What's the "right" price for a FSBO?

The reasonable compromise is whatever price is agreed to by the seller and the buyer.

An apartment is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for the apartment, at one point in time, FSBO or broker sale. As you yourself admitted, FSBOs have to do work in order to sell their apartments, why are they not entitled to this "commission" for themselves?

Just because some people spend 6% to sell their assets does not require that everyone has to pay that or that the buyer is entitled to a 6% reduction in price, or necessarily 3%. Price is price.

It is funny, I have painted my apartment numerous times, plastered the ceiling myself (a laborious job), paid for new flooring, installed new appliances, lighting fixtures, etc etc. Never at any time when I was doing this work did a real estate agent offer to help me. Now that I am selling my place, there are dozens of agents who are willing to lend me a hand.

I guess the elephant in the room is that brokers raise the price of housing for everyone. I am sure that is not something the real estate industry would like to discuss.

If a buyer doesn't use a buyer's agent aren't they doing all the search work? What is the benefit to them?

"I guess the elephant in the room is that brokers raise the price of housing for everyone. I am sure that is not something the real estate industry would like to discuss."

This is just a silly observation. Our entire economy is predicated on buying and selling with many links in the chain from producer to end user. Through these various distribution arms,agents, wholesalers,brokers and retail outlets- money changes hands, goods are efficiently sold and spread into our dynamic economy promoting growth. You may be good at making cogs, but may not be good at selling them.

This not an anti FSBO rant just a response to your elephant in the room comment.

If a buyer doesn't use a buyer's agent, the buyer can be more certain that he is looking at a wider range of properties and not just those they have been pre-screened by an agent. I am not saying that buyer's agents cannot be helpful, but you have to realize that agents can filter out lower priced properties that might fit your criteria and only show you ones at your maximum price point.

If a buyer's agent does not accompany the buyer to the property in order to show it, what work has the buyer's agent done? Cannot search engines hand out addresses as effectively?

I bought my place in Connecticut in a FSBO in 1992.

The owner had been unsuccessful selling it through a broker so tried FSBO and cut the price nicely. (It was an awful real estate market at the time.)

It was more work for me finding such a place and more work for the seller.

All in all, though, I'd say it was a win-win for both of us. I don't think you can particularly quantify how the quasi "broker's commission" got split - but I'd be quite content with a 50-50 sort of arrangement.

if you want to know the "right" price of an FSBO just click here:

http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

(also, check out the new OPEN HOUSE COUNTDOWN CLOCK)

Mr Burkhardt,
Sometimes people figure out ways to cut out some of those middlemen in order to save on those associated costs. That is also part of our system.

Now sniper, that's a blatant plug! Ok, ok, I have done it too. Are there really buyers on this thread? If so, speak up. I am selling a one bedroom in Midtown.

I still think, in light of fair housing laws, that you need to delete the stuff on your first page about your children and the idea that this apartment is ideally suited for couples or couples with children.

Your apartment is ideally suited for a person with a high enough income to qualify for a loan and pass the board.

Do you think you're going to get an open house crowd on Super Bowl Sunday?

you did not read the countdown clock correctly

if you only quote part of it i could see how it would be "unfair" but it actually is all-inclusive. it says:

"a couple, couple with one child, couple with 2 small children (we have a 2 year old and a 4 year old), empty-nesters who need guest room, singles who want extra room or office...fits lots of lifestyles."

who is left out?

The market determines a price - not the broker, not the fsbo ... the MARKET.

Ah, I have trouble counting nine days into the future. I see, you're skipping this Sunday. I'm not skipping it.

I just think enumerating the kinds of people who can live in your apartment is a little silly. I think your wording can be construed to imply that you are looking for a couple with children, because of the way you mention your own familial status. I have never seen that done before in any ads. I would err on the side of caution,

"When we speak of fair housing regulations for landlords, we are referring specifically to the Fair Housing Act that originated as part of Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968. This act prohibits discrimination against a potential tenant on the grounds of race, color, familial status, handicap, sex, religion or national origin. Landlords must avoid issues of discrimination in each of these areas."

This talks about renting but the rules are the same for buying, as far as I know. How about saying something about being committed to the fair housing law instead?

You have left out the Menage a Trois lifestyle. The apartment is large enough for three adults, but you have excluded this group from your ad.

a more apt title (as the author intended it) would be "what is the right discount - based on broker listed comps - for an FSBO?"

true. i also left out the S&M lifestyle.

"This apartment is perfect for one master, one sub and one gimp in the extra room"

a more apt title (as the author intended it) would be "what is the right discount - based on broker listed comps - for an FSBO?"

What discount? Why should there be a discount? There is no right discount. A FSBO has to work to sell their property. Price is price. If I find a nice FSBO unit at a good price, I will buy it, without going around and around on this subject. As a matter of fact, I have bought a FSBO unit in the past, because I liked the price and the unit.

Agents will use this "discount" idea to hammer FSBOs all day long. Agents will claim they could have gotten a higher price for the FSBO apartment. Of course, there is no way of ever proving this because the asset sold FSBO and not with a broker.

In strong markets, the perception is that a broker is providing maximum marketing/exposure and nudges buyers to bid a "full" price. Buyers of FSBO properties feel like not everyone is seeing the property so there is less competition. In weak markets, doesn't every buyer expect a discount, regardless of how the property is marketed?

My experience in Manhattan is that FSBOs nearly always go broker marketed in the end.

For years, brokers churned apartments in my building at low prices, just in order to get their commissions. They didn't do their sellers any favors. Finally, people got sick of that treatment and managed to sell units at prices that more accurately reflected their value in the market.

407,
Why is a FSBO buyer's time/effort not worth anything but a FSBO seller's is?

FSBOs should sell for less but should net the seller more. That's the key. As Topper said, "win-win". A FSBO that is not willing to offer the buyer a financial incentive is playing to "win all" and generally people don't like that.

I'd agree that brokers can get higher prices but I'd argue that a FSBO can net more from the sale.

As a buyer I expect a discount on a FSBO to comps. And I'd argue an non-represented buyer that doesn't is throwing away money.

I never said the buyer's time was worth nothing. Negotiate a price with the seller and be happy with it. Of course, FSBOs have to be competitive with broker listings in order to sell. Negotiate with both FSBOs and broker represented deals for similar apartments.

"A FSBO that is not willing to offer the buyer a financial incentive is playing to "win all" and generally people don't like that."

Let's see, the owner of the asset is not playing fair because he is trying to maximize his profit, but it's ok to give part of this profit away to someone else who does very little work in exchange for their fee?

I'd agree that brokers can get higher prices but I'd argue that a FSBO can net more from the sale."

The idea that brokers can get higher prices has never been proven. It cannot be proven.

The right price is the price at which the buyer will buy.

The right price is the price at which the seller will sell.

"Let's see, the owner of the asset is not playing fair because he is trying to maximize his profit,"

Who said that? Go ahead, maximize your profit. But why would anyone ever look at FSBOs when there are far more apartments non-FSBO and there is no financial incentive to look at a FSBO?

"...but it's ok to give part of this profit away to someone else who does very little work in exchange for their fee?"

I'm not saying use a broker. I'm saying FSBOs must offer a financial incentive to sell their apartment. The question is, how much?

"Who said that? Go ahead, maximize your profit. But why would anyone ever look at FSBOs when there are far more apartments non-FSBO and there is no financial incentive to look at a FSBO?"

Because some FSBO apartments are nice units that have just as much right to be sold as agent based units. Why not? I am looking for a specific kind of apartment in a specific neighborhood. If a FSBO unit offers what I am looking for, why shouldn't I consider it?

I think FSBOs can be more competitive price-wise because they do not have that fixed 6% fee tacked into the price. Like I said, negotiate with both kinds of units. Maybe sellers will wake up and sell on their own when it means the difference between making some profit on their sale versus losing money because of the commission.

You said:

"FSBO that is not willing to offer the buyer a financial incentive is playing to "win all" and generally people don't like that."

which I took to mean you thought it was unfair, somehow, because people don't like that. I guess I don't understand the point you are making here. What does this "win all" concept have to do with anything?

FSBOs are free to set prices in any way they see fit, as are all owners of broker represented units. All units are different.