The Lore

I just read a thread that this building had just crossed 51% in sales. That would be very good for this building. What I did not like it is right next door to a school and the view when you come out is of a complex that does not look very nice. The prices that are listed are outrageous for what you get.

I may be a minority on this ..but I am starting to try to follow ppsf in the marginal areas (yesterday someone posted asking of 650psf in jersey city was good...yikes...). So this place at over 800psf seems to much to me and I don't know anything about the area. At some point, in a deflating bubble, I think you need to start asking what makes frigging sense. This merits a buyers's strike until prices are lower..

my humble opinion

It's an unsightly building on an atrociously ugly block. Anyone who has bought in this building will rue the day, particularly when one considers the number of competing new condos in the immediate area, at least a few of which are sited on considerably nicer blocks.

No more than $600 psf on this or really any Harlem building right now or you will be falling into the same trap others did in 2006/07. And I love Harlem and might want to live there. But only at $600 psf or less.

I have not looked at this building yet but have started looking at several of the other buildings in the area and would be interested in buying but I am having a very hard time trying to reconcile the sheer quantity of inventory on the market and the current price points. I wonder how long this scenario will actually be sustainable by developers? Thoughts?

The reason you are "having a very hard time trying to reconcile the sheer quantity of inventory on the market and the current price points" is because they are irreconcilable, and ultimately, unsustainable. The problem is that enough people continue to sign contracts to make it seem otherwise. There are two half floor apartments at Soho North on W. 124th Street that until recently were asking more than 200K over the closing price on that building's full floor penthouse! That is magical thinking. Patience. I predict that it will take one more spring season, max, before the ground gives way.

I doubt this hit 51%. 1D went into contract about a week ago and nothing for a long time before then. I looked at the Lore when it opened, the apts are a nice size and seem bigger than other buildings showing similar size units. Prices need to come down. If they accept 500k for the 2 beds then things will move. Otherwise, The Douglas kicks its ass in terms of location and quality IMO.

There are 35 units in the building with 10 units going through HPD lottery. If what the halstead site is correct about 8 units being under contract. Then that gets 18/35 sold which is over 51%.

You are correct, I didnt include the lottery units.

7 sold, 10 lottery is still roughly 50% not 65%. Some of the units have been in contract for months and months. First unit is already up for rent. I was very interested in the building and did some homework. No reserve fund. No warranties whatsoever. Sponsor/developer basically retains all decision making rights (is also affiliated with both the security and the management company) but has no accountability. No one living there yet it seems (and you won't get a clear answer if you ask). Without tax abatement the tax liability will be $850+/per month. I haven't yet decided how I feel about these abatements, but $1,500+ a month just for maintenance and RE taxes sounds like a steep number (that's what you pay for a high end coop on the UWS). Resale value will reflect this.

The building itself, common areas and apartments look nice. Roofdeck is great, so is the gym area. However, the garden is already dried up, plants and grass is dead, despite super who should be taking care of it. Assessment for the new owners? Also garbage smell in the building.

The school next door, the family academy, is now a failing school. They lost their funding for afterschool programs and such a while ago and were required to enroll a lot of unruly students under the 'no child left behind' act. According to the police (if you are thinking about buying go to the 28th precinct and talk to them, they are very helpful) the school isn't a safety problem (it's a K through 8). On the other hand, 114 street between 7 and 8 Aves remains a war zone. The Columbia University deal fell through. (They wanted to buy the south side of that bock, which is now boarded up, the north side is a NYCHA housing project. The police put roadblocks up, so no one can drive through.) There is still a lot of drug activity on 8th Ave that the police is trying to get control over. Children shouldn't hang out in the neighborhood (according the officer I spoke to).

Honest brokers will tell you that this neighborhood is really block-by-block. I, personally, had a much more comfortable feeling on Manhattan Ave. Cleaner, more families.

Whoops I thought this was about the Loire valley.. never mind.

Bedbug, I have looked at and done research on the building as well. Your point on the Sponsor having all the decision making is a little misleading. It is typical for the Sponsor to have the decision making power in a new construction until there are enough closings to be able to form the condo board. At that time, the decision making turns over to the board and the Sponsor steps back. Last time I visited the building they had scafolding up in the back as they were finishing the balconies so that might have something to do with the garden being dried up. I agree that in general, the apartments and common areas look really nice.

The building just started closing on units at the end of June. It is difficult these days to get financing in general, especially on new construction condos. I would imagine some of the units in contract won't be able to close due to obtaining a mortgage until there are additional contracted units/closed units.

I agree that area needs to be looked at block-by-block. I'm sure there is drug activity on 8th, but 8th between 110th and 125th has already changed drastically in the past few years and I personally believe that is where the best value is long-term when buying in that area.

nycstretch, I am not trying to make the building look bad. I liked it enough to seriously consider making an offer on a unit. However, the sponsor will retain control over the board until all but 2 units are sold. And he is not forced to sell. He might just have an incentive (management + security service income) to keep those last two units... That in addition to the lack of reserve and the fact that the buyer has to pay seller's closing costs and them some (fees etc, I remember a number of 10,000+) just makes this a bit murky.

Also, I just read in a NY times article that the 28th precinct is number 7 (of all 78 NY precincts) for violent crime. I wish it weren't so.

Bedbug, nycstretch, et al. I closed in the building and have been living here for about 3 weeks. Regarding some of your comments...naturally, closing costs are negotiable. I think most people are probably not paying them. The garden is being nursed back to health. The scaffolding has been down for quite a while (they were finishing off the plaster on the balconies). The neighbors are moving in. I must check on the issue of the last 2 units being sold in order for a transfer of management to the association. That may be so, I am just not certain yet (I am awaiting my documents from my lawyer and it has been painfully slow). It is true that the security and the management are both run by the developer. They are doing a decent job, though. I would imagine there will eventually be a shift when the association begins. That remains to be seen. Overall, I think the developer is honest. Though it is true that there is no warranty, the developer is fixing everything and being quite honest about it. There are always punch lists, too, and a lawyer should put wording in a contract to warrant the time between closing and occupancy so that anything that goes awry during that period is also covered. And some things did, indeed, happen, but the developer has been good about it. I looked at almost, if not all the buildings around here, including the Douglas. I found this to be the nicest and best built. But that is just my opinion, of course.

I am in the process of purchasing a unit in this building. Can anyone inform me what is the percentage of units sold?

I am also living in the building and was even quoted in today's (Thursday's) New York Post saying that I decided to buy despite "snarky message board posts on Streeteasy.com." (That was a reference to messages posted in this thread six months ago. I closed in late June. I was the second person to close.)

I have been told there is only one unit left for sale. Each week there are more people moving in.

Bedbug refers to "the school next door," but the building actually houses three schools. The largest by far is Harlem Success Academy, which is a thriving charter elementary school with a great school culture. Of the other two schools, one is a very small failing elementary school whose students will soon be absorbed by Harlem Success Academy and other neighboring schools when it closes. The other is a special needs high school, but the entrance to that school is on 113th Street, not 112th Street.

Bedbug's issue about about the warranty is no minor matter, but it's a risk I took.

Regarding safety, the neighborhood is nothing like the Upper West Side when I was growing up. I watched that neighborhood gentrify. Before that, it was far more dangerous, and look at it now. If you want value, you have to have a little bit of a frontier mentality. Safety is important, but I actually hope the neighborhood doesn't gentrify too fast. With the Livmor, Douglass, and Lore filling up and other buildings in the works, that is a real danger.

Does anyone have links to these articles on crime etc? There are still penthouses listed as available. I just don't understand why these developers are not putting parking in these buildings, if you are up in Harlem you need parking.

How do you know the Columbia deal fell through to buy the 114th strip of boarded up GOV housing.

The police officer that I spoke to mentioned that the deal fell through. However, I also heard that the housing projects on the north side of the street are currently only 30% occupied and that the city wants to sell the whole block to a developer that will build at least some affordable housing. This is broker talk though, so I cannot vouch for the validity.

In all honesty, I think that adding a garage just makes some projects too expensive and the Lore is only two short blocks from the subway. (The Douglass has a garage, if you want one.)

I am happy to hear that the developer seems to be solid and taking care of his buildings. I believe it would have been a good choice to buy in the Lore when they still had availability and were negotiable. JMHO

Holmes, from what I am hearing, there are 5 units left, all penthouse units (one sold).

I believe that the roof deck allotment that comes with the penthouses is negotiable--that is, one does not absolutely have to buy them that way. The one that sold does not appear to have been sold with a roof deck, judging from the price. This would reduce the price of the penthouses dramatically. But, with just penthouses left, maybe they will not be as negotiable. It is worth putting a bid in.

FYI, bedbug, the $10,000 creation fee was discontinued. It's an absurd concept and was something begun in the height of the market, from what I understand. Buyers should never allow that to happen and should just walk away from any building asking for it. Otherwise, it will just become another NYC rip-off. From what I know, no one here paid a $10K creation fee and it is not part of the deal any longer.

A lot of people have now moved in. It's really filling up quickly. More come every week. The developer is making repairs and standing behind his work, which is good. And the garden is no longer dry.

Livinghere thanks you for the heads up. I am happy to hear that the garden is no longer dry. Are all of the common areas completed? The one on the lower lever specifically? We know that the developer had some financial trouble as most did, but that should be worked out by now.

Holmes, the common areas are finished and in very good shape. They re-painted them all and are even painting all the unit doors over again (though they didn't seem to even need it). The lower level terrace is green and has tables, chairs, and umbrellas. The storage room is finished. The lower kitchen/party room area (is being used by the builder for storage/construction equipment until all units are finalized and sold (it's a party room with a kitchenette). The gym has been finished for a long time. The roof deck is very nice.

I do think the builder had some problems, but once the closings began, I think that was resolved. Now after about 22 closings, he should be in good shape, I'd think. He has made good progress on the bigger building at FDC and 115th now too.

Does anyone know is this building has sold enough for FHA approved loans? Thanks.

This building has maybe 4 apartments left.

For Livinghere, on this creation fee that was discontinued, was it struck from the OP or does the buyer have to request for it?

Hi McDull and everyone,

We were never asked to pay a creation fee (I don't know anyone who was). In my contract it was deleted their every asking for it.

I think there are 5 or so apartments left now. But the board is soon forming, so it may be that there are closings about to occur which will bring it to 3 (90% + sold).

Definitely enough have been sold for FHA. But I don't think the builder ever applied for FHA. Not sure. Best to contact realtors on the website.

Creation fee what is that? Creation of what?

Anyone know for sure if the PHB or PHF sales included or excluded the roof deck allotment? They both appear to have closed significantly below asking price.

up

tobuyornot,

PHF did not include the roof deck. PHB did--it actually sold above the asking price.