If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Upper East Side Edition

350 East 77th Street #5HJ: Same-unit resale, down 9.7% from early-2006 basis. Most awork appears to have been done by prior owners.
01/04/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $949,000.
02/23/2006 Listing entered contract.
05/25/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $919,000.
09/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,105,000.
10/30/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $1,000,000.
02/11/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $939,000.
02/24/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $895,000.
05/14/2009 Listing entered contract.
08/26/2009 Sale recorded for $830,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/351199-coop-350-east-77th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

$830,000 is what I would call rightious bucks for this tiny unassuming nothing with nothing two bedroom.
When you see a sale like the one at 350 East 77th it's hard to not instinctivly feel the the market is up for another down draft.

1125 Park Ave 14C. Prewar 9

03/10/08 closed at $6.995mm
08/03/09 closed at $5.2mm

Down over 25% in less than 18 months

The sellers held it for only a few months before putting it on the market. They live in 14A, so maybe intended to combine.

NWT: The broker's story was that they decided it was too small for their family. That doesn't really jibe with the combination scenario. Another possible explanation is that they got so rich off the AIG bailout that they set their sights higher than 1125 Park, but that's a pure guess.

from the high end, to the low.

500sf one bedroom in elevator building. price appears to be below fall 2004 levels. 4F sold for $315k in 10/04. starting to see a number of smaller units closing in the $500-600 psf range.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/378823-coop-321-east-89th-street-yorkville-new-york
02/03/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $349,950.
02/27/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $329,999.
04/03/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $299,000.
04/28/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $289,999.
06/09/2009 Listing entered contract.
07/28/2009 Listing sold.
07/28/2009 Sale recorded for $275,000.
08/18/2009 Listing sold.

Ah OK. I was guessing that the apts relative to one another were

AB
C

which'd make A and C combinable but too big, while the move scenario would make it

BA
C

141 East 72nd, full floor listing with Sharon Baum & bro went into contract without a reduction in ask. Did anyone see this? It was interesting to me, but I would have thought (given the 50% dp and liquidity reqs) that it would have gone down to 3.5m.

As I have learned lately these buildings like 141 East 72nd are in a world of their own. Full floors and high net worth expectations are just the begining. When you consider how few apartments their are like this in buildings like this at this type of location the desire to own (if you got the bucks) is high. It's not just an apartment it's a club, of sorts. This is really true of all coops, it's just where they draw the line. It's a super mini version of some sort of exclusive high end communism or maybe mormenism (it's all about the GOLD tablets).

But right now we're sorta spoiled with choice as far as these apts go. Minuses - location on Lexington, no drop-dead views, and high liquidity reqs. So what gives?

10023, but isn't that still a significant drop over the last few sales? maybe someone couldn't find what they wanted and decided the gut reno was the way to go.

nyc10023 - totally agree with Falco on this one. There really are not a whole lot of choices for apartments like this - full floor pre-war (though right on 72nd is not perfect)in excellent location, very nice layout (though not as good as some of the PRIME pre-wars), four maids' rooms (become nice family room). High liquidity reqs. totally standard. The fact that it is so difficult to buy into these buildings actually makes them more desirable for people who can join that "club". This is the type of building that looks for the purchaser to have 10 times the purchase price in liquid assets (and turn down people who may only have 5X). Unbelievable, but true. And, prewar is prewar - they don't make any more of it. (okay - they tried at 15 CPW).

There is one pre-war condo on 72nd street - 50 East 72nd - but the apartments are nowhere near as big as these full floors, yet still trade at pretty good prices.

Well if you feel as though you missed your chance on 141 e72, another unit just came on the market. 7floor.

patient09 - even if I wanted to buy there, don't think they'd let me in (net worth, ethnicity?) and, it's estate condition (probably type of building that allows renovations ONLY in the summer, when all the owners are away), and, having been through one renovation (didn't live in it while it was going on) NEVER, NEVER want to have to go through that again.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/399832-coop-1111-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york?email=true

this is a whopper--note that 9C and 8C traded 3.15 and 3.45 in 07

6C6H, with a 1 bdrm folded in, went to contract with a current asking of 1.950

ouch!! 9C and 8C trade at an avg of 3.3...6C6H goes to contract with last ask of 1.950 down 41%...includes an extra 1 bdrm!!

bump

tell me this isn't a finely ferreted tidbit

Something is fishy about this. If 9C/8C had the same footprint as 6C, they are Classic 4s (not even with DR). Hard to fathom that they ever went for over $3mm when you could have Classic 7s for that at that time.

agreed....it seems this ferret may have found a fishy one

but if you look at the florplans for the building, 2C seems to be the same as 6C6D less a small 1 bdrm

That's my point. Maybe starting at 7/8, the floorplan gets bigger? We have that in our building. 2BRs on lower floors, same line 3BRs on higher flooors.

you are likely correct

i noticed that 9C is cited as a 2bdrm 3.5bath which also sounds weird, but is certainly bigger than the jr4 that 2c is as shown in flrplns

can i unbump?

Ubottom: I think you were right the first time. The share counts on those listings are 630 for #9C (which is a large classic six, BTW) and 930 for #6CH. The small difference in footprint doesn't seem to justify such a big disparity in shares, but the price drop is real.

How can a large classic 6 have 3.5 bathrooms?

http://www.stribling.com/propinfo.asp?webid=1023027&type=SALE

I have attached the Stribling link to apartment 8C. As you can see not exactly the same layout as 6CH, and 6CH is in need of a total gut, but as West 81 says, still demonstrates significant movement

But that was my original point. Ubottom was not right. He/She stated apt is same plus extra br. But as you can see 8C is bigger than 6C. Not disputing price movement (because obviously there is) but this has to be combined + I am sure maintenace of combined unit is bigger (given the amoutn of shares).

1400 sf, renovated, 2/1.5 duplex. 6c closed for $900k 07/04, 1c for $1.2mm in 10/06. 1c had patio, this has two smallish terraces.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/394602-coop-170-east-88th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

05/19/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,250,000.
10/13/2006 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $995,000.
03/24/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,100,000.
05/28/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,000,000.
06/24/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/14/2009 Listing sold.
09/14/2009 Sale recorded for $960,000.

this is a pretty 1/1, prewar, renovated. good neighborhood for many.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/370009-coop-150-east-93rd-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
03/21/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $519,000.
12/09/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $599,000.
03/27/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $575,000.
04/25/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $525,000.
06/29/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/09/2009 Listing sold.
09/09/2009 Sale recorded for $500,000.

Wow, ar, how do you keep track of all these listings? I feel you are constantly on here. And you don't even live on the UES, right?

AR, think I should get off my duff and start making some offers?

carnegie, i read quickly and have been following real estate markets forever. daughter goes to school on UES, spent many an hour looking at UES apartments. without the internet i'd be healthier, but short of becoming a broker, which i'm ill-suited for tempermentally, this is an outlet. no i'm not constantly here, but i'm around a lot.

falco, really tough question. you're looking at carnegie hill, right? or a bit lower, prime blocks, and you need outdoor space? was it two or three bedrooms? one child, not in school yet? that still seems expensive to me (the apartment AND the child). i don't do the upper-level comps for the UES as it's handled so capably by others.

it's so impossible to tell what they will be able to do in the short run (one to two years) with their reflation efforts. do i think prime manhattan has further down to go? yes. do i see deals that are attractive on a number of levels? yes. would i be frustrated if i had really wanted to buy for years? yes. would i buy now? no. but that's me, and that's knowing that i've decided i don't care if i rent forever. you're you. what does your gut tell you now?

Falco: in your position (i.e. one young child not in school yet, more children on the horizon?) I would not buy. Too many uncertainties - if you buy, you're locked in with hefty transaction costs to boot. Having said that, I bought (this last time) in the exact same position (2 yo, one on the way) but ph41 notwithstanding, I know that the UWS (66thish to 81st) is where I want to be as long as I'm in NYC.

loox to me like the floorplans at 111 park are quite varied from floor
i thought id have my moment of glory
and ar you are an animal
you should set up not as a broker, but as a "re pricing consultant"

This is not thread related but, I do want to be on the UES or UWS. Flexable about location (ues better 4 me) one kid (10) UES schooled, want 2br. with sept dinning rm. or 3br/w or w/o dr.or both. Outdoor space and light. Want to buy for the long hall. Don't see this as an investment more a liability that I just want. I could think of a lot better things to do with my $ but... No pressure form rental or spouse. See my 10yr old and think...when exactly am I going to do this, when she leaves 4 college? Ready for joys and pains of home ownership. I had to wait at least till now b/c IQ has 3 digets.
Personally I believe that prices will continue to desend for at least 2-4 yrs. slowly and gradually but if I really wait that makes my kid 14...see where I'm going?
AR, you once advised me not to telegraph anything I'm serious about...would love your input...can u shoot me your e-mail address at: visionwins@yahoo.com I might not get back to you until after the grand New Year celebration. Same thing every year...I show up a Times Square at about 20 min. to midnight and every year I'm disapointed...no ball drop, no ticker tape, all alone........again.

didn't go through, falco.

aboutreadyse gmail.com

but did you get to see dick clark?

didn't go through, falco.

aboutreadyse gmail.com

but did you get to see dick clark?

2 Sutton Place South #2C: obviously a mid-2004 price; possibly earlier if the sellers did any of the reno.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/368339-coop-2-sutton-place-south-sutton-place-new-york
07/09/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,150,000.
12/02/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,495,000.
03/03/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $1,295,000.
06/25/2009 Listing entered contract.
08/03/2009 Listing is no longer available.
08/11/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/14/2009 Sale recorded for $1,150,000.

1136 Fifth Avenue "A" line: Huge corner eight with four rooms facing the Park.
08/19/2009 #3A $3,500,000 -22.1% ↓ $4,495,000 Sold 4 beds 3 baths
09/10/2008 #5A $6,350,000 -2.2% $6,495,000 Sold 3 beds 2.5 baths
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/1136-5-avenue-manhattan
The footprints match. Elevation and condition are factors, but 45%? #5A doesn't clear the trees; and #3A, while very dated, doesn't appear to have been a complete wreck.

The last year in the life of NYC real estate has not been kind to the 5A buyers. The Fifth Ave purchase and subsequent sale of their previous coop (itself a bruising experience according to the price history) perfectly straddled the Lehman event.

Sidelinesitter: Nice catch. On the bright side, #5A appears to have been an all-cash purchase in a building with tough financial standards, so the owners probably have a cushion.

115 East 87th Street #6DE: Same unit resale of a Carnegie Hill eight. Closed 35% below owners' 2005 basis, in a bankruptcy liquidation. Agent for the failed listing was one of the owners.
06/23/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $2,695,000.
10/28/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Loho Realty at $2,999,999.
01/22/2009 Delisted.
09/15/2009 Sale recorded for $1,750,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360422-coop-115-east-87th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
Streetesasy only shows a small fraction of the complex history on this one. The owners appear to have listed the property with Stribling for $3.975MM in 2006, then tried again through "LoHo Realty" from early 2008 onward, initially asking $4.25MM.

west81st, that's some sale. if you're going to declare bankruptcy these days, some people would be better off having the home be part of the liquidation process.

now, back to not-so-tiny shoeboxes in yorkville. plymouth house, typical UES cookie-cutter apartments. 6E is an outlier, but this seems to be mid-2004 pricing.

8 active sales listings: $558 per ft² (avg)
57 previous sales listings: $722 per ft² (avg)

10I, closed 09/08 for $290,000. alcove studio, monthly cost of about $2300, before tax deduction.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/346108-coop-235-east-87th-street-yorkville-new-york
09/04/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $439,000.
10/15/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $415,000.
11/30/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $390,000.
01/12/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $350,000.
03/03/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $329,000.
05/12/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/09/2009 Listing is no longer available.

12g, probably estate sale, needs reno, alcove studio, roughly same size. will be lucky to get $259k methinks.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/460627-coop-235-east-87th-street-yorkville-new-york
12/10/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $375,000.
06/08/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $330,000.
09/10/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $259,000.

another $500ish psf new listing, $295k alcove studio, appears to be late 2004 pricing, but needs reno. before reno costs about $2000 per month.

where is julia?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/462140-coop-520-east-72nd-street-lenox-hill-new-york

What'd I tell you kiddums. A re broker who thought commission = life time guarantee, and bought too much housing. Another one bites the dust, soon to be reincarnated as a rental broker for citi-habi.

Where is alpo? No bks in NYC, right? Just the first of many to come, it's only been 12 months since lehman. Happening alot more quickly, I guess $2mm mortgages makes the god of cash flow your only god at the moment.

moving up to the 2/2s. sold very quickly, at 2005 price. don't know if seller did renovations, but Viking makes it seem likely to me. 3H, a lower floor, is currently on the market for $949,000 (and has been for a few months), and the renovations look more expensive to me.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/435275-coop-315-east-65th-street-lenox-hill-new-york
08/01/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $970,000.
07/09/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $1,075,000.
07/18/2009 Listing is no longer available.
09/18/2009 Listing sold.
09/18/2009 Sale recorded for $970,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/418015-coop-315-east-65th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

another large 2/2 unit that flew off the market, this time at below 2005 sales price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/431627-coop-301-east-75th-street-upper-east-side-new-york
06/10/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,035,000.
06/24/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,099,000.
06/25/2009 Listing is no longer available.
09/17/2009 Listing sold.
09/17/2009 Sale recorded for $989,149.

W81: 115 East 87th Street #6DE is a scary tale; seller listed is "Trustee In Ch 7 Bankruptcy". ouch, ouch, ouch. I feel for the prior owners, but their pricing was nutz: They bought at $2.7, which was crazy enough, but then, asked $4.225, then $3.975. Ouch, nutz, pain, scary.

Hey AR! Yeah, perhaps Julia's time is coming

Hey W67! Yeah, more bks to come, esply since 5 yr arms of 2005 buyers will adjust in 2010.

Oh, happy daze.

hell it's dwell. where have you BEEN!!

Hey AR!!! How the heck are ya?? I've been bizzy, MIA from the board. How was France? We should get together for a drink. I'll email you later or verse vice.

Funny, just spoke to a RE brker I used in the past, told him I'd like to resume my search next year. He said "well, now's a good time to buy, prices probably won't go down any more". And methinks to meself "Oh reeeeaaaaaallllly????????????? Have ya seen 115 East 87th Street #6DE? The seller had a rather lengthy name: Mr. Trustee In Ch 7 Bankruptcy."

And so it goes.

Dwell: how are you? I had a very yummy time in France, so much so that I was told to watch my weight gain.

Dwellie!!!!!!!

Yo ar. !!!!!!

This is for all the 1BR lookers/lurkers. This could also easily go in the choppers thread.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/183854-444-east-86th-street-yorkville-new-york

12/14/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
02/19/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by RB Homes at $719,000.
06/25/2008 Listing is no longer available.
05/05/2009 Re-listed by RB Homes.
05/05/2009 Price decreased by 18% to $589,000.
07/07/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $569,000.
08/10/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $549,000.
09/16/2009 Listing is no longer available.
09/23/2009 Re-listed by RB Homes.
09/23/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $519,990.

Additionally, 24C sold 7/2008 for $590k and 29C sold 11/2008 for same $590k.

Even worse for seller, I measure this around 650sf and ata generous $700/sf they would be looking at $455k. Yikes!

Sorry, screwed up the cut/paste. That 33C sold in 2005 for $545k.

300 East 79th Street #14A. Resale of new 3BR/3BA condo, now asking 12.5% below pre-construction basis.
03/12/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Corcoran at $2,850,000.
07/28/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $2,850,000.
02/19/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Modlin Group at $2,995,000.
04/28/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $2,750,000.
09/23/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $2,495,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385620-condo-300-east-79th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

ouch w81...this one will get ugly...a secondary sale in competition with huge remaining dev'per supply

pls revisit this in case i neglect to

108 East 82nd Street #4C: Same-unit resale of prime UES seven-into-six, now asking 6.4% below 2004 basis.
06/24/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,950,000.
06/16/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,795,000.
11/06/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $2,495,000.
12/03/2008 Delisted temporarily.
04/21/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
04/21/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $2,249,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $1,975,000.
09/23/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,825,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/300809-coop-108-east-82nd-street-upper-east-side-new-york
There's no doubt this apartment has some warts, like small bedrooms. But presumably they were the same size five years ago.

apt 5c sold for $1631 in 2006. does the 1950 price in 2004 seem right?

opheus,

5C was 'estate condition,' and from the picture it looks like it needed absolutely everything and then some--it was a dump. So assuming 4C was in good condition in 2004 the 2006 price, while lower, represents upward movement of probably 10% after factoring in renovation costs.

4C is not a great apartment, but it's not bad--small bedrooms, yes, but a very usable maids room makes this a legitimate 4 bedroom prewar apartment, in good condition, at Park and 82nd, with no obviously awful features, for well under $2 million. I think that's movement.

860 Fifth Avenue #8A: Closed 26.1% below original ask.

11/22/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,300,000.
02/06/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/19/2009 Listing is no longer available.
06/12/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
07/07/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $1,995,000.
08/13/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/17/2009 Listing sold.
09/17/2009 Sale recorded for $1,700,000

Note that #3A sold for $2,595,000 on 9/21/05.

new to the market, 16D

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/466323-condo-65-east-96th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
12/02/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,827,758.
09/26/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,250,000.

back on the market, 15D, open house tomorrow.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360667-condo-65-east-96th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

01/11/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,749,000.
10/29/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,300,000.
11/17/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $2,100,000.
01/23/2009 Listing entered contract.
03/03/2009 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
03/06/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,995,000.
03/17/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,895,000.
04/25/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,795,000.
05/27/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,695,000.
07/31/2009 Listing entered contract.

16D is clearly a better apartment....
Sitar music and insence permeate 16D as smoke wafting from a hooker fills the room with three dimensional imagery that seem to connect all space and time. What ever you were wearing when you entered this apartment is magically transformed to tye-die. How I found this place you ask? Tripping through the lilly fields I came across an empty space it trembled and exploded...left a bus spot in it's place. The bus came by and I got on not knowing where it's bound...It was aboutready at the wheel heading for never never land...

Now down on 15D, their brewing coffee and takeing there reality with not an ounce of sugar. 15D smells like an apartment that will sell. 16D...............looks like a party I would like to get invited to.

We love it when you get inspired....

But why is there smoke coming from the hooker? Rug burn?

It's "hookah" as in middle eastern sort of pipe - not "hooker"

That's good. Having a burning hooker in your open house would probably not help with the sale, unless the buyers like that kind of thing (perhaps I'm just showing my closed-mindedness)

Actually excuse my stupidity, the smoking hooker is the broker. Sorry for the confusion

Okay - let's try to explain this one.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/333266-condo-151-east-85th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

So, back in May 2007 this guy in Korea had $700K to invest in U.S. real estate and do him some flipping. Having seen only Jeffersons reruns, nobody told him that a triple-digit address on E 85th isn't exactly prime, so he went into contract for this place. With an $1.8M mortgage. Now, having closed on it, the big-bucks flip ain't going to happen, and he's flushing money every month.

Or else it's peanuts to him, and he just needs a place to stay when in town.

NWT - it was listed "in contract" at $2.035MM in 8i/2008, and sold for over $2.5MM in 8/09 - isn't that what you would call successful very flipping (of the contract)?

sorry - very successful flipping of a contract?

When I wrote it I was thinking hookah but now that you mention it...burning hooker does make more sence.

pg41, I don't know what the sponsor reported to SE, but the Real Property Transfer Report shows a contract date of 5/15/2007 and a sale date of 8/28/2009. The parties are the sponsor and the current owner. If anybody paid $2.035M for anything, it wasn't recorded.

nWT - if someone flipped the contract prior to closing, I don't think that would not have been on a real property transfer report.

sorry - I don't think that WOULD have been on a property transfer report

bump

Exactly, so no way to know.

Going by the Harrison thread, that "listed at $2.035M, already in contract" feed to SE in 8/2008, after it'd been in contract for more than a year, does not mean that the $2.035M was the contracted-upon price. Maybe the $2.035M would've been the asking price had the $2.5M contract fallen through.

860 Fifth Avenue "A" line, floors 3-11: Park-facing 4.5 with balcony.
--------- Recorded Sales --------- | --------- Previous Listings ---------
09/17/2009 # 8A $1,700,000 -14.8% |↓ $1,995,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
09/21/2005 # 3A $2,595,000 + 0.0% | . $2,595,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
08/16/2005 #10A $2,350,000 + 0.0% |↓ $2,350,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/860-5-avenue-manhattan
#3A was extensively renovated, but the movement is still dramatic.

West81st - Fyi, I noted that sale above. Of course, not with your level of detail.

new poster - enjoying the insights on this thread. new to UES but keen to explore it. can anyone send me a few listings of well-priced 3BRs in UES (preferably 70s and 80s west of 2nd ave)? Thanks!!

I'm keen to explore also. Pls post your ovulation cycle ; ) and work email. Our 'crying game' west81 will send you a weekly update of all you desire. : )

funny

Angler7: Sorry about that - with all the chatter about hookahs, I didn't scan far enough up the page.

Newyorkgirl: A "well-priced 3BR" in prime UES could be anywhere from $1.3MM to $5MM.

Which? Burning hookers, straight hookahs, smoking hookers, or smoking hookahs? No matter those words are totally interchangeable. Sad Safire is dead, long live the king's english!

21 East 90th "B" line: large, corner classic six; all rooms face out. #9B closed last week, down 18% from the 2008 comp one floor below. #9B was probably in better condition overall. Two sales are pending: #11B is is very good condition and figures to sell around the same level as #9B. #6B needs a lot of work.
--------- Recorded Sales --------- | --------- Previous Listings ---------
*CONTRACT* #11B ......................... | $2,350,000 2 beds 2 baths 1,800 ft²
*CONTRACT* # 6B ......................... | $1,770,000 2 beds 2 baths 1,800 ft²
09/25/2009 # 9B $2,250,000 -9.8% | $2,495,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths
06/25/2008 # 8B $2,750,000 +0.0% | $2,750,000 Sold 2 beds 3 baths

#3B, which sold in 2007, appears to be a larger apartment. One oddity: the paperwork on #8B, which closed in June 2008, was finally filed in August 2009. Maybe the agent for one of the subsequent listings noticed the omission and pushed to get that peak comp on the public record.

225 East 22nd, #6D. Closing price in between a higher floor mid-2005 comp and a lower floor mid-2004 comp

09/22/2009 #6D $645,000
06/10/2005 #12D $655,000
06/16/2004 #2D $610,500

784 Park Avenue "A" line, floors 3-14: old-fashioned seven with two masters and two servants. #7A closed last week, down 14-15% vs. the lower floor comps from early 2005. Also down 11% from #9A, despite going to contract in a more favorable month (June vs. April). Footprints match. Edge to #9A on condition, though hot a huge one, and the decor in #7A was an issue. They had the same broker. #4A had probably been upgraded the most at time of sale.
--------- Recorded Sales --------- | --------- Previous Listings ---------
10/01/2009 #7A $2,500,000 -13.0 |↓ $2,875,000 2 beds 2 baths
06/12/2009 #9A $2,800,000 - 6.7% |↓ $3,000,000 2 beds 3 baths
03/19/2005 #6A $2,895,000 + 0.0% |↓ $2,895,000 2 beds 2 baths
02/03/2005 #4A $2,940,000 - 6.7% | . $3,150,000 3 beds 3 baths

Oops - typo in my post from a few days ago. 225 East 22nd = 225 East 73rd.

9A looks like a pretty strong sale for the weak spring market. 7A seems more in line. nice apartment.

1035 Fifth Avenue "A" line: another old-fashioned seven with two masters and two servants.
--------- Recorded Sales --------- | --------- Previous Listings ---------
09/23/2009 # 6A $3,500,000 -15.7% |↓ $4,150,000 2 beds 3 baths
11/08/2007 #10A $4,862,500 - 1.8% |↓ $4,950,000 2 beds 2 baths
05/03/2006 # 3A $2,975,000 - 6.9% |↓ $3,195,000 2 beds 3 baths 2,450 ft²
Footprints match. Elevation is key here, for the view over the Museum to the southwest and the trees to the west/northwest, and also because of traffic (though less so than in the featured "C" line, which overlooks the 85th Street transverse). #3A was an estate wreck. Condition on #6A and #10A appears to have been comparable. The listing for #10A touted a "Highly motivated seller", but the timing of that sale could not have been better. By contrast, #6A was originally listed for $5.75MM in early 2005, pulled in early 2006, then re-listed in September 2008, by which time the window of opportunity had closed. The drop in per-share price from #10A ($11308) to #6A ($8974) is a little over 20%.

these sales seem pretty significant to me west81st. these are fantastic apartments in perfect locations in top buildings.

Happyrenter: I'm noticing a mini-trend with those "old-fashioned" aristocratic sevens that have one room for kids and two rooms for servants. Here's another one that was chopped an additional $280K today. The latest reduction hasn't hit SE the last time I looked.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/412879-coop-1136-fifth-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york
The basic problem is might be that the inventory of legitimate 3BRs has improved to the point where it doesn't make much sense to settle for a 7/2/2 if a family needs a third bedroom. So these apartments wind up selling as high-end sixes rather than low-end sevens.

C-line at 151W86 is another old-style classic 7 with 2 servants. Lower pricing IMO because of the lack of 3rd br.

i sort of like the old-style classic 7--put each of the kids in a maids room, and use the second master as a den/playroom.

120 East 81st 9H- a postwar building, but billed as a classic 7(8?) - listed 9/2 at $3,395,000 - in contract 10/8 .

And that asking /rice is $1,400+/sf in a coop.

i'm seeing real movement in the 1100-1350sf east side apartments. more than would be necessary to get many units to the conforming level. did a search for 2/2s on the UES for under a million and came up with 160, and they include quite a few convertible three bedrooms.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/446237-coop-150-east-61st-street-lenox-hill-new-york
12/10/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $875,000.
04/04/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,075,000.
08/21/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $825,000.

AR - just seems like the large(er) apartments are still getting big $ - the speed from listing to in contract of the East 81st apt. was surprising.

AR, wow. I think this is the first I've seen where the opening ask is below a 2004 sale. If it was a spark-a-price-war strategy it hasn't worked, given that the price war strategy relies on momentum and we're now two months in. More likely a reflection of how soft this segment is, as you note.

i only follow the more expensive market downtown. i think there are certain buildings that are on a number of people's list, i.e., they have ten buildings they'd consider, and when one comes on the market and it's the right fit they just buy. from reading the threads on the uppers i'd conclude that many expensive apartments aren't doing so well.

i went out looking midtown east yesterday. at a much lower price level than i've been looking at downtown. i still think prices are elevated compared to where they'll likely land, but i'm seeing some units that make sense from a rent/buy (assuming rents don't continue to fall, something of which i am far from certain) perspective if one is willing to concede a moderate premium for ownership.

what has struck me during my recent rambles around neighborhoods is how much better the majority of the units present than the last three time periods in which i looked. the vast amount of money spent in home improvement certainly shows. so perhaps i should adjust my psf analysis slightly to reflect general condition.

422 East 72nd

B line
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/394030-condo-422-east-72nd-street-lenox-hill-new-york
08/14/2009 #7B $522,600 -11.4% $590,000
01/23/2008 #11B $740,000 -1.2% $749,000
06/13/2007 #15B $725,000
05/03/2007 #5B $650,000 $650,000
04/12/2007 #26B $760,000
12/27/2006 #10B $710,000 -5.3% $750,000
08/09/2006 #12B $730,000 -4.6% $765,000
01/25/2006 #21B $835,000 -1.8% $850,000
01/10/2006 #25B $760,000
08/17/2004 #25B $515,000
06/11/2004 #3B $450,000
06/11/2004 #20B $525,000

Without considering elevation, this is a 37% decline from peak (21B). If we look at 21B, 25B (2006 sale) and 26B as somewhat different because of the much higher floor, that 11B becomes the low-ish floor peak comp and 7B is down 29%. A big price reset any way you look at it. Even with a difference for elevation (which is evident is a couple of pairings in the comps), the current listing of 23B for 720k looks quite aspirational.

Pricing has resent recently in the E line as well, with three similar floor closings in the $1.1-1.2mm range. Best example of comp vs. peak is the same unit resale of 14E down 22% from mid-2007.

07/31/2009 #14E $1,200,000
06/05/2007 #14E $1,545,000

Pricing has resent = pricing has reset