Miami

If it requires the 'scraping together' of funds I might think twice about doing this deal. I don't know the Miami market well myself, but even experts are rarely able to call bottom. Don't ever assume prices won't fall further. They may not, but best to expect, and prepare for, the worst.

There is a huge back up of foreclosures coming in Miami/Dade county. The courts are overwhelmed plus the robo signing mess hit FL hard so it is another cause of backup. So it is predicted that FL prices could come down another 7% this year -- i just read the report but can't remember who published it. Schiller? Zillow? I thought I bought close to bottom two years ago (from a selller who defaulted) but am down 15%. It would be down more if I wasn't right on the beach. Recently, there has been a lot of selling of beachfront property due to robust stock market and a huge influx of Brazillions. ;)

That said, if you property is on the water you will have some cushion. Banks are not selling waterfront property, they are holding it and renting it out. You might be able to get a good deal and if you have a long time horizon, it might be a good purchase but I suggest if this is a tight squeeze for you, you should really do some homework.

Short sales can be a pain in the ass. Be prepared for delays. The bank has to approve the sale. If you are buying with a mortgage be prepared for extensions. No free lunch..You'll have to earn the discount.
---
Keep in mind banks are wary. Lots of short sale fraud has occurred with brokers bidding below market and then flipping, which the banks are none to happy about. And short sales at below market prices hurt property values.. the appraisers don't know the transactions are bogus.

Looking to purchase too, thus need a referral for a good short/foreclosure broker/lawyer who is handling sales in South Beach. Any help will be appreciated.

Bought a few months ago and glad I did. After this winter, lots of people will be heading south.

I am thinking of Miami as well. I am looking at 2 or 3 BR oceanfront condo at a higher price point. I don't think it's any great bargain, but prices have come down some since " the recession". Love the idea of using it as a weekend home even in summer.

Florida is recovering, prices are going up. That studio used to be $50K. Investors are coming in with all cash and buying single family homes for $150K, it's the same scenario as the original bubble, but the prices are 1/4 of what they used to be. Really good short sales and foreclosures are going to these investors who are flipping stuff. They will sell that studio for $120K. Builders, for some god-forsaken reason, are building again and they're selling. There are still deals, but you missed the bottom.

Don't be so sure about renting it. The rental market is saturated. Really nice 2 bed condos are renting for $500. Renters in Miami tend to be very spotty as well. If it were me, I would look into Key Biscayne and some of the smaller upscale neighborhoods first. Better long-term prospects. Also, Miami has an EXTREMELY high crime rate in some areas. There are some gang-riddled neighborhoods, so be careful.

Be careful with condos. I toured one, a 2/2 for $55K (3 years ago) but the entire building was compromised. Without tenants, the building's water and electricity had been turned off, and there was a huge back bill sitting out there. If we had purchased the unit, we would have to wait for the whole building to be occupied to get electricity. We walked up the stairs to see the third floor unit. Beautiful unit, brand new. This 5 story building was one of many in the complex, only a couple of which were "on". Later, investors came in and bought entire buildings, for around $35K per unit, now they're renting for $500 each.

Some of this stuff is not suited for single unit purchasers. The stuff that is, is priced accordingly.

I don't know a broker, but if it's a foreclosure you will have to use the bank-assigned buyer's broker anyway. Most realty offices won't even look at you without cash, the good stuff goes really fast, within 48 hours. It doesn't seem like it, but try actually buying a unit or two and you'll see what I mean.

I had a friend who bought 12 single family homes in the Ft Myers area (not Lehigh Acres- that place is a mess). He bought them all for under $60K ea. He painted them, cleaned them up, replaced the stolen appliances and HVAC systems, steamed the carpets and flipped them all for $120-$150K. This was 2-3 years ago. He's complaining because he can't get those deals anymore. The stuff that's left is in bad shape or in bad neighborhoods that no one wants to live in. The fringe neighborhoods are getting worse as cheap renters are moving in.

I like this website for foreclosures, because it's not as full of leins pendens (stuff you can't buy) as Trulia: http://www.floridamoves.com/property/reosearch.aspx
You can also use this site for short sales, looking under property search tab. They are mixed in with regular sales. Consider a regular sale, Florida is horrible for short sales. I had a friend that offered all cash on a $250K short sale (full list). Four years later (no joke-4 years), the bank still refused his short sale offer and turned it over to the foreclosure dept. He walked away, and a year later he found out it sold for $150K. It's a mess, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Regular sales prices are good, because people are competing with foreclosures, and they are not as likely to blow up in your face.

Find the address on that website, then look it up on google maps. It will tell you about the "real estate near this address", so you can see other listings.

If I were looking for a place to retire to, I would look for premier properties around $300-$500K, that used to be around $900K+. Then I would look for a limiting factor: water view, or restricted neighborhood like Key Biscayne or Bal Harbour. On the other coast, I would look at Naples, Sanibel, Captiva. Sanibel is good because they have a development cap of 6,000 units (on an island the size of Manhattan), but their prices are ticking up fast. I would ask what they have for hurricane protection (best is impact glass). I would ask about flood insurance, in a single family it can run up to $4000 per year, easily. And it doesn't cover a property over $250K in value.

Florida is not a homogenous market, it's like Manhattan with bad neighborhoods and great neighborhoods. Just like Manhattan, the best areas are recovering first, and fast (think West Village). The fringe areas have a way to go (think Harlem and Queens).

The Florida market has absolutely hit bottom. All good properties have been sold and sell fast. Prices have not gone down in over a year. Miami is beyond over built. Other areas are much better investments. Bal Harbour, Fort Lauderdale, Boca Raton, Delray Beach, Hyland Beach, Palm Beach. ( Stay on the east cost )

Miami is "beyond overbuilt" but it also has "absolutely hit bottom"? Huh?

@33496: You don't think Sanibel and Captiva (on the east coast) are a good investments? Naples, Bonita Springs, Estero gulf front are all good. Some of the newer properties there are stunning.

I do agree though, Florida market is past the bottom and is ticking up.

FL prices down again

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/business/realestate/housekeys/blog/2011/02/south_florida_home_prices_fall.html

Not sure about "past the bottom"; Case Shiller suggests otherwise. That said, prices in 10-15 yrs are very likely to be higher than where they are now - possibly much higher. My thoughts are:

- If you can pay all cash and can handle the (relatively modest, by NYC standards) carrying costs, consider going forward. There was almost NO mortgage lending on Miami Beach last year.
- If you are on the ocean-side for $90K, you have little downside. If you are on the bay, maybe think twice. In the middle of the island? No way.
- You should be prepared to use this for some years as your cold weather "pied a tierre". If you're expecting quick rental income or price appreciation, invest in something else. But if you think you'll want to use it yourself for 10 yrs and then have some potential upside, by all means, $90K is pretty cheap.

Past the bottom??? Prices are going up??? Maybe the will at some point, but I don't think we're there yet. Here's 2007-present from Case-Shiller for Miami, showing new lows:

MIXR LOW TIER MIDDLE TIER HIGH TIER AGGREGATE
YEAR MONTH (Under $148708) ($148708 - $255089) (Over $255089) (Overall Market)
2007 1 337.59 292.3 255.76 279.42
2007 2 339.51 292.23 255.67 279.43
2007 3 341.13 288.13 254.22 276.89
2007 4 336.99 283.56 252.08 273.53
2007 5 332.38 282.46 247.86 269.52
2007 6 325.57 280.08 243.41 264.89
2007 7 323.64 276.92 238.98 260.39
2007 8 319.7 270.3 235.64 255.29
2007 9 320.73 263.47 230.36 249.61
2007 10 313.04 260.04 224.75 244.35
2007 11 312.28 254.59 217.15 237.99
2007 12 303.29 247.12 212.85 231.71
2008 1 300.95 237.76 207.55 225.4
2008 2 286.14 231.03 202.56 218.74
2008 3 264.19 220.89 194.56 208.88
2008 4 246.41 209.49 189.11 200.42
2008 5 231.71 199.26 183.86 193.19
2008 6 222.84 193.3 181.86 189.87
2008 7 214.64 189.63 179.49 186.84
2008 8 203.55 186.27 176.66 183.48
2008 9 193.32 182.93 171.75 178.72
2008 10 184.48 178.18 166.36 173.42
2008 11 181.05 173.51 162.58 169.62
2008 12 176.2 167.83 158.45 165.01
2009 1 167.95 160.84 153.3 158.97
2009 2 162.62 154.73 149.61 154.23
2009 3 149.44 150.53 144.41 148.75
2009 4 140.91 147.15 142.31 145.78
2009 5 135.51 145.85 141.76 144.59
2009 6 132.34 146.07 143.44 145.38
2009 7 133.21 146.97 145.92 147.27
2009 8 133.43 147.77 148.86 148.91
2009 9 134.19 147.46 150.14 149.69
2009 10 134.85 147.36 149.81 149.09
2009 11 136.59 147.09 149.96 149.08
2009 12 139.21 146.83 149.28 148.66
2010 1 138.55 145.48 149.6 148.32
2010 2 137.17 146.1 147.84 147.52
2010 3 133.22 142.59 147.5 146.15
2010 4 131.33 141.68 146.78 145.04
2010 5 132.2 142.79 148.31 146.33
2010 6 133.82 144.16 148.6 146.92
2010 7 133.02 144.15 149.68 147.88
2010 8 131.59 144.18 149.47 147.47
2010 9 129.71 142.8 147.5 145.64
2010 10 127.52 141.7 145.57 144.03
2010 11 127 140.12 145.7 143.81
2010 12 123.15 139.76 145.34 143.11

Question for you, apt23. Why is it, do you think, that you don't have your head up your ass w.r.t. where things stand compared to so many others that own a piece of property? I'm sure you wish things were up just like anyone else, but you are quite candid about where things stand now and where things might be headed. What makes you different?

Yeah, apt23, get your head up your ass ... nobody likes smart people.

And for some others, an old adage: A rising tide erodes all beaches.

Bonus adage: And soon enough the little Gulf islands in their entirety.

Ino: I know from working with a lot of different financial advisors that there is really only one truth: The game is rigged. I do a lot of reading in an effort to try to understand exactly how the game is rigged so I can invest on the periphery. The more I read, the more I realize that the big gamers find invaluable ways to avoid paying dues just when the cumuppance seems inevitable.

I know that anyone can find a great opportunity. Therefore I know there are people who bought at the top of RE market who will still be golden -- or they have enough money that they just don't care. But the majority of people who bought at the top are going to suffer losses. For people on the outside looking in, I am perpetually nervous. They are usually the last ones in the pool and they get soaked -- in every sense. The big gamers depend on their entry into the market so they can fob all their risk onto the uninformed.

There are opportunities in Miami. I just made a call about a beachfront property yesterday. But if you have to scrape your money together to buy cause your buddy is bragging about his own financial acumen -- I want to make sure you gag on a million ways it can go wrong before you decide.

If you had a million to invest in Miami condo where would you buy?
Only interested in safe nabes.
Don't need rental income. just looking for weekend getaway so New York winter is tolerable.
Thinking 2 BR, 2 Bath

You can get a great 2/2 right on the ocean for less than a million. I would avoid South Beach. It is crowded. A great place to visit but traffic is terrible. Just north of south beach is great all the way up to Bal Harbor. I would avoid Sunny Isles and Aventura. The marketing in Sunny Isles was suspect since it was so overbuilt. Some beautiful buildings but I think there will be lots of defaults/tenant problems in the future.

That's exactly where I was thinking! Do you know North beach at all? South Beach is waay too chaotic for me. Am looking for an upscale and solid building on the ocean. Thanks apt23

Fort lauderdale is a better alternative and you can go to south beach for dinner....you can get nice 2 bed condos on the beach near or on Las Olas in the mid 200s......you dont even need close to a million.

Anyone have any ideas about the Sarasota area - Lido, Longboat Keys, etc as it relates to beach front vacation properties? Nice town, good restaurants, great sunsets.

realestated: take a look at the $1.7MM apt in The Caribbean. The area missed the revival but this apt was done will all high end everything --lutron lighting, audio, automatic drapes, shades, a fabulous view on a quiet stretch of beach. I'm sure you can get that apt for much much less but you have to investigate the finances of building that i know nothing about. Then take a look at Fountainebleu. The building has financial problems but there are short sales and foreclosures aplenty in the building. You can put the apts in the rental pool but I wouldn't count on that. Just buy as low as you can and wait several years for market recovery. But again, not sure about the bankruptcy issues. Also, Canyon Ranch has issues but Lehman Bros bought out the developers for low dollars and apparently apt sales are hopping. I went to a party there during Art Basel and the apts and hotel were beautiful. Again, there are apparently building issues you will have to investigate. Apparently One Bal Harbour has a lot of beautiful apts. Finally the St Regis is opening in Bal Harbour. They are asking crazy prices. They have obviously had problems with loans because it has taken years to build. They have to be hurting and might be open to low ball bids but again, real research is needed.

It is an hour from Ft Lauderdale to South Beach --- if the traffic is not bad.

Oops, realestated, forgot you were looking at under a million. There are many, many beachfront buildings you can get 2/2's under that price. In my list, One Bal harbor, canyon ranch, fountainbleu have 2/2's under a million. Any of the recent big buildings on the beach are in the price range. I like Kevin Tomlinson as a real estate agent. He knows this area well and he lists the foreclosures and short sales.

Again, 23 thanks. Any ideas what Canyon Ranch 'building" issues might be?
My range could be over a million, but I would like to keep property taxes down...
If I saw the perfect 3BR and the price was right...
Bal Harbor seems a little enclavey. I think it's a beautiful spot though.
Do you have a place in Florida?
Would you use a place to fly back and forth for short "pick me up" stays?
I'm wrestling with the idea. Mom says, keep your money and stay in a nice hotel, but...

If you are going to invest in South Florida Boca Raton and Fort Lauderdale are much better places to invest condo wise than the Aventura to Miami areas. In Boca check out Mizner Tower, Mizner Grand, Toscana, 1000 Ocean. For Ft. Lauderdale The Palms, L' Hermitage, Las Olas Beach Club, & Coconut Grove Condos are the best. Tax shelter? Find a condo specialist and not some random agent. They will know the best inventory for you.

Don't know the Canyon Ranch issues other than what I read in a Commercial Biz paper -- the developers went belly up and the loan holder, Lehman Bros took over, buying the remainder of apts at something low --was it is the $600 range. Whatever it was it did not seem low for miami but was apparently low for the property.

Yes I own in Miami and I love it. I come down for long weekends and holidays all the time. I would visit various buildings with a professional. I found out the scoop on my building by hanging out on the beach and talking to the owners. After talking to about six, I started to come up with a consensus of the problems. All buildings in a recession have some problems. My building is managing the tides fairly well.

apt23 when did you buy in miami? are you in sobe?

Again, start your search here:

http://www.floridamoves.com

The good stuff is ticking up, don't dismiss the west coast, with less erosion issues. When you're looking for a condo, be sure to ask these questions:

"Was the sand replenished recently?" YOU will pay the next time it needs to be done.

"What kind of hurricane protection does the building have?"

"Any Chinese drywall in this structure?"

"How many units are in foreclosure in this building?"

"How are the reserves for the homeowner's fees? How many units are in arrears?"

"You should really consider Boca...you should really consider Naples".

LOL. Those places are as different from Miami as New Jersey is from Manhattan! If you think you want to buy a place in FL, what you really "ought" to do is rent for a season or two down there, learn the different neighborhoods and cities, and determine what is best for you. Naples is for retired Canadian and mid-western wasps, Boca is full of NY jews, Miami is far more hispanic than you realize and Ft. Lauderdale is the "white bread" equivalent of Miami. These places couldn't be more different! And each has neighborhoods that also have their own character. Coconut Grove in Miami has a bohemian feel, Key Biscayne very family-oriented and very white bread, South Beach is, well, South Beach, but Mid-Beach (particularly Millionaire's Row) is South Beach for Adults.

Don't let SE's resident realt-whores try to steer you to this site or another, or tell you "values are going UP!" (they aren't, and won't for years ...no credit to be found in South Florida and cash sales alone can't undo the damage). South Florida is a beautiful place; SEE FOR YOURSELF.

p.s. For my money I'd pick Coconut Grove - 15 minutes to Key Biscayne or South Beach, a charming downtown and an equally charming bayside waterfront.

Futher to my last point, VRBO has some LOVELY short-term rentals in the various Miami neighborhoods; any of them would give you a vantage point to explore local neighborhoods.

http://www.vrbo.com/vacation-rentals/usa/florida/south-east/miami-beach

I agree with Dwayne

There are so many different "neighborhoods". It's like UES versus Brooklyn, that's how different they are.

Plenty of weekly condos, monthly houses, to rent.

chelapt. Bought in 2008. Am mid way between South Beach and Bal Harbor

im thinking of purchasing in fort lauderdale eventually......its like a very very very mild version of south beach...with some great deals and beautiful beachfront condos....esp near las olas..

Never understood the appeal of ft lauderdale. In most areas, there's the water, a hundred feet of sand, and then a 4 lane highway. Not what I would call natural beauty.

To me, Miami Beach is Manhattan and everything else is just another borough. I love Miami Beach. I love Manhattan. All in all a great life.

Agree w/ "needs advice" on Ft. Lauderdale. Las Olas is OK (though DEAD during the day), but the strip (1A/ Beach Blvd) is cheesy, cheesy, cheesy!

Apt23: You're clearly a newbie to South Florida if you think Miami Beach is "Manhattan and everything else is just another borough". Miami Beach is for tourists, mostly, and snowbirds, second. When I lived in Miami full-time (I split my time now), locals rarely went to South Beach for that very reason (didn't want to hang that much w/ New Yorkers, pale midwestern tourists, gays, hip-hoppers, strippers, and freaks). Mid-beach is a much better bet, North Beach also. Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, Pinecrest, Coco Plum, Key Biscayne is where the local money wanted to be. As the OP is, in fact, looking to be a snowbird, it might not be a bad choice for him/her, though Mid-Beach would be better (assuming he's over the age of 35 and straight). But it's HARDLY "manhattan" and those other places "outer boroughs". More likely, you've just never been there. Which is a shame, because most of what is great about south florida requires you to get OFF Miami Beach. The Everglades, Fairchild Gardens, Oleta park (where you can kayak next to Dolphins), the Keys, etc - ALL require you to temporarily leave the freak show known as Miami Beach.

Dwayne: My place is mid beach/northbeach area and I love that area. I agree about south beach and only go there to show visitors. i have been to many of the places you list though not all. But for me, Art Basel, the symphony, the arts center and all the great contemporary art museums-- not to mention some incredible restaurants, etc. are very accessible from miami beach.............and you have THE BEACH. I looked in Coral Gables and my friends live there. I didn't like Key Biscayne. I prefer where I am. But never been to Coco Plum.

apt23's place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5NEutSRuG8

@Alan: That is a hilarious video!!!!

miami real estate is like new york real estate. you can buy on 35th street and the east river, or you can buy a mint soho loft. good stuff in short sale or foreclosure is gone fast. bad stuff sits. i suggest you visit and spend some time locally if it's a stretch to $90k since you're not familiar with the area for your own use or for investment. don't forget any condo maintenance fees and ~2% property tax. south beach on the west side on the intercoastal is very residential and you can easily rent your property. it's where you get the best views of the city and sunsets. it's young families and young professionals. south of fifth and the venetian islands are the best areas. tourists are mainly on the east side on the ocean. locals rarely go except for jogging or use of the beach. any waterfront house on miami beach will retain value. south beach commands the highest prices generally for what you're getting. mid-beach is very residential and tends to be a mix of families, orthodox jews (they are good tenants and buyers), and old timer floridians. it's had a big revival with the fountainbleau, eden roc, and soho house completions. it's also generally cheaper than south beach. also, ian schrager is looking at beachfront buildings in this area. coconut grove close to downtown and the design distrcit. it's fun and hippy-dippy, with cute old florida homes. key biscayne is very beautiful and has a private beach community feel. good luck.

dwayne_pipe is right in that a lot of my "local" friends (people who grew up in florida) do not go to south beach much. maybe they go to eat, walk around south pointe park, etc., but it's like an activity, not a regular thing. if you LIVE in miami, being on miami beach can be very inconvenient because there is traffic to get on and off the beach and a lot of the better non-touristy restaurants (and your friends) will live on the miami mainland.

that said, apt23 is thinking correctly like a person who is there part-time coming from new york. if you go on the weekends or as a snowbird only, then being on the beach is the best. you can walk places and you don't really have to leave miami beach if you don't want to.

hope this helps and is less inflammatory than some of the other posts. one thing i'll point out is that sellers in florida are much more negotiable than in new york. also, it's cheaper to buy than to rent in many instances. do your own research.

for local agent, i liked deanna marie jurgens of trust group realty 305-335-9867, also julian johnston of sterling equity realty 305-804-4848. for lawyer (foreclosure, short sale, or otherwise), i like steve baird 305-754-8170.

"Ino: I know from working with a lot of different financial advisors that there is really only one truth: The game is rigged. I do a lot of reading in an effort to try to understand exactly how the game is rigged so I can invest on the periphery. The more I read, the more I realize that the big gamers find invaluable ways to avoid paying dues just when the cumuppance seems inevitable. "

She's mad. That's it. Delusional. Think about it, her oft-repeated premise is that there is some secret knowledge that shows how things will be. Laughable.

" For people on the outside looking in, I am perpetually nervous."

She's mad.

Hfscomm1 has returned. How awful.

I wonder if Libya has nice beaches.

inonada
3 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse Question for you, apt23. Why is it, do you think, that you don't have your head up your ass w.r.t. where things stand compared to so many others that own a piece of property? I'm sure you wish things were up just like anyone else, but you are quite candid about where things stand now and where things might be headed. What makes you different?

barf.......double barf

"What makes you different?" .....hilarious question......

Hfscomm1 is foaming at the mouth.

Yuck.

now, come on, alanart, do you really condone inane obsequiousness (oops..is that sp right?)

Hfscomm1 has to go.

I represent One Bal Harbour and Canyon Ranch Miami Beach here in NYC. If you would like more info on either of these two developments please shoot me an email. Oalexander@elliman.com

Hey Oren - if we wanted to be surrounded by Realt-whores, we'd go to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. Or maybe a bankruptcy clinic, given the state of the market the past couple of years. GO SHILL YOUR CRAP SOMEWHERE ELSE!

AA meeting?

Alanhart: Let's bring back Surfside 6!!! Hilarious. But I'm afraid Miami Vice will forever live in TV executive's hearts. And btw, I grew up in Libya and the beaches are fantastic there. Deliciously clean Mediterranean with lava reefs. No commerce on the beaches so the waters are not polluted at all.

Hopeful: thanks for the interesting, informative point of view. Do you know where exactly Ian Schrager is looking. Soho House in Miami is fabulous.

apt23, I had no idea about the Libya connection!!! And the beach thing was just a hunch ... Libya has never been on my travel list (I know virtually nothing about it), but its neighbor Tunisia has been, and it's supposed to have great beaches.

The Wikipedia tells us that in Surfside 6, Margarita Sierra (a ridiculous enough name to begin with) played Cha Cha O'Brien, a nightclub entertainer at The Boom Boom Room in the Fontainebleau!

As for Miami Vice, my favorite thing about it was that it inspired a product marketed (I think only on TV direct-order spots ... act now!) as The Miami Device, giving the perfect five o'clock shadow every time. I'm surprised a similar one wasn't revived a few years ago (or maybe it was ... I don't discuss lack of grooming with Williamsburghers and the like).

buyerbuyer, spelling correct, but I'm not sure it means what you think it does. Obsequious means servile. Am I supposed to be condoning columbiacounty's inane servile behavior/attitude? Libya's? apt23's? Elaborate.

Qaddifi's?

It's been widely reported that Shrager is involved with the much delayed Seville project on 30th street (next to The Palms one of my favorite low key Sobe hotels). Just took a bunch of pictures of the sadly cool totally derelict Seville a few weeks ago.

What's up with all the fires? Strategic, or accidental?

alanh-- I meant obseq. in the sense of cringe-inducing, fawning and flattery. The example was ino's "question" to apt23 about what means her so, well, wonderful. I think I thought "libya's beaches" was clearly code for the waves of hysteria in apt23's crainial region crashing on the shores of her keyboard and washing up in streeteasy "talk", but I'm below the equator right now so maybe I got your intention backwards or worse; if so, my apologies.

"makes her so,," I meant to say.

is there anyone on this site that doesn't know that buyerbuyer is the hsf troll?

Aren't you the lady who said that people have a moral obligation not to buy real estate? You are completely nuts!

Yawn. Apt 23, if you're going to tell the world that "big gamers" have everything "rigged" ("there is really only one truth: The game is rigged."), please elaborate -- who, how, what do they have planned next. It's tantalizing to know that some group is pulling strings but not be told more about them.

What a nutcase, she claimed buying real estate was like being a smoker.

but you're talking back and forth with yourself.

you win the nutcase award hands down.

Upon further investigation, I have decided that my Latino beach dream home will be in Punta del Este, not Miami. It has a Miami type hi-rise part (on a nice setting jutting out into the sea), and miles and miles of spectacularly beautiful naturaleza, wide beaches, beautiful homes, all clean, all delovely. It's impressive.

Mr. Pipe What are your thoughts on West Palm and the surrounding area? Thinking of buying a small house to get out of these NYC winters. Just came back from Miami, 39th and Collins, loved it! Sobe for dinners, great pizza at Frattelli and a fun night at Joes crab. Weather was perfect.

I don't know that much of Palm Beach and West Palm, other than their are FABULOUS antique shops and antique auctions in WPB. At reasonable prices (lots of elderly wealthy people living and, more to the point, DYING their, so lots of estate auctions). So if you need to furnish a place in South Florida and are partial to antiques, WPB is the place to be. Avoid the antique shops on Worth Ave in PB - museum quality antiques but WAAAAAY too pricey.

Otherwise, I don't know much about PB and WPB. PB seems very staid and wealthy to me. As Charlie Sheen would say, "BORING. Losers. I'm WINNING. Buh-bye!".

"Upon further investigation, I have decided that my Latino beach dream home will be in Punta del Este"

Wherezit?

Punta, or del Este, as it is apparently reffered to, by the them-that-know crowd is the beautiful people resort area in Uruguay. I was skeptical about any hi-rise type beach, but it is honestly stunningly beautiful. Prices to match (well, at least 50% more expensive than Buenos Aires for everything). But the setting is magnificent. And so convenient to NY....

Furnishing a spiffy modern condo with antiques seems sort of out of kilter (is that a word) to me.

BB: I've done it several times and the contrast looks stunning! Think of the IM PEI triangle next to the Louvre. Admittedly its not for everyone, only those with imagination. But generally speaking, a high-quality antique, like a beautiful woman, looks good in any setting...

Actually, I agree with you about antiques in a modern condo. I really meant to say it seemed out of place to me a bit with my idea of Miami glitz in particular, but I'm sure it could work anywhere.

"Upon further investigation, I have decided that my Latino beach dream home will be in Punta del Este, not Miami."

That is dumb. In Guatemala, foreigners cannot own property next to the ocean.

http://www.property-guatemala.com.ar/property_transaction_costs_fees_guatemala.html

And are you really interested in trying to figure out the real estate market in a foreign country? Seriously?

@KEITH: "Mr. Pipe What are your thoughts on West Palm and the surrounding area? Thinking of buying a small house to get out of these NYC winters. Just came back from Miami, 39th and Collins, loved it!"

If you enjoyed Miami at 39th and Collins, why do you even begin to imagine that West Palm would be the same? If you liked that area, buy there.

West Palm is only good east of the intercoastal waterway. You can look west of the intercoastal, but be sure it's a gated, high-end community. There are a lot of marginal areas there.

Avoid CDD's (community development districts), their fees make NYC look cheap. The upside of a house in FL is that maintenance of a lawn is about $85 a month, and a pool is about $100. If you buy in a resort town, you can rent it out seasonally when you are not there, sometimes completely covering all of your carrying costs.

KeithB: My sister lives in the West Palm/Jupiter area --had homes in both places. She loves raising her kids there. And the kids love it there -- though lots of school problems if you are going there full time with kids. But from my view, it is a rather confined Jimmy Buffet kind of lifestyle. Not so open to transients like weekend NYer's. I had a very social NY girlfriend who had a condo in West Palm with her (older) husband and she couldn't stand it. No restaurants or culture or events to meet her standards. She thought it was a useless trip unless she had a lot of reading to do.

Palm Beach is a very insulated environment for a very wealthy, and often very aspirational group. I also have a friend that lives there and they have some interesting friends (they are serious art collectors and attract a very mixed social group). But imagine if your entire social life was confined exclusively to the denizens of an extremely upscale Park Avenue Co op building. That is my (outsiders) view of Palm Beach. I think I would find it suffocating even if I could afford to travel in those circles.

needsadvice, in Punta del Este (Uruguay), it's a de facto fact that Uruguayans cannot own property near the beach ... it's all owned by Argentinians.

This is the page you meant to link: http://www.property-uruguay.com.ar/

Thanks for the info. WP is simply a financial decision, it's cheap and warm and my wife has a best friend that lives there. I figure I could drive to Miami for some occasional culture, also I will be traveling back to NYC twice a month. I'm a simple guy, have lived it up in NYC for 30 years, so a quiet hammock in my backyard and a good book is what I'm looking for. I also have property in Costa Rica and love the idea that I could fly there in 2.5 hours to get my surf on.

For info on Costa Rica living/Real estate www.welovecostarica.com the forum is great. Pipe before I get your wrath, I am a broker, this site is for informative purposes only, not schilling CR property.lol. though I love it there and will retire there, so if you have questions, call me, I love talking about Costa Rica!

Maybe I'm crazy? But I think I am going to try this, my business model allows for about 75% of my work to be done via phone and email.

buyerbuyer, you have to speak at least one language other than english to roll down in punta del este, you have to be rich enough to look rich and you would have had to gypsy around the world with that crowd for at least one calendar year, to speak their language and know where you are and aren't supposed to be at any given time of the year. all of that is easy enough if you pick up 1 or ideally 2 romance languages and PAY ATTENTION, it's not hard, and they don't make it hard. be vague, be fun, be good looking and you're in.

but don't cross the ladies, they battle with eachother and only with eachother.

dwayne pipe, what happened? antiques, decorating, all the caps, and the WAAAAAAAYs......... 'Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.'

Keith: Then go for it. The beach is beautiful in WP. That weather is very seductive and nothing better than a good morning run/walk along the beach as the sun is rising. Viewing the horizon is a great boon for your health -- not to mention salt air. And there is no better investment in an inflationary environment that cheap RE. Good to know your connection with CR. I thought about CR before I invested in Miami and it just could be by next investment....... But not until the QE free ride ends.

apt23, admitedly, i don't always pay attention, but i thought your camp was against using the words "real estate" and "investment" in the same sentence? and isn't your investment in miami down significantly since you bought, and is expected to continue that way? why are some people torn a new one for calling re an investment, and others get a pass?

keith B, did you know anyone who knew the american grifter killers in costa rica?

I needed that apt23 and could not agree more about the lifestyle and health benefits.

@KEITH: If you like West Palm, then go for it.

Some houses, especially those over $500K, are amazing bargains for what you get for the money. How about something on a canal with a boat in the yard instead of just a hammock? There are gorgeous, bright open houses, pretty new, with stunning views, all selling near or below replacement cost. A limiting factor, like a view or water, or prime location, makes a better investment. One house, among hundreds in a subdivision, is not as solid for investment.

Lucillebluthh. I got the hablo espanol thing down, but having sufficient cash to throw around down in Punta could be a problem. They seem to have lost touch with the proletariat. I'm told there are bohemian little beach towns further up the coast toward Brazil, and plan to try those next trip.

i knew this group of 5 guys who went down that way about 8 years ago for a few months. only 4 came back on schedule. #5 was lost for almost a year, resurfacing in buenos aires where he had been working as a bar tender, only to dissapear again...for 3 more years. came back home, went to business school, got a job, got married, like nothing ever happened. perfectly normal married dude living in the burbs now. true story.

Lucille: Yes my investment is down but I expect that to correct in a relatively short period of time because I am on the ocean and the downturn was also site specific and those issues are being resolved. I did not anticipate the QE excesses--- therefore my purchase was a little early. But because of the QE's, there will continue to be inflation and RE is a good investment in inflationary environment after a huge correction. Manhattan did not experience a huge correction. Florida did. I do expect that Keith who is a realtor knows that all RE is local and there are many issues to determine the best time and location for a buy. I'm sure he is aware of all the foreclosure issues and will factor that in to his purchase decision. That is very different from OP who doesn't know the market or the risk and wants to buy cause his buddy is claiming a killing in the market. Plus he is "scraping" the money together. Keith is buying for lifestyle issues. There are some great deals in Miami/Dade even though the downturn is not over. Not necessarily true in Manhattan.

thank you for answering. just didn't understand why you keep calling them your investments. they're your homes. you made what you thought was an informed intelligent decision when you bought, and will do the same when you buy next time. your dilligence when making your decision shouldn't qualify your purchases as investments. i happen to agree that a home is a lifestyle expense and should be treated as such.

Ok apt23, you justified your investment, but not your moral failings. You'se stated on streeteasy that buying is immoral, and encouraging buying is similar to pushing cigarettes.

Apt23 wrote: "I do expect that Keith who is a realtor knows that all RE is local and there are many issues to determine the best time and location for a buy. I'm sure he is aware of all the foreclosure issues and will factor that in to his purchase decision. That is very different from OP who doesn't know the market or the risk and wants to buy cause his buddy is claiming a killing in the market. Plus he is "scraping" the money together."

Apt23 is serially condescending, and presumes to know what is going to happen in the market. And Apt23 repeats, basically every other thread, her experience losing money in Miami, which, somehow, gives her expertise in telling others what to do. She will yell "toll", because that is what she ALWAYS does when anyone points out her hyperbolic gar-bage.

And, sorry, but I don't see why the obviously well educated people using Street Easy need to take serious this kind of drivel posted by apt 23:

"I know from working with a lot of different financial advisors that there is really only one truth: The game is rigged. I do a lot of reading in an effort to try to understand exactly how the game is rigged so I can invest on the periphery. The more I read, the more I realize that the big gamers find invaluable ways to avoid paying dues just when the cumuppance seems inevitable. "

Those statements make no sense. Does she seriously think "the game" is rigged. Well, obviously the rich do do better, no matter what happens, and obviously the Fed is pulling a lot of strings, but her statement is basically nonsense. And when challenged she doesn't even try to defend it.

If all she did was post her (usually over-stated, hyperbole-infected views) I wouldn't comment, but the condescension is too much too take.

Actually, what is sort of more annoying, especitally in light of her posts about NY real estate,(in concert with W67th) that "her" investment will of course appreciate - because it is somehow "prime" Florida - on the water. I would love to know how much she would actually get for it now if she put it on the market - think it would be more than 15% down.

How could you possibly have any idea? You don't know what her property is, where it is or what she paid for it.

Aren't you just a jealous petty troublemaker?

Hi CC you crotchety old curmodgeon - grab a scotch, and go back out and shoot some rabbits.

ph41..I have no idea. What is weird is that she has brought up her Miami investment on dozens and dozens of threads as if anyone cares, and , uber-ironically, coupled it with sky-is-falling supposedly sage advice for others. Again, if all she did was post a view, fine, but the condescending bs is delusional.

Ph41...very nice.

You know nohing about me. Yet you have nohing but trash talk.

You know nothing about apt23 yet you open as a pseudo expert. With more trash talk.

Why?

buyerbuyer, I like so totally know what you're saying. apt23 has a lot of nerve bringing up her apartment on a thread entitled "Miami". What a beeyotch ... her place isn't in Miami at all, it's in Miami Beach, a totally different city. Some people! She must be mental.

I guess we can safely conclude that ph41 passed out cold shortly after her nasty comments here. I can hear the sound of her snoring.