My neighbor is undercutting my price... please help. building at 10 West 66th Street

HR... oh now it's page 2 :) trying to keep up with Westie :)

The first duplex I ever saw was back in early 80's, somehow my hood friends and I befriended a preppie on the east side... he invited us to his apt off 5th, it literally had a marble spiral staircase at least 10 feet wide... so while yes I am impressed with 10/11.... it seems so "new money" :) a step short of a 36 inch spiral staircase in downtown lofts :)....

Westie... hmmmm my daughter is into throwing a frisbee now... maybe that apt will suffice on cold days :).... but it defeats the purpose in living in NYC.. the point is to be out and about :) and not playing soccer indoors :)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/378840-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york?email=true
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/365251-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york?email=true

and the band played on :)

top one is 21st fl... bottom one is 15th fl...
neighbor vs. neighbor... that's why I'm never friendly in my building :) Never know when I gotta cut your nutz off :)

and they are both crazy overpriced

And the building that started it all :)

Both D line. $151K Price Chop and 4 floors apart :)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/355451-coop-10-west-66th-street-lincoln-square-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/228629-coop-10-west-66th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

Enjoy the feast/famine!

The war is on on Park Avenue. Great building. Perfect location (for the UES, that is). Great apartments. Killer maintenance. It's a race to the bottom....

↓ $3,850,000
730 Park Avenue #11C 2 beds
↓ $3,400,000
730 Park Avenue #13C 2 beds

Happyrenter: Same agent for both listings. You see a war. I see a strategy.

and the strategy is?

No idea. But it's hard to have a war with the same general on both sides.

W81st.... the generals report to politicians so perhaps its the case where the owners are actually setting the ask prices. Or, better stated, perhaps one owner is listening to the market/broker while the other remains oblivious.

The broker's strategy is probably something like....Great, I have one 'sell-able' apartment so lets be aggressive on pricing. Then, once the more aggressive seller goes to contract, I have leverage over the dreamer. Either he moves, or stops wasting my time.

west81st,

there may indeed be a strategy, but as far as i can tell the effect is the same as a war. 730 Park 11C just got a 600k chop today:

StreetEasy History
11/18/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $4,500,000
12/05/2008 Price decreased to $3,850,000
02/17/2009 Price decreased to $3,250,000

ohhhh.... I think the maid's quarter can work out as an in-law/guest apt... HRenter...

yeah... can a broker chime in what the strategy is for the same line in a bldg if you represent both... does one seller say "I'll give an extra 1%?" Inquiring minds want to know....

when the apartment has usable maids-rooms like this, i think it works well to put young kids in the maids rooms and use the 'staff hall' as a play area/storage area, and then you can use the second bedroom as a library. i have never understood putting young children in huge rooms.

For $3.3MM.. my kids better start bringing in a W-2... :)

Bet it'll go for $2.75 if they want a deal done NOW... IMHO :) If it gets close to $2.2MM maybe I'll think ab Park Ave... it's got a certain "ring" to it....

murderous neighbors are prowling the halls at 51 5th avenue.

11C is on the market for $2.7 million; 9C just came on the market for 1.995--that's 27% less.

14A is on the market for 2.695; now 12A is on the market for 3.05. incredibly the broker for 12A tells that it is also available for rent for $8,000, which means that they are trying to sell it for 30x annual rent. and it has a high maintenance to boot.

meanwhile all of these apartments look significantly overpriced when compared with 12B, a much larger apartment with a much better layout, albeit in somewhat worse condition (although none are mint) which is asking 2.395 and hasn't sold.

771 West End Avenue is a well-managed Schwartz & Gross co-op where the competition between the two listed sevens had been rather sleepy because the heirs to #7A seem content to write maintenance checks indefinitely.

Today, though, things got more interesting in the classic-six "B" line. #9B had already taken a $255K haircut after less than two weeks on the market. Now comes a new CBHK listing for #5B, also renovated, undercutting #9B by another $400K, or 21%. Both apartments are renovated. #9B has a view of the river from one bedroom.

So much for my theory that resident brokers are reluctant to cut prices. She may have been held back on #7A, but she's making up for it in the "B" line.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/771-west-end-avenue-manhattan

215 East 73rd: This Bing & Bing building has a duel among its A line (five rooms, with 3 full baths and 2 or 3 beds depending on your minimum standard for a bedroom).

9A has been on the market since December 2008. After coming to market at $1,975,000 it's now at $1,895,000. The owner bought it in September 2007 for $1,700,000 and doesn't seem to fully grasp the current market (ironic since she works in finance). The owners before the current owner did a very nice renovation. This owner has supposedly sunk a lot of money into it, but none of it is obvious or necessary (recessed TV unit in a living room wall where you can't actually place furniture to watch the TV, as well as strange glass shelves in a corner of the living room that seem perfect for an old grannie to display her Hummel collection). Overall, it's a nice apt., but still very overpriced.

Enter 2A, which came on the market in mid-February. It's kind of a wreck. The kitchen was done a few years ago, but poorly so. They spent money on a Sub-Zero and thought that it would make up for the Ikea cabinets and gaps between different countertop materials and appliance seams. It's prices at $1,350,000 to account for the peeling paint, very dark interior, and overall need of TLC.

Clearly there's a huge differential in condition and light between the two apartments, but my bet is on 2A going to contract first. At least the owners seem to be aware of market conditions, as well as the shortcomings of their unit. That's not to say the price is enticing right now, but it shows a certain amount of reason, which might just entice an offer.

Thanks for insightful play-by-play on 771 WEA.

Happyrenter saw the makings of a poker game at 1165 Park Avenue when #14C came on the market $500K below its upstairs neighbor. Sure enough, #15C has matched at $3.495MM:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=910863
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/1165-park-avenue-manhattan

Follow-up on 771 WEA: I saw #9B yesterday. It does have good light, central air and a lovely view from the master bedroom. On the other hand, the kitchen is very dated despite the applianc upgrades, with a strange pass-through to a hallway, and the "tastefully preserved" original bathrooms are in fair condition at best. #5B is probably dark at the rear of the apartment, with five windows facing airshafts. But the main rooms face south across 97th, so they shouldn't be affected as much by elevation. In short, the $400K spread doesn't seem remotely justified, especially if the condition of #5B is as advertised. The listing agent for #9B did not take kindly to this point.

happyrenter... can i use "murderous neighbors?"

kas242 and westie, thanks for the blow by blow...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/10-west-66-street-new_york
and back to the bldg that started it all.... I think the E line wants some action too.... "murderous neighbors?"

Can someone find out what 5D actually closed for? If I were 16 or 20D, I'd try to get out b/f 5D becomes a comp... but what the hell do i know, I gotta pick up a used car :) this afternoon. Sorry exit2, I was just playing with you, I'm picking up my 07' 997T today...3K miles for .... drum roll please..... $83K.... LMAO, I passed it up when Manhattan Motorcars had it for $100K and that one had 20K miles and not all the options I wanted... (that was 2 months ago) let's see how this thing does in slippery conditions... see getting paid to wait...

I might also pick up a rolls royce... .I hear the RE broker wants me to trade in my honday odyssey for it.. :)

290 West End
#3C for 2.4mm
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/372302-coop-290-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
or #12C for $3.5mm
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/375657-coop-290-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

Sure the 9 floor difference is material. Is it worth $1.1mm? I doubt it.

And similar at 333 West End - 3B just came on at a 900k discount to the same line (already decreased once) 9 floors higher. Add in a low-floor 6 just undercut by the new 7 for extra credit.

Active Listings (4)
↓ $3,200,000 333 West End Avenue #12B 3 beds
$2,400,000 333 West End Avenue #5A 2 beds
$2,295,000 333 West End Avenue #3B 3 beds

333 gets a little 'spicier' since the two listings are both at Corcoran with two different brokers. Both of whom have a signficant penetration/market presence in the UWS market.

mpaltrow/walter7 thxs for contribution.... Is it just me or when I see a listing like the ones you posted, I immediately put the lower priced unit for one asking higher price (at least in my mind). For example, if I even entertained 3C for $2.4MM, I know I should be able to pick up 12C for $2.4MM w/o breaking a sweat negotiating, no?

the 333 west end listings are not similar in value. on the 12th floor you have beautiful, open views. on the 3rd floor you don't. but even more significantly, all three bedrooms face west end, which means on the 3rd floor you are looking at

i think 12B is significantly overpriced and that 3B may represent a new price level for nice classic 7s (i think it's significantly nicer than the 3rd floor at 290, for instance, at a similar price). but wherever these ultimately trade we should expect 12B to sell for a lot more than 3B.

New development undercutters. Hard to tell if anyone has moved in yet in either place. I guess I need a ruling W67thstreet. Does it still qualify as neighbor versus neighbor if neither is actually living there?

170 East End Avenue
4F versus 5F

5F
StreetEasy History
05/28/2008 Previous sale closed for $3,400,000
06/01/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $6,000,000
10/06/2008 Price decreased to $5,000,000
02/06/2009 Price decreased to $4,650,000
02/24/2009 Price decreased to $4,250,000

4F
StreetEasy History
05/28/2008 Previous sale closed for $3,500,000
01/29/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $4,100,000
02/11/2009 Price decreased to $3,750,000

Maybe 4F is still smarting from paying $100,000 more than 5F. Closed the same day.

In any case the race is on.

BTW, when is one required to stop calling an apartment "brand new"? If it's a year later but still no one has moved in can you still call it "brand new"? 2 years? Or is there no limit as long as nobody has lived there?

Neighbors undercutting each other - townhouses. 132 & 130 West 70th have been on the market for a year. One of them started at 6.5m (correct me if I'm wrong). 19-footers, 5 stories, all free-market rentals (but >4 apts, so higher tax rate & commercial financing). Now 132 is at 4.25, 130 is at 4.5m.

Yo jake!... it's like a used car... all cars are used once you put 1 mile on it... for a home my "definition" of a used home is when someone other than you or your family has used the toilet... so ALL homes are "used"... I am gonna guarantee you unless you were watching the workmen putting in the toilet or watching every broker since the day the home was finished... someone else has sat on your CROWN :)

Back to 5F/4F... didn't they get the memo.... 5-08 was at the absolute peak of the greatest bubble in NYC RE in 500 yrs.... but they still want to cover their closing costs..... it should be how much can I not lose mentality. LMAO. Good luck with their sales :), maybe they should combine as a duplex and list it for $12MM..... LMAO....maybe agentrachel thinks that's a great idea.. ."BRING YOUR ARCHITECTS!!!!"

nyc10023....WOW $2MM to walk 15 feet.... I wonder if the owners ever see each other when clearing the snow? Maybe they should have a snowball fight? :)

pre war coop neighbor vs. neighbor on fifth avenue:

$2,250,000 1170 Fifth Avenue #13C 2 beds
$1,995,000 1170 Fifth Avenue #14C 2 beds
↓ $1,950,000 1170 Fifth Avenue #6C 2 beds 1,750 ft²

And after a couple of price cuts 12C was taken off the market with a last ask of $2,595,000. 5C closed 09/17/2007 for $2,575,000 and in 2005 a number of C's traded for $1.5mm to $1.6mm.

5C's buy not looking too good.

11D looks like a mirror image but smaller and seems aspirationally priced at $2,599,000. Does that line face the park? If not it's way too high. About the same price as 9D which got pulled off the market too.

Wow! As I look closer 13D and 14D were duplexed and on the market last fall but did not trade:

04/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $7,100,000
05/07/2008 Price decreased to $5,900,000
05/15/2008 Price decreased to $4,950,000
09/14/2008 Price decreased to $3,900,000
10/29/2008 Price increased to $4,200,000
11/03/2008 Corcoran listing no longer available

15B is a great data point, traded quickly and very close to ask. Maybe 14B will too. We'll see. But that's 10 listings and only 2 closings in a little over a year. Fifth Avenue people! Fifth Avenue!

AM I to understand (in British accent)... that units in this building on 5th avenue are actually lowering its prices? Oh my, I do not want to live in a building that cannot withstand a minor depression. How very poor of them.....

When is tea being served? Tranny/Nanny/banker... chop chop... I don't have all day.

Even the venerable St. Urban may be showing signs of competition. Corcoran just came to market with #3S at $6.995MM. That seems awfully high for the third floor, but if it slips, that listing could put some pressure on another Corcoran offering, #8S at $7.4MM.

Meanwhile, at the $9.9MM price point (if there still is such a thing), buyers can choose between the 5700 sq.ft. sprawl of #6NE and the "fabled" penthouse, which even Lisa Lippman can't sell.

By the standards of a building where living owners never leave, this qualifies as an active market.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/285-central-park-west-manhattan

Morning W81.... got away from the wife for 10 minutes... sorta promised her I'd stay away from SE :) but logged and can't help myself....

AGREED there is no more $10MM market :) ..... my e-mail is is full of new listings and price chops in the heart of the 3 bdrm market... it's even scaring me.. we'll that's all for now.... picking pineapples these two weeks... oh...

Hope all is going smoothly with Julia... and Agentrachel.... pls get a tape measure... no not to measure yourself! :) signing off for now.. :)

IS 10 W 66th that good a building - this 20D place I measured at <1300 internal s.f. before the terrace. So 2m is still 1540 per internal s.f.? The people who bought the same line for 2.5m in late 2007 must be pleased....

Re: 132 & 130 West 70th - 132 is down to $4MM...130 still at $4.5MM
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349484-multi-132-west-70th-street-lincoln-square-new-york?email=true
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376831-multi-130-west-70th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

I'm interested in 130 & 132. Would put a 3-handle bid on both. Only issue is that taxes are high because of the high # of units, would have to convert to a 3-family.

West81: like 67, I am signing on from 15-20 degrees N latitude. The St Urban is a mess. I have been in every one of these units. 8S is the cream of the crop and it should trade for 4.5mm or so, not 7mm. Very cool, funky apt, but needs some work to reconfigure, freshen for a family lifestyle. The PH is a joke. Bachelor pad central, but '70's style, simply no way for a family to deal with it. 6NE is, not sure how to describe, a nightmare. Believe it or not, owner actually bought too many units. The western, interior piece of the apt serves no useful purpose. Once you get back to the large family room, it should be over. Anyway, to deserve top dollar, it needs to be in top layout and condition, and it is neither. Wifey and I actually like most of the space a bunch, but feel the dollars needed to get it to our specs make the ask seem just wrong. And we havn't even started on the maintenance number. In all honesty, I think the PH and 6NE just won't trade at all, owners will just stay put and change their plans about moving.

Patient: there's a property adjacent to the penthouse, and if you could buy both, it would make an extraordinary property with tons of outdoor space. the view is not spectacular because of the window placement, but that tower if pretty nifty...

Patient09: Wonderful stuff. Thanks for checking in. Enjoy the rest of your trip.

The broker next door is a piece of work.
My advice, take the apartment off the market and let them sink or swim. Once they have found the bottom you can start the climb back up.

In the "A" line at 784 Park Avenue, Elliman's Whitney Gettinger is waging a price war with... Elliman's Whitney Gettinger:
↓ $3,000,000 784 Park Avenue #9A 2 beds
↓ $3,395,000 784 Park Avenue #7A 2 beds

Interesting corner seven: basically a huge classic six with a second maid's room. Quite flexible. #7A opened at $4.195MM in September, and has already taken two big cuts. #9A just dropped $495K, to $3MM. http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1073531
Presumably, the brokers have spoken to the owners of #7A about another cut. We'll see what they do.

#6A and #4A both sold in early 2005 for just under $3MM, so the line seems to have retrenched that far already.

that's my favorite pricewar west81st. she's such a wily competitor. you just never know what tricks she's going to pull against herself.

i also happen to think those apartments are absolutely fantastic. maidsrooms are more than large enough for one kid in each, and that leaves space for a den/family room/playroom/library. very elegant and expansive room sizes, and the maintenance, while not low, is not outrageous for such a swanky apartment and location.

Here's a twist on the price-war theme:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/251-west-95-street-new_york

The owners of #6N appear to have fired their downstairs neighbor as listing agent after a year. Could make for an awkward elevator ride.

04/06/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $944,384.
04/02/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $2,695,000.
04/16/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $2,495,000.
07/21/2008 Listing is no longer available.
08/29/2008 Re-listed by Stribling.
10/30/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $2,350,000.
02/18/2009 Price decreased by 15% to $1,999,000.
03/13/2009 Listing is no longer available.
04/01/2009 Currently Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,850,000.

It always seemed a little odd for the broker to represent #6N while trying to sell her own apartment three floors down.

OK, not an under-cutting example, but should be....

19F has been on the market since July '07. Investor-owned and also available to rent. Currently vacant.

Along comes 26F and offers the same floorplan, in largely the same condition, for 25% MORE! And the seven additional floors mean very little at that elevation.

$2,950,000 150 Columbus Avenue #26F 2 beds 1,609 ft²

↓ $2,350,000 150 Columbus Avenue #19F 2 beds 1,609 ft²
Open House: Thu, Apr 02 (12:00 - 1:30)

04/06/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $944,384.
04/02/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $2,695,000.

GMAFB. Burn.

walter7/Jerkstore :)

And the building that started neighbor "lovin." http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/10-west-66-street-new_york

16D just cut $150K... and 9/10 units in market cut pricing.... hmmm... I believe this is called "building specific deflationary pressure."

Enjoy.... and why does MarilynKorn have so many listing in this bldg, it's not like they have an office there? :)

So "proximity" is 90% of realtor's competitive advantage... Ohhhh... I get why they say, all RE is "local."

Anyone have insight to offer on these?

http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=35801

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/380791-coop-127-west-96th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

LookingAround, judging from the floorplans and the almost identical maintenance, they seem to be the same unit in different floors. I don't know why one is listed as C and the other as CD, but they are so big that I would suspect they're the result of combination. Bottom line: one is awake to the condition of the market and is undercutting the other by 300K. In fact, at first sight it looks like 1800 sqf at least, which means they could easily list it as 2200 and the boast that it's being offered at less than $500 per sf. Maintenance is also reasonable, and even low, for such a size. Only downside is (I assume you have children) PS75 is so-so at best.

Oops, you were talking about offer: I don't think CD would take more than a 10-15% cut, since they are already undercutting virtually all of the UWS. The other unit you have to offer 500K less.

Trompiloco: #9CD might be listed as #9C to avoid recognition as the resale of an apartment that sold for $1.295MM in early 2007, just before the market peak: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/56451-coop-127-west-96th-street-upper-west-side-new-york. That history suggests a 2009 price around a million or even less, cheap as that may seem for apartments this size.

I don't know why the building has historically traded so low; the pricing seems to go beyond what the unlovely location and so-so school catchment would explain. One special problem for these south-facing apartments is that the view across 96th is truly ghastly. Aesthetically, 127 itself seems OK. It would be wise to check for assessments for the recent upgrades, and to see what's left in the reserve fund.

West81st, you're unmatched. One thing I wanted to ask you, regarding the generally higher maintenance in the UES doorman bldgs. vs the UWS doorman bldgs. (with the exception of Lincoln Ctr. area): could part of the reason be that the buildings assessments may have been set during the times when the UWS was effectively cheaper that the UES? I mean, right now, I have the impression that morningside heights and West 90s close to the park are more expensive that most parts of Yorkville on a psf basis. But that wasn't so 30yrs ago, right? Not even close. So, maybe the generally lower maintenance has something to do with that, too?

Trompiloco: You're on to something, though obviously there's a lot of variation from building to building. I think there probably is a culture of frugality in many West Side coops that stems from the neighborhood's rougher days. Even the prestige addresses may be a bit more careful with their money than comparable East Side buildings. It's also probably fair to say that coops in any neighborhood that have kept maintenance and debt burdens low and built solid reserves should see their prices hold up comparatively well during a downturn, as buyers become more alert to risks and more thorough in their due diligence.

Thanks for the answer, West81st. The way I see it, if the market continues going south at top speed, we will be facing a situation in many doorman bldgs. in the UES (and not land-leases gone wrong or anything like that) in which your maintenance and your mortgage amounts won't be terribly different, say, for Jr4 where you put 30% down. That's insane. Factor in the inflation that will result from the gazillion treasuries we're printing and by 2015 you'll be paying more in CC than mortgage.

799 Park Avenue, D line, has some action. More of a minor price skirmish than a price war at this point. Or maybe they think that the hunt for a greater fool is better conducted in a pack.

17D listed 3/3/09 for $2,450,000
7D listed 1/17/09 for $2,350,000
16D currently asking $1,999,000 (initially $2,200,000 in Sept. followed by four tiny cuts)

8D was also in the mix at $2,400,000 until it was pulled from the market last week.

Nothing yet suggests that any of these sellers are serious. 17D and 7D are asking 40% and 48% premiums, respectively, to previous sales in 2006 and 2005, respectively. 8D initially listed at $2,700,000, a 52% premium to a 12/06 previous sale and the ask was still +35% when it was pulled.

hunting in packs!

the price decreases are like little shuffle steps... it's annoying.... I'm waiting for a DDD to set the "market."

4 West 21st Street, B line

6B closed 4/1/09 for $1.45mm
4B currently listed for $1.575mm

Why even bother?

215 west 75th street.

3B isn't selling in the mid 5s:
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/15/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $575,000.
04/03/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $549,000

So today 4B comes on the market in the low 7s:
STREETEASY HISTORY
04/21/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $710,000.

even with the difference in condition, this is just a waste of time.

by the way, 9C--a similar one bedroom--is in contract with a final ask of 575k.

WOW

1170 5th Avenue 13/14D
After a year of chasing the market down with corcoran, this 5th avenue duplex (2 classic sixes) was just relisted with BHS for less than half the initial asking price

STREETEASY HISTORY
04/23/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $7,100,000.
05/07/2008
Price decreased by 17% to $5,900,000.
05/15/2008
Price decreased by 16% to $4,950,000.
07/28/2008
Delisted temporarily.
09/02/2008
Re-listed by Corcoran.
09/14/2008
Price decreased by 21% to $3,900,000.
10/19/2008
Listing is no longer available.
10/29/2008
Price increased by 8% to $4,200,000.

04/21/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,500,000.

Meanwhile, 2 floors down, one classic six is available for

11D
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/05/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,599,000.

Recorded Sale
07/21/2005 #7D $1,700,000

so the duplex is now asking the equivalent of double one much lower floor unit from 2005. The premium for large apartment is just gone.

Good Neighbor did not undercut:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/291-central-park-west-manhattan (Dwight School)

$2,800,000
#5W 3 beds 1,800 ft²
Open House: Wed, May 06 (11:00 - 12:30)

$3,390,000
#4W 4 beds 1,858 ft²
Open House: Tue, May 05 (5:30 - 7:00)

Come on people... i leave for a few days and my thread is buried :)

Ahhhhh my favorite bldg :)

Yo bitch... I'm six floors above you and I'm gonna price it $145K cheaper....
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/365251-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/378840-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york

Lets' keep this dipshit honest... it's the same listing... it's not 2 days old, but 324 days old... sorta colors it little different, no?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/411949-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/306955-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york

w67. welcome back. politically correct as ever!

on the 2 days vs. 324 days, it looks like a classic stupid broker tricks delisting-relisting thing, but it's actually the Edward Lee Cave listing getting taken down and replaced by a BHS listing since BHS bought Cave. Of course from the broker's standpoint it has the beneficial side effect of accomplishing a little listing history 3 card monte in the process.

Same thing happened to one of my saved listings the other day. I pinged SE support to see if they could combine the listings so people don't lose the history. We'll see what happens. You should send in the ones you follow as well so they don't slip through.

At http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/246-west-end-avenue-new_york 10A and 11A, too bad both aren't having open houses tomorrow. Want to see just where they think the $300K difference is.

NWT: yeah, this is a puzzling building (we've discussed before). Why would anyone buy a two bedroom in an okay location, when they can now buy a classic 6 for less in a similar location? Crazy.

Update on the "B" line at 20 West 77th: #6B closed for $1.075MM a few weeks ago. It was on the market just two weeks, and got full asking price. Solid job by Heddings and team, who made this apartment a pilot test for their "25% below peak" campaign. The key, though, was probably a seller too smart to delude herself about value and/or too rich to care about $100-200K one way or the other.

Did you see the absorption chart on truegotham (Hedding's blog)? WS has the longest absorption rate for co-ops...

Thanks, 10023. The numbers at the high end are stunning. There may be some distortion from properties listed in one price bracket selling at a lower level; but in a way, that pattern underscores the problem for high-end sellers.

Here's one, introduced further up the page, where we can see the whole thing play out through closing.

4 West 21st
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/351595-condop-4-west-21st-street-chelsea-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/359551-4-west-21st-st-chelsea-new-york
4B came on the market last September, undercutting 6B
6B cut in October, undercutting 4B
4B cut a week later, undercutting 6B
6B went to contract in December and closed in April, undercutting 4B
4B went to contract in later in April (after the 6B price was public) and closed in June 8.6% below the 6B price

06/02/2009 #4B $1,325,000 -13.1% $1,525,000
04/01/2009 #6B $1,450,000 -12.1% $1,650,000

aboutready, this is an example for your it-only-gets-worse-for-the-second-seller theory

Both sales at 4 West 21 did well for themselves. Forget what we once imagined they were worth, today both sellers recieved very reasonable sale prices.

The 4A folks will be sticking pins in voodoo dolls of the donwstairs neighbors. This is what price destruction looks like.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391399-coop-103-east-84th-street-upper-east-side-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/408042-coop-103-east-84th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

Yes!!!
Great one Sideline.
The folks in 4A are going to have a tough time talking up that superior view.
I'll bet we see 4A vanish from the market.

that takes my breath away sidinesitter... HOLY MOLY.

7B must be thrilled, too.

sidelinesitter, nice find. Anyone know why the kitchen is so much bigger in 4A though? Not that it's worth $600k, but still, a bit odd, no?

103 East 84th, 4 West 21st, etc. have all been fine investments for their owners unless they bought for short-term.

WeepingTissues: That's probably true. The folks who have big paper losses at 103 West 84th are the 2008 buyers of #2B and #6C, not the long-term "A"-line owners. Maybe those recent purchases will work out OK in the long run. Buyer's remorse being what it is, though, it's hard to imagine the owners sitting in those $2.1MM+ classic sixes singing "Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien" when sevens are dropping under $1.5MM.

bjw, in the plans the two kitchens are the same size, both combining the original kitchen and maid's room, with maid's bath left in the middle. Maybe 4A's looks bigger in the picture.

Weeping - just to clarify the meaning of your post, are you saying that you believe these apts are fine investments at these prices (i.e., they will turn out well for the new owners)? If so, all anyone can say is that time will tell.

The reason that I ask is that the post is phrased in the past tense, which on its face is a statement that the sellers still did well at 2009 sale prices. I don't know about the E 84 property or 6B on 21st St, but the 4B sellers bought in 2006 at $1,885,000 and lost well over half a million dollars (probably closer to 700K with transaction costs coming and going). That would be a fine investment only if the alternative had been Lehman Brothers or AIG stock.

If you are looking for a 2-3-4 year purchase, then that is different from buying a place to have a stable home for the kids to grow up in.

Weeping: Not only is your statement absurd, the opposite is actually true at 4W21.

At this point, no one at 4W21 can "have" done well for a long term hold. The building didn't close until 2006. You might say that they "will" do well (unlikely), but to say they "have" been fine investments is silly.

In fact, the only people at 4W21 for whom the investment has been "fine" so far are the SHORT-TERM holders who flipped immediately.

sidelinesitter/SkinnyNsweet: Good catch. I was only looking at 103 East 84th. By the way, the principal in the #4B purchase/sale at 4W21 has an ACRIS trail that looks more like an addiction (or a very costly hobby) than an investment strategy.

The duel at 1165 Park ended with no clear winner. #15C was bludgeoned into a lowball sale, 20% below final ask and probably 35-40% below a 2008 contract that fell through. #14C went to contract recently, but that deal may have collapsed. The listing has expired, and it seems to have vanished from Streeteasy altogether.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/1165-park-avenue-manhattan

Howz about this. "Coming over the top."

I'll see your two bedroom and throw in another bedroom... call or fold?
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385778-coop-140-west-69th-street-lincoln-square-new-york
(2 bdrm for $1.225MM - on mkt for 138 days sold on 6-04 for $761K)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/434913-coop-140-west-69th-street-lincoln-square-new-york
(3bdrm listed for $1.229MM today).

I'd fold if I was the 2bdrm....

The battle of the W lines at 291 CPW is getting more interesting.

5W is asking 2.2m (http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391439-condo-291-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york) while 4W is still stuck at 3.39m (http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/406627-condo-291-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york). The difference of 1.2m is starting to make 4W's ask even more untenable. You could probably cover the whole apartment in gold leaf for that kind of money.

The building is kind of awkward - elevator building on CPW attached to a school (is that right?). But that size apartment with three proper bedrooms and a "study" in the PS87 zone is only 1-2 more price cuts away from attractive.

Chasing Classic 6's under $1.3M

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/410906-coop-325-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/392911-coop-325-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

bump11....

hsw9001... that's a nice chase that's going on... who've thunk classic six for $1.3MM, a year ago?

The exit door is getting crowded at 404 East 76th, C line.

18C $1,300,000
20C $1,295,000
28C $1,245,000
7C $1,245,000
10C $1,149,000

Price competition is fairly muted so far, with #28Cm the highest floor unit, taking a bit of a lead with a cut in June. The asks in 18C and 20C look somewhat aspirational and are right on top of 2007/08 peak comps. Price appreciation in this line wasn't huge during the run-up, with trades in the $1.15-$1.2mm range in 2005 and $1.25-$1.3mm in 2007/08, but it looks like there is some work to do to figure out where the current market clears. This may get more interesting if someone blinks and prints a 'new normal' kind of sale price for the other owners to reflect on.

The gloves are coming off at 55 CPW, G line. #6G changed the game when it listed in May and extended its price leadership with the July cut. #5G, an estate sale, is trying to get in the game with the cut last week, while #4G, the first to list, must be cursing the other two for starting a price war. Given that these three got through the active spell in the market in April-June without selling, the market seems to be saying that the price war has further to go.

#4G
04/09/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,400,000.
06/26/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $2,195,000.

#5G
04/29/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Domus Realty at $2,395,000.
08/08/2009 Price decreased by 21% to $1,900,000.

#6G
05/07/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,875,000.
07/01/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,725,000.

55 CPW building link
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/55-central-park-west-new_york

291 CPW 4W (discussed above) has apparently entered contract. I am quite curious what price has been agreed. I suppose the owners of 5W are also waiting to find out.

Aren't the maint. fees a bit high at 55 CPW? Are the financials in this building something to be concerned about?

sidelinesitter... nice pick up on the 55 CPW. MUST stop myself from gloating... must not jump the gun... must stay true to my bearish self

apt23, a bit high, but don't know what that says about financials. It's CPW, after all. The 5-room south-facing G-line is about $550 per room. The 4-room C-line, with one bedroom on the park, about the same. The big jump is in the 6-room park-facing D-line, at about $630 per room. You can see how the lines were valued by the sponsor when allocating shares.

The average for this search is about $465 per room: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sales/lincoln-square-manhattan/type:P|price:-5000000|beds>=2|baths>=2

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/446360-condo-1-river-terrace-battery-park-city-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/278994-condo-1-river-terrace-battery-park-city-new-york

That's over $750k for two floors lower in the same line.

Yes but one has the stainless refrigerator Ala pas470

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/465263-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york
23A list for $3.6MM.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/466821-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york
16A original list at $3.4MM, chopped day ago to $3.2MM and $200K above 9-05 prices.

So back to 05 price... nice nice

This fker comes out swinging! Duck 12GA... BTW 12GA listed at $990K 140 days on mkt
9AG (someone is trying the mind bending transpose letter Re borker jedi mind trick FLMAO) listed 1 day at $835K. Thereby kicking his neighbor three floorz up in the jimmy.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/471605-coop-230-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/500275-coop-230-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

Maybe the owner of 12GA had the popcorn scraped from the ceiling.

1 Gracie Square, fourth vs. fifth floor: The sale of #4 and the contract on #5 conclude a battle of park-facing Yorkville full-floors that matched prices and maintenance rebates.
Fourth Floor:
05/20/2009 Listed by Warburg at $4,495,000.
09/03/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $4,150,000.
11/25/2009 Listing entered contract.
04/14/2010 Sale recorded for $3,437,000
Fifth Floor:
09/19/2007 Listed by Warburg at $6,475,000.
12/18/2007 Price decreased by 4% to $6,245,000.
03/11/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $5,950,000.
05/14/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $5,495,000.
12/05/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $4,999,000.
01/08/2009 Delisted temporarily
04/15/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $4,499,000.
05/16/2009 Price decreased by 11% to $3,999,000.
12/06/2009 Listing is no longer available.
02/05/2010 Listing entered contract.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/1-gracie-square-new_york
The 2007-2008 listing for #5 was never realistic; odd to see a "motivated" seller overshoot that badly.

201 East 80th (Richmond). Clearly the elevation makes a difference here, but a 40% premium / $91k per floor seems like a lot. 16AB also appears to have a chunk of hallway that gives it an entry hall that 5AB lacks (and explains what I first thought was some square footage inflation in the 165AB listing).

201 East 80th Street #5AB 4 beds 2,083 ft² $2,500,000
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/531069-condo-201-east-80th-street-yorkville-new-york

201 East 80th Street #16AB 5 beds 2,200 ft² $3,500,000
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/541183-condo-201-east-80th-street-yorkville-new-york

ok...

check out 300 Riverside Drive 9A and 11A just hit the market.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/554496-coop-300-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-new-york

looks like they bought it 2 yrs ago for slightly less than $2.2 million and re-did kitchen and bathroom. now starting at $2.4

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/548708-coop-300-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-new-york

two floors up for $100,000 more---not clear about condition.

hopefully they have signed in blood to not lower either price.