Forte integrated

What's the status of the TCO?

Re UNFCU. I believe you have to be UN affiliated to join, & the 4.65% rate is only for conforming loans. Jumbo rate is 5.2% and not competitive. The ARM also carries max 2% change per annum with a max cap of 4%. There is also an option to convert to the prevailing rate in the 11th year. Not bad. Seems like a bunch of UN folks at Forte as well as Riverwalk.

By the way, anyone have ideas about increasing kitchen counter space in C line?

Leom also high floor c line units are priced close to or above $600k. Asking prices go up by $5k/floor so there could be more than $100k diference in asking prices with some units. Wonder if they charged more than 624k for the penthouse c unit b/c of the high ceilings.

A few weeks back, I'd mentioned that we were in the process of getting quotes...thought I'd pass along the companies we're using to get our painting, window treatments, and closets done through. We did quite a bit of homework on these things and just want to say upfront that there are probably less expensive options available, but we felt a certain level of comfort with all of these people/companies, combined with quality of product/service.

Painter - Master Painters & Home Improvement - 718.568.4509. We dealt with Marcel, who we felt sounded very passionate about the job he'd do and spent a lot of time pointing out the things he'd do/fix (eg. settling cracks...we decided to let him do it, as opposed to getting the building to do it)

Windows - Getting shades through Janovic, SoHo location. 212.627.1100 and dealt with Devon. I'd mentioned on a previous post that Budgetblinds.com had a deal for the building (details given to us when we went to an openhouse last Spring. Their price was cheaper; with that said - they never got back to me, so crossed them off my list pdq.

Closets - Inner closet "guts" through transFORM - Donna @ 212.584.9580 and outside closet doors through The Sliding Door Company - Aaron and Alan 212.213.9350. These two companies are the ones that advertise in NYMag every week and yes, they are a bit more than what we could have gotten elsewhere, but there was a certain comfort level we felt with dealing with these people that we didn't feel elsewhere. We're replacing the existing closet doors and getting another closet built in that extra lip of space in the 2nd bedroom (we're in C line) and we think it's gonna look great. Given that these two rooms are the first things that people see when they walk into the unit, we felt this is $$ well spent.

One last thing worth noting - if you're planning to get work done - drop by the building or ask your broker to get you "Forte Rules and Regs" binder so you are aware of the procedures you/your contractor has to follow with the building's management company.

We're extremely happy that we've figured all of this out and now can enjoy our xmas vacation : )

Happy holidays to all of you!

from the other forte thread:

leom
11 days ago
My personal ranking of the 1400sf apts that we are both interested in is:
Quality: 1. 18 line in OBBP; 2. 3 bd A line in Forte; 3. 10 line in OBBP
Price: 1. A; 2. 10; 3: 18
Resale value: 1. A; 2. 10; 3: 18
Just my humble opinion for your consideration.

Leom, interested as to why you would rate the quality of the A line in Forte ahead of the 10 line in OBBP. I assume its city view versus Brooklyn view? Also, how to you determine that the resale value of the A-line is better than the 10 line in OBBP especially considering the glut of inventory both sales and rental in Downtown Brooklyn?

As for price, the A line is technically less expensive, but considering the additional amenities at OBBP I feel like the 10 line is a better value. The kitchen and bathroom finishes are also distinctly better at OBBP.

Interested as always in your thoughts. P.S. I believe the you are correct and the 18 line is now sold out.

Gator,
It’s reported on NPR this am that north stretch of BBP has been completed and the City has committed more funding for the rest, though the construction may take at least 4 years. Good for you guys planning to live on the waterfront. :)

- Why you would rate the quality of the A line in Forte ahead of the 10 line in OBBP?
- Print out the floor plans. The difference is obvious.
A: real 3 bd; very efficient layout, semi-open kitchen w. windowed dining area, “active” (foyer, kitchen, dining, living) & “passive” (bedrooms) functions well separated; 3 exposures; dead quiet;
10: 2bd, w. 2nd bd seeming carved out of an oversized master bd, in which there's a deep dark walk-in-closet; 1 single eastern exposure (above BQE); 24 hour noise & pollutants from the expressway; high depth, no cross-ventilation, less natural light.

- Also, how do you determine that the resale value of the A-line is better than the 10 line in OBBP especially considering the glut of inventory both sales and rental in Downtown Brooklyn?
- A line is 15% cheaper than 10 at OBBP, 30% than comparable buildings in downtonw Bkln, which, despite the inventory, aren’t likely to lower their price to Forte level b/c of the restrictions by the lenders. They’d rather throw in FHA financing or convert partly to rental etc. If they don’t slash much the price, then Forte will have to catch up when it comes to resale.

As for price, the A line is technically less expensive, but considering the additional amenities at OBBP I feel like the 10 line is a better value.
- A line has considerably lower cc so you shouldn’t double count the amenities in the value. But OBBP doesn't have much more amenities than Forte in the first place. Compared to the # of units, the gym at OBBP is not necessarily 4 times bigger Forte’s, there are no 4 concierges attending the lobby, its garden doesn't even compare w. Forte’s roof deck (have you checked out the view? Awesome!).

The kitchen and bathroom finishes are also distinctly better at OBBP.
- Granted. But probably worth 20k more in total, which is more than compensated by the 200k discount Forte is offering.

Also, we're maybe too into miscellaneous details (aesthetics, a lap pool, etc) to remember the basic principle in RE: location, location, location!
Forte is on the edge of a preserved historic brownstone district, served by 10+ subway lines within 3 blocks as well as 4 bus stops around the corner, a 5 mn walk to an Olmsteadian park, 2 blocks from Bkln Hospital Center (a Presbyterian affiliate). It’s surrounded by tons of restaurants (both hip & traditional), close but not TOO close to Atlantic Center shopping & transit hub, next to BAM & right adjacent to Harvey Theater where Cate Blanchett is starring.
Can you think of a handful of new condo buildings in any outerborough that beat Forte’s location?

Graduated from Brooklyn Tech in the mid 70's. It would have been unimaginable to have believed that a luxury hi rise would be built here just 30+ years later. This neighborhood was a disaster, Ft Greene Park was a war zone. The only retail establishments were bodegas and bookie joints. A ride on the subway at any other time but rush hour was harrowing. Location, location, location.

Just don't forget that the same holds true for Chelsea, Tribeca, East Village, UWS, the whole City in the 70's.
Isn't there a thread on SE about $1 coop on Park Ave at that time? :)

That $1 co-op on Park may be urban legend. For some perspective on the '60s-'70s market, see http://books.google.com/books?id=X-MCAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA39&dq=%22park%20avenue%22%20cooperative&lr=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=1970&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=1980&as_brr=1&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q=%22park%20avenue%22%20cooperative&f=false

Lots of other NY Mag stories from back then.

NWT - Thx for loading the link. Time has changed but the my workplace still looks exactly the same as in the picture from that time. Obviously that's not my point though. :)

An anecdote:
My colleague bought a $70k (no typo: that is seventy) loft in the 1980's in Tribeca, that she sold for 1 MM in 2003. Even at that time, another colleague who isn't into the downtown scene claimed: someone has to pay ME to live in that desolate industrial park!
But 3 years later, the property was resold for 4 MM...

Come to think of it, last time the $1-coop story came up, 30yrs mentioned some downtown building (55 Liberty, I think) being more or less given away to anyone who could handle the maintenance.

With a co-op, of course, if the apartment's share of the underlying mortgage is $x, then you add that to the price you're nominally paying.

Yes, off-point WRT these new condos.

Leom, given your recent comment about your "workplace looking exactly the same as it did" combined with an earlier post stating that you work in east midtown...I'm pretty sure we work for the same employer : )
If you haven't been moved out of the building and are still here, my husband is meeting me for lunch downstairs in 5 minutes - come down to meet us and say hello, if you can. We usually sit by the windows; I'm in a black suit and he's wearing a tie. If this doesn't work, I'm sure we'll meet at Forte one of these days...

MoMoYa - Unfortunately, we've moved out the 46st. So can't meet up for lunch today. But we should definitely do it sometime later. Cheers! :)

Oops, moved out TO 46th st.

We'll definitely do it in 2010...cheers!

does anyone know what the deal is with cable or satellite dishes? Does the building have a deal with anyone?
Would one have to pay an electrician to hook up the cable to the living room? or bring the phone lines out of the closet? or is this something the cable and phone company would do?

One other question similar to JJ's. Do we really get free internet? Seems to be included in the financial statement but no broker mentioned it.

There is wiring in the walls from the hall closet to every bedroom/living room. You just have to hook it up. No free internet.

As of today, I've heard that they are only 48% sold. The first bunch of buyers needs to start signing and closing to make financing easier for the rest....or at least reject the contracts and free up some of the better priced units. Would love to see this bldg pull itself up by the bootstraps and get to 100%. Could be wishful thinking.

All the units have contracts out except two 3 bedrooms - as they are dealing with such a large number of people they are slow to get the contracts out after accepting the bids. People will be signing next week. There will probably be a huge list of people "in contract" in 2 weeks.
too bad about the free internet ;)

That's exactly my situation. My bid got accepted the week following Thanksgiving but my contract has not been sent out yet. To borrow from my attorey, the sponsor's attorney is being "swamped".

zinka i don't think there is wiring to every bedroom. i know that george is having someone pay to bring in his phone and cable to the areas he wants and install into the walls. please correct me if i am wrong george.

This is interesting. I'd just assumed that these new buildings had conduit going from an outlet on each wall to a central place in the apartment. The occupant would then run TV cable and network cable and phone line to wherever they're wanted. I guess the latter two could be assumed to be wireless, but you'd still need to run TV cable without stapling it to woodwork like in any old dump.

Zinka - why is there money allocated in the common charges for internet then? Is that something they originally planned for and then dropped?

Yes. Dropped effective Jan 1.

And yes, there's wiring going from the central closet to each room. Next time you're in the building go to the entry closet of any apartment and find the latched metal door. That's where it terminates.

does anyone even care that there is no permanent certificate of occupancy?

Hey jj, you are correct on the cable. We have someone bringing the cable from the wall by the hallway to the area between the pillars.
Halina, check previous postings - few of us checked with our lawyers and supposedly not having a permanent certificate of occupancy is not that big of a problem. The sponsor is responsible to get it and will eventually get it done.

What about the expired Temporary Certificate of Occupancy? What if I sign the contract and they cannot renew it?

HH, What did your lawyer tell you? My lawyer and the lawyers of other buyers didn't see this as a big issue but if you are really concerned, you probably should not sign the contract.

my lawyer told me that their last TCO expired and was never renewed since the foreclosure. Since I'm not going with Wells Fargo I won't have a mortgage contingency so issues like the lack of a TCO and occupancy levels would mean I would lose my deposit.

Leom, that is good news about the Park. I am confident that the Park will be completed within 4 years or so, which is a reasonable time period for a project of this size, and the portions that are closest to OBBP much sooner. Brooklyn Bridge Park will be an incredible, world class park that will provide a truly unique setting in which to live at OBBP.

Your comparison of the A line at Forte versus the 10 line demonstrates that one man's trash is another man's treasure (I am not calling Forte trash by the way ). I prefer the 10 line hands down. First, I don’t need a “real” 3 bed. I am buying an apartment that I can grow into in the future. To make the A line useable for me now, I would have to take out the third bedroom to add living space as 12’4” wide living room is too narrow and the awkward configuration of the living and dining rooms takes away from the usable space (the rooms are interrupted by a hallway and angle of the dining room/foyer makes it difficult to configure). The way the active space is separated from the passive space (bedrooms) again creates a fair amount of unusable hallway space. The semi-open kitchen is not my style as it just makes the apt feel smaller. I much prefer a fully integrated “great room” or loft space. In sum, I don’t find the A line’s layout very efficient at all. In contrast, the 10 line has a much larger living space that is all usable space and there is plenty of space for the third bedroom when I need it.
I don’t understand your comment that the 10 line’s second bedroom seems carved out of an oversized master bedroom. The bedroom is well situated and is no more carved out of a space than any of the A line’s bedrooms. As for “the deep dark walk-in closet” most people would kill for the walk-in closet in the 10 line especially compared to the A line’s limited closet space in the master bedroom. The 10 line’s master bedroom is also considerably larger than the A line’s master which is simply too small at only 12’0” x 12’9” (which feels even smaller because of the long hallway entrance). The A line’s master bath is similarly small and lacks a sorely needed second vanity. I also would have liked to have seen a stall shower.

While I do like that the A line has three exposures, I love the one huge exposure that the 10 line has. And while I can’t speak to the noise on the lower floors, on the higher floors it simply isn’t an issue. As for pollution, I can’t imagine that the pollution is any worse than Downtown Brooklyn (you’ve seen the traffic and idling cars, buses etc. on Flatbush, Atlantic Ave etc.) and the pollution from the BQE usually gets blown from West to East.

Finally, the ceiling height in the 10 line gives it a much larger feel and impact in contrast to the low ceiling heights at Forte.

Regarding pricing, the A-line is not anything close to 15% cheaper than the 10 line at OBBP unless the list prices for the A-line on SE are wrong. It’s more like 3-4% (where do you come up with the 200k discount; that can’t be A line versus 10 line because that difference is only 30-40k). And OBBP has many more amenities than Forte. OBBP has a gym and a roof deck (OBBP doesn’t have a roof deck but it will have an entire park and have you seen the views from there?) and that’s it. No children’s play room, children’s art room, yoga or cardio rooms on each floor, billiard/game room, video game room, golf simulator etc. There is also a parking garage in OBBP. These are things I will use and Forte doesn’t have any of them.

Also the A line’s CC are not significantly less than the 10 line at OBBP (only $100/month less despite much fewer amenities/common spaces), rather the taxes are significantly different. While this adds short term value for the A line, over the long term the 10 line has the greater benefit because its exemptions and abatements will be in place much longer. So at the 7 year mark, this will help resale value of the 10 line.

Lastly, regarding location, location, location, Forte’s location is one of the reasons why I simply couldn’t consider Forte now and one of the reasons why I love OBBP. While the neighborhood has changed considerably, the area from most of the subways to Forte is still distinctly marginal at night and I can’t think about my wife walking home from the subway alone at night let alone with a child. The neighborhood may continue to improve (I think it will) but it may not. In any event, I still much prefer OBBP’s location on the waterfront in what will be a world class park and across the street from some of the best brownstone blocks in Brooklyn. Plenty of restaurants and shops are nearby on Atlantic and Montague and more are coming (the storefronts on Columbia Place will soon be full). When I want to go to BAM it is easy to get to; I don’t need to live next door to it or close to Atlantic Center. While I appreciate some of the allure of Forte’s area, I’ll take OBBP’s location any day though I would prefer that it was a little closer to subways (who knows maybe the talked about 4/5 stop will be built some day).

I personally think the 10 line is the better value now and will be the better value in the long term, but if we all liked the same things what a boring world this would be.

HH, my bank (not Wells Fargo) did not care about the TCO or the occupancy level. All they wanted was a decent deposit down, which is fine with us. However, if your mortgage is contingent on the 50+ occupancy level, you should delay giving a deposit until they have the 50%+ of units closed. I understand that they will reach that level by month end but you should wait until it is for sure reached.

George what % are you putting down?

same here george. the building is pre-approved with several banks and is also FHA approved.
Also the building does have a temporary certificate of occupancy and they are finalizing a few last things for the permanent certificate of occupancy. In the offering plan it states clearly that the sponsor is responsible to get it and will eventually get it done as no one can close without it. People are living there already in 36 units dont forget.

george can you let me know about rewiring the cable and phone lines in your apartment to go through the walls?

Hi Gator,
That's a good say "one man's trash is another man's treasure". But when you consider value, you have to jump out of your preconceived idea about one specific property. I'm in no position to offer advice whatsoever. Simply ask yourself a couple of basic questions based on the facts:
1. Why 10 line doesn't attract buyers despite the 200k difference w. 18 line? (918 & 718 got offer within two weeks after OBBP slashed the price by 35% while the broker is still emailing me about 10 line after 3 months!).
2. Why Forte sold 70 out of 72 units in 1 month? Why so many buyers that have been looking long in the area and know each building including OBBP like the back of his hand decided on Forte?
3. Who is considering OBBP "Brooklyn Heights"? My mortgage specialist has lived on Joralemon for 14 years but doesn't even bother to take a look there. He's in the RE industry & it would take him a 2 mn walk!
4. Quote from a managing director of Real Capital Analytics in “Finding a bottom in Brooklyn” (the Real Deal): "They're living in a fantasyland if they think that [OBBP is] going to sell out [in the $600s/sf]”.
5. You don't mind BQE that much, me neither. But 90% people do! There's a psychological barrier much wider than to cross under the expressway. You also can't prevent your guests or future buyers (for resale) from approaching the window and taking a view down. I'd feel extremely embarrassed if only 3 out of 10 got horrified or pretend (forcibly) to say "oh it's not as bad as I’d heard".

Sum-up: All the insiders (brokers, mortgage center, current residents in BH) I spoke to as well as multiple reputable sources agree that OBBP is very risky; common buyers don’t get much excited even by a 35% chop (20 something sold in the first 2 months after price adjustment, lifting the percentage sold to barely 30%, then sluggish sales again; still need to sell 100 more to reach 50% sold); even the discussion on SE is dead (few posts in the last month, the last one being 13 days ago).
I also like OBBP for its solid structure, high ceiling, better finishes, uniqueness and potential if the park gets built. But where are the buyers that can throw out 1.5M for a 2bd w. water view, 1.8-2.2M for a 3bd in Bkln AND on the other side of BQE in THIS economy? What’s the point of talking about deal/value in a 70% empty building while the developer’s loan extension will expire in 15 months? I doubt I can sleep soundly if I bet the biggest investment in my life on such a project. If I had to come back to another building’s forum and check regularly what the others say, I’d rather pass on that deal.

Conclusion: common sense!
But again, I respect everyone’s choice. BTW, “Truth always rests with the minority”. :)

Also, despite your preference for open space, REAL 3 bd does command a premium in NY, where the inventory of family sized apt is extremely low. Maybe that’s why at Forte as well, 3bd A below fl 14 sells at > $500/sf while 2bd A above 14 sells at much less.

(To be honest, I had my above 20th fl at $480 as comp, that's where the 15% comes from. A close look at A line pricing leaves me puzzled: why 8A at $512/sf is 10% more than 17A at $472/sq? Any actual buyers shed light on this?)

Still, except 14A w. high ceiling, current listing 3A 4A 8A at $488-512/sf are all 8-12% lower that 10 line at $560/sf (I’ve heard that’s the bottom line fixed by the lender to OBBP).

The CC + taxes for 3bd A is $500 less that 10 line. That's $6000 a year. By the time you eventually move back to Manhattan (or the suburbs b/c of a grown family), you will have saved 60k solid cash.

Talk about a place “you can grow into in the future”. If there’s one thing I'm sure about, it’s that I’m not looking for a bachelor’s party room for a family. In an open kitchen without cross-ventilation, whenever you grill a steak, the living room will be full of smoke, which you can still smell the next day if the apt is deep like 10 line. If you host a party, your kid will not go to sleep unless there's a quiet tucked away sleeping area. I’m renting a 1750sf downtown Manhattan loft and know exactly how open space feels cool at the moment I open the door after work. But when it comes to real family life the whole evening (wife cooking, kid watching TV, etc), you’ll understand all those functions are preferably separated. You’d also need a study that allows you to concentrate on work, a spare room w. a real bed for the nanny to take a nap or for my guests to sleepover w. privacy rather than crashing on the sofa.

Leom,
Couple basic questions based on the facts? Hmmm…let’s see about that:

1) 18 line attracted more activity for the same reason I almost pulled the trigger on it – the views are some of the best in the entire City. I ultimately decided that the views weren’t worth stretching for (I rather travel and see other views than commit that money to my home every month), but those who bought the 18 line either felt different than I do or it wouldn’t have been as much of a stretch (good for them). As for the 10 line, it most certainly does attract buyers as it is now sold out except for one lower floor unit. That it took a little longer for the 10 line to develop traction is nothing more than happenstance.

2) Assuming the numbers are correct – and that they hold up – that Forte sold 70 of 72 units in one month has no bearing whatsoever on OBBP. You’re not really trying to tout Forte as a success, are you? Forte is essentially a foreclosure that is controlled by its lender whose primary concern is to divest itself of the building and limit its losses ASAP. That Forte sold well at highly discounted prices should surprise no one. In addition, with few exceptions buyers of Forte and buyers of OBBP are very different. Forte doesn’t have any of the higher end units that OBBP does. In fact, most of the inventory at Forte was in the $425-550,000 range. So I have to disagree that many Forte buyers said no to OBBP.

3) I, a resident of Brooklyn Heights for many years, consider OBBP to be Brooklyn Heights as do many others. It is certainly much more Brooklyn Heights than Downtown Brooklyn. What your mortgage specialist thinks means nothing to me. My mortgage specialist considers OBBP to be one of the best properties he has ever seen. So we are even on that front.

4) What do you think that managing director in the Real Deal article would have said about Forte? In the same article, an executive vice president said about Downtown Brooklyn that it “has done worse than just about any other neighborhood, even worse than Williamsburg, for two reasons . . . The bulk of the developers in Downtown Brooklyn have been generally unwilling to cut pricing. And the other reason is, Downtown Brooklyn never really finished gelling as a neighborhood." He should have mentioned a third reason: the overwhelming inventory in the area. Indeed, you are correct about needing to look past a single building when assessing value. You need to look past Forte and at the rest of Downtown Brooklyn when assessing the value of your purchase. The inventory in Downtown Brooklyn is enormous and what happens if and when prices are slashed to get that inventory moving? The fact that Forte sold quickly at hugely discounted prices doesn’t change the fact that there is enormous inventory in the area that will likely suppress prices in the area for a long time to come.

As for OBBP, you misquoted the managing director whose opinion was that OBBP was “in a fantasyland if they think that they’re going to sell out at the prices they are offering” which was identified in the preceding sentence as $654 per sq. ft, not “in the $600s/sf” you said. And I can say that OBBP has is definitely more price competitive that $654 sq. ft. on many units now. The same managing director also said that OBBP “is a beautiful building in a beautiful location.” The Real Deal also described OBBP as “among the most promising new developments in Brooklyn.” The building hasn’t changed only the economy has. And unlike other buildings, OBBP hasn’t ignored the economically realities and has aggressively re-priced many units. All of this bodes well for its value in the future.

5) Regarding the BQE debate, we’ve been there and done that. I won’t attempt to speak for 90% of the market and I think you should refrain from doing so as well. I don’t care what people think of my home as long as I love it. That being said, I’ve already taken several people to see the building and they all loved it and immediately overcame any initial trepidation they had about the proximity of the BQE. Like I’ve said I’ll take the proximity of the BQE over any location in Downtown Brooklyn and I know many people who ardently agree with me (when I mentioned buildings in Downtown Brooklyn to the people I’ve taken to see OBBP their response was “why would you want to live there?”; so if you think that there is only a stigma attached to the BQE think again). You choice is yours and I hope it is nothing but good for you.

Sum-up: You appear to be letting your experience with Forte cloud your vision. Let’s not forget that it is essentially a foreclosure, a bank controlled property. The same insiders (brokers, mortgage center, current residents in BH) would have called Forte a huge risk (particularly the current residents of BH) but you choose to buy there. Yet you consider OBBP very risky; I find it impossible to reconcile those opinions.

I for one will say good for you on your purchase. The insiders know nothing as often as they know something (did these insiders call the real estate crash? So why should I trust them any more now). So what the quoted managing director or mortgage specialist said doesn’t mean too much to me especially considering the other opinions that I have heard and what has transpired since the Oct 1 Real Deal article you’ve quoted.

And you are wrong that the common buyer didn’t get excited by a 35% price chop at OBBP – they most certainly did and the sales velocity has borne this out. At the same time that Forte was selling 70 of 72 units at huge discounts, OBBP sold 30 units at significantly higher prices per sq. ft. I don’t know where you get that sales are sluggish again as everyone I have spoken to (insiders, mortgage providers, etc.) confirm that sales continue to be strong. I can personally confirm that traffic in the sales office continues to be very good. OBBP is rapidly approaching 40% sold and Wells Fargo was just added as a preferred lender which will further improve the marketability of the building.

People need places to live and the buyers and money are still out there. People are just making more studied decisions and driving harder bargains. There are buyers for the higher end units at OBBP and, for instance, I just heard that two of the more expensive units just went into contract. That being said, the prices you quoted are not accurate. 2bd/2bath with water view is in the $1.1 to 1.3M range (not $1.5M) and you are similarly off on the 3 bed units but I don’t have the exact pricing on those (though I know a gorgeous 4 bed unit is listed at $2.3M).

Lastly, the pace of discussion of a building on SE is no measure of interest in a building. If it is a measure of anything (and I highly doubt it is), it is a measure of distress at a building. And don’t forget that this discussion started out on the OBBP page and carried over to the Forte page after your decision to purchase there. I do not need to come to another building’s forum to check what the others say. I check out this thread because I read most threads on SE (it’s like a car crash, hard to look away) and I was enjoying the productive dialogue you and I were having on this subject.

I will leave you with one last thought. Common sense: Expected of most, and possessed by very few. :-) (not a dig at you).

Leom, you are absolutely right that a real 3 bed commands a premium to a 2 bed in the NY market. And that’s why when deciding upon the 10 line it was very important to me that it could be configured as a real 3 bed which it can be. When I need it, I will build the third bedroom for far less than the premium I would be charged to get a “real 3 bed” now.

And I’m not looking for bachelor’s party room. But my wife already hates that see feels so separated from me and the rest of the apartment when she is in the kitchen in our current apartment. And especially with children we prefer an open layout in which we can observe what is going on in most areas of the apartment. And I never work in a private study at home (I have one now); if I’m going to do that I might as well stay at the office.

Again different strokes for different folks; my wife and I much prefer an integrated environment with our master bedroom providing our privacy and escape (as I mentioned previously the master bed in the A-line is too small). Also, do you really think the A line is any different from the 10 line when it comes to cooking in the apartment? By the way, I tested the 10 line’s Bosch vent hood and that sucker really works.

As to the pricing, I would not expect that OBBP would be priced the same as Forte. First, as discussed previously, Forte is a foreclosure and that always results in a discount to the market. Second, the finishes are superior at OBBP and there are many more common areas. Third, I know we disagree but I think OBBP’s location does and will command a higher price.

Regarding CC + taxes, it is less than a $500/month difference. #14A has CCs of $1,194 and taxes of $65. The 10 line at OBBP has CCs of $1325 and taxes of $370. That’s a difference of $436. More importantly, your year 10 calculation doesn’t account for the OBBP’s longer exemption (15 years) and abatement (20 years) which will reduce those differences in later years and increase OBBP’s value because OBBP’s taxes will continue to be reduced for a longer period than Forte’s taxes. I will certainly concede that this is not an insignificant amount on a year over year basis. It is one that I am very willing to pay to live at OBBP though.

Gator,
I wish you good luck at OBBP, as always. I spent much time typing only b/c you said you were interested in my thoughts. This discussion is absolutely of no interest to me or anyone else on this board, b/c we're all under contract or got bid accepted already. We're not hesitating btwn Forte & OBBP or any other building. It's you who admitted having a second look at Forte b/c of the new price. I offered my humble opinion b/c I was wondering if you were still doing comparative buying.
Sorry, we at Forte are glad to have seized the rare opportunity of a foreclosure. We have moved on w. decorating the apts already. I was already feeling guilty w. posting long discurssions irrelevant to most buyers here, which end up in their email update almost as spam. I don't read other threads on SE anymore and, believe it or not, I care much less about macro economic data or Dow Jones movement after our family decided on Forte. Total peace of mind.
I take back all my comments about OBBP. If I want to talk it down, I'd do it on the OBBP thread. I admitted long ago that Forte is not a top product. Not only OBBP, but Toren is better looking, Oro has amazing bridge & Manhattan view, 1 Hanson is a solid historical building. Notwithstanding, Forte has the best value, price/quality ratio and the least uncertainties at the time being.
This thread shouldn't have turned into a two member panel discussing your 10 line in another building in the first place. I apologize to you as well as to the fellow Forte buyers that are fed up with our discussions. No more(though I disagree w. many of your points in the previous post but will not argue about any).

leom, this will be my final post on the subject as well. I was interested in your thoughts and appreciate the time you took to give them. If I offended you in any of my responses, I apologize as that is not what I intended. The difficulty of a message board is that the nuances of a discussion are so easily lost.

And by no means did I mean to imply that you or anyone else on this thread were or should be hesitating about their purchase at Forte. Alas I am also not hesitating about my purchase in the 10 line at OBBP. The same as you I am preparing for the move. While I did take a second look at Forte b/c of the new pricing, it was a fleeting one and only served to confirm that OBBP was the right decision for us.

I too believe that ultimately that Forte buyers will have seized upon an excellent opportunity. Even if property values do not increase substantially for a variety of reasons, I think the the cost/benefit will certainly work in your favor in years to come. As I've said many times, best of luck with your purchase.

My wife has said to me more than once that I don't know when to let a discussion end. So I'm sorry if my penchant for discourse has gotten the better of me. Again, I appreciate all of your comments even those I disagree with!

As a final comment, I think we each made the best decision for ourselves. Best of luck to you and all Forte purchasers.

Group hug!

Any ideas why some of the higher floors on the D line are still available? Including the penthouse D30.
And why is the price per square foot higher for the D line compared to the A line?

anyone pay above $550psf?

More details on current asking prices:
A line 3 BR range from $488/sf (3A) to $530/sf (14A)
A line 2 BR range from $464/sf (15A) to $516/sf (29A)
B line studio range from $475/sf (12B) to $489/sf (14B)
B line 1BR range from $449/sf (19B) to $505/sf (PHB)
C line range from $419/sf (3C) to $520/sf (PHC)
D line range from $420/sf (3D) to $559/sf (PHD)

The pricing is internally inconsistent in many ways.

Zinka formula for pricing seems to be: base price for line + $5K premium for each floor above. Since the premium remains the same despite the size of the unit, smaller units will have a higher price per sf on the highest floors. The lowest floors and other unique apartments seem to be an exception. Example: 27c=$609k, 28c=$614k 29c=$619k, PHC=$624k. PHC for $520 C is a steal, I think George is the lucky one.

Bkguy according to last from brokers no units were available except for a handful of 3 bedroom A.

rooster - That can't explain many inconsistency, ie:
1. high fl A sells even cheaper per sft than those below 14;
2. I've heard PH at Forte does not just sound fancier, but indeed has high ceiling, which is not reflected in a mere 5k difference w. fl 29.
3. If the premium remains the same despite the size of the unit, why B is much cheaper per sf than D?

Just out of curiosity. After all, except some high fl D, there's no significant gap in pricing btwn the lines & fl, which, however, makes the PH a real steal. Congrats to George & the recently in contract PHB! :)

HH11231 - Just read the contract w. my lawyer. You can refer to #2 in the rider for mortgage contingency. If you get preapproved by Wells Fargo (Scott Sullivan), you can apply to ANY institutional mortgage lender..., to satisfy this mortgage contingency, do so within 10 days after [the preapproval].
Hope this can help.

The high ceiling floors are not accounted for by the current pricing.

I just heard from the broker that there are about 20 signed contracts and 40 more contracts out for review. This means they are about 55% sold (counting signed contracts and already closed apartments).

That resonated to why I heard from my broker (22 contracts signed). I asked about PHD. In contract already. It's actually my broker's client.
Merry X'mas to All!

Any advice for the punchlist? I am hoping to do my final walk through within the next week and was wondering if any particular issues had come up. Also, did anyone bring an inspector with them? Thanks!

hi tim - yes i went through with an inspector. no particular issues - mainly just cosmetic - missing vanity door in one bathroom - missing closet door in bedroom. Inspector did not like that there was no drain in the washer/dryer closet and says usually there is in case of a leak. I will consider installing one myself. He also found an electrical outlet which had not been insulated and had cold wind coming through which they need to fix.
The only other thing I would look for is the joints on the windows - if you see paint cracked and peeled over the joints it is because the wood was not pinned down enough so they will need to repaint, sand and refinish.
He also suggested I install fans in the bathroom vents since the suction was not very strong.
Generally though the inspector thought it looked good. Good luck!!!

George - I would like to contact your closet person - I know you posted the contact before but it seems t have gotten lost. Also who is doing the wiring in your place? The wiring in the hall closet needs to be put in the walls and extend to living room and bedrooms as currently it does not.

Oh yes and a belated Merry Christmas Leom and everyone else. Hope you all have a beautiful New Years!

Thanks JJ!

jj1918 would you be willing to share details of your inspector? Name/contact/cost?

Of course. His name is Sergey and here is his email: service@advpropertyinspections.com
Its $250. If you want him to check for moisture in the walls with an infrared camera that is another $100.

I went through with an architect. No substantial issues neither. His recommendations for decoration are:
1. If you wanna build a cooking island, the pipes could go from the ceiling (I'm only planning a preparation area not involving any sink or electrical work though). The range hood is not strong and internal air refiltration only. Could be hooked to the outgoing vent pipe for more eficient use;
2. The cracking btwn wallls & ceiling is rather common. He doesn't even call it a "new building settling" problem. He suggested crown molding, which I'm not sure about b/c it seems old fashioned in a glass curtain wall building. Would consider it if there're minimalist modern pattern though;
3. The walls need painting anyway, so minor crackings don't really bother;
4. He suggested two more layers for the fl: one "sealer", one "finish";
5. Blinds in the south facing rooms have to be reflective on the outside: we arrived at 3:30pm in later december, but the sun light was still glaring!
6. Track lighting is more realistic in the units w. regular ceilings than chandelier.
That said, I don't think it's necessary to do everything he suggested, ie. he preached "repainting the floor every six months", an idea I totally freaked out at. :)

thanks leom! i agree the range hood is not strong and was trying to figure out another way to vent.
do you think it would be wise to reseal and refinish the floor? is that necessary?

Oh I forgot to give Sergey's number: 917.459.8827

JJ, there is already wiring to the living room and bedrooms. You will be throwing money away if you run more wiring. Next time you're in the apartment, open up the thing that looks like an electrical outlet but has no outlets. That's where the wiring goes.

Thanks Zinka. I keep asking because it was made really clear in my contract that there is no wiring from the hall closet to the bedrooms and that I would have to agree to installing it myself.....strange....? Not sure what to make of it. A mistake in the contract perhaps? Or perhaps my aprticular unit is deficient?
When I was in the unit I did open the hall closet and saw a bunch of wires spilling out of the wall onto the floor - I presumed those are the ones I would have to connect.

In my contract, it also specifies there's no wiring (or outlet?) for the phone in the badroom or something...
I'm under the impression that my architect tends to overdo it. But the finish of the floor does seem pale & thin to me. Might do the sealer & finish thing once and for all b/c I don't want to repaint after moving in.

yes exactly leom - mine says the same thing.
i actually thought that was the reaason george was having wiring done too but maybe i am wrong.

i hear you about the floor. i ike the paleness of it but i might seal it too. who wants to deal with that later

One of future Forte residents, and I received offering plan today. the more reading through it, the more being curious about common charges. As all we know, Forte has higher common charge, and it all says 'first year'. I am sure when I move in, I will be well into second years, which leads us common charge increases by at least $20-30 per month. More interestingly, there are 'sponsor's expert estimates', which is more than $450 per month. Advertised common charges for my unit is about $900. If my understanding is correct, it will be $1350. Is here anyone to raise question about common charge increase? I saw statement saying 'sponsor will return deposit when it is 25% increase', but it shouldn't be business practice. I will ask my lawyer tomorrow. Just curious.

All that happened was that the original offering plan said there would be phone wiring to the BATHrooms, and a later amendment said there wasn't actually. That's it. I promise. THERE IS WIRING TO THE LIVING ROOMS AND BEDROOMS. Let's put this to rest already.

joah, huh? The common charges as stated by the realtor are the actual charges. That's it. Expert estimates are totally irrelevant once the building is already in operation and the budget is known -- which it is now.

zinka, Thank you for quick response and well understood now. I am a first time buyer and not familiar with it. you made my day easy. Thank you again!! good night.

Has anyone determined whether it's possible to stain the floors a darker color? What do you mean by "paint?"

The floors are made of manufactured wood, which can be sanded down and refinished, but only twice before they need to be replaced. It may be that they can be stained during one of those two refinishings; I'm not sure.

In addition to the prefered lender and the few that were mentioned in the discussion before, anyone has succeeded in getting favorable loans from other private or institutional lenders?
The rates in all the categories have shot up in the last two weeks. 30 years fixed first tickled up from 5 to 5.04, 5.08, 5.11 then jumped to 5.28 on X'mas eve. Today it's 5.37%! Seems like I have to rush the application.

Thanks Zinka regarding the wiring. I too am a first time buyer.

Does anyone have the dimensions of what is the largest size furniture we can get into the freight elevator?
For example can it fit a king size mattress?

Hi there - just joining this board as I recently went into contract at Forte as well. Nice to meet you all, future neighbors! I was thinking about hiring Sergey for my inspection as well. JJ and others - would anyone be interested in trying to negotiate a group rate with Sergey if we can get a number of us to commit to hiring him for inspections? Please post if you are interested in hiring Sergey and I'll contact him to see if he'd be willing to extend a group discount.

leom, thought you were going for the UNFCU deal.

ccforte, sure- count me in. I noticed in one unit water damage, electrical issues, sloppy workmanship, and am sure that there is more that my untrained eye didn't notice. I would feel more comfortable having a pro take a look before/after.

jj1918: mattresses can be bent, rolled, etc.. they got those queen size mattresses up into the show units somehow. ;-)

ccforte - Count me in as well, if the price is right.
Zinka: Thx for your clarification on so many things. I had thought you were a broker b/c you seem to know the building as the back of your hand. You should definitely serve on the future residents' board. :)
Rooster: I'm very likely to go for UNFCU but there's a downside: no fixed rates on Forte b/c it's still less than 60% sold & owner occupied. That mark would be hit soon but I'm afraid the rate will be even higher in 1 or 2 weeks. Would like to know if other fellow buyers have already got good deals w. other banks.

ccforte// Please count me in too.

ccforte - I'm in, I just signed the contract as well

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. So far we have 5 people interested in hiring Sergey:

Universalrooster
Leom
jonahjonah
august39
myself

I sent Sergey an e-mail and will advise once I hear back. In the meantime - anyone else who's potentially interested in hiring Sergey and trying to get a group rate, please advise.

In addition to hiring Sergey, I am also looking into:
1. blinds
2. window treatments (film to apply to windows - e.g. solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/WF/3MWindowFilms/Solutions/Residential/)
3. floor sealing / finishing (LEOM - if you have any leads for this, it would be most appreciated if you could please share)

As I suspect others will also be interested in these, please also advise if you're interested in any or all of these solutions as I'd be happy to try to secure a group discount if a number of us decide to go with the same vendor. Thanks!

Thx for coordinating the inspection, ccforte.
George & Momoya got some quotes for blinds/curtains. Pls click on the link to the "Forte rebooted" discussion on top of this thread for details & pricing.
Any news on the manager's unit? My lawyer said the repricing should just be logic b/c that's the new price they filed in the recent amendment.
* * *
Wow, 24 listings in contract now. Have a great new year, everyone!

heehee maybe I should get commission for Sergey! ;)
I wont be using him as i already did my inspection. Give him my best.

I would be interested in group rates on the floors though so keep me posted.

Closets as well. Anyone?

thanks for the tip about mattresses universal.

As for banks i am getting good rates from mortgage lenders. The building is also FHA approved so you can apply for other programs as well with lower mortgage rates.

Leom I have been in contract for 2 weeks now and its not even listed yet so imagine how many more there are!

JJ - thanks for letting us know about Sergey. Could you please confirm that he was charging $250 for the regular inspection and $350 including the infrared camera? The best he is offering for a group is $400 for the regular inspection with the infrared camera.

As for closets - I would be interested in group rates. Please keep me posted.

GEORGE AND MOMOYA - if you can get group rates on blinds / curtains, I'd be interested in working together with you. Please advise. Thanks!

Hi cc - I just pulled out the paperwork. It was $100 for the infrared camera. It was $250 for the inspection. For some reason he had to add in $30 - don't remember why so the total was $380
$400 does not sound like a good offer unless that is the price of a 3-bedroom....Anyway for a group it should be less then what I paid.

Yes I am down with the closets too.Please let me know. I think George had a good contact on that one.

Also if anyone wants fans in their bathroom vents I am looking into that as well.

i signed a contract for one of the units as well. which other banks are allowing loans in the building?

Happy New Year everyone.

Our closing day is near and we are looking forward to calling Forte home. It is great to see how many units are now under contract but I agree, it seems that there many more units under contract but have not been reflected on Streeteasy. We are almost closing on our unit but still doesn't show that on streeteasy.

Just to answer few questions from earlier posts.
With regards to shades, we are using Janovic at 212.627.1100 and dealing with Devon. We really didn't go after the best deal; we just wanted to have it all done right and with good quality shades. I believe the cost is around 6k.
With regards to closets, we are using TransForm for closet space planning - Donna @ 212.584.9580 and the Sliding Door Company for additional closet in the guest bedroom and for new closet doors in both bedrooms - Aaron and Alan 212.213.9350. Both companies are closely associated and seem to work well together. Working and planning the closets with them, we are more than doubling the closet space that we currently have.
Regarding the wiring. The only thing we are doing is basically extending the cable wiring to the area between the two posts (in the C line).
I am not sure about the floors. There has been talk about ceiling and finishing the floors. I didn't think this was needed but it would be great if anyone with good knowledge of this subject can provide her/his opinion.

From my experience with wood floors especially prefinished floors which seems to be the case at Forte it is best if you screen and seal the floors before moving in, this ensures a longer life for the wood!

Thanks Fayek. Do you recommend anyone that can do this work?

ccforte: That's odd for Sergey to quote $400 as his website at http://www.advpropertyinspections.com/ lists a base rate of $220 + $125 for infrared camera.

Anyone for a googlegroup where more detailed information can be exchanged?

I would recommend Fried Floors 718-855-6535. They are Top of the Line!

Also used Jose 718-302-5673

Thanks Fayek. I appreciate it.

Thanks George! Really appreciate it. Can you give me a general sense of a ball point figure for doing the closets without the additional closet or new doors?

Thanks Fayek regarding the floors. If people want to pipe in regarding wether or not you think this is necessary I am all ears.

Universal good on checking the website but it is odd as I was quoted $100 and not $125 for infrared. Perhaps doing a group thing with him is not a good idea for everyone.

JJ,
For the insides only for 2 closets in the master and 1 closet in the guest bedroom, it should be around $2500. But again it depends on what you want - drawers tend to push prices higher. Give Donna a call. She's very helpful and seems to know her stuff well.

We will take Fayek's recommendation on the floors. I would rather spend a little $ and seal the floors now rather than regret not doing that later.

I'll pass on the inspection. Normally an inspection on old building/houses is useful but for a new condo, I don't really think there is a need. Hope we don't regret this decision later :)

I was thinking of skipping the inspection, but when I went to take a 2nd look at unit I noticed several areas of water damage near the windows and other locations, possibly from faulty window installations. One looks like it may even originate from unit above.

universal - i mentioned in some earlier posts for people to look out for what looks like water damage on the window sills. I too thought it was water damage which is why i insisted on doing an infrared for moisture. It turned out to simply be that the wood was not pinned down correctly and was splitting open at the joints causing the paint to chip and crack. I do think it is a good idea to bring in the inspector just for peace of mind as it really does look like water damage.

thanks george i checked out the website and am going to have them come give me an estimate. they look like they do a great job!

Just created http://groups.google.com/group/230Ashland/ for those interested in exchanging information outside of SE forum on purchasing, renovating, and living at the Forte.

does anyone know the public school zoning for this building? I've heard Fort Greene public schools are pretty bad but would be interested to hear from anyone with first hand knowledge.

Fayek and George - have you guys received any estimates for sealing the floors? I would also be intersted so please let me know if we can buy togther to get a group rate.

JJ- thanks for the clarification on Sergey. I pointed out his website pricing, per Universalrooster's suggestions, but unfortunately he's not willing to budge from $400 - even for groups.

GEORGE - please let me know if you are able to get any group discounts on the closets - I'd also be willing to work with you on this if we can get a group rate. In addition, if Janovic can give you a discount for the shades if you bring multiple buyers, please also let me know. Thanks!

i was wondering about bug nets. is it possible to get those for the forte windows?

George - thanks for the closet reference. I have a meeting them soon! cc do you want me to ask about group rates during my meeting? anyone else?

Also cc, fayek and george I am also interested in the floors so please keep me informed.

sorry about the sergey pricing. it is so strange!

lastly does anyone know if there is a rooftop fan? (toilet exhaust fans) Has anyone been on the roof and checked? Does anyone else notice that the vents in their bathroom do not suck up air? SO am wondering if perhaps they didn't install the fans...