3BR+ for $1.5M range? C'est possible?

i have been looking for something similar and so far nothing quite satisfactory. I have learned that what you and I are interested in is NOT a classic 6. It is perhaps what they call a classic 7.
These do not seem to be available in this range so far.

what have you seen that's been even close to the mark? This was one thing we saw last Spring http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/150496-coop-622-west-114th-street-morningside-heights-new-york

There is a property at 410 CPW that is close. It has three bedrooms, plus dining space, plus a former entrance foyer that could be office space. Needs kitchen renovation, living room itself is small, but is only $1.15M. Sorry, I didn't notice the maint., could be higher as it is a combo, but for 1600 sf for under $1.2m maybe that wouldn't be such an issue.

Actually, maint. is under $1500.

Thanks. Said spouse will not agree to non-windowed office. I am kindof curious about stuff in the high 1 - 2M range where sellers may be getting anxious as it becomes clear we're near the start of the downturn. I know of one person, for example, who bought a beautiful apt of this type on upper west end in 1996 for about 500k. Got to think that sort of seller will ultimately make do with $1.5 when it comes to that . . . which I am convinced it eventually will (if not even going futher down)

If this one comes back on the market, I suspect it will eventually get to $1.5MM.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/359299-coop-420-riverside-dr-morningside-heights-new-york
Fun, rambling apartment, but dark and a bit weird. You might try contacting the sellers directly. It's possible that Elliman has no claim on them at this point, which would give them another 5-6% to play with.

West81st, didn't read the specs carefully enough, needs maint. under $2000.

7ish, some baby boomers, or recently unemployed, will undoubtedly sell at those prices. When that becomes the case, you won't need us to point you in that direction. In any market that is not overheated there are always a few bargain apartments. A little bit of work and they aren't that hard to find. Most people do not spend nearly as much time as you'd might think in this process.

Sorry about that. Here's another where it might be worth befriending the doorman and dropping off a nice note: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/348725-coop-755-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

West81st, nice apt. For me, kitchen is too narrow, but otherwise layout is perfect. If you don't want the husband to help chop veggies it could be perfect.

damn...I am impressed with both of these...i would give you the extra $300 on the maint. for the first one.

yes 622 w 114th meets the bill. It was a nice apt. Saw it when it was at 1.8 million. building is not impressive, but apt was better than many. Realtor was informed and hard working.
Considered it seriously as the price came down, but they decided not to sell -- got busy with child production and need the space for the product.
420 riverside never came down to the 1.5 range. did go see it and rambling and almost maze like but could work if the price came down
410 cpw is a combo one I think and the layout is challenging. the views are wallish, not bad, but almost depressing when you are on the Park block.
I think in the 1.75 to 2.25 range the choices exist.

oui

Hey 7ish. I have a PERFECT place for you. Only thing is not a separate dining room but it is a separate dining area in huge living room. Its a 3 bed/conv 4 and all with windows and maint/tax is under $1000.00 per month!!!! . email me if you want more details. rglazer@bhsus.com

7ish...you have yourself a case of watching and waiting. I doubt many (if any) sellers would hit a bid @ 700 per sq ft when the market is still around 900-1100 (depending on exact location).

After the market works it way to 750-900, then you "go to work".

Patience required.

7ish: Although I can't point to a particular listing that meets all of your specifications, I think the market has reached a point where the apartment you describe, in certain buildings and certain parts of the UWS, could be priced at or below your number. Consider this listing:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/266247-coop-205-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york
It was just reduced to $1.25MM, way below your cap. Monthlies are not bad at $1924, and all it's missing is a window in the office and separation between the living room and dining area. The building and neighborhood lack charm, but 205 is actually a very nice family co-op with good facilities.

Agreed West81st. This is a nice apartment if you can get over the fact that it is in Lincoln Towers. The location is actually quite good. I've been in a similar apartment in the building and was pleasantly surprised by the quality, view, amenities etc.

"who bought a beautiful apt of this type on upper west end in 1996 for about 500k"

why wouldn't the mkt go down to those levels given that the economy is going to be much worse during the next few years than it was in 1996? you are basically paid for not buying right now.

ive been making the exact same search for some time now ...getting there, but not yet.
there was a Classic 7 on 106th that was good, but needed renovations.

On the other hand, a friend of mine just bought a 4-Br house in Monclair NJ for $425K ....35 mins from Penn station and great schools.

And here we are still hoping somthing tolerable w 1500 sq feet might get into the range of triple this price..?

The only thing that made the outrageous NYC RE prices tolerable was the pseudo-promise of perpetual appreciation ...and where is that now? Now that the banks have been all but nationalised will we ever see the ridiculous compensation in finance that drove these crazy prices? The other arguments I always heard for the ever-appreciation were foreign investment and geographic restraints. For the first, see global markets, and the second vacancy rates (plus new developments.)

The DOW has dropped to a dozen-year old levels, but NYC RE pries have dropped what, 4 years, maybe?

I may be overly bearish, but why should such appartments not be a million or less in the next little while? Anyone have good reasons why not?

admin..."why wouldn't the mkt go down to those levels given that the economy is going to be much worse during the next few years than it was in 1996? you are basically paid for not buying right now."

This is by NO MEANS 'scientific' but a little back of the envelope math goes something like...

2008 US GDP = $ 14.28 trillion
1996 US GSP = $ 7.82 trillion

If GDP falls by 7% in 2009 (a very bearish number that is far worse than any 'professional' economist is calling for) that would put 2009 GDP at 13.28 trillion.

So, based on the notion that real estate is linked to GDP (which is not my view, this is just an 'exercise'), that $500k, 3BR in 1996 'should be' worth $849 if NYC real estate grows at the same rate as US GDP. (13.28 / 7.82) * 500k = 849K

Just puttin' some numbers on a statement. No 'attack' intended towards "admin". Please don't take it that way.

In time you will find 3brs for under $1million. . .easy.

Starting to get close to your specs, but we're not there yet. I, for one, would stongly consider jumping in if we could get what you are looking for at that price and would be very interested at the bears' point of view on that price point.

"No 'attack' intended towards "admin". Please don't take it that way."

LOL i love to be proven wrong. still, i'm with tripel here: "The only thing that made the outrageous NYC RE prices tolerable was the pseudo-promise of perpetual appreciation ..", that's right on target.

walterh7: given how GDP is calculated, i'd accept more relevant comparisons, like discretionary income and rents used as the fundamental variable.

in terms of possibility for overshooting downwards, anybody here thinks that the people that bought at much lower levels (like this friend that bought a lovely 3BR for $500k in 1996) can have trouble or can become unwilling to pay high carrying costs without the promise of further price appreciation? how many of these guys would like to cash in their equity? many of them are close to retirement watching their home value plunge and have a lot of room to negotiate prices.

"The only thing that made the outrageous NYC RE prices tolerable was the pseudo-promise of perpetual appreciation .."

my gut feeling is that the promise of appreciation not only was the only thing keeping prices inflated but also the only thing making high carrying costs palatable.

And here is the dream apartment with the night mare CC.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/351120-condop-343-east-74th-street-upper-east-side-new-york
Maybe they will pay you to take it off their hands!

falco -- love the $7K common charges there .....minor issue, though

as for the GDP argument, I found a website the other day (apologies to author as i cant remember) that laid out how GDP is a very decieving metric -- domestic includes foreign investment (ie buying our debt) and gross excludes depreciation ....should be looking at Net National Product (NNP) as the relevant metric.

I'm no economist, but I found this interesting ...think it just means more bad news though

admin, I agree 100%. Like I said, just performing an exercise. Glad you took it in the manner intended.

Great point about tolerability of high common charges/mtc. Its kinda like staying in a job you really don't like because it pays well. When the pay flattens or drops, there is no sense putting up with the BS.

Thanks to all. One of the apts mentioned is owned by someone we know and we gently offered 25% off ask. They said no way, no thanks but still hoping they'll come back to us in time.

tripel, it might have been John Williams's website. he has a good reputation for crunching numbers and delivering the indexes net of changes made by each administration (inflation and unemployment under clinton went through a whole new definition, so one should/could undo those changes when using time series). for weird things about how GDP is calculated:

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/57

This is fantastic apt:
http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1363707&ohDat=3/8/2009%2012:00:00%20AM;

It has everything you want: separate office for your husband, low maintenance, great amenities, excellent location, and when you divide the dining room, three nice sized bedrooms. I talk more about it on my blog:
http://nychousewhisperer.blogspot.com/2008/12/another-apt-i-lovebigger-and-more.html

If you let me take you, I can show you an apartment that has already divided the dining room and made that bedroom. It feels like it's always been there...

Nan: I think that apartment has a lot of potential (see http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5265-open-house-reports-uws-92308-92508, where I botched the address). The problem is that it's priced at $1.595MM and needs a fair amount of work to turn it into a 3BR; plus the kitchen is shot. To achieve an all-in cost of $1.5MM, 7ish would have to get it for around $1.3MM and go through the pain and delay of renovating. And after all that, the dining room would still be a windowless carve-out, not a real room.

I do like the building, and the location is great for people who need the express train.

It's been sitting on the market a while...I don't know if $1.3 is conceivable, and you're right, it does need a new kitchen. Although the dining room would be windowless, because the adjacent foyer is so large, it doesn't feel closed in. I love how that 3rd bedroom would be part of the family wing, and not just an "add on"...

nshipley wrote....."I don't know if $1.3 is conceivable"

Thus in impasse in the RE mkt. A big game of chicken.

I've always liked 250 W 94, too. Nice feel to the lobby, and they did a good job on the elevators.

The link above was fun, because it led to http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5338-huge-price-drops-today. Some perspective for we SE newbies....

NWT: Are you looking to stir up trouble there, my young friend? Julia and I made up months ago. We're good.

Take a look at this.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/366513-coop-251-west-95th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

The maintenance is slightly above your requirement, but the asking is $1.599, so I think you can make it work with a decent discount.

:-) You're right, impossible to get a whole story, so best not to point to one little bit of it. I did enjoy that thread, though....

251 West 95th was converted about 4-5 years ago. If 3N sellers bought at that time, they probably paid a touch under 1m. If they have to move, now is not the time to play around with pricing. If I were them, I'd price at 1.1m and just get out of it.

I know that the broker owns in this building. If she owns 3N, it's not quite as depicted in the online listing ...

nyc10023: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/28263. I don't see a disclosure either. Odd.

You made me look it up on ACRIS to refresh my memory. 2N was on the market 1.5 years ago as a wreck (I believe it was written up in NYT), finally traded hands for 1.3m. I went to look at both units 2N & 3N a month ago (marketed as combo). 2N is still on market (I think it's the one listed at 1.99m). 3N is the broker's unit. I don't want to be too critical online, but it looks nothing like the pictures as anyone else who has gone to the open house can attest. 3N traded 4-5 years ago for a touch over 800k.

That's her. The rest is on ACRIS.

Is at just a convention, not a rule, that an owner-broker says so? (Not that it matters.)

Don't know why, but I expect a bit of a better ad from a Stribling broker. E.g., not mentioning the live-in super, since every building has one. "Central heat! Doors! Windows!"

ord,
nice pick up!

Wow, my complements to the thread. Seems like all the brains were home today on SE.
Next time I want help for a search I'll wait for a snow day.
Hot coco and RE advice...warming the feet by the fire watching the Dow head for 2000.
Going to be quite a year.

It's not a convention that an owner-broker says so, it's New York State law (though I believe the timing of the disclosure is somewhat discretionary). To prevent us from taking advantage of non-professionals, I guess.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

7ish, why the insistence on maintenance below $2000? What you're describing sounds like 2000SF or so, meaning you want maintenance below $1.00psf. That happens, but is very rare, so I think you're artificially restricting yourself. Price is negotiable, maintenance isn't. I'd bump your maintenance limit to $3000, and adjust pricing accordingly (say $1.5MM with $2000 maintenance, $1.4 with $2500 maintenance, or $1.3 with $3000 maintenance, or something like that).