Excellent Newsweek Article

Can't turn back the clock. Being a port city is gone forever, and Manhattan will not be a middle class borough. Best to focus on high tech and e-commerce, businesses that don't require huge amounts of space.

I don't think it says that, RS.

In any case there is a HUGE port in NY, but it's in Staten Island and New Jersey, though Red Hook still has port facilities. Much of Manhattan IS a middle-class borough (uptown). But the article is talking about the outer-boroughs, too.

You can't disagree that NY is overtaxed and overregulated, Ayn. It needs better transportation infrastructure. The schools are a mess, public housing should be privatized. The article is arguing for an overhaul of the public sector. Laisse faire economic policies. How can an economic neoclassicist like yourself disagree with that?

FYI space is cheap in the Bronx.

The Tax structure is dysfunctional. City Unions have too much power. Pensions and health care costs for city workers need to be addressed along with retirement criteria. Key to new jobs will be in media, e-commerce. I'd like to see gambling in Manhattan. Disagree that any port in NYC will ever be competitive.

I agree with everything but the port. The Port of New York and New Jersey is competitive, and one of the busiest in the world. Excellent rail links to everywhere.

The competitiveness of the port is in its size, depth, and location: it can serve the entire eastern seaboard from DC to Boston, and inland to Chicago. The only other natural harbors are Baltimore and Newport News, but Carolina is dominated by the navy and nobody lives down there, and Baltimore is small and has all sorts of ecological issues because of the Chesapeake.

It will take leadership in Albany, however, meaning getting rid of Paterson, (especially) Silver, and whoever is actually in charge of the senate up there. Some constitutional changes.

Thanks. That article refreshed my memory as to why I don't read Newsweek. Insightless parroting of general themes without trying to either investigate or reconcile them.

Is the fact that more families than singles left the city in 2005 a new trend or just something that has been going on for years?

Were the financial service jobs that left the city really that much more high-paying than the health care jobs that replaced them or were the back office jobs pushed out by higher rents? Did they move across the Hudson so as to still be statistically part of the metro area?

Is NYC driving out the middle class or full of "middle class bastions."

Any statistics to back up the statements that it is so overregulated that only the big firms can survive?

Read through the immigrant section again and tell me if you believe the author even understands what he/she is trying to say. Its shite.

http://247wallst.com/2009/12/02/the-ten-brands-that-will-disappear-in-2010/

Newsweek. The magazine already has slashed its rate base (circulation guaranteed to advertisers) from 3.1 million to 2.5 million. It has announced further cuts that will take this figure to 1.5 million early next year. The New York Times reported that Newsweek’s advertising fell 29.9% through the first three quarters of 2009. According to the 10-Q for The Washington Post Company (NYSE:WPO), Newsweek ad revenue plunged 47% in the third quarter from the year before. The magazine has lost almost $30 million so far this year. Newsweek had hoped to transform itself into a poor man’s version of the Economist and has largely dropped covering breaking news and reviews of the big stories of the week. The change in the editorial direction of Newsweek may have been the right thing to do, but it came much too late. Newsweek, like many other print products, hopes to rely on internet readership and advertising to improve its fortunes. Audience measurement firm Compete indicates that the audience of Newsweek.com has dropped 15% in the last year to 1.3 million unique visitors a month in October. Audience research firm comScore shows an even sharper decline. That is, by itself, an important indication that the public has not been attracted to the “new” Newsweek. The Washington Post has enough trouble with fixing problems at its flagship paper. Its online news and commentary magazine, Slate.com, had more than 3.8 million visitors in October. Slate has none of the legacy print costs of Newsweek.

I am an importer in Long Island. The traffic that comes into Staten Island(didnt even know goods come into SI) and Red Hook is miniscule compared to Port Elizabeth. I'd say 98% plus of my good come to port elizabeth which is treated as a NY port to overseas suppliers.

Still I am not versed in the inner workings of the The port authortity for NY/NJ. I'm sure revenues are shared by the states on port traffic.

Bottom line is the biggest obstacle to port traffic is highway access. Upgrading ports don't help the bigger problem of not enough roads.

Port Elizabeth can handle far bigger ships. The infrastructure is far better as well. The contest for that has been over for some time.

New York's biggest question mark is do we rely on the finance industry to keep the blood pumping or do we need a new industry that is the bones of the city.
This city exploded being the mecca of garment industry. The finance industry replaced it as the garment industry was moved to China.
Will technology remove the need for a "location" for this industry and turn it into the "buggy whip" is the big question. And if so, what will this city breathe from?

All tough questions.

Port Elizabeth is part of the Port Authority, & is considered part of NY. Red Hook is not part of the Port Authority.

Personally I think merging the Port Authority and the MTA, coming up with a regional transportation strategy, is the best place to start.

Roads: the more roads you build, the more traffic they generate.

Attacking the Newsweek article by attacking the management is like shooting the messenger. Newsweek is not intended to be an academic journal with hundreds of footnotes; it's a general information magazine.

"& is considered part of the port of NY."

Sorry!

Port Elizabeth may be part of the Port Authority, but does traffic through it really benefit the five boroughs or New Jersey? NYC can't handle more roads, we need busineses that don't generate huge amounts of traffic.

That was a useful post, petrzitz.

I don't know the revenue-sharing agreements, but it does as much as the airports do, I suppose, and the Hudson bridges & tunnels.

I think Port Elizabeth was chosen b/c it's on the mainland, close to I-95, the airport, and rail links, with easy access to the entire eastern seaboard. The huge ports of yesteryear are no longer necessary as RORO procedures mean that ships are loaded and unloaded at the same time, and rarely spend more than a day in port.

"Bloomberg has built on many of the achievements of his predecessor during his eight years in City Hall. This, combined with huge campaign spending from his personal fortune, is why voters sent him back for a third term. To position the city for prosperity in an economy that's no longer overly dominated by Wall Street, he'd be wise to spend his final term focused on making new opportunities for people who live far from his own Upper East Side neighborhood—the people who represent the real future of New York."

This is a piece that Kotkin fit around his personal views. From Wiki: Kotkin argues that the model of urban development as exemplified by pre-automobile cities such as New York City and Paris is outdated in many cases. Kotkin believes in a "back to basics" approach which stresses nurturing the middle class and families. He states that the current trend of growth of suburbs will be the dominant pattern around the world. As a result, he believes rail transit is not always ideal for modern cities and suburbs.

I would take what he writes with a grain of salt.

"he believes rail transit is not always ideal for modern cities and suburbs"

He's right. Look at Miami. Spread-out cities are not suitable to rail transport, in general, nor are most suburbs. DC has succeeded in that area, I think, precisely because they have an integrated transportation structure, which NYC does not.

It should.

the remake of newsweek is truly awful...nothing but a bunch of op-eds basically, as if you can't get a zillion of those for free all over the web..there wasn't much mojo to newsweek before, and now there is none...it's dying dying

"The Tax structure is dysfunctional. City Unions have too much power. Pensions and health care costs for city workers need to be addressed along with retirement criteria. Key to new jobs will be in media, e-commerce. I'd like to see gambling in Manhattan. Disagree that any port in NYC will ever be competitive"

Agreed 100%. We simply have an awful, awful business climate. I saw a stat that NYC produces something like 30% of the biotech patents, but has like 3% of the companies based on these patents (don't remember the exact numbers, but its an order of magniture difference). The companies simply start elsewhere. Dotcom could grow here, we have some (needs to be improved) talent and schools trying to improve, but space and taxes are just too expensive

The only reason nobody noticed or cared is because Wall Street paid for everything. Its been the golden goose, and can afford the higher costs, and will pay them to stay here, which is still relatively important.

But, in terms of non-finance business, we're pretty mcuh screwed.

"From Wiki: Kotkin argues that the model of urban development as exemplified by pre-automobile cities such as New York City and Paris is outdated in many cases. Kotkin believes in a "back to basics" approach which stresses nurturing the middle class and families. He states that the current trend of growth of suburbs will be the dominant pattern around the world. As a result, he believes rail transit is not always ideal for modern cities and suburbs."

Yeah, he's an idiot. There has been coverage all over the place about how the suburbs are trying to change back. Things like town squares. The mega development outside LA, building mini town centers. Suburban developments in minneapolis building a cluster of apartments and stores in the middle of the mcmansions.

I think the suburbs pretty much proved themselves obsolete in many ways, and are much more successful if they are more like edge cities.

"City Unions have too much power."

Rather than merely recylcle your old RNC/ Chamber of COmmerce talking points all day long, why don't you elaborate on how unions have too much power? If the city unions had half as much power as you think they do, don't you think city cops would be making the same amount of money as suburban cops??

"don't you think city cops would be making the same amount of money as suburban cops"

They do when you include the benefits.

It's not the salary, it's the benefits that is killing the city budget.

"They do when you include the benefits."

No they don't. Suburban cops get practically the same benefits as city cops do. So they still make 25% less.

"It's not the salary, it's the benefits that is killing the city budget."

well, i guess it's both. when it comes to retirement cost, from this year on the city is expected by the unions to spend more on health care benefits for public retirees than in the pension check per se. giving retirees benefits just till they are able to sign up for medicare will help a lot.

http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/recruitment.htm

$97,000 after 5 years. New York is $90,000 after 5.5 years.

If you think that New York can afford these wages (and worse, the benefits), you're nuts.

and what do you propose the city do? Take benefits away from all retireees? My father is a retired subway conductor. He has diabetes. What do you geniiuses propose? Retiress take out HELOCs to pay for their medical care?

"and what do you propose the city do? Take benefits away from all retireees? "

wouldn't your dad get health care through medicare? those benefits shouldn't have been granted to begin with imho. if you want to give benefits, pay them upfront. the health care benefits are the discretionary part, were the cuts can be made more easily. it's simple, cut across the board or benefit the same people that gave themselves unsustainable benefits to the detriment of the workers that are actually providing services that taxpayers need right now. painful transition towards "you are on your own" already common in the private sector.

unions should have wised up about this long time ago. a private sector with less pay, less safety and less benefits cannot possibly sustain public cushy jobs. taxpayers decide where to live according to what services are provided NOW, not 2 decades ago. massive unpaid bills that come from previous taxpayers wanting to kick the can down the road (ie: promising future taxpayers will pay a nice retirement in exchange for lower salaries back then) are not good for the local economy.

no, he is not 65.

btw The_President, at the current rate of obesity, everybody and their dog will have diabetes. what do you propose? HELOC the country? well, my friend, it's being done.

I don't know how we got on the Port Authority from a RE web site, but since we're there, there are a few corrections to statements made above.

"The competitiveness of the port is in its size, depth, and location: it can serve the entire eastern seaboard from DC to Boston, and inland to Chicago." - First part of sentence true; the part after the colon technically correct but largely irrelevant because little of the cargo that comes through PONYNJ - something like 10-15% of containers and little of anything else - goes out by rail. The rest goes by truck. The port generally competes down to South Jersey (after which Philly/Baltimore/Virginia is more competitive) and up to central New England (north of which Boston and them Montreal are more competitive). Something like 80% (forget the exact stat) of the cargo that arrives at the port is consumed within 200 miles of the dock, which together with the truck vs. rail stat emphasizes that PONYNJ is busy and successful because it serves a huge population in the greater NY region. Re: inland to Chicago, some NY containers go that far but Asia to Midwest traffic goes over the West Coast and Virginia (Newport News) has better rail links to Chicago so NY's competitiveness tends to run out somewhere in the Ohio Valley.

"Carolina is dominated by the navy and nobody lives down there" - Newport News is in Virginia, not Carolina. Lots of people live in the greater DC area

"Baltimore is small and has all sorts of ecological issues because of the Chesapeake." - Issue with Baltimore is more location. The extra steaming time up and down the Chesapeake makes it incompetitive vs. Virginia (where the facilities are also larger and more modern)

"The traffic that comes into Staten Island(didnt even know goods come into SI) and Red Hook is miniscule compared to Port Elizabeth." - New York Container Terminal on Staten Island is large (similar in size to the smallest of the three Port Newark/Port Elizabeth terminals). Yes, Port Elizabeth is much larger, but SI is not miniscule. Red Hook is miniscule

"Port Elizabeth can handle far bigger ships." - vs. Red Hook yes, although height limitations under the Bayonne Bridge prevent the largest ships from getting to Port Elizabeth and SI. The largest ships that call NY go to the Global terminal on the Bayonne, NJ waterfront. That one is privately owned and not Port Authority.

"Red Hook is not part of the Port Authority." - It is. PA owns the land and leases it to the terminal operator. Same arrangement as the 4 large terminals in NJ / SI.

"Port Elizabeth may be part of the Port Authority, but does traffic through it really benefit the five boroughs or New Jersey?" - I guess the question of whether it benefits NYC depends on whether people in NYC like to eat and have clothes to wear and stuff to buy in stores. If not, I agree, no benefit.

"I think Port Elizabeth was chosen b/c it's on the mainland, close to I-95, the airport, and rail links, with easy access to the entire eastern seaboard." - I assume this is generally correct, although when the main Port Elizabeth facilities were developed it was probably US Route 1 instead of I-95. I don't know all the history but I expect that amount of available land area in NJ (vs. the piers that used to ring Manhattan) plus highest and best use considerations in Manhattan would have played a big part as well

Final comment: petrfitz - I see that your comment was deleted, as it certainly should have been. That doesn't make you any less of an a**hole for having posted it in the first place.

Sorry that last one ended up being so long. Pretty proud of myself, though - it isn't every day that I get a chance to out-pedantic stevejhx!

if my father bought insurance on the priave market, it would easily cost him 50% of his pension. There is now ay he would buy it. And without insurance he would just go to the ER where YOU would pay for his medical care, which would cost much more than giving him insurance so that he can go to a private doctor.

great info sls

"The largest ships that call NY go to the Global terminal on the Bayonne, NJ waterfront. That one is privately owned and not Port Authority."

who owns it?

so T_P, once he is 65, he should have to sign up to medicare and unburden the city/state. but then medicare is yet again another system with serious solvency issues (and several of it's parts are already in red)... oh well...

and what do you propose the city do? Take benefits away from all retireees? My father is a retired subway conductor. He has diabetes. What do you geniiuses propose? Retiress take out HELOCs to pay for their medical care?

Ah emotional response. you think we are attacking dad

"who owns it?" A Canadian pension fund owns a company that owns the land and operates the container terminal. In Elizabeth, SI and Red Hook, the PA owns the land and leases it to private companies that operate the terminals.

.....that slaughtered the slaughterer,
That slaughtered the ox, that drank the water,
That put out the fire, that burnt the stick,
That beat the dog, that bit the cat,
That ate the little goat,
That my father bought for two coins,
One little goat, one little goat......

This thread is brought to you by your friends at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

Got a union problem? Got a problem with benefits? Call us! We'll fix them!

Good job, SLS, but I thought Red Hook was owned by the NY Department of Ports, or whatever it's called.

"My father is a retired subway conductor."

My grandfather was a retired bus driver.

"He has diabetes. What do you geniiuses propose?"

How about losing weight?

"Retiress take out HELOCs to pay for their medical care?"

There's Medicare, just like everybody else gets.

The fact is, Alpie, there isn't a large enough tax basis to continue to pay these benefits - like retirement at 42, after 20 years of service, at 50% of your average salary over the last 3 years (ramp up the OT) which IS NOT SUBJECT TO NYS OR NYC TAX, and is noncontributory.

It's not what people "deserve" - personally, I deserve a yacht - it's what society can afford.

yep, the cold hard numbers will eventually speak for themselves (bet within 5 to 10 years, cuts will have to be made). as i see it, it pays to try to anticipate and get ready for what is coming. the more time pass, the fewer options remain. as i see it, there might be cuts for those with assets/income (like taxing SS more for ex) and higher premiums for medicare for those with higher incomes (ie: implicit cuts in benefits) along with $ printing. ny & nyc will tax pensions as if it were income, stuff like that.

last time i checked, more of the # for education goes to teacher's pensions than to education per se. what surprised me was that this wasnt' so much an issue of union state vs right to work. texas is severely unfunded too for ex. there are few states that are not in dire straights when it comes to this. kicking the can and higher longevity don't discriminate.

The city can't afford a system where a cop works for 20 years, collects a pension, benefits, moves to florida, and works another job.. epsecially considering current life spans.

i've met several baby boomers (young ones) that claim they are firefighters cause of the pension. always surprise me the confidence they have in eventually receiving it.

for a civil servant. you aren't rich while you work, you are rich when you retire.

steve - re: Red Hook, see third paragraph under "About ASI" here: http://www.asiterminals.com/

Excellent and really interesting information sidelinesitter. Those of you who were ardent fans of the "The Wire" will remember an entire season devoted to decline of the Baltimore docks, mostly due to time versus Norfolk/Newport News. Steve, I grew up near West Side docks and remember seeing the City Pier, Marine, Department signage everywhere. But its been so long, I can't recall the name of that department..suspect it doesn't exist anymore.

"There's Medicare, just like everybody else gets."

ONLY if your 65. Not all retirees are 65.

"for a civil servant. you aren't rich while you work, you are rich when you retire."

Really? My father's pension is $36,000 a year. You call that rich? Pensions are only 50% of your pay, not 100% as many people here have claimed. I think you can get 75%, but only if you are disabled as a result of being injured on the job.

> "and what do you propose the city do? Take benefits away from all retireees? "

No, genius. All the city is asking for is that NEW EMPLOYEES get a more normal package, and/or they contribute a couple bucks like private sector employees.

But the unions and the politicians they own don't like that either.

You're not only not smart, you are easily suckered by irrelevant sob stories.

"Pensions are only 50% of your pay, not 100% as many people here have claimed. I think you can get 75%, but only if you are disabled as a result of being injured on the job."

Except that there is another scam... the saving overtime hours for folks in their last couple years. So you make 2.5 times your salary in the end, and then you get to keep MORE THAN your salary when you retire.

I know this one well... I have family members who did it.

Another little scam...

also, public employees don't have their SS taxes. Another little sneaky benefit my relatives have.

> ONLY if your 65. Not all retirees are 65.

So, teachers and body scanners should retire at full salary and lifetime benefits at, what? 40?

"The city can't afford a system where a cop works for 20 years, collects a pension, benefits, moves to florida, and works another job.. epsecially considering current life spans."

Bingo.

Not to mention, count the cops/garbagemen/etc. who have side jobs DURING. Who do you think does all the renovation projects in Nassau County.

public employees do not retire at full salary. They get HALF their salary. If your going to attack unions, at least get your facts straight.

""My father is a retired subway conductor."

My grandfather was a retired bus driver."

They both chose the wrong part of the MTA. LIRR is the way to go:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/nyregion/21lirr.html?_r=1
Virtually every career employee — as many as 97 percent in one recent year — applies for and gets disability payments soon after retirement, a computer analysis of federal records by The New York Times has found. Since 2000, those records show, about a quarter of a billion dollars in federal disability money has gone to former L.I.R.R. employees, including about 2,000 who retired during that time.

The L.I.R.R.’s disability rate suggests it is one of the nation’s most dangerous places to work. Yet in four of the last five years, the railroad has won national awards for improving worker safety.

“Short of the gulag, I can’t imagine any work force that would have a so-to-speak 90 percent disability attrition rate,” said Glenn Scammel, long one of Capitol Hill’s top experts on railroads. “That defies both logic and experience.”

And the MTA has deficits and is cutting service because...

"public employees do not retire at full salary. They get HALF their salary. If your going to attack unions, at least get your facts straight. "

Alpo, you can keep repeating yourself, but you are wrong. Read the above posts.

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

My father's pension check tells me I am right. have you ever seen a public pension check in person?

From the NYPD website:

"Optional retirement at one half salary after 20 years of service"

OOPS!

http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_BenefitsOverview.aspx

somewhereelse knows everything. His mom works for the Board of Ed. He was beat up as a kid and was angry that the teachers didn't stop it and so today he works to claw back their pensions by posting frequently on streeteasy to try to win people over to his cause.

"They both chose the wrong part of the MTA. LIRR is the way to go:"

It's very hard to get into the LIRR. Unlike the MTA, the LIRR is not technically civil service. It's run more like a private corporation than a govt. agency.

"It's very hard to get into the LIRR" No doubt. Ya think the word might have got around about the disability scam?

"It's run more like a private corporation than a govt. agency." Maybe. Not a lot of private corporations have 90+% "disability" claims at retirement. That would break the bank pretty quickly at a private corporation (a.k.a., a corporation where taxpayers are not on the hook for the retirement and disability benefits).

> My father's pension check tells me I am right. have you ever seen a public pension check in person?

Yup, last week. And it was 120% of salary. NYC public teacher pension.

uh, whooops.

Dude, when you finally can afford to move back to NYC, then you can talk.

"Unlike the MTA, the LIRR is not technically civil service. It's run more like a private corporation than a govt. agency. "

Uh, Alpo.... seriously, you should just stop talking. You know NOTHING about New York. Stick to Jersey.

LIRR is PART OF THE MTA!

Jeez, go home already.

120% of salary? ok, you are full of it.

No, you again just have no idea what you are talking about.

Its called overtime, doggie.

"In 2006, the last year for which data are available, the pension benefit for a newly retired firefighter averaged just under $73,000 annually. On top of that, many get another $12,000 every December as a "Christmas bonus" to bring the annual cash total to $85,000 - all of which is exempt from state and local income taxes."

Alpo, you're telling me the firefighters all haf $170 salaries?

jeez, you are slow.

Those firefigter numbers must include health benefits. The media likes to lump benefits and compensation together to make it appear that union employees make more than they really do.

with health benefits, my father gets more than 50% of his salary in his pension. But I was solely referring to monetary compensation, not benefits.

uh, nope.. Try again, alpo. I left out the part about extra benefits.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

You are wrong, thats it.

Go back to Jersey.

Yes, where I come from "cash total" includes health benefits.

Wow, jeez, alpo... you are REALLY slow.

Why do you always say wow? Are you so often surprised?

what's the source of your information? Share the link.

nope, sorry, alpo.... I'm going to let you just wallow in being wrong...

somewhereelse knows everything. His mom works for the Board of Ed. He was beat up as a kid and was angry that the teachers didn't stop it and so today he works to claw back their pensions by posting frequently on streeteasy to try to win people over to his cause.
Somewhere else uses The President's old name but refuses to acknowledge his.