Sounds like Jim Hones is owed an apology

add BLDG's downtown properties

But printer, didn't you know that the mainstream media is paid by the real estate industry to shill with articles like this?
And that nothing that landlords say is to be believed because they are just talking their books?
And that regardless of what landlords say you have no idea what deals they really cut (because that individual renter has oh so much bargaining power!)?
And that my fourth cousin twice removed's ex-girlfriend's sister just renewed her lease at a $200 discount, providing definitive proof that rent are collapsing all over manhattan and that certainly no renter in manhattan will ever pay a broker's fee again?
And that whatever strength may be reported by the mainstream media shills is illusory because we're almost out. Of renter lemmings and by next quarter/next month/next week/today by noon the market is going to hell?
There, now that we have that straightened out, we can go back waiting for the world to end.

What if the mainstream media printed a story form the real estate industry about rents falling. Brings up The Liars paradox.....

However, in this particular context, the Liar's Paradox is trumped by the Iron Law of Mindless Bears, which holds that all negative information about the real estate market, regardless of provenance, is per se credible.

Funny all the article says as this will happen at a future specified date.
Sounds more like a testing of the waters.
And as "large" as these 4 may be perceived,what do thety represent? 50 buildings in manhattan?

Right now this is Spirit Airlines proposing a checked backage fee.

But kudos to Dawn Wotapka from the WSJ for doing a slightly better job on this article than the last.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/20654-wsj-rental-report-is-the-rental-fee-coming-back

Apologies? For what? The claim was that incentives had already disappeared. THis article confirms they are still in place!

NYC Housing Prices Continue to Fall
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2010/05/nyc_housing_pri.php

Home Prices Decline 3.1% in First Quarter, FHFA Says (Update1)
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-25/home-prices-decline-3-1-in-first-quarter-fhfa-says-update1-.html

"Pan Am Equities Inc., another large apartment owner, intends to stop paying the fee on June 1, according to brokers. Pan Am declined to comment."

I hear Greece "intends" to get their sh#t together. That and $5 will get them a bowl of soup. Let's see what happens.

I feel pretty comfortable waiting.

> Clearly the rental market has tightened.

At lower rents.

As we said.

NYC Housing Prices Continue to Fall
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2010/05/nyc_housing_pri.php

Home Prices Decline 3.1% in First Quarter, FHFA Says (Update1)
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-25/home-prices-decline-3-1-in-first-quarter-fhfa-says-update1-.html

ouch.

A classic oligopoly tactic. Trying to reset some pricing power that is above market clearing by basically 'colluding' thru shout outs to one another. No different than home depot announcing price matching nor one of the big three car cos announg an across the board 3% price increase.

Printer/jimnutz/nytimes/crames/post=> the Joe isuzu of the NYC re lls

Do you know another thing that oligopolies do? They limit information by using a select sales channel. Ie having one or two brokers work the entire rental side, thereby creating an asymmetric pricing information.

it is good to see that you recognize that the rental market has tightened.

as far as case-shiller, you are free to use that index, which excludes 98% of the properties that are sold in Manhattan, if you wish - good luck with that

> it is good to see that you recognize that the rental market has tightened.

Again, tightened at lower prices.... as we said!

"as far as case-shiller, you are free to use that index, which excludes 98% of the properties that are sold in Manhattan, if you wish - good luck with that"

Of course, the manhattan index is down too!

> 4thQ '09 $1051 sales 2473
> 1stQ '10 $1038 sales 2384

yes, we got it... Manhattan is still completely different than everwhere else (except for the fact that it tanked like the others just like we said)

"I feel pretty comfortable waiting."

How does that work exactly? Do you live in a tent in a park or in a cardboard box on the sidewalk while you wait to rent?

I sat down with my landlord recently to resign a two-year lease in Tribeca.

He said that the rental market had firmed up and many of his places that had been sitting were beginning to rent and that the low-ball offers he had been receiving had subsided.

At the same time, the rent didn't go up at all and I got several improvements made to the space.

On the rental fee front, I don't see where all of the demand for medium-high rents is coming from with all that is going on with the stock market and our present rate of unemployment. I am just glad that I am able to rent a space that would cost me at least 50% more to carry if I owned it.

Article from early 2009 that everyone found credible:

http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2009/03/25/manhattan-rents-falling-falling/

Recent article from the same source that is now broker shill

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704113504575264863146900120.html?mod=WSJ_NY_LEFTSecondStories

Hmm. The only people to use the word "shill" in this thread are bulls. The desperate search for a straw man continues.

malthus has yet to realize that there are actually two sides of a coin.

Ha. I'm a bull? You don't spend much time on SE, do you? I just have a problem with knee-jerk, mindless bears who make bears who actually think look bad by association.

malthus, and I'm guessing invoking Joe Isuzu is in no way comparable, right? Please.

sidelinesitter, amen.

"Hmm. The only people to use the word "shill" in this thread are bulls. The desperate search for a straw man continues."

lol.

Juice is also grasping at straw (men).

swe, master of calling out "straw (men)" arguments and incapable of identifying his own

So where was the thinking part of your response, sidelinesitter?

I'm not the relentless bear that some might be and I think the article itself is pretty interesting. I will be interested to see how it plays out. Three years ago landlords were pricesetters. Now rents are negotiable so just because they are raising the offer price doesn't mean they will get it. I suspect Memito's anecdote may be a common one, and am looking forward to hearing more of them.

Name the strawmen juice. The couple times I've been called out for strawmen, I've produced folk saying exactly that. The response is usually "well, THAT person wasn't credit".

Well, no sh*t.

well if Memito's anecdote becomes common, that would mean rents are rising since (s)he resigned a 2yr lease, and rents were down spring '08-spring '09. even if you take 'improvements', that would still mean, what flat since last year?

back to the OP... if apologies are being called for...

how about just ONE bull admitting that the bears called the market tank right?

just ONE.

Come on, we had a literal CRASH, and we're still in the dumps.

Surely just ONE bull can admit they were right?!?! (I'm sure it won't be juice)

"Surely just ONE bull can admit they were right?!?! (I'm sure it won't be juice)"

Actually swe, I called a 10% market correction in 2007. Right now, we are 15% off of 2007 prices. So I'm happy to say I was pretty close with my predictions. I think you said 15-20%, which was pretty good as well. Where are the folks that said 50-70%? When will they admit they were wrong?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3445-shiller-housing-slump-may-exceed-depression?page=1

From early 2008

Urbandigs: "Why cant Manhattan prices dip 5 or 10% over the next year or so without crashing? Is this not entirely possible?"

JuiceMan: "This has been my point exactly. I think a 5-10% correction is highly possible and probably needed (and what the current inventory picture is most likely telling us). It's the 50% decrease malarkey that I find silly and unproductive."

I love it when swe is proven wrong with information posted on this very site! c'mon swe, you can do it. Tell me I was RIGHT!!!! LMAO!

FYI, my rent has gone up 4% since 2006... and it isn't a cookie-cutter space.

Still don't understand the title of the thread, what apology is owed?;

According to the article, these are "intentions" for the future with the exception of Avalon Bay, the one you actually failed to mention.
What exactly has been "happening for months" is the opposite.

"The rental unit of Related Cos., which has about 5,000 units across Manhattan, will stop paying the fee May 31"

"In a recent email, Ogden CAP Properties LLC said it won't pay fees at several properties, including Normandie Court on East 95th Street and One Lincoln Plaza on West 64th Street. It declined to comment. "

"Pan Am Equities Inc., another large apartment owner, intends to stop paying the fee on June 1, according to brokers. Pan Am declined to comment."

"AvalonBay Communities Inc. in most cases is no longer paying the fee for leases in its seven New York City communities—including four in Manhattan."

"The LeFrak Organization, which owns about 2,500 Manhattan rentals, pays the broker fee in buildings with several units available or with larger apartments, which rent for more and can take longer to fill."

And still no comments that these are proposed changes that DIDN"T HAPPEN YET?

Wow you guys are really anti semantic.

sorry forgot to add the "happening for months" reference

jim_hones10
7 days ago
ignore this person

I have been saying for months that the landlord incentives are disappearing, that inventory is shrinking and broker fees are coming back into the market.What do you think?

day late and a dollar short big apple. i posted this article on saturday morning. the will not to believe is very very strong on this board.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/20654-wsj-rental-report-is-the-rental-fee-coming-back

"landlord incentives are disappearing"

Id agree with this statement. 2009 was the year of the concession. Any data on rental rates will not tell the picture, and therefore to me, are useless data points to use at all. It was the net effective rents that made 2009 such a big hit for rental markets. I know many that got no fee, up to 2 free months, etc.. to sign leases. Now the landlords are offering less OPs, meaning the no fee inventory is lower, and the free months are not offered as quickly as they were in 2009. From what I hear, its the concessions that are gone, and the rates are about the same. Again, its from what I hear. I am definitely NOT the best real time source for rental markets so these opinions could be a bit stale.

I am perfectly willing to believe a strengthening rental market, but no one has shown any comps. Just "they're gonna pull fees, ya better watch out". So what? I paid a fee last time I rented, and I still was happy to pay a fee on places I was considering last year, it just doesn't matter to me: I only care about overall price. Are prices 10% lower than places that were "no-fee" last year? Is anyone actually biting? Is it simply seasonal?

If you have actual comps, please post them to the "Rental Edition" thread. My bellweather buildings are RSB condos because they represents a transparent market where we can observe price movement. I see virutally nothing.

For example, here's 220 RSB:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/611522-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

The cheapest 1BR currently available is 755 sq ft, 10-20th floor, at $2995 where it's been sitting for 3 months now:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/611522-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

The last asks on 1BR's at 700+ sq ft from this last year, +/- 3 months, were all $2950+. The only thing lower out of ~50 comparable listings spanning over 4 years was this unit at $2650:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/592954-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

It's priced 11.5% lower, but it's also 7% less space, ~10 floors lower, and in the dead of winter. That's not what I'd call an uptick.

If you've got actual comps showing substantial increases, let's see them: it's gotta happen sooner or later...

Flmao. You f'ning brokers are mistaking the broker fee squeeze with a strengthening market. Omfg. It'll go back to the old days where lls post signs outside the doorman buildings. You know 'please inquire about availability'. Flmao.

> Actually swe, I called a 10% market correction in 2007.

Actually, you didn't. Your own quote shows it pretty clearly to be a worst case scenario.

Yes, the 70% folks were on crack, it could have been hyperbole.

But the vast majority of bears when polled said 15-30%. They were right on, yet here you are calling bulls "wrong" again.

So, where is that apology?

Thank you Nada, making my point better than I could.
Where's the beef, right now all I see our ads for future bigger better hamburgers.

And saying it's going to happen for six months then maybe having it happen in 9 or 12 doesnt't make that person anywhere near "right."

> From early 2008

Btw, by early 2008, the crash had already started. You congratulating yourself on not quite calling the corrected after it started?

thats a funny one.

"I love it when swe is proven wrong with information posted on this very site! c'mon swe, you can do it. Tell me I was RIGHT!!!! LMAO!"

not to mention you proved me correct.

Where is that apology again?

'if you've got actual comps showing substantial increases, let's see them'

strawman - no one ever said there are substantial increases. only pointed out that previous anecdotal reports of disappearing landlord incentives are now being born out by what's coming out of the major landlords. i put a lot more stock in what they say than some random rentals of flipper owned crap condo buildings. you are not going to go from 2 months free rent and no broker fee to substantial increases overnight - its a gradual process, as UD explains above. i expect better from you, nada.

> strawman - no one ever said there are substantial increases

Except perfitz and jones and a few others.... and jones is referenced in the title.

So, yes, printer, you didn't say it, but you are in a discussion where it has been.

SWE, Juice just wrote that your prediction of 15-20% down was a pretty good prediction. would you like him to put it on the ticker in times square?

"c'mon swe, you can do it. Tell me I was RIGHT!!!! LMAO!"

rotfl.

still waiting for just ONE bull!

come on, you can do it!

You can admit the bulls were right!

come on, just one!

You do realize that in between the "crap condo buildings" of 80/100/120/200/220/240 RSB sit the "crappier rental buildings" of 140/160/180 RSB? Somehow, we have a 15% increase in 140/160/180 RSB, yet nothing happens in 80/100/120/200/220/240 RSB?

well, can't say i've ever read much of his posts - i just used him in the title for shock value

Yes, I give juice credit for accurately calling that there would be a correction... AFTER it happened.

lol.

But lets see what Juice ACTUALLY said pre-crash..

"Goodness. Nothing like pissing in a buyers cornflakes eh? MMAfia, suppose you are right and the market corrects more than it already has. What percentage do you believe it would correct? 5-10%? Condos in prime UWS or Gramercy? Not going to happen."

whoooooooooooops

LMAO.

"i put a lot more stock in what they say"

Really? You put more stock in the asking prices of an opaque market with no historical data made available rather than the transacting prices of a highly correlated transparent market with actual available historical data?

I expect better from you, printer ;).

"Your talking about a 15-20%+ correction. Ain't gonna happen."
"Fringe properties in fringe areas will suffer. Maybe enough to flatten the overall market. As for the good neighborhoods...up...up...up."
"dco, if you are waiting 12-18 months for prices to come down you are in for a surprise. How long do you really think this economic slowdown will last? If this recession is mild, what happens then? Manhattan is always the last to be impacted in a slowdown and the first to recover. Do you think we’ll be in recession for the next 3 years? "

[18 months ago]"Housing crisis is over " [nope] "Yes, the housing market is bottoming right now." [nope]

"I'm glad you are coming around to the fact that Manhattan real estate is unique and the sooner you get in, the better"

need a good laugh every now and then!

juice is definitely the new stevejhx.... not only calls it wrong, brags about calling it right afterward!

> well, can't say i've ever read much of his posts - i just used him in the title for shock value

Well, pick almost any stupid bullish comment, odds are he, perfitz, steveF, or alpo have said it.

"well, can't say i've ever read much of his posts"

You're better off for it. Basically, rental increases have been claimed for more than six months. Despite repeated requests for actual data, he didn't have the time to post anything because he was too busy calling people c--- and b----. Now that we see what may simply be landlords reacting to a seasonal shift in supply/demand, victory has been declared.

how transparent is the data you are looking at - as best i can tell for rentals SE only shows the final asking price - so you don't know what agreed price was, what concessions were, who paid the fee.

and almost by definition, someone who is renting out a condo in a trump building is not a professional - they are inexperienced, and have varied motivations..... whereas related, et. al. are run by professionals with cash flow maximization as their sole priority.

i hear you on the seasonals, however the yr/yr decline in vacancy speaks that it may be more than that.

"Actually, you didn't. Your own quote shows it pretty clearly to be a worst case scenario."

What part of it signals worst-case to you? Was it "highly possible"? Ironically, you're the one grasping at straws.

Printer:

I agree, all we have is a last asking rent, and I'm saying the last asking rent of a 3-months-with-no-takers price is comparable to the last asking rents of last year. This particular unit has sat for 4 months now, 3 of them at this price. There are 3 other units sitting within spitting-distance price-wise that have sat for a combined 12 months. There's no way to tell for sure, but it would seem that negotiability is on the same order as last year when a comparable number of units were vying for the same customer.

On the professional vs. non-professional thing, let me let you in on a little secret, they all basically just want mostest money. On the renter side, they all bascially want to pay the leastest money. If they get it at the rental building, they go to the rental building. If they get it at the condo, they get it there. We're not going to see an effective 15% move in one (2 months free w/ no-fee, amortized over a couple of years) with no visible move in the other.

Again, we're not talking about one-off units: this condo has 10 units 700-900 sq ft, with 4 quite similar to the one in question in terms of price & size.

"Your own quote shows it pretty clearly to be a worst case scenario."

You are beginning to sound like steve. "Highly possible and probably needed" doesn't translate to worst case scenario. I know it kills you swe, but I've got you here. Caught in his own bravado, now watch swe backpedal.

Funny thing is, I actually did the math at the end of 2007 and came up with ~10% correction to get close to equilibrium on a rent to buy basis (rents were a lot stronger then). I wasn't spot on but pretty close, no matter how hard swe tries to distort the truth.

funny how calling someone steve-like is an insult on this board

"i hear you on the seasonals, however the yr/yr decline in vacancy speaks that it may be more than that."

Perhaps. On the other hand, landlords trying to hold firm on 2008 pricing a year ago saw their units go empty as there was no demand at those prices. Nobody is asking 2008 pricing any more. Having low vacancy rates with 2008 pricing is different than having low vacancy rates with 2009 pricing. Not sure which story is more fitting, don't really think I care: I'm more interested in seeing it in the pricing.

i still have yet to be told how the current vacancy numbers are arrived at. are they the units that have been released? or do they include all of the units that are unoccupied? do they include all of the condos for rent?

over the last few days i've been keeping track of the buildings i see with highly visible apartment for rent signs (not the ones that have a permanent plaque on the side, for example) and then i look for them on SE. today's was 25 E. 38th. broker's sign, no listings on SE.

btw, hones doesn't deserve any apologies. he's been lying for months. if his lies are more accurate now, well, forgive us for our skepticism. if i were a landlord i'd make every effort to have the rental market appear as healthy as possible during the summer season. you have a tremendous number of newcomers who don't have a clue about the true state of the market, it behooves them to suck as much out of them and their parents as possible.

yr/yr decline in vacancy speaks to the fact that the market has found its level. 1st step - stop the bleeding.

and the motivations and actions of a company like glenwood, a long-time developer/owner with thousands of units are not the same as some irish plumber who thinks donald trump is really cool and leveraged his 1mm euro house (current value 300k) to buy a place on riverside boulevard b/c he thought that he was making a can't miss investment on a property that bordered central park, and needs a certain rent to cover his mortage/common charges, not to mention doesn't have the cash to pay a broker fee himself, but really just wants someone, anyone, to bail him out of his albatross. 10 units owned by 10 different individuals is a lot different even than 10 units owned by one individual.

Jim Jones said all of this had ALREADY happened. This article is about FUTURE actions...and does not have data showing yoy rent increases. SOMEDEDAY rents will go up, even skyrocket, as the liar says has already happened.. But this article does not say this at all.

"You are beginning to sound like steve. "Highly possible and probably needed" doesn't translate to worst case scenario. I know it kills you swe, but I've got you here. Caught in his own bravado, now watch swe backpedal. "

juice, juice, how sad. It was the second post, where I noted that I caught afterward that you said that AFTER THE CORRECTION STARTED! Hillarious.

Your ACTUAL call...

"Your talking about a 15-20%+ correction. Ain't gonna happen."

"Goodness. Nothing like pissing in a buyers cornflakes eh? MMAfia, suppose you are right and the market corrects more than it already has. What percentage do you believe it would correct? 5-10%? Condos in prime UWS or Gramercy? Not going to happen."

You're saying that *I* backpedaled? Hillarious!

Your "I called the crash" claim is as much of a backpedal as it gets!

You called it wrong, and changed your story after it happened!

LMAO!

> Funny thing is, I actually did the math at the end of 2007 and came up with ~10% correction to

Yes, funny... because you called the opposite!

"What percentage do you believe it would correct? 5-10%? Condos in prime UWS or Gramercy? Not going to happen."

LMAO.

Vacant numbers arrived same as kspeak's qol crime stats. Each police chief felt pressured to fudge the numbers. Printer give it up. Jimnutz give it up, urbandigs give it up.

NYC re is dead dead dead and the rentals will lead the path to righteousness. May the god of cashflow prevail.

"Jim Jones said all of this had ALREADY happened. This article is about FUTURE actions...and does not have data showing yoy rent increases."

well, it does seem like Juice and the bulls confuse before and after!

> funny how calling someone steve-like is an insult on this board

Juice, that part I'm with you on.

The concession that is going away is OP fee -- I've seen only muted discussion of other incentives going away. This is a revealed segmentation model/preference.

Maybe these landlords see that the "assisted" segment of the is less price sensitive than the "do it yourself" segment? Or, conversely, this is a signal to the market that you overpay by getting assistance?

Also, if you take back a concession and then lower the rent.... have you said anything?

"yr/yr decline in vacancy speaks to the fact that the market has found its level. 1st step - stop the bleeding."

I agree with this statement: the bleeding has indeed stopped. Truthfully, the bleeding had already stopped last year at this time. I don't think transacting rents have really moved much in the last 12 months after the fast-and-furious 20% drop. The average asking rent, on the other hand, has dropped to be much closer to transacting rents since last year, which jives with the vacancy rate drop. It took the summer of 2009 to convince some owners that 2008 rents were not coming back.

btw, Rose (one of the larger ones) lowered rents since last years (brought them down in the last 30-60 days) in at least one building I know.

I also looked at another archstone building, which uses formulas to determine the rent.... same apartments down since last year. They never did free months (because their formula lowers rent quickly if something doesn't sell).

Would be very cool to get a look at archstone's raw data...

As I've said a few times already, you can't look at some of these things in a vacuum and claim "market stronger". As Noah points out above, are net affective rents really higher, or are tenants simply paying less rent on a different time schedule? One of the things which skews this renting up new buildings, where investors and/or lenders were told certain rents would be achievable and therefore doing ANYTHING to get the rent on the lease to those numbers became important. Once that game starts, everyone else has to follow suit because in general the renting public is not very educated (my new mantra for this forum: "Not everyone reads SE. Not everyone has real estate as a hobby") so they tend to flock towards the "shiny marbles" (i.e. free rent, "no fee", etc.) and once it starts, "everyone" does it because otherwise no one will look at their stock, even if it's actually priced better (net effective). So once a decent amount of the "we have to rent this stuff up right away" new construction goes away, LL's tend to go back to their NORMAL way of doing business. Over the last 3 decades, does anyone know what percentage of that time Pan Am ever offered any concessions at all? When someone gets their leg sliced open and they put a number of staples in it on the way to or in the emergency room, is it "better than ever" or "we stopped the bleeding"?

* http://www.abcarticledirectory.com/Article/Stuff-101---Four-Turkey-Poult-Raising-Tips/786475
"As mentioned earlier turkey poults may have a hard time learning how to eat. There are a couple of things you do to help them along. First off, if you are also raising chicks, add a few to the bunch so the turkeys will learn from watching the chicks eat. Or you can put shiny marbles in their feed and water dishes to attract the baby turkeys. And finally just by dipping their beaks in the water and food
you have a better chance of the turkey poults learning what it is"

"There, now that we have that straightened out, we can go back waiting for the world to end"

LOL. Where has this ass-clown been the last two years??

"juice, juice, how sad. It was the second post, where I noted that I caught afterward that you said that AFTER THE CORRECTION STARTED! Hillarious"

When caught with your pants down...lie, lie, lie! The correction had not started, in fact prices were still going up at the beginning of 2008 or did you conveniently forget this?

Here is a post from that same thread:

"At this point, we have seen some inventory build up but good properties priced reasonably (less than 10% increase from last years comps) are still moving. Considering the rest of the country, Manhattan has held up amazingly, and that gives me even more confidence going forward. Correction? Most likely. Collapse? Highly unlikely."

Correction - check. Collapse - hahahahhahaahahahaahahahaha!

C'mon swe, you can do it. Admit defeat. No leg = can stand.

Well lets face it....this horse has been beaten by someone or another for 3 years running. EVENTUALLY there will be sustained rent increases and whomever posts this idea last will be able to say "I TOLD YOU RENTS WERE GOING UP!" So this is why I don't really pay attention to who said what in 2008...eventually every bear and bull will be correct. That does not mean they are psychic or a brilliant RE analyst.

I'm psychic, brilliant, and humble.

"eventually every bear and bull will be correct. That does not mean they are psychic or a brilliant RE analyst."

jason, couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, some among us yearn for coddling and pats on the back incessantly. Odd.

JuiceMan, what's most hilarious is swe did the very thing he's criticizing you for with the stock market - he told everyone to buy when the DOW was at the bottom! Hell of a call, especially when it's made after it improved.

bjw, I think swe was surprised by what I actually said three years ago vs. what he has claimed I said. I'm still chuckling about it, ruined his day I bet.

could be a temporary reprieve....
I'll speak with the warden

It reminds me of the "Jean Dixon's predictions for this year came true - see the shocking details inside" and similar in various tabloid rags. At the beginning of the year, these "psychics" make 10,000 "out there" predictions (like a list of almost every hot celebrity dying, getting divorced, drug overdose, etc.) and of course SOME of them come true, so they publish those and claim how amazing the predictions were.

PS to jason10006: BING!!!!!!!! give that man a Kewpie doll !!!

"eventually every bear and bull will be correct."

Actually, thats just not true.

"That does not mean they are psychic or a brilliant RE analyst."

Of course not... but it doesn't mean some folks aren't right, and some folks are.

"The correction had not started, in fact prices were still going up at the beginning of 2008 or did you conveniently forget this?"

The stock market had, juice. Sorry.

"C'mon swe, you can do it. Admit defeat. No leg = can stand."

Juice, you not reading your own quotes?

I love it.

"Goodness. Nothing like pissing in a buyers cornflakes eh? MMAfia, suppose you are right and the market corrects more than it already has. What percentage do you believe it would correct? 5-10%? Condos in prime UWS or Gramercy? Not going to happen."

And you're STILL claiming you called 10% down before the crash. I love it!

"bjw, I think swe was surprised by what I actually said three years ago vs. what he has claimed I said"

Yes, I was surprised.... I know you've made some bad calls, but I didn't think you'd lie.

I was COMPLETELY surprised that you claimed you said the opposite of what you did.

"I'm still chuckling about it, ruined his day I bet."

Loving it.

You try to BRAG about your call, just live Steve, and just like Steve, you said the opposite.

You are quite a pair!

> C'mon swe, you can do it. Admit defeat. No leg = can stand.

Come on, juice, you can do it! Come on, now, admit it!

"NOT GONNA HAPPEN!" you said... then it does.

Come on juice, you can do it!

"Goodness. Nothing like pissing in a buyers cornflakes eh? MMAfia, suppose you are right and the market corrects more than it already has. What percentage do you believe it would correct? 5-10%? Condos in prime UWS or Gramercy? Not going to happen."

LMAO!

Those last 5 posts are eerily reminiscent of Kelly's breakdown on Real Housewives. Cringe-inducing.

what a surprise... humpy dog still posting!

lmao

What a surprise, you're still unoriginal and frothing at the mouth!

juice, I'm glad you can find humor in your own mistakes!

and, bjw, still going. He'll literally response to ANYTHING! nice life...

"Goodness. Nothing like pissing in a buyers cornflakes eh? MMAfia, suppose you are right and the market corrects more than it already has. What percentage do you believe it would correct? 5-10%? Condos in prime UWS or Gramercy? Not going to happen."

LMAO!

"On the professional vs. non-professional thing, let me let you in on a little secret, they all basically just want mostest money. On the renter side, they all bascially want to pay the leastest money."
Inonada schools printer.