If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Upper East Side Edition

P09: Hard to say. I think of 1199 Park as a little outpost of Yorkville in Carnegie Hill. Park Avenue address; First Avenue building.

re: 1199 Park agent description includes the non-start words "rarely, if ever..."

DELETE

5th ave north of 96th is really hurting:

1170 5th Ave 6C
STREETEASY HISTORY
10/22/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,250,000.
01/29/2009
Price decreased by 13% to $1,950,000.
04/24/2009
Listing is no longer available.
05/01/2009
Re-listed by Corcoran.
05/01/2009
Price decreased by 21% to $1,550,000.

recorded sales
09/17/2007 #5C $2,575,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/316078-coop-446-east-86th-st-yorkville-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/378586-coop-446-east-86th-st-yorkville-new-york

9A just chopped below 4A. Both apartments are almost identical, but 9A has a view and more light.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/366870-coop-225-east-79th-street-yorkville-new-york

Sold in 2004 for 499K, now on the market for $499K.

2 bed in Lenox Hill sells for 60K less than a unit in the same line (lower floor and better renovation) sold for in 2006.
310 East 70th Street #10E in Lenox Hill
09/26/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $995,000.
11/27/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $949,000.
12/13/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $890,000.
01/29/2009 Listing entered contract.
04/21/2009 Listing sold.
04/21/2009 Sale recorded for $810,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/352594-coop-310-east-70th-st-lenox-hill-new-york

In 2006, unit 3E sold for 05/31/2006 Sale recorded for $870,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/9659-coop-310-east-70th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

Lovely apartment on lovely carnegie hill park block asking substantially less than the same unit 2007 sale price, and not much more than the lower floor comp from 2004:

4 East 94th Street 3B
05/04/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $2,250,000.

10/05/2007 #3B $2,545,000 +2.0% $2,495,000 3 beds 2 baths
05/31/2007 #6B $2,425,000 -4.9% $2,550,000 3 beds 2.5 baths
06/11/2004 #2B $2,000,000

NB: 9B, which sold for less, is a smaller apartment and is not a good comp.

here's one that's gone below early 2005 sales price.

220 E 65th, 6g. Sold for $1.61 in 04/05. Started at $1.865 in '08, now $1.595.

This is both a chopper and sort of a comp. I'm picking the two apartments that seem the most suitable for comping, without seeing their condition, but here goes. This is a combo, 7AG. 2G (much lower floor, obviously) sold for $625k in 06/07. 5A sold for $1.2m in 01/06. Neither at the peak, for a combined total of $1.85. The renovations miss a bit, but they had to have paid a fair amount. Floor plan is busy, maintenance is high but in line with size of apartment. A bing and bing 3/3 for under $1.4m.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/411375-coop-235-east-73rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

01/19/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,699,000.
06/06/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $2,099,000.
08/12/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,300,000.
03/05/2009 Bellmarc Listing is no longer available.
05/05/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,395,000.
05/05/2009 Also Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,395,000.

You can't really see the floorplan without the Bellmarc link.

http://www.bellmarc.com/search/profile.asp?list_num=E3170828T#

108 East 82nd Street #4C: Prime UES 7-into-6 retreats to its 2004 acquisition price.
StreetEasy History
06/24/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,950,000.
06/16/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,795,000.
11/06/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $2,495,000.
12/03/2008 Delisted temporarily.
04/21/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
04/21/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $2,249,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $1,975,000.

The renovation probably pre-dated the 2004 sale.

still seems expensive...with all kinds of cool stuff trading for $1,100-$1,300 per sqft in Carnegie Hill and the UWS why be east of park for $1,350 per sqft with bedrooms my ego can't fit in, much less my wife's shoe collection.

Sorry to go off the comps topic for a moment, but I just have to comment on the sale of 4A, which has to be the most unfortunate timing of any purchase I've seen yet. Price was chopped a few times last summer and the August chop obviously got a bit of a bidding war started. They got a deal done 4% above final ask. The deal shows up as in contract on 9/17, which we will recall was the Wednesday of the week that Lehman went down/the world changed. Assuming that the 9/17 date reflects a few days' delay in the agent updating the listing, this would be one of the very last contracts signed in the old version of reality.

Bringing this back to comps, 4A was an 8 with maintenance (proxy for square footage, esp. since on the same floor) 24% higher than 4C. The current ask on 4C is only 5% below where 4A closed, despite the apparently large difference in square footage and today's different market reality. Conclusion: patient09 is correct on the 4C value proposition at current ask.

(One counterpoint re: ppsf in Carnegie Hill vs. 80s east of Lex is that many of the Carnegie Hill listings are PS 198 (although some are PS 6), while 108 E 82 is PS 6. For many in the buyer universe for these listings, this matters quite a bit)

P09/SLS: Agreed - #4C is still expensive, even at a 2004 price. Not sure how much to adjust the #4A comp for the needed renovation. Corcoran would probably say $250-500/sq.ft., which makes a big difference in the comparison to #4C.

Speaking of "Much cheaper, but still not cheap", #6B at Millan House (115 East 67th/116 East 68th) just dropped $300K, to $2.45MM.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391058-coop-116-east-68th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

The comps make that cut look like a non-event, until you look closely at the apartments. As noted one page up in this thread, the basic "B" and "C" floorplans mirror each other, except "B" has an extra maid's room as a seventh chamber, while certain "C" units have a separate, additional maid's room on the ground floor. The "A" line is a much smaller (though still generous) five.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT .... #6B .......................... |↓ $2,450,000 3 beds 4 baths
CURRENT .... #2B .......................... |↓ $1,750,000 2 beds
07/15/2008 #3C $2,495,000 . +0.0 |↓ $2,495,000 Sold 2 beds 3 baths (separate maid's not shown)
04/03/2008 #7C $2,800,000 . +1.8 | . $2,750,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths + separate maid's
04/02/2008 #2A $2,100,000 +10.8% | . $1,895,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,700 ft²

#6B at $2.45MM is noteworthy because it has an extra bedroom and bath off the living room, taken from an adjacent apartment. The recently-hiked maintenance of over $5K per month, however, is a serious problem. The quick, deep cut suggests that the sellers are serious, so this one is worth watching, despite its flaws.

At 108 E 82, 4C looks like about 1450sf. Maintenance then implies that 4A is 1800, so it sold for 1,150 psf. Add, 350 psf renovation (just picking a number) and subtract the same amount for ~25% market movement (might actually be charitable in this segment) and you're back at 1,150 psf, or about $1.675mm for 4C. Something more in that range is a starting point; $2mm doesn't do it.

Also, at 108 E 82nd, isn't it important to note that the A and B lines face the street, while the C and D lines face the "garden"? If we're talking about the 4th floor, that can mean a lot in terms of views, light, etc.

108 E 82nd, 6B is the competition. And even though it is an estate, it definitely wins. It's two floors higher, slightly larger, faces the front, and its asking price is 1.78M, 195k less than 4C.

And I wouldn't worry about the new owner of 4A. He may have overpaid, but he won't need to do a quick re-sale. His job is secure.

xellam: #4A is that rare case where I look at what a $2MM buyer does for a living and think, "He deserves something even nicer."

What does he do for a living?

carnegie: He cures cancer.

Another line to discuss at 22 East 88th / 21 East 87th, where happyrenter addressed the F line a couple of pages up on this thread.

7D was listed in mid-March asking $3,395,000 but was not identified by apartment number until today. This ask is 3.5% below the same unit previous sale in June 2004. Comps below:

03/07/07 #12D $3,600,000
04/26/05 #4D $3,335,000
10/14/04 #6D $3,370,000
06/21/04 #7D $3,518,000

Overall a strange price series, with no appreciation from 2004 to 2005 and very little through the 12D trade right around the market peak. 12D (top floor) may be a different layout; the listing describes an 8 into 7, while 7D is a 7. And of course relative condition is unknown. Still, an opening ask on top of multiple 2004-05 comps, suggests a definitive move back in pricing time.

I have seen every unit for sale in this building. I just can't wait to see where 8E closes at. I have a feeling it is going to really annoy the F line folks. 8F is a just a great looking apt. kids bedrooms are a bit small, but the reno is really nice. Additionally, they have a whole house Crestron system, this means nothing to most, but they spent a bunch of loot on this and offers nice features and I think the architecture exists to expand it. 6F is the redheaded step child, sorry. 12F is the best bones wise with the greater light and the extra room, but it needs major updating.

Do you know why 8F is trying to sell? Didn't they buy it fairly recently?

I think he took a job with Obama. Public knowledge

1349 Lexington Avenue PH1 is now 19% below its prior sale from 2004. Corcoran has "refreshed" this listing twice, to no avail.
09/01/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,725,000.
05/29/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,795,000.
07/07/2008 Listing is no longer available.
07/23/2008 Re-listed by Corcoran.
08/14/2008 Delisted temporarily.
09/14/2008 Re-listed by Corcoran.
09/19/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,695,000.
12/02/2008 Listing is no longer available.
01/29/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
05/01/2009 Price decreased by 18% to $1,395,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/266176-coop-1349-lexington-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york
The original price last spring was high, but defensible. Since the unit is unique, the prior sale may have been the best benchmark available. But unlike 2004, when multiple bids pushed the price well above asking, buyers in Carnegie Hill have a wealth of great options.

5A and 9A both closed for about $2.3 in the fall of 2005. 2A is obviously a lower floor, but is also now a significantly lower price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/384062-coop-135-east-83rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

02/12/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,950,000.
03/10/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,800,000.
05/11/2009 Price decreased by 11% to $1,600,000.

167 East 67th Street #3AB: $800/SF (based on Elliman's measurement), freshly renovated in Lenox Hill, with reasonable maintenance.
12/05/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,175,000.
12/10/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,999,000.
01/06/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,899,000.
02/06/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,799,000.
05/06/2009 Sale closed for $1,600,000

The comps here are less dire than the chops and the PSF number. The seller bought the two units separately in 2007 for $1.4MM total. With renovation and transaction costs, the flip is a loss, but not a catastrophe. There still seems to be some incremental value in a 3BR/3BA. BTW, I think the size is closer to 1800 than 2000, but it's still $900/SF

"is now 19% below its prior sale from 2004"

are prices generally back to 2002/2003 by now?

Admin: I don't think so. The few $1MM+ sales that are clearing seem to be all over the place, from 2002 to 2007 levels.

In the case of that penthouse at 1349 Lex, I think it's less a matter of asking a 2002 price in 2009, and more a case of having paid a 2006 price in 2004.

got you! thanks 81st. the # of $1MM+ sales is not going to go back to normal (what's normal anyway? 2004?) any time soon imho. how do prices behave once activity comes back (if so) is the other unknown.

so far i've got the feeling that shadow sellers do believe that there's going to be a back to normal and that the normal is a bubble year.

22 E 88 12F enters contract. I guess the needed renovations didn't bother them.

patient09, did you see 12F? On the pictures, the kitchen looks newly renovated. Is that not the case?

I did see 12F...The kitchen is renovated, kinda hum ho...the rest needs work, IMO..The extra room that the rest of the F line doesn't have is the deal maker though.

Did they buy the extra room from another line? I was honestly surprised that the apartment sat so long. How is the light? I am not crazy about north-facting apartments.

Well it certainly is the best light of the 3 F lines that are for sale. It does get significantly better light to the west and south than the lower floors, but still obstructed. Don't know the detes, but I would guess they bought the room from the other line awhile ago. I am not surprised about it sitting so long. This area is the epicenter for leveraged purchasers in the wrong industry. I think buyers realize this and are waiting it out. I think in todays market (not yesterdays, not tomorrows) that a sale of this unit for 2.6mm would be a good buy and a sale for 3.1 would be a great sale, in between, no idea. I guess time will tell.

The home to see the biggest price cut in Manhattan today is a six-bedroom, seven-bath townhouse at 112 East 73rd Street, according to Streeteasy.com. The price of the 5,780-square-foot home was lowered by $3.35 million, and it is now listed for $12.65 million. The house is now on the market for 21 percent less than its asking price of $16 million when it first went on the market in November. According to Streeteasy.com, the prewar home was last sold for $2.43 million in 2005.

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/biggest-price-cut-of-the-day--73

is it true that it sold for only $2.4M in 2005 or is it a typo?

The home to see the biggest price cut in Manhattan today is a six-bedroom, seven-bath townhouse at 112 East 73rd Street, according to Streeteasy.com. The price of the 5,780-square-foot home was lowered by $3.35 million, and it is now listed for $12.65 million. The house is now on the market for 21 percent less than its asking price of $16 million when it first went on the market in November. According to Streeteasy.com, the prewar home was last sold for $2.43 million in 2005.

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/biggest-price-cut-of-the-day--73

is it true that it sold for only $2.4M in 2005 or is it a typo?

The unit to see the biggest price cut today is a four-bedroom, six-bath co-op apartment at 180 East 79th Street, between Lexington and Third avenues, according to Streeteasy.com. The price of apartment 2ABC was cut by $750,000, and it is now on the market for $3.2 million. This is the 5,000-square-foot unit's third price cut, and it is now listed for almost 33 percent less than its original asking price of $4.75 million in September

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/biggest-price-cut-of-the-day--71

crazy maintenance!!!

Admin: The 2005 transaction at 112 East 73rd was a family transfer, not an arm's-length sale. Compounding the distortion, StreetEasy's download processing seems to have misinterpreted the ACRIS data.

If SE support sees this, maybe they can look into what happened. Here's the source document:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/ViewImage?Doc_ID=2006010601183001

1349 Lexington Ave.PH1
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/266176-coop-1349-lexington-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york
This one has been on my list for some time. Meets most of my criteria with the exception of space. These are always hard to comp because of the limited available likes to likes in any one building. These PHs' compete with each other for the attention of all would be roof dwellers. I count myself amoungst you.
They need to be comped against others in similar buildings.
177 East 77th Street
http://www.classicmarketing-llc.com/show.php?id=463
This makes for an interesting comparison.
Not exactly likes to likes, we have condo vs. coop plus we have 200sq/ft difference.
The take away is that 1349 Lex has been priced in such a way as to be sold. What I mean by that is if the seller has to give up another 10% to make the sale on Lex the property still comanded a reasonable price (just a hair over $1,250,000, which would be a reasonable deal in this market). Needless to say our friend on 77th street will be at the haidresser for a 'summer cut' before anyone askes her to dance.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/380942-coop-345-east-77th-upper-east-side-new-york

Sold for $500K, down from a $599K ask. Other c-line apartments were selling well into the 600's a few years back.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364607-coop-151-east-83rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

after the umpteenth price chop, looks like it found the right level.

printer that's amazing. 1D sold for $900k, and 3D sold for $1.15m in 2004. Can't compare the apartments, but still.

printer, ar: apartments with outrageously high maintenance are suffering a lot.

151 E 83rd 1D maintenance - 2248
151 E 83rd 5D maintenance - 2238
I guess if 2238 is outrageously high (which it's not) then so is 2248. 5th floor 17% less than the first floor?? Prices have obviously fallen 20+%

$2.18 per sqft is certainly on the high side. Not retarded high, but on the high side.

Park Ave /3bed 2.5 bth priced 5% under its own 2004 comp

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385295-coop-1036-park-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york

10/20/2004
Previous Sale recorded for $2,585,000.
02/18/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,750,000.
03/28/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $2,600,000.
05/13/2009
Price decreased by 6% to $2,450,000.

Two blocks up, this eight-into-seven just dropped below its prior sale price too, though it's a more recent transaction:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/389999-coop-1075-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york
02/26/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $3,600,000.
03/06/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $3,650,000.
05/15/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $3,495,000.

Not sure how much of the renovation was done by the current owners.

I agree the relatively high maintenance was a contributing factor, but I think the drastic mis-marketing made this one overshoot to the downside. Even adjusting for the fact that the market has come down 20% since it was 1st put on the market, if it had been marketed correctly as a place needing significant work I think it would have attracted the correct type of buyer and moved more quickly at a better relative price. Problem is the owner & brokers thought, or at least marketed it as a "perfect restoration", when the bathrooms and kitchen need a lot of work. So they spent over a year attracting people who had no interest in buying it. Just a horrible job by the brokers - if this had been mkted as needing work, and priced accordingly, it would've sold a year ago for $1mm or more.

150 West 87th "B" line: 2BR 2BA ~1200 sq.ft. Shares of New York seems to be in "make-an-offer" mode. As noted elsewhere, maintenance has jumped.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
05/08/2009 #8B .... $955,000 -19.5% | . $1,187,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
09/03/2008 #5B $1,250,000 .. +0.0% | . $1,250,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/150-west-87-street-new_york

Oops - wrong thread. Sorry, East Siders.

Returning to 250 East 87th Street, where I discussed the C line on the previous page of this thread. 3C got to contract within 3 weeks after one small chop to a $565,000 final ask. Even with the low floor and potential condition issues discussed previously, this is still an attention getting comp vs. 7C at $957,500 last June. I bet it closes close to ask.

However, the more interesting developments in the last month are in the G line, with two listings separated by $450,000 in ask.

05/15/09 #6G $950,000
04/22/09 #14G $1,399,000

And the comps
05/15/08 #9G $1,450,000
07/30/07 #30G $1,475,000
06/06/07 #22G $1,410,000
11/02/06 #19G $1,225,000
07/27/05 #5G $949,999
06/02/05 #22G $1,100,000

Clearly there is a lot going on here with high and low floors, unknown condition of previous sales, etc., but it's hard to conclude that the 6G listing is anything less than real price movement and that the 14G ask is anything less than psychotic (esp. given the decor - the shag carpet and pastel paint and kitchen color scheme aren't going to show well). I would almost wonder if 6G was a list-low-to-start-a-bidding-war strategy except that this strategy may not be viable in today's market and I don't think the listing agent, Noah from Unbandigs, plays games like that. Speaking of which, Noah features this listing on his web site today.
http://www.urbandigs.com/2009/05/oh_sunday_250_east_87th_street.html

Re: square footage, I actually thought that the 14G broker was remarkably restrained in claiming 1400sf, as my calculator was telling me 1,300-1,350, making 1,400 only a 5%-ish exaggeration. However, Noah claims a very precise 1,306sf, which has to be a new standard of broker candor anywhere in Manhattan RE.

But, but....unfotunately it doesn't add up to anywhere near 1,306. Was rather disappointed in that.

CORRECTION: CORRECTION....it is close...calculator, fat finger error...apologies Noah, I suck!

Correction to comps list for 250 East 87th, G line: 2005 sale of #5G was for $999,999, not $949,999. (Note to self: keep neater notes)

Plus two more in the price series:

05/11/05 #8G $1,100,000
09/04/03 #17G $875,000

This paints a clearer picture. Three mid-2005 sales at $1mm - $1.1mm, with escalation from there to a 2007/early 2008 peak around $1.45mm. Ignoring the unknown factor of condition, the $950,000 ask on 6G is midway between 2005 and 2003 pricing. There were no trades in the line in 2004.

Revisiting the "E" line at 170 East 77th (Diamond House). Four weeks ago, we touched on the plight of #10E, an early buyer in the conversion who now faces brutal competition from the sponsor when attempting to resell. Today, #10E cut from $1.25MM to $995K, 18% below their 2007 basis. Considering the prices on #7E and #6E, that cut probably isn't enough.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT .... #10E ........................ |↓ .. $995,000 1 beds 1 bath 895 ft²
CURRENT ...... #7E ......................... |↓ .. $799,000 1 beds 1 bath 895 ft²
CURRENT ...... #6E ......................... |↓ .. $799,000 1 beds 1 bath 895 ft²
11/15/2007 . #8E $1,200,000 +0.0% |↑ $1,200,000 1 bed 1 bath 895 ft²
10/25/2007 . #4E $1,095,000 +0.0% |↑ $1,095,00 1 bed 1 bath 895 ft²
10/04/2007 #10E $1,230,817 ....... |

333 East 79th / 340 East 80th "X" line: 5.5-room that converts nicely to 3BR, though you're left with a bit of a bowling alley as an entertaining space. Real square footage is around 1150. The Elliman broker on #8X, who somehow measures it at 1400, has resorted to advertising the owners' pain:
"'Featured on NY 1', this apartment is now being offered below what the current owners paid in 2005, and they renovated it. Best value on the UES."
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ...... #8X ......................... |↓ .. $999,000 3 beds 1,400 ft²
CONTRACT .. #12X ........................ |↓ .. $889,000 3 beds 1,200 ft²
04/07/2005 #8X $1,100,000 +0.0% | $1,100,000
07/27/2004 #10X .. $940,000 -5.5% |↓ .. $995,000 2 beds 2 baths
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/362004-coop-333-east-79th-street-yorkville-new-york

Lower floor units have sold more recently, but they aren't comps. #12X is a sponsor unit. Needs work, but unless it went to contract above the asking price, #8X still doesn't look like an extraordinary value.

823 Park Avenue cut its asking by $2.25M last Thursday, making it 40% lower than the original pre-Lehman asking (another case of perennially behind the curve pricing).

this was just a day after a similar home 2 blocks away cut its asking by $3.35M. now it's only 20% below original asking but it was listed after-Lehman, which means it might have been priced less surrealistically than 823 Park Avenue.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391661-condo-823-park-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364338-townhouse-112-east-73rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

so the previous $16M-$25M asking are the new $10M-$15M. 2 blocks away the guy that bought at $9M a year ago is stuck big time and will not be able to compete unless he takes a big hit.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/381183-coop-850-park-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york

22 East 88th #8E: A much-watched estate sale closes at a 2003 price, to the sound of gnashing teeth from across the hall:
StreetEasy History
01/14/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,850,000.
02/05/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $2,495,000.
03/10/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/14/2009 Sale recorded for $2,100,000.
Note: As discussed elsewhere, the most recent estate sale in the line, #12E, is not a comp; it's a six rather than a seven. The last true estate comp was #11E at $2.451MM in 2004.

17 East 97th Street #6C: Victorian-style estate seven with low maintenance and a view of the crosstown bus closes at a 2003 price.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/226892-coop-17-east-97th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
04/25/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,895,000.
05/13/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $1,850,000.
06/04/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,775,000.
06/19/2008 Price decreased by 1% to $1,750,000.
06/25/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,700,000.
07/29/2008 Price decreased by 1% to $1,675,000.
09/03/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,625,000.
09/29/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,525,000.
10/06/2008 Listing is no longer available.
10/22/2008 Price decreased by 15% to $1,300,000.
11/04/2008 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
02/17/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/13/2009 Sale recorded for $1,100,000.
Previous estate sale in the line was #5C for $1.295MM in late 2004

"823 Park Avenue cut its asking by $2.25M last Thursday, making it 40% lower than the original pre-Lehman asking (another case of perennially behind the curve pricing)."

for those that like a good gossip, the unsuccessful flipper is Ramesh Singh, who left his position as global head of mortgage-backed securities at UBS, cut the price of his 823 Park Avenue home to $14.5 million last week, $10 million lower than the unit's August list price and $5.5 million lower than what he paid for the unit in June 2008.

I loooove those stories of flippers caught at their own game, keep them coming...

"the unsuccessful flipper is Ramesh Singh"

Is this the same guy who sold his apt. at 860 park for far less than his asking price?

Ramesh Singh is a higher profile version of the NYT journalist with a credit crisis of his own. this time around there might not be a book about it "me the wanna be flipper head of MBS at UBS... should have known better".

amazing how WRONG i was about RE people (including mtg originators, realtors, ...). i assumed that they weren't buying the BS they were preaching on others, that they knew better. but they are among the victims. it makes it less cruel in a way.

yep, same guy.

I dobn't think Singh was a flipper. I think that he lost probably 90% of his net worth so now he has to sell. He probably never cashed in his stock.

UBS stock went down to $20 when he first listed it in august 2008, when he signed the contract it was between $30-$35. it's a beating but not a 90% drop.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/374559-coop-32-east-64th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

biggest price chopper on Friday, down half a million to $2.5. another 1Br on teh 5th floor closed for $1.8M half a year ago. have no idea whether it was in estate condition, hence the $700k more on the asking for a much lower floor (2nd versus 5th).

Maintenance: $3,224, shockingly high (imho) for a sq footage that i estimate in between 1,3k and 1,4k.

This one flew off the market. 935 Park, 14A, 11 days on the market, listed for and price when went into contract was $3.85. 9A closed for $3.3 in 06/04. will be interesting to see what this closes for. did they meet some particular buyer's particular needs, or did they anticipate a bit of a chop and take an offer quickly?

even at 3mm seems like a big number on a price per sqft. However, there is something very special for certain buyers for Park ave address between 80th-83rd st. Gets you cross town via the bus very easily on 79 or 85 easy access to private schools on both sides of Park. I know this trade real well. It makes great sense for many families. Somebody saw what they liked and grabbed it. Good for them, and even better for the seller.

This one went in 31 days. 1185 Park Avenue #3C, Classic 8, listed for $4.75mm...

P09, has ppsf been that big of an issue on Park? I thought it was scarcity. It seems as though there are finally more coming on for under $5mm below Carnegie Hill. I could see some pent up demand there, but still this may well have gone for not much more than a 2004 price. We shall see. Someone add this to their ACRIS watch list, I avoid that like the plague, gives me headaches.

carnegie, is the 1185 one the apartment you mentioned recently on other threads, or an additional one? nothing negative implied, just curious.

The same. It really surprised me. Would have never bought it at that level but maybe the building has special tenants? No clue.

who knows what motivates any given buyer? some people fall in love and have the cash and the security. others, like me, count every penny even when they could afford more (not inherently cheap, just found myself stretched due to uncontrollable circumstances in the past, scarred for life). most people fall somewhere in between. others, as some have noted, will fret themselves into avoiding opportunities. although from all the research i have read we as a collective group tend to be more risk accepting than risk averse. it will be interesting to see if that's still true a couple of years from now.

I wonder that too. I have always been very responsible with cash but I can tell from my UES environment that people are loosing up again. Surprised how quickly they turned...

AR,
935 Park PH, sold or still on the market?

wow, i didn't catch that one. closed, 12/30/08, for $3.625. This must have been discussed here before, no, and i missed it? but just because i put up the other 935 Park sale it is fun to look at the PH pricing history. thanks for the tip, Falco.

01/13/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $4,500,000.
06/01/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $4,400,000.
04/11/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $5,995,000.
04/22/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $5,995,000.
05/21/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $5,500,000.
08/04/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $4,995,000.
09/18/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $4,495,000.
10/08/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $4,495,000.
10/08/2008 Sotheby's Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $4,495,000.
12/30/2008 Sale recorded for $3,625,000.
02/12/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing sold.

carnegie, a good round of layoffs or a downswing in the market and it could turn again. and there are always people who really want to buy.

I didn't mean "good" in the sense it would be good, I meant to the extent that it might be significant. one must be so careful these days.

300 East 77th (Seville) #5D closed 18.7% below ask, 27.3% off 2006 peak comp.
--------Recorded Sales---------------|--------Previous Listings----------
05/28/2009 #5D $2,400,000 -18.7% | . $2,950,000 3 beds 3.5 baths 2,544 ft²
07/17/2006 #6D $3,300,000 . -5.6% |↓ $3,495,000 Sold 3 beds 3.5 baths 2,544 ft²
05/10/2005 #4D $1,750,000 ......... |
08/05/2004 #5D $1,800,000 ......... |

Hard to tell whether the 2004 and 2005 transactions were arm's length.

114 East 84th Street, Apt. 8D: This small classic six in decent condition traded at $1,310,000. Original list was $1,495M before price was lowered to $1,350M.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/367428-coop-114-east-84th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

Given the dearth of classic six transactions, this trade seems significant. Pricing falls between 2004 to 2006, depending on which past D line sales you compare it to.

114 East 90th Street, Apt. 7A just lowered its price to $1,350,000. This is a small-to-medium-sized classic six in fair condition. Current owners purchased for $1,430,000 in October 2005.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/346092-coop-114-east-90th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

Interesting goings-on at prime 880 Fifth Avenue. Apparently an owner has ben trying to scoop a bunch of units to create a massive home. He bought unit 8K in Sept-05 for $1.6M, unit 8H in Aug-08 for $1.75M (bidding up from $1.65M), and unit 8/9J in Aug-08 for $1.401M (bidding up from $1.275M).

Today, all three units were listed for sale: 8K at $1.75M (9% premium to purchase price), 8H at $1.5M (14% discount to purchase price), and 8/9J at $1.25M (11% discount to purchase price); all in a 5% loss on his buy-in value not including closing costs.

I'm curious to see how this develops.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/880-5-avenue-manhattan

angler, just curious: What triggered you checking for the owner? This is an intersting observation but I can't imagine you check the owner for all new listings?

hey hey angler7, carnegie asked you a question...

Review of recent resales at 181 East 90th (The Metropolitan). 2004 vintage high rise condo; mostly family-size layouts; some trades at very fancy prices a couple of years ago; recently, not so much.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/181-east-90-street-new_york

#21C, 2,319sf 3br (conv 4), 3ba.: original buyer got out at 2004 basis
05/01/09 $2,800,000 (listed at $3.78mm 12/08; 4 chops; contract 3/12; last ask $2.995mm)
03/09/04 $2,782,550
The 2004 sale included a storage unit that does not show up in ACRIS in the 2009 sale (or as a separate sale in the meantime)

20C went to contract this week, last ask $3,500,000. It will be interesting to see how much this ended up pricing to the known 21C comp at 20% below 20C's ask. Don't see why anyone would pay more.

Peak comp in this line appears to be 26C, $3,750,000 on 6/19/07. The buyer was the original owner and 2007 peak seller of 24B (see below). Not sure if 29C is the same layout, but it went for $3,500,000 on 12/21/06 (which, oddly, is below original price recorded of $4,000,000 on 10/7/04)

#26B, 1,658sf 2br, 2.5ba: original buyer down 5% from 2004
03/31/09 $1,803,560 (listed at $2.7mm 6/08; 3 chops; contract 2/27; last ask $1.995mm)
08/02/04 $1,899,500
Both sales included a storgage unit

Peak comps in this line appear to be 23B for $2,375,000 on 6/26/08 (with a mortgage that has little equity left at the 26B price) and 24B for $2,475,000 on 8/22/07.

#21A, 1,948sf 3br, 3ba: original owner up 31% from 2004 purchase. Well done
01/06/09 $3,200,000 (listed at $3.45mm 11/08; in contract in a week with no price chops)
05/27/04 $2,443,800

24A is shown as in contract, but it has been since early February, so one begins to wonder if that sale is happening.

Peak comp in this line appears to be 19A, $3,375,000 on 8/9/07.

General comment on the building is that taxes seem to be stepping up, presumably from roll-off of abatement. In a 5 year old building, this process will probably go on for a few years yet.

carnegie - There are certain buildings I have in my saved searches that are meant to give me a sense of sub-markets (Lenox Hill - west of Park Ave., Gramercy - narrow band around Irving Place, etc.). It is highly unusual to have three units come on line on the same day in any Central Park bordered Fifth Avenue building. When those three units are on the same floor . . .

14D sold for $580k in '04. convertible 2. sounds like a high-end reno for this sort of apt. maint. is definitely on the high side, but this would be great for someone who thinks a kid may be on the way in the next 5 years or so.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376326-coop-301-east-87th-st-yorkville-new-york

01/21/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $769,000.
02/23/2009 Price decreased by 19% to $625,000.
03/19/2009 Listing entered contract.
04/28/2009 Listing sold.
04/28/2009 Sale recorded for $595,000.

201 East 80th Street (Richmond) #9D: Jr. 3BR resold 19% below Q1 '06 basis.
StreetEasy History
03/01/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,600,000.
01/29/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,450,000.
02/24/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/26/2009 Sale recorded for $1,300,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/377924-condo-201-east-80th-street-yorkville-new-york

BTW, for W67 and other bubble math fans, the peak sale in the line was:
08/13/2007 #11D $1,723,000 +1.6% | $1,695,000 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,500 ft²
That one didn't end well either.
12/11/2008 #11D $1,450,000 -9.1% |↓ $1,595,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,498 ft²

245 East 87th St

The B line could go here (comps) or on the neighbor undercutting my price thread, with two competitors coming on the market (one asking higher, one lower) since #17B was listed in December. Asking 3% to 17% below peak comp, with one already asking below the 2005 lower floor comp.

Current #14B $995,000
Current #17B $939,000
Current #7B $845,000
11/14/07 #11B $1,025,000
11/07/05 #3B $876,000

I'll give the 17B broker a shout out for square footage honesty, with this listing claiming 1,100 sf compared to 1,200 sf for the others. However, I'll give him a bigger shout AT (vs. OUT) for the midleading and disingenuous claim - in all caps, no less - in the listing write-up that kids in the building are PS 6 eligible. The building is in the ex-PS 151 twilight zone and kids are eligible to APPLY to PS 6 and other neighboring zones. Readers of the public school threads on SE, or the Times coverage of the overcrowding issue, will know how that's working out for out-of-zone kids these days.

The last closed sale in the building was #17D for $510,000 on 3/20/09. This is +12% from the same unit last sale on 5/20/05. The listing for the 2009 sale highlights the need for "major TLC", so the +12% is price movement, not a renovation between last sale and now.

40 East 78th Street #5B

Nice Haircut

07/07/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,250,000.
09/17/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $1,995,000.
01/22/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $1,795,000.
02/27/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,695,000.
03/11/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,595,000.
04/03/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/30/2009 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,595,000.
06/04/2009 Listing sold.

960 Park Avenue #11B: Closed 20% below 2006 basis after an October contract fell through.
StreetEasy History
06/02/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $2,625,000.
08/19/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Warburg at $3,495,000.
10/08/2008 Listing entered contract.
01/08/2009 Re-listed by Warburg.
01/08/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $3,050,000.
02/03/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $2,895,000.
03/06/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/05/2009 Sale closed for $2,100,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/343215-coop-960-park-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york

812 Park Avenue #9/10D closed for $6.95MM.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/378841-coop-812-park-ave-upper-east-side-new-york

At first glance, the price looks stronger than the recent, shocking sale of #5/6C for $5MM. Closer inspection reveals that the per-share price for #9/10D is significantly lower than the earlier transaction. The result looks better because #9/10D was priced realistically from the start - to compete with #5/6C, which had already languished for over a year.

bought for $3.6M in 2005 but asking $11.5M ???? dont' get it, it had a $7M reno?
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/42866-house-158-east-61st-street-lenox-hill-new-york
www.158EAST61ST.COM

The unit to see the biggest price cut today is a six-story townhouse at 158 East 61st Street, according to Streeteasy.com. The price of the 6,900-square-foot home was cut by almost $1.5 million, and the mansion is now on the market for $11.5 million. The home was first available in August 2006 for $11.25 million and then had two price increases, the first in March 2007 to $13.95 million, and a second in May 2008 to $15 million. A year later, this past May, the price fell to $13 million. The home is now listed for 12 percent less than its last listing price of $13 million, and is just $250,000 more than its original 2006 listing. Brown Harris Stevens' Wolf Jakubowski and Paula Del Nunzio have the listing. According to city records, the home was last purchased in 2005 for $3.6 million.

www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361947-coop-71-east-77th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

Back to 2005 price

02/15/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,175,000.
11/04/2008 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,450,000.
12/03/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,395,000.
01/12/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,325,000.
02/12/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $1,295,000.
03/19/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,245,000.
06/09/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,175,000.

good one dwell. fun when the numbers match exactly. not yet true for the following:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/362021-condo-455-east-86th-street-yorkville-new-york

11/18/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $960,000.
05/04/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Prudential Elliman at $1,325,000.
07/25/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,365,000.
09/19/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,375,000.
11/04/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,495,000.
01/29/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,425,000.
02/27/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $1,399,000.
03/24/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,350,000.
04/03/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,299,000.
04/16/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,199,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,149,000.
05/26/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,099,000.
06/11/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,050,000.

AR,
Been to 455 east 86. Large 2 floor with a strange 'jail house' feeling to it. Prehaps because it's emty. Can't exactly put my finger on it but, this place is missing something. The 2005 sale might even be generous for this place. Wow, $1,495,000........how crazy this city had become. You know me, bitting at the bit still, there's more air to be released from this bubble.

falco, i tried to run the carnegie hill closed sale comps. not much doing there. if you must insist on going forward, make sure you try for no more than a 2006ish price, and in that neighborhood you'll have to broaden your comp search. Are you set on a specific school?

Properties in the $1.5 range are doing fairly poorly. No harm in waiting.

ar, how do you run that analysis?

AR,
Do you mean school for my kid? The building is zoned for PS 6 but, we will choose a private school very close to our final purchase. I would guess all girls. As you know, I have also been following the market carefully. I've done some off line research and have found this to be a very well maintained building with good financials and little turn over...I love the expression...they leave feet first. A search does show that several sales have been internal. I'm looking to catch a prize below market value. Determining market value is the big question. $1.55MM in a hay-day market is an easy call but, a good 2br. with a terrace/view/location in todays market is much tuffer to value in the absence of reasonable comps. I also have not been able to decern any external pressure on the seller to rush. I like the place but, in the event of the mexican standoff I need to figure my break point. My gut tells me that the break point is 1.35MM. In the absence of comps it might be wishful thinking. Any thoughts?