Inflated Prices?

i dont think things will go lower

Me neither. New York is a global market that attracts buyers from around the world. Although Studios are traditionaly slower to increase compared to 2-3 bedroom apartments.

ditto

You can see from the recorded sales on this site that most of the people aren't long-term buyers, they're buying these places and then turning around and selling them for 20-50% more. These people are pure speculators buying using ARMS and feeding the fire. Why do you think coop prices for studios are still in 380k ranges? Because it's harder to flip them like condos. It's just a matter of time before something happens cause these flippers holding the bag. It really won't take much...maybe 200-300bp raise from the fed.

If you look at some of the record prices with apts #, the recents ones, do a ctrl-paste and search for the next apt #, you see them flipping around with a few months on some of the new condos.

I agree I have been watching condos and in some case have seen a 50% increase in price over the last 1-2 years. This is paticularly true of the West Village.

Hmm... with these so-called "flippers" using ARMs to secure loans to purchase these new condos, it leaves "us" folks who wants to live the American dream of owning our first homes nothing more than a dream. I wish I could just walk into the bank and say "hey! can you give me $2.5 million... and I'll pay you off in a year?"

These flippers wont stop until they get burnt, they contribute nothing to society except pricing out people who want to own a place to live in

i'm interested to know how do these idiots find out where the new developments are! anyone wants to share the inside scoop

prices are coming down and will continue to decline for the foreseeable future - they make no sense when compared to what they could command in rent

I see a completely different picture. I just bought a co-op for $299k...500sq ft., doorman bldg. etc. Last year i could not find anything in that price range now i saw about 20 apts. between 250-300k in pre-war bldgs with doormen, etc. I don't think one bedrooms are dropping in price but it appears that studios are...at least to me.

really? i believe you are referring to CO-OPs, which are priced at that range. Condos are priced ridiculously higher, approximately $1000/sqft

Condos are always priced higher because of the lack of rules the building imposes on the apt. Is it worth double the price - I don't know. I have owned in a co-op without problem. Unless you're planning on flipping the place - I wouldn't spend the money.

I'm seriously not considering co-ops at all because of the strenuous board approval process. I have less than 5 months to purchase, close, and move ---> otherwise, I will have to renew my studio rental contract for $2300/mth. I rather have a place of my own and worry about paying the mortgage, which obviously is way less than $2300/mth for the purchase of a studio <$550K with 10% down.

to comment 14 - each coop is different. Condos are not double the price of coops. There are metrics and in those, they are generally considered to be 25% higher. But the main differences are the fact you can sublease without penalties more easily, sell more easily and not have to go through as difficult an approval process. Additionally for foreign buyers, it can be nearly impossible to get through a co-op approval with mostly foreign assets. It is also fair to mention that many coops have at least 20% downpayment which can go even as high as 50% for the most "prestigious" addresses.

Correction to above post-There are some Co-ops particularly located on Park Avenue that require 100% down.
I have been observing condo's in Soho, West Village and Tribeca whose sale price is going anywhere from 20 to 70% higher than it was just two years ago. Case and point 299 West 12th street. Studio purchased a couple of years ago purchased for 695 now on the market for 999.
There is definitely some froth going on here. It's a free world market and people can ask what they want particularly when there is a low inventory of condo's in these areas but when spring comes maybe more apts will come on the market then the inventory increase may in fact may punish the flipper. Who knows but prices are getting wackier and wackier in the condo world.

i'm planning on moving back to ny in the fall and will be looking for a co-op. Because of the above comments re: board approval how long does anyone out there think it would take to get approved.

Another factor to consider . . . NYC is a global city that attracts a great deal of international investors in RE, particularly because of the weak U.S. dollar. As long as the dollar remains at current levels, NYC real estate will be a relative bargain -- but co-ops almost never let foreigners buy. So as more global $s come in the market, condos will continue show a greater premium.

Full disclosure -- I have owned two co-ops and selling to buy a codndo. Sick of the ridiculous rules, commie-coop boards, and restrictive rental policies. Co-ops manage somehow to be both elitist and frumpy at the same time. (One example -- It took 5 years to get new furniture in our lobby, and when it arrived everyone bitched).

Run, run, run from co-ops. They are they Murphy Beds of today!

yeah.. zooooooooom! run from co-oppers... i always feel like having a drink before and after a co-op board meeting. so why not have extinguish that feeling and buy into a condo? at least i will save $$$ on seeing dr. crazy for a sit-down stress relief and anger management courses while waiting for a co-op board

I rented in co-ops for 3 years and that experience was warning enough! Happy condo owner here

London is now the world's financial centre, so prices could go down in NYC as business shifts there

Everyone's coop experiences are different. Most buldings in NYC are coops. I recently closed on my coop and the process took about 2 months between contract signing and close; my 'board' meeting was more of a welcome to the building/formality.

I also worked with a buyer's broker who made sure to steer me towards buildings with a reputation for having an easy board. Most people I know who own own coops and haven't had the horror story experiences you hear so much about.

Also, closing costs on coops are much lower. if you're looking to stay somewhere for at least a few years and can find a building with an easy board a coop might be a good way to go.

London is not the world's financial center. It is a world's financial center along with Tokyo, Hong Kong and, yes, New York. New York is a crucial player and more significant than London in many ways. London is more significant than New York in a couple; however, even in those areas they are largely dominated by American banks that are largely based in New York. Wall Street is growing and projected to grow. True that New York may be losing some market share in a couple of insignificant areas to London, but it is gaining market share in a number of significant areas. Thus the statement that "...prices could go down in NYC as business shifts to [London]” is preposterous, because, taken as a whole, business is not shifting to London – if anything the opposite is true.

Sadly not true about London - I aagree with the earlier post. Most of our company's advisory team team (large US bank) is being relocated there as that's where it's now happening. It is the center for a vast majority of Russian/Indian?Chinese flotations. Great for me, but not so hot for the married guys.

Bush really fucked it up for america, travel outside the u.s. and if people really give you their honest opinion you will know what i mean,

after the first election people gave americans the benenfit of the doubt, after america re-elected Bush most of the world is pissed and can you blame them?

blah blah blah!!! let's push politics aside... now let's get back to condos vs co-ops :) to me, co-ops are relatively cheaper... there's one 550 sqft studio in in a midrise building in chelsea going for 299K. on the other hand, it's been in the market for over 3 months now. I was looking at prices for condos this morning.. OMG! that's all I have to say... is anyone crazy to pay $650K for a 500 sqft condo in a new development? I'm sure there's a few. But I seriously hate the fact that I didn't bought it while it was in pre-construction phase for only $485K. Poor me! I wish the city government will write and pass a bill demanding all developers to published detailed date/info/price on newspapers and allow the general public to bid on the property at the same time. It is much better than these so-called "exclusives" word-by-mouth from the exclusive broker to their friends first.

I work at THE preeminent investment bank. While it is true we some folks are shifting overseas in a few discreet areas, and, indeed, even elsewhere in the US with respect to certain cost centers (e.g., IT). It is also true that Lat Am advisory work, derivatives (equity and fixed income) and energy trading are all exploding, and a number of other areas are seeing steady increases (e.g., North American M&A activity). The net sum is that the overall inflow in jobs far exceeds the outflow.

Are condos mor expensive because of not having to buy/sell with the approval of a board or is there something more about a condo. I'm starting to look and never thought about a condo now i'm not sure what to do...help..I live in florida and will be coming up for 2 weeks to find an apt.

a key driver is the board approval process, the rules and the financing. coops not only require board approval for each buyer but most also have stringent financing requirements, i.e. minimum 20% down. Some require more. Many frown upon interest-only loans or ARM's. and many have restrictions on subletting your place, pets, rennovations, etc. it depends on the bldg.

With a condos on the other hand, you can finance it anyway you want and sublet to whomever you want.

most coops also require 1 to 2 years of liquid assets equal to mortgage/maintenance. Some are more flexible on number of months required for this but this is beyond the downpayment.

Condo's do not let you sublet to anyone.

condos let you sublet liberally - are you being sarcastic?

really? condos do not let you sublet? i was shopping for condos for the past 2 months and no one had ever said no to that

i think he is joking. one of the reasons i only looked at condos and i bought one is because of subleases. I am likely not to live in my one bedroom forever and so this was important to me. I dont want to be forced to sell in a bad market, when i could rent it out.

There may be some exceptions, but in generally condos let you sublet liberally and coops are known to have minimum stays before subletting or penalties/harder policies.

I own a condo and have rented my unit in the past. They do require a background check and although I have a final say mine reviews credit, criminal and tennant court background info if any. Like I said I have a final say in who I rent to but I like the back-up checks my condo does.

spunky please explain your previous post which says condos do not let you sublet. It contradicts what you just said and everything else I know.

condo-speaking peoples of New York, get updated here
http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html#links

For New York look at: http://www.housingpredictor.com/newyork.html

I never said Condo's do not let you sublet. I said they won't let you sublet to anyone. My condo for example requires a backgound check.

I'm on the board of our 100-unit condo building. The review of a prospective tenant in a condo is normally just to generate some small fee income for the management company. This makes owners who rent their units foot more of the bill, albeit minimally.

While certainly bylaws vary, most condo boards do not have the right to reject a prospective tenant on any basis other than credit risk. They don't want the problems associated with an owner who gets a tenant who is not paying and won't leave. But even in cases of credit, board are very lenient, at most they say to the unit owner "are your sure your comfortable with this tenant's credit?" In the end, the legal responsibility for the tenant, payment of common charges, disturbances, etc., is with the owner of the condo unit.

so which condo do you oversee? i should try buying there :)

You state that most boards so not have a right to reject a propective tennat on any basis other than a credit risk. Well when they do a background check and a serious criminal report comes back on a prospective tennant does your board have the right to say no or does anything go at your condo.

spunky
about 22 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse Correction to above post-There are some Co-ops particularly located on Park Avenue that require 100% down.
I have been observing condo's in Soho, West Village and Tribeca whose sale price is going anywhere from 20 to 70% higher than it was just two years ago. Case and point 299 West 12th street. Studio purchased a couple of years ago purchased for 695 now on the market for 999.
There is definitely some froth going on here. It's a free world market and people can ask what they want particularly when there is a low inventory of condo's in these areas but when spring comes maybe more apts will come on the market then the inventory increase may in fact may punish the flipper. Who knows but prices are getting wackier and wackier in the condo world.

I found spunky, what was so offensive about his views on condo subletting, stevejhx?