Jr. 4 - Classic 8 - Explain old-skool apartment types

Junior 4 is a postwar thing, usually refers to large 1-bedroom with windowed dining alcove. Classic 8s are usually LR, DR, kitchen, 3 bedrooms, 2 maid's. 7s - take away 1 maid's, 6-s take away 1 bedroom. There are variations, of course, I have seen classic 7s with 2 maids, and 2 main bedrooms. In some layouts, there is an additional "reception" room, which is sometimes non-windowed that is added to the room count. I have seen 8s with a library and 1 maid's.

There's also something called a classic five, which is a six without the maid's room, but I'm not sure that's really a classic anything.

Another tricky part is the bathrooms. "Classics" after 1920 or so generally have a master bath. Earlier versions might only have a shaving closet off the MBR, or nothing at all. The maid usually got a private place to attend her toilette, as a matter of simple propriety, but her boss routinely didn't until after WWI. Some sixes present a different challenge: two or three bathrooms, but they are all en-suite, so a guest has to pass through a bedroom or the maid's room on the way to the toilet.

"Classic" anything refers to a prewar building (although sometimes a postwar listing will still use the terminology to designate a certain room configuration). The "junior" in Junior 4 means that it's a three-room apt. with the extra dining alcove, as 10023 said. Some people wall it off to make a small bedroom or office. Generally a junior 4 offers more space flexibility than a straight 3 room (1 bedroom) apt., but does not have as much space as a 4-room apt.

Post20s plans generally don't have long winding hallways like the earlier apts. Some of the earlier apts also had smaller living and dining rooms.

Then there's "Edwardian 5": LR, DR, BR, kitchen, maid's room.

Definition of "room" varies depending on who's doing the regulating or recommending: Real Estate Board of NY, NY State Dept. of Housing and Community Renewal, NYC Building Code, etc. "Kitchen" vs. "kitchenette" depends on a combination of square feet and whether there's a window. "Bedroom" has to have a non-lot-line window and a minimum size and/or dimensions.

A half-room, as in 3.5 or 4.5, might be a foyer or dining area, but two half rooms don't make a whole.

Those old ads are consistent with current practice in that bathrooms don't count as rooms.

Apartment Room Count: (REBNY)

1 room Studio with pullman kitchen
1½ rooms Studio with pullman kitchen and alcove or dining area
2 rooms Studio with separate kitchen
2½ rooms Studio with separate kitchen and sleeping alcove
2½ rooms 1 bedroom with Pullman kitchen and living room
3 rooms 1 bedroom, living room, kitchen
3½ rooms 1 bedroom, living room, kitchen, dining area
4 rooms 1 bedroom, living room, kitchen, dining room - or -2 bedrooms, living room, kitchen
4½ rooms 2 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining area
5 rooms 2 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining room
5½ rooms 3 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining area
6 rooms 2 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining room, maid's room
7 rooms 3 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining room, maid's room - or -2 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining room, 2 maid's rooms
8 rooms 3 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, dining room, 2 maid's rooms
9 rooms Typically 3 bedrooms, library, living room, dining room, kitchen, 2 maid's rooms
10 rooms Typically 3 bedrooms, library, living room, dining room, kitchen, 3 maid's rooms
11 rooms Typically 4 bedrooms, library, living room, dining room, kitchen, 3 maid's rooms
12 rooms Typically 4 bedrooms, library, living room, dining room, kitchen, either 4 maid's rooms or servant hall and 3 maid's rooms
13 rooms 4 bedrooms, library, living room, dining room, kitchen, 4 maid's rooms and servant's hall
14 rooms 5 bedrooms, library, living room, dining room, kitchen, 4 maid's rooms and servant's hall

Kitchens are rooms and bathrooms are not. Foyers, depending on how they are configured, are half a room.

"Junior" indicates that a dividing wall that could be up isn't. So a "Junior 4" is a bedroom, living room, kitchen, dining nook -- it could become "4" rooms if the dining nook were walled off.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Thanks all for the explanation! Now that I understand the old system, I like it a lot more than the modern one. It's much more descriptive and useful.

"an article on penthouses I read once said they typically rent for $30-100 per room per month"

Just to be clear, it's an article he read ON penthouses, not an article he read IN Penthouse ("I never thought this would happen to me, but one day my next door neighbor was sunbathing in the nude when I...")

Speaking of nude sunbathing, I have a friend who used to keep binoculars in his office at Paul Weiss. Their offices overlooked a residential building where several young women and a really fat older guy used to sunbathe nude on a terrace.

There must be an internet site for "Manhattan nude sunbathing pictures" somewhere on the internet by now.

This was very helpful. Thanks!

Classic usually means a family apt with a dining room
Classic 5 is a 2 bedroom with dr, 6 3 br w/dr