455 central Park West

I just think the location is pretty bad. While next to the park is great, the blocks around aren't safe at night. In the last few months, we have been less comfortable walking around at night. also, it is far away from shopping the whole foods will arive a few blocks away soon.

target - do you live in the building or close to it? if so, location aside can you talk about the building itself?

no not in the building, which is beautiful. we live in the area in another newer development. we are renting now and looking to buy and are thinking about whether it makes sense to stay up here given the economy and how it will likely impact the area.

gotcha - tku

In this downturn it'll be interesting to see if manhattan valley holds up.

i have a feeling the old saying nothing above 96th will start up again.

if so will be a shame - at least on paper these apartments seem pretty terrific. i had never looked at them until the recent price chop got my attention a bit. My pop lives @ 105th & WEA so the number doesn't worry me, but CPW is a bit remote that far North I suppose and the blocks b/w CPW & Broadway are the ones to be careful of I guess.

Yes, the blocks west of broadway in Morningside Heights, like 105 and WEA, feels like the UWS. Manhattan Valley or the blocks in the 100s between CPW and Broadway, feels like South Harlem (without the vacant lots). The new Columbus Village development with Whole Foods and lots of market rate apartments should help quite a bit.

In tough economic times people want to buy a "sure thing" and manhattan valley at $1-2m isn't so sure.

Having lived for 25 years on the West Side north of 86th St and south of 96th St, I can say it has gotten a lot better. I've met plenty of people who don't want to live above zip 10023. It's a pity because there are some great apartments and streets above 79th Street.

penthouse 3 sold for $4.1 million in 2006 and is now asking $7.3. so before we start asking whether these apartments could be appealing at any price, let's at least have them in a remotely reasonable range. 22A sold for $2.1 in 2004 and now asks 2.7. for $2 million it could be something interesting to think about. The LM apartments seem unbearable to me; perhaps that's why so many are on the market, so those would be uninteresting at any price. but the tower apartments--particularly high floor units--have truly jaw-dropping views, and it's a nice buildin, but the area is certainly less than ideal in terms of shopping, transportation, cultural attractions, etc.

Target, I suspect you live on Manhattan Avenue around W 110. It's a totally different thing, like always in Manhattan. 5 blocks is a lot. West 105 is bad, West 106 is good. ACTUALLY, W 106 (a cross-town street) is great and safe. Market rate; pre-war conversions. Besides new Whole Foods, the Jewish Home is about to break ground for a condo tower. I think that for a new yorker who knows his/her city, it's a great area. In 3 years it will be as unaffordABle as any.
455 CPW: I know someone who lives in the chapel apt. It's absolutely unbelievably uniquely beautiful.

west 107 is bad w104 is S Harlemish as well
projects abound off Manhattan Av a block to the west and south
give target a break.....
W 106 is indeed a good safe street, but target is generally on target re the area
I know the building well and it is very nice indeed.
PMG is correct wrt his/her assessment
On the other hand if the market here keeps improving all these blocks will improve -- parts of S harlem are actually nicer already than these blocks because of a lot of new construction and brownstone remodeling + shops on Fred Douglas (CPW continued)
Trader Joe's is rumored to be coming to 118th and Fred. Douglas, so the area overall may improve further.

The down side is likely as well. As 240,000 formerly nouveau rich Wall Streeters turn into panhandlers, they may set up shop along CPW and mooch favors off passers by, or provide fodder for Law & Order in more creative ways -- by the way has anyone noticed how events in the city often follow a L&O episode rather than the other way around. Pretty spooky. Media inspired crime?

Manhattan avenue from w 104 through w 106 is all LANDMARKED. The brownstones are at around $3MM.

happyr - interested u think LM apartments "unbearable" - i think they look interesting & sort of romantic in an unconventional way - i guess that's what makes a market though.

i went to see it a few months back as i live close by. it's very interesting space - the living room is a spectacular giant round room - very cool, the kitchen is awesome and totally modern, and then the bedroom downstairs has a lot of room and storage. Here's the thing - it's on the ground floor. The beautiful terrace with those gorgeous arches - when you see it, you realize that you are practically on the sidewalk. The neighborhood is crap, it's actually even worse than crap. You're totally surrounded by projects - I would not let my wife walk our dog outside at night - never. I would not want to get out of the 103st subway stop and walk home after 9pm either, so basically figure that if you're coming home from anywhere in the evening, you're cabbing it.

After I left I was asking myself who would buy such a place - if I wanted to pluck down $3mm, I would not want to live somewhere where I did not feel safe. For that kind of money you can get fantastic space somewhere in the city, where you can enjoy it and the neighborhood.

Frankly, I would not pay $1mm for it (someone will, I'm sure, but not me). My best assessment of value is that if you're 25, it would be a great place for your eccentric aunt to die and leave it to you. Otherwise, I don't know why I would spend money on it considering available alternatives.

bender, apparently a lot of people were/are willing to pluck multiple $MM for that place. By the way, the Montefiore kindergarten, right around the corner from the feared by you 103, is one of the best in the city. Projects: to the south — condos; to the north — condos; east — Central Park; west — landmarked Manhattan ave.
Chelsea has more projects (and more violent ones) than around 455 CPW. East Village — even more. Lower East Side — even more. Unless the projects are literally next door, they are not the defining factor in Manhattan.
You sound paranoid. The condo penthouse on W 106 and Manhattan (and it's a 5-storey building) went for over $3M.

bender,

that's ridiculous. if you're that frightened you should move to a gated community.

but you're right that a ground floor apartment with a terrace basically adjacent to the sidewalk is unappealing--no matter what neighborhood. and underground bedrooms? who cares if it has a lot of storage space, it is UNDERGROUND.

osiris, HR - it's not worth an argument - if you would feel safe having your wife or child walk around in this neighborhood after dark, God bless. I wouldn't. I live 20 blocks down from there and walk around CP at night all the time, but again - I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If you feel safe there and like the neighborhood - that apt is a gorgeous space and you will have one of the truly unique residences in all of Manhattan. Go for it!

HR - btw, the way the topography of the land at that spot works out, the bedroom that is in the basement gets daylight - I can't really explain it, you need to see it, but you won't feel like you're in a cellar. Trust me, the space is great and unique, and if you like the neighborhood and feel safe walking around there, go for it!

bender,

i've seen the apartments, obviously. i wouldn't have called them unbearable if i hadn't seen them. i know that the subterranean bedrooms get some natural light at certain times of day. that doesn't change the fact that they are below ground. the round living room is cool, i guess, if you like that sort of thing, but far from practical. it certainly doesn't maximize pleasant useable space to have all those big dark round rooms.

just to be clear, if you actually read my comments you'd see that i do not like the neighborhood. i merely think that for a grown man to be uncomfortable walking around there at 9pm expresses a level of squeemishness i don't consider compatible with city living.

I own an apartment in the tower and have lived in the neighborhood for almost 5 years. I have RARELY felt unsafe in the neighborhood. My female cousin lived with me was a bit more cautious but we discussed it and overall she felt safe. The Montessouri school on the corner of 103rd and CPW has not had any issues with kids being unsafe. There is a really good grocery store near the corner of 110th and CPW and Whole Foods is going in within delivery distance. We LOVE the building, location and the staff is on point and responsive.
I have not really spent time in the landmark part of the building, so I can't speak to those issues.

hardbuzz - thanks very much for that input. We're going to take a look at the LM apartments later today.

LR - take a cab there around 11pm on a Tuesday and walk around for half an hour and then decide for yourself.

your discussions are valid. however, there is one thing to note. the neighborhood is up and coming. However you are paying CPW prime prices for a borderline area.