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Anyone think I should list my apt as one over the other? the 2nd bedroom is built out with window and 2 closets 12x8 pocket door to kitchen, not connected to living room or bedroom
It depends on the size of the second bedroom. If it is proper size bedroom then you should definitely go with 2 bedroom, otherwise junior 4. Whatever you decide you should represent the situation as close to reality as possible; buyers hate to walk in an apartment and be disappointed.
what constitutes a "proper sized" 2 br?
It has to have a window and be at least a certain size. I think 12x8 is plenty big.
I would say definitely list as a 2 bedroom. In our search for a 2 bedroom we have considered plenty of apartments that were originally 1 bedrooms, but our streeteasy search does not look for 1 bedrooms. I would imagine most people looking for a 1 will click on the 1 bedroom + choice.
When I was looking for an apartment, I saw quite a few apartments where the owner converted a dining room into a second bedroom or an office space. Usually this space was right next to the kitchen. Even if the room has a window and a built in closet or two and can be used as a second bedroom or an office space, it was obvious that it was a converted dining space. If this is the situation in your apartment, I would consider the space a junior 4 not a true two bedroom apartment.
lobster is correct.
What if all things are the same except one apt originally has 2 bedrooms and the other has a converted office with windows and closets and is bigger than the 2nd bedroom of the first apt?
Bigger is better, all other things being the same.
Yes it is better but should you still list the first as true 2BR and the 2nd as Junior 4?
Yes. Because converted is not a true 2.
I don't think it is the size of the second bedroom that is the most relevant factor but rather the location within the apartment. A room right off the kitchen with no corridor and just a pocket door between the room and the kitchen is obviously a dining space no matter how it is utilized.
and that's why it's been converted, lobster.
It's a space within the original plan of the apt. that can be used as an office or if bigger, can fit a bed/convertable couch/futon and a dresser (maybe).
So ultimately, it comes down to the initial intentions. The converted apt is the same in all ways, with a bigger converted bedroom(with it's own door, not a pocket door from the kitchen) but the bedroom location is not at the end of some hall or corridor. Interesting. I guess it doesn't ultimately matter but as with the previous question about studio's and 1 BR, listing this as a junior 4 might make someone miss out on an apt that would be better than a lot of 2 BR.
Like everything else it all comes down to what the buyer wants. If the buyer is content with a second bedroom right off the kitchen separated by some type of door but no corridor between the rooms, then that works for the buyer. Some of it is aesthetics, how the apartment is laid out. With the space constraints in NYC apartments, you can understand why an owner would choose to convert a dining area into an alternative use such as a nursery, office space, exercise room or another bedroom. But if you went to a house ain the suburbs nd someone converted the dining area into a bedroom space, I doubt this would considered and listed as a true bedroom space. Perhaps the compromise is to call the unit a convertible one bedroom but that is really a junior four. But it might make sense to list the unit as a two bedroom although I suspect a fair number of buyers, as I did on one more than one occasion, will walk in the apartment and consider it a convertible one bedroom, but you only need one buyer.
doesn't the offering plan define if the apartment is a one bedroom or a two bedroom? Since it's necessary to get proper authorizations in order to do a conversion, even if possible, I think that description should reflect what the apartment is, not what it could become.
Ultimately it depends on how the Department of Buildings classifies it. If they do not acknowledge that it's not a 2-bedroom apartment, it's not a 2-bedroom apartment. Or even a Junior 4, for that matter. It's a 1 bedroom apartment with a separate dining area. End of story. Any attempt to market it as anything else is blatant deception.
When I was looking for a two bedroom, I really wanted a true two bedroom but would look at a jr.4 if it was within my price range and was in a building I was really interested in. This is especially true if the two bedroom apt in the buildings were much more than I could afford.
Does the DOB "classify" apartments? I've never heard of that. My co-op's offering plan only has room count.
Having a second "legal" bedroom does seem to jack up prices quite a bit. Our one bed + den was both larger and cheaper than any true two bedroom we could afford. If your need for the second bedroom is more for an office/occasional guestroom, large one bedrooms can be a much better value.
lad: You saw it and decided for yourself. Not so difficult and a good rule of thumb for looking, lovetocook.
hejiranyc: The DOB classifies the apt as it was originally built. They don't come around and update/revise if a conversion was done.
The DOB is the city agency that grants permits for building (new and conversion).
They send inspectors to inspect for safety.
Weights and measures.
Adherance to code.