a cop is $73,000.

Hey, if you are going to be an ass... be correct...

Cops do not make $160,000 a year. Your all ignoramuses.

According to here:

http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_PromotionalOpportunites.aspx

The top pay for NYC police officers after 5.5 years is $91,000. That is base pay, "longevity pay," "uniform allowance," and holiday pay. It DOES NOT include overtime.

Their retirement benefits are tax-free and amount to over $2 million PER OFFICER excluding health benefits.

$53,000 per year in retirement. The New York City personal income tax is about 3.2%. That would require $1.7 million in wages to generate enough tax to pay the retirement benefits for a single New York City police officer. The median household income is about $40,000. It requires FORTY households to support 1 retired police officer without counting medical benefits.

There are about 23,000 police officers today. It would take 1 million households to support the retirement benefits of all active police officers. That number will grow exponentially over time, whereas the city's population won't.

That's just cops.

It's not sustainable.

It is stupid to count the uniform allowance as a salary. If your going to make cops wear a uniform, then it is only right that the city pay for it. It's not like cops have the option of wearing plain clothes anytime they want to.

> Your all ignoramuses.

Now if THAT isn't the quote of the year, I don't know what is...

;-)

And I should mention that suburban police departments, the Port Authority, the NY State Police, and the NJ State Police all pay their cops MORE than the NYPD does, and they are not going bankrupt.

The top salary for a NY State Trooper is $77,000, while the top salary for a NJ State trooper is $93,000.

CORRECTION: Top pay for a NJ State trooper is $97,000.

current NYPD Police Officer pay

after 5.5 years (top pay) :
base pay $73,546
longevity pay $4,220
Holiday pay $3,277
Uniform allowance $1,000
EQUALS $82,043

Right now, only 34% of the NYPD police officers are at top pay.
They only collect 50% of their pension upon their 20 years, not full pay, stevejhx.

and of course they pay taxes on their pensions, if they live in NYS. If they live in FL or NV, no state taxes.

the average NYPD police officer has only 3.5 years experience, as they have had a huge retention problem until this very year.

3.5 year NYPD pay:

base pay $51,221
Longevity: 0
Holiday pay: $2,183
Uniform allowance: $1000
EQUALS $54,380

that's not a lot of money, and not worth any criticism. Not easy work.

The Bergen Record recently ran a series of reports called "Runaway Pay" about state and muncipal workers making huge salaries (some cops in Fort Lee made more than the county DA), but the series is no longer on the website. I guess someone high up did not like it. In NJ, people who complain about excessive government salaries have bene known to get phone calls at 2 in the morning.

• $100K Club -- Police officers in northeast New Jersey routinely make more than $100,000 in total pay. They are among more than 10,000 government employees in New Jersey who earn that much, according to state payroll and pension records.

* * *

• Overdosing on overtime -- Overtime lifts police pay well above $100,000 in even middle-income communities. Police in Butler earn base salaries $10,000 less than many of their counterparts in wealthier areas of North Jersey, but they make up for it with time-and-a-half. Their average total pay in 2005 exceeded $100,000.

• Rewriting Genesis -- For police in Alpine and other towns, the week isn't seven days, but six -- four days on and two days off. The result is 17 extra days off a year, beyond holidays and vacation.

• Golden years -- Ridgewood police Sgt. Paul Gilard retired on June 30, 2005. His total compensation for the year was $187,115, including a retirement payout of nearly $130,000. He'll receive an annual pension of $73,000 for the rest of his life. He's 48 years old.

http://www.myshortpencil.com/schooltalk/messages/2522/5261.html

Once again, stevejhx manipulates his data to fit his own agenda. I really feel sorry for the guy. No wonder he can't keep a job.

His "facts" are from a NYPD recruitment site...where they quote what their top pay will be in 2011, working midnights to allow for full night shift differential.

He disregards reality and posts what his world is.

"Firefighters, whose contracts call for built-in overtime and 20-year retirements, "cost" an average of $186,464 each.

Cops, with similarly generous benefits, came in at $164,045. Teachers and other instructional personnel averaged $98,505. The remaining civilian workers brought up the rear at $83,279."

You guys are all idiots. Your sad that you have crummy jobs and are taking it out on city workers.

"they are not going bankrupt."

Actually, yes they are.

"Right now, only 34% of the NYPD police officers are at top pay."

That will always be the case, at any given time. But they will get there, and retire.

"They only collect 50% of their pension upon their 20 years, not full pay"

No. They collect 50% of their last 3 years' salary as tax-free retirement. They collect 100% of that immediately.

"where they quote what their top pay will be in 2011, working midnights to allow for full night shift differential."

No. It specifically says 2010, and that it DOES NOT include any differentials.

"He'll receive an annual pension of $73,000 for the rest of his life. He's 48 years old."

How long is that sustainable for?

Do the math. 1 million median households in NYC to support the retirement benefits just of today's police officers.

Can't be done.

stevejhx, you REALLY are an idiot.

they average their top 3 years worth of pay and then get 50% of that....do you even know any cops? My brother is one, and I had the contract right in front of me. They do not collect 100% of anything, except their health coverage. Plus, they contribute 3% into their own pension.

They only get 50% of their top 3 years averaged, not 100%.

The $90,829 you quoted is as of Jan 2011, with that $4262 of it being FULL night differential, meaning full midnights.

And their health care and pension have been that way for a very very long time now. It is not a recent phenomenon. Considering the stress being a police officer puts on their body, most of them do not get to enjoy very long into their retirement. You act like this is breaking news. It's very old news.

Leave the civil servants alone, Mr. Republican. They work very hard for this city, unlike you.

Perhaps steve will be happy when cops only make minimum wage?

... hate civil servants... those were the B/C grade kids that didn't go to college... but nothing "physically" wrong with them? I am not trying to start a fight... no I'm not.. .no seriously i'm not... Cops are as dumb as nails! They literally spend hours a day talking to one another to "game" the system and what's the cushiest jobs etc... Yep you can quote me on that...

uh oh... oldbuyers may have access to firearms... :)

"do you even know any cops?"

My uncle is one and my cousin is one, so yes. I do.

"They do not collect 100% of anything, except their health coverage."

No. They collect 100% of their pension, which is 50% of their earnings, immediately.

"Plus, they contribute 3% into their own pension."

No. They USED to, but they don't anymore.

"their health care and pension have been that way for a very very long time now"

What does it matter?

"Considering the stress being a police officer puts on their body"

For the past 10 years I've lived within 1 block of a precinct. They're not very stressed. I buy lunch at the same bodega with them.

"most of them do not get to enjoy very long into their retirement"

Really? The website quotes 35 years of retirement.

"Leave the civil servants alone, Mr. Republican."

Not a Republican, sorry. It's not about them, it's about the inability of the New York City workforce to pay those benefits in the long-term. It's not personal - it's actuarial.

No one I know could go through day after day what the cops and firemen go through....whatever they make is fine with me.

I read that nyc cops were quitting and signing to work in nassau because of the low pay in nyc.

Steve, the corporate pension system isn't working right now so well either. And corporations have been counting pension surpluses on their balance sheets, and projecting never-ending increasing amounts. I think this was one of Buffett's major points about the flaws in corporate balance sheets. Actuarially, some companies are doing worse right now than the public sector, which is short about $850 billion in their pension plans (although NYC is not, right now).

We need a new system.

oldbuyers...50% of the TOP three years earnings cherry picking where overtime is at it's highest means that the pension is often 100% of Base or more. If someone gets a lifetime annuity of 100% of Base Pay from age 50, this would cost approximately 25 to 30 times Base Pay if we were to buy an annuity in the open market. Call this a benefit worth $2mm to be on the low side of estimates.

An example of cost escalation would be if someone chose to work $25,000 of overtime in each of their last 3 years before retirement, this would result in an additional cost $312,500 using a 25 cost multiplier on $12,500 of additional pension. So the cost is actually $387,500 including the additional pension. So instead of time and a half, someone is actually getting 5.66 x hourly rate for overtime worked in these final 3 years. Is it any wonder that the system is prone to abuse and people there are huge spikes in overtime as employees seek to maximize their pensinoable salary.

Are these pensions funded each year in an actuarially sound manner like any private sector firm must do? Of course not; it's simply another example of government choosing to mortgage our future to the kids who'll have to pay for our profligacy.

I'm not saying that civil servants don't deserve an honest wage but let's be honest the real costs rather than dressing them up as low salaries with enormous hidden benefits costs.

"whatever they make is fine with me."

It's just not possible to require 1 million households in a city with 3 million households to pay the retirement benefits of 23,000 people.

"corporations have been counting pension surpluses on their balance sheets, and projecting never-ending increasing amounts."

a) that's now illegal, and b) taxpayers aren't paying for it.

"let's be honest the real costs rather than dressing them up as low salaries with enormous hidden benefits costs."

How about high salaries and high benefits?

So I guess you'll be applying for a City job, Steve, since they pay so much better than yours does?

Taxpayers aren't paying for it? The next bailout is just tomorrow's news away. Many companies pension funds aren't meeting their funding percentages NOW because they took a bath.

"since they pay so much better than yours does"

They certainly have better retirement programs, but I don't ever plan to retire.

"They certainly have better retirement programs, but I don't ever plan to retire."

The retirement benefit of City jobs is clearly something that seems attractive to you. I suppose it's too late to apply for the Police Academy, and they start at around $35,000, but they're not starting a new Academy class, or graduating one or whatever. However, I'm sure you can find something you're qualified for.

Leave it to lowery to change the subject. The problem is our ability to afford it, not the absolute cost of it. Pay them whatever - if it's affordable.

lowery... mmmmm $35K./yr to maybe pull your revolver once or twice in 20 yrs.. or get shot at on a nightly basis in Irag/Afghanistan? Which would I choose... hmmmmmm.... which would you choose... GET a F'n moral compass... or at least adjust yourz.... :) peace out ...

Oh shoot.. .that goes for you oldbuyers... how many dishes did your wife do today? After like 1000, she getz a coffee break?

So I guess that means you're not interested in one of those great jobs, then, Steve?