Sale at 48 Hamilton Terrace, still overpriced?

Since it's listed for rent at a reasonable price, you could try it out for a year and leave if it doesn't go well.

Look into my crystal ball...I see...cast iorn...cast iorn bars...on all the windows(circa1974).
Like cast iorn? Next Question for the crystal ball?

lol, thanks falco

I live a few blocks away from Hamilton Terrace. It's a beautiful and quiet block. There is a general sense of pride (I always get the sense there are a lot of owners over here) on Hamilton Terrace and the block always seems cleaner than most of the neighborhod. I wouldn't worry too much about that sun room as a safety issue. I can't fully determine by the picture/floorplan, but it looks easy enough to secure that space from the bedroom and bath.

I moved to Hamilton Heights about 3 years ago- and it's improved considerably in that time (especially my block- which was one of the worst in the precinct). The amenities are still not great around here, but it seems to have improved considerably.

At the current price, I think it's getting close to bottom (although not quite yet). If you bought a townhouse shell for $1 (theoritically), what would it cost to make it habitable and compare what you would need to spend all-in for this one. I haven't seen this listing for myself (I am not in the market for a townhouse), so I don't know how much work this house needs, but I would factor that into the price. Obviously a lot of original pre-war detail factors into the price as well.

i like the area a lot, convent is beautiful and columbia will be there (in around 10 years?). that should bring better retail, which i think it's the main flaw of the area. but it's been a while since the last time i've been there. semerun, what's going on at night? is there anything to do close by if you don't want to stay at home?

Personally, I don't spend a lot of time hanging around the neighborhood at night unless I am staying in. You have the new restaurant row on 12th Ave @134th, St. Nick's pub on St. Nicholas and 149th (with some colorful characters). There is a large upscale (or at least appears to be) latin nightclub that opened in the last year or so on Broadway between 144th and 145th- but that's not my scene. OH, a restaurant/lounge with a memebers only section recently opened up on 145th where Baton Rouge once was. Also on Broadway, between 146th and 147th there is a new bar/lounge that looks nice- but I don't think the construction is finished yet.

Part of my purchase decision was impacted by the effect of Columbia moving into the area. This was my first purchase, but since I was able to get a much larger apartment here- the concept of a starter apartment was lost to a degree- It's large enough for me to meet a woman and possibly have a child or two should I need to stay here longer than I originally anticipated. I have sold my friend on the concept of buying an apartment in the area- but as much as the market is hurting, we aren't seeing a whole lot of inventory in the neighorhood - except for small walkups- which is not what she wants (she wants pre-war). Hopefully options will open up as spring approaches.

I do think the price declines are actually good for the neighborhood- as the run up was too much too fast- and now you can atttact younger professionals that were getting priced out and giving up. Columbia aside, the factors that drew me to the area was that the neighborhood was cleaning up fast (both in terms of crime and the buildings), easy access to multiple subways, low carrying charges- my real estate taxes are $3/month and my common charges are about $500/month and an apartment that was large enough to live in for a long time. The first year of living here was very wild west (as I mentioned before I live on what was one of the worst blocks in the 30th Precinct)- but this past year has improved considerably- with a lot of arrests and some evictions. I have a solid understanding of just how bad this economic downturn is- but yet, I am still LONG TERM bullish on the neighborhood. I just don't see it reverting back to the bad ole days of when my dad worked in the meatpacking plant on 12th Ave and the 130's when he came back from the Vietnam War and was chased by gangs (He initially thought I was nuts when I told him I wanted to buy a condo in Hamilton Heights- now he is bullish on the neighborhood long term too). In fact, I just don't easily see it reverting back to the point it was at 3 years ago, housing prices aside. I attend some of the police community meetings, and I see a very active vocal community that is seeing a very different demographic than they saw a few years ago. Perhaps in a few years I will be doing more around the neighborhood at night rather than staying downtown.

thanks semerun for all the info. personally, prices aside, i was impressed by the cuteness of the area and how relaxed it is. as you said, assuming gangs do not come back, it's going to keep on being very livable and columbia in terms of faculty moving there is going to have a huge impact.

you cannot go wrong with your purchase if you can hold 10 years or longer in my view if you bought long time ago. i do wonder whether people that don't plan to stay in nyc for that long, whether they will be willing to put up with the drawbacks of living in a major construction site. but it's going to be annoying for those living 125th to 133th closer to broadway i guess. the place was mostly warehouses anyway.

in terms of prices i'm afraid they will crash and stay low for a period of time as people that used to opt for uptown stop being priced out from lower manhattan. there's no positive force for years to come in my view, so the run up at least will be totally undone (thanks to the credit crash and the size of this past housing bubble), that is happening even faster than i expected.

Most of the housing from 125th to 133 near Broadway is on the east side of Broadway- and that is almost entirely housing projects. West of Broadway, your correct is mostly non-residential. What little residential there is was mostly city owned- in the process of becoming HDFC coops- but Columbia bought out those contracts and instead will build them brand new coops. One is just down the street from me on Broadway between 147th and 148th, which is why the stores are mostly vacant on this stretch right now- Columbia is waiting until all the leases are up to start demolition.

The part where I think we differ, is the choice of people considering uptown vs. downtown. I believe that uptown has now become a viable option for many people. Those that are on the cusp of choosing uptown vs. downtown that had no other choice because of being priced out will inevitably choose downtown- but I think the viability of a prolonged downturn is causing at least some people about thinking twice about buying a starter apartment, and instead considering something that is large enough to live in for a long time. Look at the threads of the past day on streeteasy- I don't know if it's an abnormal day, but I noticed several threads discussing potentially buying in Harlem (you would have never seen that 6-7 years ago). With incomes impacted as well as much more conservative lending from the credit crash, those that are truly middle class (well at least by NYC standards), will consider Harlem as opposed to be entirely being pushed out.

I am also more of the belief that this downturn could be (although not convinced yet) serious enough to change the behaviors of buyers- thinking both long term and conservative with an adversion to high debt levels. Living within your means hasn't been the American way for a long time- but if things get ugly enough it might be.

I would prefer living in Greenwich village over Hamilton Heights- but even if prices were identical to I paid for my apartment here, I still wouldn't have been able to afford a comparable apartment since the common charges and taxes tend to be a multiple higher than what I am paying for up here.

i agree with you 100%! common charges for me are key too, i bet that there will be more and more emphasis on those. the area where we live changed a lot too, and keeps on changing. we are next to morningside park and the other night several yellow taxes show up on a second. 3 years ago you rarely see them over here.

it's very interesting the change in buyer's attitude, it happened much faster than i expected. the quantity of articles, news and the like on "how to save a buck" still shocks me. given that transaction costs on real estate are so big, it makes a lot of sense for Gen X and Gen Y to skip the "starter home" and don't impair labor mobility on a bad market. we are skipping the starter and the 2nd stepping stone home purchase all together due to the housing bubble, the opposite of the mkt collapse. will try to buy the definitive only if prices are so low i cannot say no. otherwise, renting will do.

hey, it's possible that without guaranteed asset price appreciation buying a starting home doesn't make financial sense, that is, under normal mkt conditions.

semerun, great posts as always about the area. I tend to agree that this area will do well. Columbia won't solve every problem, but it will do more good than harm.

As for the townhouse in question, West81st makes a great point - if you're seriously looking at this place, the rent is relatively cheap, and it certainly makes sense to give it a test run if possible. The listing looks good and this is indeed one of the most pristine blocks in the area.