what is penalty for cancelling/terminating lease?

We just got out of one in a co-op. It cost 7K with all the fees. Would have cost 6K if we had never moved in. THis totally varies depending on where you are the building. The landlords can however, take you on quite a ride if there are no provisions in your lease.

You are on the hook for 12 times the monthly rent, no more, no less. If you refuse, you need to meet whatever penalties your landlord imposes on you, or be ready to have your credit history ruined.

I don’t know if this is law or now, but my understanding is that you are on the hook for the lease until the landlord is able to find a new tenant, but that the landlord must make a good faith effort to find a new tenant. Presumably you would also be liable for broker fees as applicable.

New York law does not require residential landlords to mitigate their tenants damages by re=renting.

none of you are correct. if you haven't move in ("taken possession") than you aren't liable at all.

Jim-hones10 - wrong -prove you're right - once the lease is signed and consideration is given it's a binding contract. I charge my tenants a 2 month break lease fee in the summer - in the winter I charge 4 months - I believe I'm pretty standard. You may want to try and sublet the place - the law allows you the right to sublet regardless of what your lease says.

Tiger, you simply must ask an attorney to know the right answer given your lease, but in the meantime ask your landlord. I'm a landlord, I would let you off the hook relatively easily because no matter what the law says, going to court is expensive. I would rather work out something with you and have you agree to it and then go our separate merry ways. However I'm very small potatoes; a major entity is going to have lawyers on tap, but they are also going to have a standard policy for your situation, because they face it regularly. Good luck!

Karla Harby
Charles Rutenberg Realty
kharby@crrnyc.com

Jimhones, WRONG, but tenant friendly. What will your business partners think? Maybe you'll have to switch sides after all. Congrats!

And yes, kharby2's totally correct.

all of you are wrong. prove otherwise. landlords may hold the money, and cause a stink, etc, but in the end, if you go to court, you'll win. and get your money back.
it has nothing to do with being tenant friendly or not, it just is what it is.

Jim, I can't find any supporting evidence for your claim that the tenant is off the hook if they haven't moved in yet.

I think you may be confusing this with the requirement that landlords have the apartment available on the agreed-upon date; if the landlord fails to do that, the tenant can break the lease without penalty. But it sounds like Tiger's apartment is indeed available.

I looked it up on the official NYC website. You can read about it here:

http://gothamcityhomes.posterous.com/yes-you-can-cancel-your-new-york-city-leaseho

i've read that. but what my understanding is is this: if you never move in (ie. "take possession") than the lease is never validated.

I think jim_hones10 is confusing the tenant's obligation in that situation with the LL's obligation to pay the little rental broker in that situation ... it becomes truly "no fee".

alan, don't weigh in on things that are over your head. i'm actually embarassed for you

Jumbo Jim. Really? Mister I don't do anything but sit in a corner office with my knockoff sunglasses. Really?

your confusing your threads cc.

And he rides the buses.

So...you only sit in the corner office doing nothing on the other thread? Which thread do you take the bus on?

alan hart and cc must take magic carpet rides to the office. i don't really see what is so interesting about taking public transportation to work in manhattan. does the 4.5.6 subway line make it cooler?

Once lease is signed, both LL and T are bound. Delivery of possession is a seperate issue and good any LL will exclude this as it is not mandated in NY (must be excluded in lease or LL must delievr possession). There is no duty to mitigate in NY so T is on the hook for the whole amount. This is the law. Period. T can sublet and if LL does't allow this then lease can be broken.

jim, you don't know the law so STFU.

Are you an attorney? Landlord? Ever been in the middle of one of something like this? You fucking cocksucker? Noi abbreviations for me.

i think that you think you know what you are talking about, but have no real experience here.

Authority for the proposition that "Well-settled law in this state imposes no duty on a residential landlord to mitigate damages.":

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8404069308019360299

If you have valid authority for the opposite in any situation, please cite it.

Didn't the Brooqueens court rule the other way on this?

Don't know. Alan, can you provide a Google Scholar link to it?

ephraim2
about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
report abuse Authority for the proposition that "Well-settled law in this state imposes no duty on a residential landlord to mitigate damages.":

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8404069308019360299

If you have valid authority for the opposite in any situation, please cite it.

thats great, but doesn't prove anything. my understanding is that is you never move in, the lease is not valid. i see nothing in your link that proves otherwise

Jim,

Here's cases generally standing for the proposition that once a party signs a lease, that party is bound to it, regardless of whether the party moves in:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14672271379356577671

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9807751792664713023

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3845214660514872312

My understanding of the above cases is that a lease is a contract, like any other, that requires both parties to perform the contract. If you have any evidence that a lease contract may be unilaterally rendered invalid should the tenant choose not to take possession of the leased property, I suggest that you find a cite confirming that proposition.

Jim, suppose you find a tenant for my place today, and we sign a lease for Aug 1, I get a deposit and 1st month's rent. The tenant fails to move in. Meanwhile, time has passed when I could have found another tenant, the apartment was empty, etc. Your advice to me is to return the first month's rent and deposit, not pursue any other remedy, because the lease is invalid???

Have you ever read the standard REBNY lease? I would have thought that every NYC broker has had to have come across it many times in a career, and I'd imagine one who was good at their job would have read through and understood it. In it, it states that if the tenant fails to take possession after 15 days of start date, landlord may choose to cancel the lease after 10 days with written notice. In doing so, the lease is terminated, and the landlord may relet the place. Any amounts due for the unexpired term of the lease are still owed, subject to law (which I take to mean that relet rents are credited, maybe a right to sublet, etc.).

Every lease I've ever read ihas a failure to take possession clause. What lease form do you use?

The landlord has no obligation to mitigate. The tenant will be in default for not taking posession after the 15 day period, but the landlord can keep the tenant on the hook for the full $ balance of the lease.

Now, that is rarely practical, which is why with that as worst case, the post by kharby2 (and also Jazzman) is the more likely scenario. But not the guaranteed scenario.

Bottom line, you can't just walk away from a lease by not moving in. Jim was wrong ... but tenant friendly! Thanks Jim.

I have broken 2 leases and it didn't cost me a dime in either case. You have to learn to talk to to an LL and "work with them". Once I decided i had enough but still had like 9 mo. or what ever on lease; learn to bitch and moan about every little thing constantly. Say you want out; give 2 months notice; let them show the place etc. and pay nothing. they'll be glad to rid themselves of you and you'll be glad you left.

Stick, entirely correct in that you "have to learn to talk to a LL and work with them". Sometimes you can get away with nothing, sometimes that isn't the case. The lease and the law are on the landlord's side, but most sides are practical and meet somewhere in the middle, especially if they were glad to rid themselves of you (for whatever reason)!

agreed - talk with the LL. Some of them will milk you for everything they can, and others will let you off the hook if you can quickly find another tenant. In either case, once the lease is signed, it is your responsibility to make sure the rent is paid for the remainder of the lease. We consulted a lawyer on this subject and were told to do what it takes to make the LL happy, otherwise it would take forever to resolve and would cost us both a lot of $. Luckily, it's summer, so finding a new tenant shouldn't be that difficult.

inonada
about 12 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse Jim, suppose you find a tenant for my place today, and we sign a lease for Aug 1, I get a deposit and 1st month's rent. The tenant fails to move in. Meanwhile, time has passed when I could have found another tenant, the apartment was empty, etc. Your advice to me is to return the first month's rent and deposit, not pursue any other remedy, because the lease is invalid???

Have you ever read the standard REBNY lease? I would have thought that every NYC broker has had to have come across it many times in a career, and I'd imagine one who was good at their job would have read through and understood it. In it, it states that if the tenant fails to take possession after 15 days of start date, landlord may choose to cancel the lease after 10 days with written notice. In doing so, the lease is terminated, and the landlord may relet the place. Any amounts due for the unexpired term of the lease are still owed, subject to law (which I take to mean that relet rents are credited, maybe a right to sublet, etc.).

Every lease I've ever read ihas a failure to take possession clause. What lease form do you use?

do you have to be a dick about it? i've used the standard rebny lease, both blumgerg's etc.
i have had a client back out AFTER lease was signed by both parties and money had changed hands but before the client had moved in. this was with a big name landlord.
have you ever had this happen?

Lamer and lamer.

Every lease I've ever read ihas a failure to take possession clause. What lease form do you use?

Ours was a standard co-op lease and this was not a clause in it.

i think what isn't understood here is that if you never move in (take possession) some judges might decide that you don't have a valid lease. period.

Matt loves to say period.

Jim, which landlord do you represent? You realize that you offering a nonstandard perk, maybe you can attract some tenants with that landlord unfriendly advocacy of yours. Thanks again!

how is it a perk? most people sign leases and turn over chcks because they want the apartment. not to waste anyone's time. and i am not saying that you wouldnt be in for fight to get your money back.

talking to yourself again.

cc, are you senile? read the post before mine.

i can read.

and i know how many of you there are.

too many.

Wait, so I'm Jim?

columbiacounty, you've got as many problems as Jim.

as the english say, he's lost the plot

yep...you got me...all one of you.

and i'll give you a run down of a couple of problems i have right now splaken:

1. berkshires or zip out to see my brother in boulder co for the 4th of july holiday

2. should we just go for it and make the nanny a full-time live in? it makes sense....

well..which of you is coming back at me?

hard to decide?

columbiacounty, when have I attacked you?

so...do you use tabs or separate machines?

Ok you are crazy.

thou protesteth too much.

Ok

splaken, you are treating him like a crazy person on the subway. tell him to go be quiet and go fuck himself. there are a lot more sane people here who will back you up.

Hold on.. You've told us so proudly how you don't travel on the subway.

oh shit you got me. i think what i said is i like to spend as little time on the subway as possible. i've lived here a long time. i've been on the subway, lunatic

so be quiet, and shut the fuck up.

"do you have to be a dick about it? i've used the standard rebny lease, both blumgerg's etc.
i have had a client back out AFTER lease was signed by both parties and money had changed hands but before the client had moved in. this was with a big name landlord.
have you ever had this happen?"

Apologies for sounding like a dick. This has never happened to me. What did the landlord do: just give back the money? Didn't the landlord care that the place was going to be empty for some time as the result of non-performance? Was there some sort of termination agreement?

jim_hones10
6 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse Are you an attorney? Landlord? Ever been in the middle of one of something like this? You fucking cocksucker? Noi abbreviations for me.

yes to 1, yes to 2, yes to 3.

Will the next idiot please step forward.

lol

"yes to 1, yes to 2, yes to 3."

OK, but what about the fourth question?

oh boy