Julia, most of Manhattan is pretty ghetto

the city is dirty and expensive..what makes me want to try and stay is the energy and excitement of the city..I

julia, the fact that you are having a conversation with quantum AKA rufus AKA DivineComedy AKA JohnAnthony is very reflective of the type of person you are. Maybe you and rufus could start dating and discussing the downfalls of NYC life. Of course, you would have to be open to a long distance relationship as he lives in Illinois not NY.

I suspect a long distance relationship is the ideal scenario for any counterparty.

how do you know if quantum and rufus are one and the same...my life is too busy to start figuring out if a person is posting as someone else. Maybe you should try and do the same.

anyone with 2 minutes on their hands and reading comprehension skills can figure out that Quantum/JA/DC is Rufus.

I think NYC's "excitement" is grossly overrated. There are about 5 other cities in the U.S. that offer what NYC has but are much cleaner, more gentrified, better real estate, and an overall higher quality of life.

I walked on ninth avenue from the west 20's up through the west 40's yesterday and was disgusted at what I saw. Bums urinating and defecating on street corners, boarded up buildings, everything looked so old, grimy, and ghetto. And yet people on this board insist that NYC is so "upscale." Pretty laughable.

Oh my god. Quantum, what a vivd life you lead, you should write a novel. I have lived here for almost 25 years and have never seen anyone defecate publicly, yet you score such visual wealth by merely taking a stroll, and frequently it seems. Leave now, or they may start defecating on you, given your propensity to attract such deviant behaviors.

Rufus, using google earth to "walk" on 9th Avenue doesn't count. In other news, Chicago garbage men are ACTUALLY urinating in the streets on Chicago instead of picking up garbage...

"The report features vivid details that reinforce some of the worst stereotypes of city workers in Chicago.

On July 25, investigators say they witnessed several laborers in one ward drinking beer on city time. A two-man crew allegedly didn't begin working until 6:42 a.m. and stopped for the day at 10:55 a.m., even though the shift wasn't supposed to end until 2:30 p.m.

After spending more than 90 minutes at their homes, the laborers met up again, parked on the street and drank beer out of plastic cups with two laborers assigned to a different garbage truck in the same ward.

"One of the laborers was observed urinating on the street before driving to the ward [Streets and Sanitation] yard to swipe out," according to the report."

and what if quantum and rufus are the same...why does it matter...Help!!! Bring back posters who have something to say and aren't haters.

Oh yes, both quantam and rufus have much to say, and none of it hateful.

The last time I checked, my eyes are still working, and I saw what I saw. Does anyone really believe that ninth avenue is a nice area? I've said on this board before that central park west, fifth, and park, are nice, but the rest of manhattan does NOT live up to the hype.

julia, for as much time as you spend on streeteasy discussion threads, you should know that quantum/rufus/JohnAnthony/DivineComedy are all one in the same. If you hadn't figured it out, you are really as dense as you pretend to be.

i think you and rufus would be make a great couple. You are both Republicans, out of work, consider Fox News to be the source for accurate news and are both extremely dense.

Just calling people who state the obvious haters makes you look even dumber.

The only person I see trying to suggest that 9th ave between 20th and 40th street as being 'upscale' is you. Perhaps you should open this thing called a history book, which may (and I stress may because its highly doubtful) help you understand why parts of NYC look as they do. And if that is difficult for you to understand, the west side used to be the industrial part of town. Do you know what industrial means? (heres a hint...it doesn't mean luxurious high rise glass condo)

and I appreciate that you like to use the 'cityview' feature on google maps to 'walk' around NYC, but it is much different in person.

what you don't seem to understand is...i don't care. I'm not on streeteasy to judge people but to get ideas and thoughts about real estate and nyc in particular from posters. that's all. you just cannot understand that most people are not trying to "out" people. Stop The Hate!!! I spend a lot of time on streeteasy because I learn (I used to) about something I'm interested in. Also, I'm not working right now.

quantum/rufus/JohnAnthony/DivineComedy,
who cares what you think. everyone knows what you post is not true. In the last 10 years, I have never seen anyone publicly defecate on a NYC street. we know you do not live here and have a strange fascination with skyscrapers that a 7 year old boy would.

You are also obsessed with Battery Park City for some strange reason. Do you find it fascinating as an outsider living in Chicago that there could actually be a neighborhood entitled "city" within a larger city? Are you also fascinated with Co-Op City? Starrett City? LeFrak City?

You reinforce people's negative attitude towards people that live in the Midwest and Chicago. If you ever visit NYC and fly into JFK Airport and take a taxi to the city, you should take a look at the Manhattan skyline as you approach the Midtown Tunnel on the LIE. Or the Manhattan skyline on the BQE when you're on the Kosciuszko Bridge. As a Chicagoan, you will be impressed. Chicago looks barren compared to NYC's skyline.

But with Chicago's population trends and job losses leading the nation, it will be barren within the year end.

Thanks for the history lesson, Sizzlack! No one is denying that area used to be industrial. But other cities also had industrial areas, and yet, they cleaned it up, and gentrified. The whole point is that NYC has fallen behind when it comes to urban planning and architecture, and as a result most of Manhattan looks like a third-world country.

I highly recommend you guys to travel more, so you can see how much cleaner and nicer other cities are.

again julia, for someone with no job, thinking about real estate should be the last thing you do.

why don't you spend as much energy and time on monster.com? or go to school to actually advance yourself so that you are more marketable?

no wonder you are without a job.

quantum, why so many aliases? did you really think you as a Midwesterner could outsmart NYers?

Rufus your above statement is proof you don't live here. Take a look at a picture of the West Side in the 1960's. All you will see is a raised West Side Highway and train shed after train shed that dotted the river, projecting out onto piers. The West Side Highway was raised so the trains could go underneath.

Today, ALL of that is gone. ALL of it. There is a beautiful esplanade that runs the entire length of the West Side along the river, full of trees, benches, paving stones etc. It looks nothing, absolutely nothing like it did 40 years ago. If that isn't 'gentrification', you simply do not know the definition of the word.

Take a look at this picture (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3411/3180634344_95de7c0264_o.jpg). I know you won't be able to tell me what building that is, but check out the river in the background. If you want to try and tell me it still looks like that you are delusional (but we already knew that).

I'm sorry sizzlack. Your standards of what constitutes "nice" is just a lot lower than mine. But I'll forgive you since you are obviously not well travelled.

The west side from 14th up to about 60th is mediocre at best. Very few retail, nice condos, completely dead. Contrast this to Chicago's active and upscale waterfront area. NYC doesn't even come close.

LOL! So nice is an abundance of 'condos' to you. Yea you are real well traveled.

Good retail, nice buildings, nice apartments, are a sign of prosperity and gentrification. When I walk on ninth avenue, everything is so grimy and worn down. It looks barely better than detroit or baltimore.

NYC can't compete with Chicago's gold coast, lincoln park, river north, streeterville, etc.

And Julia if you were still unsure if quantum was Rufus, the reference to 'Chicago's active and upscale waterfront' should settle that.

quantum did you join the kkk yet?

The only thing Chicago is better at than NYC is job losses and population trends.

Chicago unemployment rate: 8.3%
NYC unemployment rate: 7.0%

population trends:

NYC +3.3%
Chicago -2.0%

it is pointless to compare the two, i am from chicago, i was seriously bored, that's why i moved here. Anyway, each has it is own merits, but NYC is a much more exciting and dynamic place to be!

manhattan firemen = gangnbang please

chicago firemen = let my house burn

ha ha ha ha hahah ha

Chi-town and NYC cannot be compared - I've lived in NYC for most of my life - went to school in Chicago and was stunned at how clean the city is kept. I lived right on Lakeshore Dr and realized people were not always in a rush - NYC is a fast moving city. All in all, no city can be comapred to NYC - i agree with bmw...

Sure you can compare NYC and Chicago. Architecture, gentrification, real estate, overall attractiveness, are all things that can be judged on their own merits. New Yorkers just say that because they know that NYC falls short on all those measures.

except for the fact it's the guy from Chicago who goes off on unhinged rants about the supposed superiority of Chicago. Looks like it's really Chicagoans who know their city falls short on those measures, or they wouldn't be incessantly trolling NYC RE boards claiming otherwise.

joh176 is right. Chicago is impeccably clean, and NYC can learn a lot from their example.

NYC also has more than 3 times the population in the same land area as Chicago. It's going to be dirtier. Chicago's population is spread out like L.A. Completely different cityscapes, rufus.

You really expect him to understand a concept like that? Waaay to much credit given there.

There are 2 types of people: 1 type that really gets NYC and what makes it unique and better than any other U.S. city, and type 2 who would rather complain about it being "dirty" and will never understand how special NYC is- and therefore should steer clear and not live in NY (this includes you, Julia). Let's just say that New York is one of the most sophisticated, diverse and culturally advanced cities in this country...and EVERY city in the U.S has its homeless- maybe the New Yorker is just THAT much tougher and street smart and can deal with it.

Type 1 people are those who live in shithole apartments in NYC and comfort themselves by saying that they're more "sophisticated" than people in other cities. Type 2 are those who decided that NYC is overpriced and overhyped and choose a better lifestyle.

Oh yea let that insecurity come out! Can you say teeny weeny peeny?

Amen, Zoey251. Those on whom this is lost are invariably transplants to NYC. As in medicine, sometimes a transplant takes, and sometimes it doesn't. NYC's energy, vitality, diversity and siren-pitch of daily life is exhilerating for real NYers--but there are those people who can only see Gotham in terms of what they think is clean or dirty. It's sad that's how they go thru life--missing the point, really--but if they want to live elsewhere that's okay with me. I just can't fathom why they take the time to try to convince others to do the same when no one here really cares if they stay or go. Maybe--just maybe--people like Rufus feel badly about themselves deep down for not being able to "get" NYC and try to rationalize their own failure by plugging other cities.

You're right kylewest. I don't get it. I don't get how NYC can be so dirty and ungentrified. I don't get how NYC's architecture can be so ugly and horrendous. I don't get how NYC has fallen so far behind in urban planning. And I don't get how high NYC taxes are and yet offer so little.

Truly spoken like someone who's never been here before. Rufus err I mean quantum...your next new name on here should be insecure!

ABC's 7 Wonders of America: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/7WondersofAmerica/

Chicago is number 1! Oh no wait...no it isn't.

OK rufus. Glad you finally admit you just don't get it. Does that mean you are finally going to stop posting on streeteasy under all of your aliases and just enjoy Chicago?

Chicago has so many taxes and fees. They even charge you $75.00 for a vehicle sticker if you live in Chicago. More taxes than NYC.

It's like a blind man who has never seen an elephant grabbing its tail and announcing elephants are thin, long, wiry creatures. Living here would help inform what living here is like. Posting from the midwest as a NYC poser is pretty pathetic and easily spotted.

That said, excuse me, but when was NYC EVER "gentrified"? It's very essense is that it has always been diverse. Remember that "Give me your poor..." inscription on the Statute of Liberty? It actually means something to real NYers. Thinly masked prejudice is even uglier than outright bigotry. And I say this as a fairly accomplished, high-tax-paying, NYer living what most stats would say is a life of relative wealth. What is distinctly un-NY is an attitude of entitlement and exclusion. That kind of attitude is just ugly. And I guess that makes rufus and a/k/a's ugly.

in my case, the only reason we are here in nyc is the wide variety of jobs with good potential. so it makes for a good place to start your career. without our jobs we wouldn't be here, that's for sure. it's dirty, expensive, crowded, houses are tiny, i can go on and on ...

The suburbs of Fargo, ND are clean, relatively inexpensive, homes are larger, and the city--indeed the entire state--is not crowded. If those are the criteria, well clearly you should move there if you can find a job. Somehow, I don't think many true NYers would be scrambling to find work there so they can live with all those wonderful benefits you outline. BTW, are you a native NYC'er, admin?

Comparing NYC to any other US city, including Chicago, is like comparing apples and oranges. New York is a few centuries older than Chicago, and has 2-3 times the population, and much higher population density. It is the center of media, fashion and finance. Chicago is the center of meat-packing. It's an entirely different vibe - some prefer NYC, some prefer Chicago, some prefer Colorado, some people would probably prefer Wilmington, Delaware. WHO CARES. The fact that NYC is dirtier, or more crowded, or has areas that are not "pretty" is simply beside the point. People live in NYC for the history, the energy, the unparalleled diversity, not to mention a relatively short drive to mountains, lakes, oceans, beautiful sandy beaches. Sure there are things about NY that we can complain about, some of those things are changing for the better, and some are not. NYC is still NYC - the most exciting, dynamic, crowded, complicated place in America.

"The suburbs of Fargo, ND are clean, relatively inexpensive, homes are larger, and the city--indeed the entire state--is not crowded."

LOL i forgot the weather. horrible on both places. a cheap livable place with good jobs, nice weather, close to a beautiful beach where i can surf and a good university, i guess that's my goal. a long and deep recession will make those come true. hey, if "true new yorkers" are those that love the city so much that know for sure they will die here no matter what, then ... i'm glad i don't belong to that tiny set of nyc adicts.

You generally get what you pay for. Cheap places are generally cheap for a reason... either the place isn't desirable or there is little opportunity to make significant income there. Chicago suffers from a lot of both.

I have lived in a beautiful place with "nice" weather (Fort Lauderdale). The thing about those places is that the people who move there are generally the kind of people who care more about nice weather, than about culture or other variables. Whereas, the kind of people who move to NYC, are probably more interested in career growth, arts, culture, and not so concerned about weather (at that point in their lives, at least). I am not saying either of these is right or wrong, but it's a different mindset that attracts a very different type of person.

totally agree nyc, "You generally get what you pay for" but these are not normal times.

i just think that if this recession is a deep and long as i am afraid is going to be, whether it's super desirable or not, home prices are going to keep on getting cheaper. remember that the best properties are just beginning to be foreclosed on (as delinquencies in non-subprime are kicking in) and that banks are still not auctioning most of them.

i know, i'm trying to time the mkt big time. but i really think it's possible to take advantage of the housing bubble/bust.

Ten years ago I saw public defecation taking place in broad daylight on the sidewalk of 6th Avenue near 57th Street. I was at a safe distance on a public bus, but the bum did it in mid-air on full view. It was absolutely gross, and I will never forget it. However, I still prefer NYC over Chicago. True story.

same thing here. 3 years ago while having lunch with a friend... i was his touristic guide, go figure the embarrassment i went through (i actually first thought it was great that i found a table next to the window). we couldn't finish that lunch of course. disgusting!

PMG: "Ten years ago I saw public defecation taking place in broad daylight on the sidewalk of 6th Avenue near 57th Street."

I guess at least one of Cracker Boy's friends has lived in NY for a decade. His other ones, who apparently hang out on "ninth avenue from the west 20's up through the west 40's ... urinating and defecating on street corners" maybe less time.

Cracker Boy, you should find new friends. I mean "friends", of course.

admin, this type of stuff is pretty common. I recently hosted two friends from Los Angeles and they were utterly disgusted at what they saw in NYC. I was pretty embarrassed as well.

do you make up this much sh*t in your real life? or has this become your 'real' life (that being pretending to reside here)?

Why are people even responding to an idiot that likes to make up negative stories about NYC just to get a rise out of everyone?

LIC - That's exactly what I was thinking..but why am I even bothering to read this......I love nyc and have a small little house to get out of the city on the weekend....but I love coming back to nyc every sunday eve...except in the summer ...when I stay with my kids and walk to the beach that's down the street.! The best of both worlds! yeah

A beach on a salt-water ocean, sound or bay -- sounds delightful! And I'm sure it makes you thankful for the good things in life; some people have only lakes to swim in.

It's salt water......it is lovely...a short distance from where I grew up.....so it has sentimental value as well.

wow ap, i want that kind of weekends...