Manhattan Apartment Prices Fall as New York Loses Finance Jobs (BN)
Started by KISS
about 16 years ago
Posts: 303
Member since: Mar 2008
Discussion about
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aYIiwNL0qnEY Jan. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Manhattan apartment prices fell for a third consecutive quarter as Wall Street job losses drained demand and the decline in co-op and condominium values reached 21 percent since the market peak. The median price slid 10 percent to $810,000 in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, down from almost $1.03... [more]
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aYIiwNL0qnEY
Jan. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Manhattan apartment prices fell for a third consecutive quarter as Wall Street job losses drained demand and the decline in co-op and condominium values reached 21 percent since the market peak.
The median price slid 10 percent to $810,000 in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, down from almost $1.03 million in 2008, New York appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. and broker Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate said today. The number of sales jumped 8.4 percent to 2,473 as lower prices pushed transactions above the 10-year quarterly average.
Values continued to fall across apartments of all sizes as New York City recorded 10 percent unemployment in November. Fallout from the recession and credit crisis that cost more than 184,000 finance jobs in the Americas is still hurting New York. The city lost 25,200 finance jobs in the 12 months ending Nov. 30, the state Labor Department said Dec. 17.
“We have some big macro issues ahead of us,” said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel. “My view is: We’re not done.”
Five Manhattan property reports issued today showed overall price declines. The Corcoran Group, a New York-based broker that conducts its survey with the research company PropertyShark.com, said the median apartment price dropped 15 percent from a year earlier. Brown Harris Stevens and Halstead Property LLC put the decline at 11 percent and StreetEasy.com said the drop was 10 percent.
The number of apartments for sale dropped 25 percent from the previous year to 6,851, according to Miller Samuel and Prudential. The 10-year average of quarterly inventory for sale is 7,094 units.
‘An Anomaly’
Miller called the decline in inventory “an anomaly” brought on by a wave of buyer interest built up during the first half of 2009. More than 6,000 apartments in new developments have yet to be listed for sale, he said.
The biggest price reduction in the three months ended Dec. 31 was for a 43rd-floor, two-bedroom condominium in the Financial District’s William Beaver House, according to StreetEasy. The price was cut to $1.66 million from $3.05 million and the unit sold 10 days later for $1.53 million, according to StreetEasy.
A smaller proportion of Manhattan apartment sellers discounted their listings in the fourth quarter. About 27 percent of properties for sale carried price cuts, compared with 33 percent a year ago, according to StreetEasy. Condo sellers cut an average of 7.8 percent off their asking prices, while co- op sellers whittled an average of 7 percent from prices in the three months ending Dec. 31.
Hitting Bottom?
“If we have not hit a bottom, we have definitely hit a level of resistance here,” said Bill Staniford, chief executive officer of PropertyShark.com. “This is an area where buyers and sellers met and agreed there is value at this level.”
Studio apartments prices fell 11 percent from a year earlier to a median of $375,000, Miller Samuel and Prudential said. One-bedrooms dropped 7.6 percent to $661,000; two-bedrooms fell 23 percent to $1.24 million and three-bedrooms plunged 42 percent to $2.35 million.
Apartments with four or more bedrooms fell 38 percent to a median price of $5.4 million.
Three of the five most expensive closings of 2009 happened in the fourth quarter, according to StreetEasy. The priciest was a 12th-floor unit at 820 Fifth Ave. bought by Ken Griffin, founder of Citadel Investment Group, for $40 million. He bought from philanthropist Lily Safra and closed the deal last month.
South of 34th Street, sales at the Superior Ink Condominiums and Townhouses helped boost the average price for apartments with at least three-bedrooms by 39 percent to $4.67 million, according to Halstead and Brown Harris, both owned by Terra Holdings LLC.
“A lot of those units were bought some time ago,” reflecting prices at the peak of the market, said Gregory Heym, chief economist for Terra Holdings.
The market reports issued today are compiled from public records and brokers’ proprietary data.
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Response by Riversider
about 16 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
“We have some big macro issues ahead of us,” said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel. “My view is: We’re not done
--Good quote for his new venture.
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Response by hejiranyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 255
Member since: Jan 2009
Seems like Bloomberg is the only media outlet to spin this data as bad news for the Manhattan real estate market. Everyone else (including the Times) would lead us to believe that everything was coming up roses.
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Response by Riversider
about 16 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
with BMO Capital Markets. "Gulp," she added.
"It will be at least early spring before we see notable
gains in sales activity as homebuyers respond to the recently
extended and expanded tax credit," Lawrence Yun, the Realtors'
chief economist, said in a statement.
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Response by stevejhx
about 16 years ago
Posts: 12656
Member since: Feb 2008
"The median price slid 10 percent to $810,000 in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, down from almost $1.03 million in 2008"
Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%.
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Response by inonada
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008
"Seems like Bloomberg is the only media outlet to spin this data as bad news for the Manhattan real estate market. Everyone else (including the Times) would lead us to believe that everything was coming up roses."
I would think that spin is making a double-digit drop in something that "hadn't ever dropped year-over-year since the beginning of time" sound positive. In any case, I think that unlike the Times, Bloomberg does not derive money from RE ads.
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Response by truthskr10
about 16 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
"Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%"
Maybe they meant 1.03 mil was the median for the whole year of 2008? And 4th quarter '08 was 900K for the 10% slide?
All in all, it seems like there are a lot of crosscurrents in the report. Hard for me to get a clear sense as to what's happening with current prices. (Year-over-year data can mask a lot of what is now happening.) The data section of the website still hasn't been updated with Q4 data.
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Response by notadmin
about 16 years ago
Posts: 3835
Member since: Jul 2008
topper, which crosscurrents?
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Response by marco_m
about 16 years ago
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bulls?
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Response by Riversider
about 16 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
Sounds to me like this decline in prices is pretty much within expectations. They have to write something.
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Response by sidelinesitter
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1596
Member since: Mar 2009
""The median price slid 10 percent to $810,000 in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, down from almost $1.03 million in 2008"
Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%."
God only knows where they got $1.08mm. The actual report says $810k in 4Q, down 10% from $900k in the prior year quarter.
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Response by Topper
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1335
Member since: May 2008
admin:
Price per square foot was up 18.1% from the prior quarter.
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Response by Riversider
about 16 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
It does not say the 1.03 million was the fourth quarter 2008 stat,
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Response by marco_m
about 16 years ago
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jimhones??
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Response by jimhones09
about 16 years ago
Posts: 195
Member since: Aug 2009
what marco? i see people questioning this reposrts accuracy as well.
i know that people are buying and selling BECAUSE I WORK IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS
i don't just skulk about on boards like this masturbating and snickering like you marco
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Response by columbiacounty
about 16 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
are you foaming at the mouth?
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
21% off the peak.
We're officially a crash now... and I still don't think we've gotten one bull to admit they were wrong...
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
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"i know that people are buying and selling BECAUSE I WORK IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS"
Wow, the guy works in the industry, and this is the extent of the his understanding of the current market.
WOW.
People buy and people sell. Thats deep.
No wonder this guy lost his shirt.
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Response by apt23
about 16 years ago
Posts: 2041
Member since: Jul 2009
Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%."
No wonder everyone is confused about the market. If the math is correct the sentence structure is abysmal. It is actually misleading. The reporter should be fired. Or is it a case of having fired all the older, wiser, more expensive journalists that could have caught this error.
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Response by bob420
about 16 years ago
Posts: 581
Member since: Apr 2009
This part is interesting:
Studio apartments prices fell 11 percent from a year earlier to a median of $375,000, Miller Samuel and Prudential said. One-bedrooms dropped 7.6 percent to $661,000; two-bedrooms fell 23 percent to $1.24 million and three-bedrooms plunged 42 percent to $2.35 million.
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Response by muhsin
about 16 years ago
Posts: 11
Member since: Jan 2009
This site should be RE broker free. All they do is trying to let us belive down side is finished, its time to buy. They do not give a shit if someone loses value of their home after they sell it to them.
RE broker free blogs please....
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Response by malthus
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1333
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Some of the best posters here are brokers. You are generalizing.
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Response by Topper
about 16 years ago
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Agree. Some of the best posters are, indeed, brokers. (There are, of course, a few self-serving ones as well.)
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
> Some of the best posters here are brokers.
Yes, some of the most (unintentionally) funny stuff of recent years has come from them. Agent Rachel. This jimmyjohn guy.... tons of comic relief.
“We have some big macro issues ahead of us,” said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel. “My view is: We’re not done
--Good quote for his new venture.
Seems like Bloomberg is the only media outlet to spin this data as bad news for the Manhattan real estate market. Everyone else (including the Times) would lead us to believe that everything was coming up roses.
with BMO Capital Markets. "Gulp," she added.
"It will be at least early spring before we see notable
gains in sales activity as homebuyers respond to the recently
extended and expanded tax credit," Lawrence Yun, the Realtors'
chief economist, said in a statement.
"The median price slid 10 percent to $810,000 in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, down from almost $1.03 million in 2008"
Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%.
"Seems like Bloomberg is the only media outlet to spin this data as bad news for the Manhattan real estate market. Everyone else (including the Times) would lead us to believe that everything was coming up roses."
I would think that spin is making a double-digit drop in something that "hadn't ever dropped year-over-year since the beginning of time" sound positive. In any case, I think that unlike the Times, Bloomberg does not derive money from RE ads.
"Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%"
Maybe they meant 1.03 mil was the median for the whole year of 2008? And 4th quarter '08 was 900K for the 10% slide?
My best guess if the 10% part of it is accurate.
In any case, another brilliant writer.
Here's the Miller Samuel press release.
http://www.millersamuel.com/press/view.php?V=1262715812gQhnI
All in all, it seems like there are a lot of crosscurrents in the report. Hard for me to get a clear sense as to what's happening with current prices. (Year-over-year data can mask a lot of what is now happening.) The data section of the website still hasn't been updated with Q4 data.
topper, which crosscurrents?
bulls?
Sounds to me like this decline in prices is pretty much within expectations. They have to write something.
""The median price slid 10 percent to $810,000 in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, down from almost $1.03 million in 2008"
Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%."
God only knows where they got $1.08mm. The actual report says $810k in 4Q, down 10% from $900k in the prior year quarter.
admin:
Price per square foot was up 18.1% from the prior quarter.
It does not say the 1.03 million was the fourth quarter 2008 stat,
jimhones??
what marco? i see people questioning this reposrts accuracy as well.
i know that people are buying and selling BECAUSE I WORK IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS
i don't just skulk about on boards like this masturbating and snickering like you marco
are you foaming at the mouth?
21% off the peak.
We're officially a crash now... and I still don't think we've gotten one bull to admit they were wrong...
"i know that people are buying and selling BECAUSE I WORK IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS"
Wow, the guy works in the industry, and this is the extent of the his understanding of the current market.
WOW.
People buy and people sell. Thats deep.
No wonder this guy lost his shirt.
Can somebody please tell me how they get 10% based on these numbers? I get 21%."
No wonder everyone is confused about the market. If the math is correct the sentence structure is abysmal. It is actually misleading. The reporter should be fired. Or is it a case of having fired all the older, wiser, more expensive journalists that could have caught this error.
This part is interesting:
Studio apartments prices fell 11 percent from a year earlier to a median of $375,000, Miller Samuel and Prudential said. One-bedrooms dropped 7.6 percent to $661,000; two-bedrooms fell 23 percent to $1.24 million and three-bedrooms plunged 42 percent to $2.35 million.
This site should be RE broker free. All they do is trying to let us belive down side is finished, its time to buy. They do not give a shit if someone loses value of their home after they sell it to them.
RE broker free blogs please....
Some of the best posters here are brokers. You are generalizing.
Agree. Some of the best posters are, indeed, brokers. (There are, of course, a few self-serving ones as well.)
> Some of the best posters here are brokers.
Yes, some of the most (unintentionally) funny stuff of recent years has come from them. Agent Rachel. This jimmyjohn guy.... tons of comic relief.