Walking away from rental

You wasted a lot of people's time and energy, you should of thought about this before you wasted their time.

waxlion721,

don't worry about what anyone else had to do, you did what was best for you.

Why were you even dealing with a broker? Try to rent on your own, you'll save plenty of moolah and there's lots to choose from out there without having to pay a fee.

You are valid in both your actions and choices. i am sure your husband was courteous. The broker can rent it to somebody else. I am sick and tired of hearing about these broker tantrums. It is business. You are not done until the contract is signed. Your concern reflects that fact that your intent was good and genuine. Do not worry about it.

Brokers get outrageously high fees in part because many deals collapse. That's not your problem, as long as you didn't deliberately go down that path knowing you were going to pull out of the deal.

And moreover, it's not over until the fat lady sings -- about a signed lease and consideration in the form of a deposit.

And evenmoreover, the rental broker was probably sad because he had a good flim-flam he was about to pull on you.

so basically because we get paid so much, i.e. less than .5 of what we actually make, since the rest goes to the company, it is completely ok, for people the person posting this to take us around town, and uses for our resources and then when it is all said and done, figure it is ok to walk away, it is not like our time is worth anything, heck we should only be so pleased that some person was having a life crisis and decided to take up our time and got nothing out of it. Why do you go to work in the am, do a few things around the office and then, heck tell your boss not to pay you, if anything, now you know what you want to do your life. Tha'ts the point, I mean, good for you, but it is still selfish.

bmw: i guess anybody who doesnt take the first apartment you show them is wasting your time.

I've had plenty of brokers waste my time, showing me stuff they haven't seen, so they dont even know if it fits my specification.

borkers are the worst. porked up over the last 5 yrs and continue to pork up.

wrong. I have shown clients at least 10 to 20 apartments each time, what i respect, is that they respect ME and my TIME.

bmw: angry much? i hear the broker biz isn't going so well right now :(

It's the life of any agent, matchmaker or dealmaker. You plan on a certain percentage of business working it's way to the end of that funnel. The percentage can't be 100% or 0%. If you can't accept that, your life as an agent, matchmaker or dealmaker will be very stressful and you're probably in the wrong type of business.

its

no, i am not angry, I do well for myself, life is always a challenge and I make the best of it, I just put myself in this broker's shoes and i feel bad about it, it is not like i am the cheerleader for brokers, I have my own set of issues with the system, it is hard to work, but to do this is rude, think before you act. Alan, i agree with you, unfortunately this is the nature of the business. Its a beautiful day outside people, i am glad that this person above posting got their life straightened out, i just have emphaty for the person that got used.

*empathy

In this broker's shoes? The couple decided not to go forward as they were not comfortable. They called to let the broker know they were not going forward. The broker did not "get used" - it is part of the process. The post alone shows concern. Your soap box attitude reeks of anger and bitterness.

You may do "well for yourself" -- but you are angry and your posts are toxic.

bmw - wow, you are opening yourself up here. i am in sales myself and i often have to tell myself "this is the life i choose." you do it either because you like/love it AND enjoy the possible big payoff that comes from time to time. otherwise - get out and go get a steady paycheck. showing all those apartments and spending your time only to end up with NADA is part of the territory. you know that. it is okay to be upset when that happens, i get upset too. but remember - don't hate the player, hate the game.

manhattanfox, with all due respect, you do not know me, so, really you are just projecting, look how many times, I said good for the couple, I just think that it is helpful for us in our community to not get used by people. Do not wait until lease signing to decide that the apartment is too expensive for you, speak up beforehand, you just think i am toxic because i am actually speaking my mind.

bmw: looking out my window, I will bring this day to a close around dark, oh, and I started this morning while it was still dark. Thereby earning the right to pay 40% 10% 4%. It's all good. So enjoy the sunshine, post back how your stroll went.

but, of course, two wrongs do not make a right.

yes many brokers lie, skip details (like sq footage), and show people places that are beyond their stated means.

hard to know without more facts here but if nothing changed (i.e. life circumstances) between accepting the price verbally and backing out I can understand the frustration. i think we can all agree best to do the number crunching before saying yes.

I appreciate your responses. To put things into some perspective, we saw three apartments with this broker. We didn't spend a lot of time with him and he wasn't the listing broker for this apartment. We absolutely respected and appreciated his time and effort, but realize that we are the ones responsible for the rent payments and I would feel much worse if I had signed the lease, than pulling out.

Are there any other compensation models for real estate that aren't linked to the completion of a deal?

sniper, you are right, today i am out of the ordinary, i am hardly ever that opinionated, particularly not in public like this, but you are right, i need to calm down, because I do love what I do, and I would waste my time any time to do a deal. Thanks sniper, you are always so cool.

I'm in sales (not real estate) and have presented long and detailed proposals, wined and dined clients and then they decided they cannot afford the product at this time. That's the nature of sales..for you to be angry at someone who walks away from an agreement before it's signed is unprofessional..if you cannot understand this you should work in an industry that pays a straight salary not a commission driven profession.

but why did you say yes before you were sure?

bmw - I think it may be a good idea to look at this example a little differently. So, the broker didn't close the deal but may have established a relationship with a current renter/future buyer as well as with his/her chain of friends and relatives. Gone are the days of quick returns with little sweat.

thanks for the compliment. i knew something was off. you are usually one of the more grounded brokers on here.

dg156, very good point. Positive note.

Wax no big deal, shi* happens...If I got bent out of shape for every almost deal I would look like a pretzel! The broker is just stressed because because things are rough. Next time call me.

We thought we were sure. We could afford this rent, but after figuring out what the debt/income would be and factoring in the additional costs of purchasing ac units, window treatments, commute costs began to realize our initial number work was incomplete. This process makes me think of falling in love, the infatuation and rapture where you fail to see the warts and blemishes. The initial reaction was a big wow. Thinking about it over the span of a week, reality set in and we decided that we couldn't do it. For what it is worth, I see how people got sucked it to mortgages they couldn't afford. Last year's income was bigger based on one-time reimbursements. Based on these numbers, the rent would have been a breeze, but no chance of seeing that this year. So yes, we got caught up in the excitement, but sobered up before signing.

julia--I too am in sales and understand and have experienced the lengthy courtship followed by disappointment. what would frustrate me (and luckily I have not had this experience) is the customer/ client saying yes to the deal and its economics and then coming back later (again absent material change) and saying whoops, I shouldn't have said yes because i failed to properly analyze my own financial situation. to me, saying yes means yes not...let me see if i can really do this.

Its the nature of the business and their choice.

You are being responsible, made the right decision and the broker has no right to be upset. People assuming property they couldn't afford because of pushy brokers is part of what got the country into this mess. Moreover, when the market was hot, that "very upset" broker would have thought nothing of wasting YOUR time and effort in putting together all the paperwork necessary to finalize the agreement. If there was another potential renter willing to rush over to the broker's office with all the necessary documents and cash only minutes before you were scheduled to meet and finalize the agreement, that broker would have kicked you to the curb. Good luck in finding an apartment that is right for you.

Happens all the time. Brokers have wasted my time taking me to junk apartments that clearly aren't what I want, etc. It goes both ways. I also sympathize with your situation -- getting caught up in a place and then realizing, at the last minute, that you went beyond what you really wanted. I made an offer on a place, got caught up in negotiations with broker and ended up making some offers that I really wasn't comfortable with. It was my inexperience, and the broker played a good game of getting me to moev more than I wanted. Ultimately I called the broker while the seller was considering my offer and said, "hey, I'm really sorry but after thinking about it over the weekend, I'm no longer comfortable with the deal. Please inform seller, and if seller is intersted on the terms we spoke about originally, great, and if not, sorry." No guilt, bc I acted in good faith.

One additional thought. It wasn't an exclusive.

Is it unimaginable that although the OP had agreed to terms with his broker (and maybe there was agreement with the listing broker and the landlord as well), a more desirable tenant/agreement might be brought by any other co-broker to the listing broker before a lease was executed for the OP? Wouldn't the listing broker be legally obligated to present it to the landlord, and wouldn't the OP and his broker be out of luck?

That scenario was commonplace only a short time ago.

The street swings both ways; that's the way the cookie bounces.

These brokers are vermin that live by sucking a few drops of blood from any host they can latch themselves to. Why cant they be replaced by an on-line system. The only reason I can come up with is then landlords, who are only one step above brokers, won't be able to discriminate and hide listings from the brothers and sisters (hermanos and hermana)

No one should ever, EVER, be afraid to walk away from a deal right up to the second that you're about to sign for it. For whatever reason...it makes no difference. You do whatever is best for you, and if you think walking away is what's best, so be it. As a salesman, I've had plenty of deals that fell apart at the last minute...when I was already planning on what I was going to do with the commissions. Most of the time, I continued working with those clients until we got the deal right, and have made a lot of money from them over the years. Throwing a tantrum and blowing up a relationship is not going to make you any money.

bmw - if you don't like it, then choose another career. It's pretty ballsy to say they wasted your time. This is business and what you offered didn't work for them...case closed. That attitude is a part of the reason have bad reputations. Here is some advice, next time a deal doesn't work out, look in the mirror for the reason why. Maybe you should have listened to them for clues that this apartment was more than they could afford? Maybe you could have helped foster a relationship built on trust and honesty and you could have showed them a more appropriate apartment for their needs? maybe you could have knocked a couple of bucks of your commission to help the deal work out?

Take some responsibility for your own actions and stop making this nice woman feel bad for having the guts to make a smart and difficult decision.

Do you get it yet?

Probably not....

I was about to jump all over beemer for his absurd admonishment but see others have beaten me to the punch...

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with what you did, wax. It is entirely your prerogative to change your mind even if everyone is standing in a room with a contract waiting for you to put pen to paper. If the deal's not right, it's not right.

As for the tantrumy broker? To hell with him. He's not worth a second thought here. Lost deals are par for the course in the real estate business, and if he's throwing a hissy fit over this then he might want to consider another line of work. His behavior is, at the very least, unprofessional.

YOU are the client. YOUR happiness is first and foremost. Stick to your guns and be damned what anyone else thinks.

BMW - the iconic motorcar and very symbol of the "me first" Yuppy generation of the 80's. Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you. It seems to me that 'BMW' fits this brokers persona quite nicely.

Wax - It's easy to get excited, then justification after justification...ugh. Awesome that you came to your senses. It's always wise to avoid overextending IMO. I hope you find a place you like just as much...or better!! Plus, it always feels good to have financial flexibility. Good Luck.

BTW - have you tried negotiating the price down? Maybe it could still be yours :) If not, there are MANY more out there.

feeling bad about breaking a deal shouldn't be a reason to enter into a lease that you can't afford. maybe this thread is a lesson in how much brokers have been part of pumping this real estate bubble in the first place.

"maybe this thread is a lesson in how much brokers have been part of pumping this real estate bubble in the first place."

You can remove the "maybe" from that one.

so...I walk into an apartment...agent tells me the price....I say "great, you've got a deal"...then I call back and say "whoops, I actually did the arithmetic and realized that I actually can't swing the price that I already agreed to."

this is ok behavior?

as I said earlier two wrongs do not make a right. why give brokers ammunition for their bad behavior? why not figure out what you can actually afford before you actually say, we've got a deal.

perhaps you might say, "wow, i love this place...it may be a stretch...let me sit down and carefully consider it and i'll let you know."

2 wrongs aren't always "wrongs".

This is all so silly.....

Why is anyone so surprised that a deal fell apart? Is this some kind of a first? It happens in every business and is par for the course. The fact that the OP has been made to feel guilty that she needs to post is bad enough. This broker made sure he would never get a referral.

2 wrongs make a right, so long as you close the deal.
Remember, if you want to be able to look at Ed Harris in the eyes and tell him your watch is worth more then his car, your only chance is to ALWAYS BE CLOSING.

Sales are sales...i can understand complaining/venting/breaking something/etc but in the end, it's your own fault no matter what, cause get what (like someone above said) you chose this biz...grow a giant pair and close that deal, regardless.
ALWAYS BE CLOSING
otherwise you'll always be chasing those leads (I need those glengary leads...just a couple leads will get me back on my feet...come on, just a couple.)

hope someone got a chuckle

I laughed, thanks!. My personal favorite:

Your name is "you're wanting", and you can't play the man's game, you can't close them, and then tell your wife your troubles. 'Cause only one thing counts in this world: get them to sign on the line which is dotted. You hear me you fuckin' faggots?

excellent...excellent

humor is key.

>>so...I walk into an apartment...agent tells me the price....I say "great, you've got a deal"...then I call back and say "whoops, I actually did the arithmetic and realized that I actually can't swing the price that I already agreed to."<<

Yep. There is no 'deal' until a contract is signed. Period.

only in new york city are there "broker fees" for finding an apartment. first off "finding" a place and charging 15% of 1 yrs rent is a JOKE. never feel bad, its the biggest farce around. if it was a resonable precentage level, then one could argue that its wrong that you wasted time. but for example, you rent out an 2bed 2bath apartment at $5600 and you pay a 15% of brokers fee of $10,000, u think the broker was worth that for a 1yr lease or more, let alone the company as he/she probably just gets half of that commission. These fees need to drop considerably. Considering they are cutting wall street salaries, these broker numbers are just as outrageous.

I did this about 10 year ago, although it wasn't for any financial reason. I didn't feel bad, the broker represented the owner and had a good opportunity to rent to someone else and make his fee. And effectively I was paying the owner to get someone to help her find a renter for the apartment to pay monthly rent. Unless a party wants to hire a broker to find places and the broker is representing the renter, then the system must change where the renter pays the fee. Right now, in this environment, renters need to get some balls and say no to broker fees in condos and co-ops. And ask for the 2 months free too, or better yet, push hard for 20% off.

note this other string
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/8877-citihabitats

renting/buying an apartment is not a completely financial decision...there is a substantial amount of emotion involved and brokers prey upon that. my point (which i recognize that i have beaten to death) is that it is never wise to ignore the golden rule.

i will not agree that it is ok to say "we have a deal" if you don't mean it.

"BTW - have you tried negotiating the price down? Maybe it could still be yours :) If not, there are MANY more out there."

UWSMom, good advice. I did this just recently, and it saved the deal. Landlords are very willing to negotiate in this environment.

excellent strategy....

and then he tells you he was kidding and that the price is $140!

the you both take it out on the street.

now that's a formula to get the economy moving.

no, then i burn down the gym....of course
jeeez, haven't you guys learned
i only play teh games i win at

hahahah

And ultimately, it takes 'Brass balls, great big brass balls' to play this game
go home to mommy otherwise
always bidness

as i said, a hell of a stimulus package.

bend over, i'll show you my stimulus package
ahahahahahah
come on, you set me up on that one

you got me...

mildly_shriveled, bmw are my initials!!! I have worked my entire life extremely hard, and everything that I have, I have earned it honestly and with hard work. Nobody handed me anything, and i went into this business, to represent people, because I felt that there was a need for someone like me in the context.
I agree that people can and do change their minds, I was referring to the way in which the events unfolded. Imagine if other people were turned down for the apartment because this deal was happening? it wasn't just the broker that lost time and money, but also the landlord and the other person wanting to rent it out.
Communication is key, I know that sounds weird, but it is 100% ok not to sign your life away, particularly in this or any other economy, and any one of my clients would go ahead and communicate this to me before lease signing. I am very sure of that, I have respect and appreciation for the relationships i manage to be part of; very open and with a very positive level of trust. I can look at them in the eye without fear, because everything I do, it is to represent them and in their best interest, even if it means no $$ for me, and you know what? what matters to me is the relationship, the fact that you can tell me how you feel or what you are thinking.

Brokers get paid to rent apartments. If you don't sign a lease, then they haven't rented the apartment. Therefore, they don't get paid. Nothing wrong with that. Sucks for them, but frankly, their very existence sucks for the rest of the world. If they wanted more out of life, they would have finished college.

>>i will not agree that it is ok to say "we have a deal" if you don't mean it.<<

Columbia, either side is within his rights to walk away for any reason at any time before a lease or contract has been signed, verbal agreement or no. Whether or not it feels 'ok' is irrelevant. There's no place for sentiment in business.

so i guess there is no place for ethics either then huh squid? and slope11217, some of us have more than a college degree :)

i am not being sentimental...i think of it as practical. everything works more effectively when we can rely on what we each say to one another to be true. if i say we have a deal, and you assume that means that we may or may not, that slows things down for no upside. as i said many posts ago, why can't we be truthful? you are absolutely correct that either side is within their rights to walk away, but can someone please explain to me why if wouldn't be easier to say what you mean in the first place?

Truthful? Come on. In the case we're discussing it is entirely possible the OP TRULY expected to go through with the deal when she first said yes. So, she was being TRUTHFUL in her agreement. But on further consideration she realized the deal was not right for her. And so she backed out.

And bmw--huh? Ethics? Don't be absurd. We're not talking Bernie Madoff here. Real estate deals fall through all the time for myriad reasons. That's just the nature of the beast and those who choose to make a living in the RE business need to expect a percentage of failed deals along the way and factor them in accordingly.

but can someone please explain to me why if wouldn't be easier to say what you mean in the first place?

There is a very good reason that real estate transactions require a written contract. People frequently make very poor on-the-spot decisions. Very few things are more emotional than where one decides to live (who one decudes to spend one's life with or whether to procreate, obviously, but hopefully one doesn't decide those in a couple of weeks). Should people consider all the angles before they start looking? Probably. Do people usually do so? Not really.

columbia, I love ya buddy, but we're arguing in circles here. They DID 'say what they mean in the first place'.

Aboutready makes a great point that psychology plays a major role in these situations. You see a place, you love the place, you say YES! I'll take it!! Then, a day or two in, reality starts to take hold and you realize as much as you desperately WANT and NEED that wonderful apartment, it is simply too much of a stretch for you. So, you bail.

Now, would it have been better for the OP to determine and stick to a budget BEFORE saying yes to this place? Absolutely. But it still doesn't mean her actions were unethical, or that she failed to be 'truthful'. Her actions were, perhaps, somewhat misguided.

love you too.

note new thread below. absolutely hilarious.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/8890-fast-contract-signing

I'm already on it ;)