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What is the timeline for completion of this project? My guess is we may have to deal with the construction, noise and fumes for years to come. Is it a bad idea to buy anywhere near 2nd ave at this point?
Definitely don't do a Google search, or visit the MTA web page or check the New York Times to find the answer to your obscure question about a major public works project.
Buy a single unit for yourself? It depends on you...
An investment property with multiple units to diversify your risk? Sounds like a much better idea.
They are currently scheduled to begin revenue service in December 2016.
Depends what you mean by "completion" The first phase (from 63rd to 96th) is about 2015-2016, last I heard (which probably means 2018 or so). There are 3 additional phases that don't even have a scheduled start date or anything close to funding. The second phase runs up to 125th street; the third runs to Houston or so and the fourth, all the way to the southern tip of Manhattan (Hanover Square, technically). I just read today that the MTA is getting rid of the machines that dig the tunnels. Since they didn't even think about keeping them, that tells me a start date for even phase two is many years (a decade or more) away.
no chance anything other than phase 1 gets built. Given what this did to yorkville RE values, nobody will want it built near them. besides, phase 1 was by far the most needed of the 3.
^ That's all relative. It might have killed Yorkville property and commercial values in the near term, but once the subway is up and running those same properties will be worth quite a bit more. Quite a bit indeed.
Nordburg, good time to buy then?
Stopped by yorkville today to check out a gorgeous apartment. As beautiful as it was, I could not get past the noise and dust in the neighborhood. Yes perhaps a good long term investment, but I could not tolerate the neighborhood over the next 3+ years.
It's always a good time to buy if the price is right. However I imagine whatever is currently for sale in Yorkville has already priced in the subway to some degree.
JButton is right. For purposes of this discussion, "Second Avenue Subway" and phase 1 are one and the same thing.
I happen to live above one of the sites and have followed the project closely since before it broke ground. A few points:
* as others have noted, the current schedule for revenue service is December 2016. I believe there is about 3 months of schedule contingency between the planned completion of the last contract and that in-service date
* when they broke ground in the low '90s in March 2007, it was to be a 6 year project finishing in 2013
* after a year, when work was still limited to the '90s, it was a 7 years remaining project finishing in 2015, so in a year of work the schedule went backwards a year, which is special in its own way
* a couple of years later - I don't recall exactly when - the in-service date was further delayed to 2016
* for the last 2-ish years, the schedule has held at Dec 2016, and they have knocked off a lot of contract milestones (completed tunnel mining and lining and 86th St utility relocation contracts, major progress on the 96th and 72nd St heavy civil contracts, first year-ish of work on 86th St heavy civil and 63rd St station rehab), while staying close to current schedule for most of it
* they are in the procurement process for the final couple of contracts - track and signals, station finishes, etc.
* while I can't predict whether the schedule will hold, so much has been done the last 5 1/2 years that the remaining risk has to be much less than it was. In other words, there may be further delays but much of the delay that is going to happen has probably been realized by now.
As to timeliness of buying, impact on value, etc., this has been much discussed on other threads over the years. The search function on discussions should be productive in that regard. My own view is that on most blocks it isn't as bad as people make it out to be (exceptions: 93rd-96th St, 69th St, maybe 71st-73rd St, maybe 86th St) and conversely I doubt the windfall argument once the line is operating. I see it more as a mild negative now and a more than mild positive once complete, as opposed to a disaster with distressed valuations today and a huge spike once it's done. Just my view
Btw, hb is right that there is a ton of info on the MTA web site.
The heavy digging work is coming to a close soon.
The outfitting of stations, tracks, and systems will have some impact above ground, but not nearly as much as the utility relocations and excavations.
it will be interesting to see how these jokers start tunneling south of 63rd and 2nd. Is there going to be no Queensboro bridge flow or are they going to reverse the entrace and exit streets?
B/w 60th to about 55th they are going to have to dig freakin deeeeeep. It's all downhill at that point.
by the time that phase starts, we'll be teleporting from one place to another.
the thing is...#6 congestion at rush hour in intolerable.
The T, as it will be know, in it's finished 4th phase build out will greatly reduce the stress on the #6.
The problem is that by the time Phase 4 is complete Wall street will be to banking and finance what the garment district is today to the manufacture of clothing.
2 trains going some place people used to go.
If its scheduled for completion in 2016, figure on 2017-2018. Most likely, if this is a purchase you hold for five years, you won't be able to take advantage of the subway line yourself. But your buyer will, and that will be reflected in the re-sale value. You're getting in for good value (especially along second Avenue, facing the construction); but as noted above you have to deal with dust, noise, construction barriers, etc. But keep your options on the table - there are side streets between first and York and first and Second that have not been affected quite as much as other locations. Aside from having to cross Second Avenue, you wouldn't know they are building a subway line. In a city where it seems there is little opportunity for increase in value aside from normal trends (and I have no idea what "normal" is in Manhattan anymore), the Second Avenue subway corridor definitely presents one.
IS it true that the the northernmost station of the phase 1 work will be on 93 street, not 96th?
No, there are 3 entrances - 1 at 96th St., 2 at 94th St. There will be an "ancillary structure" at 93rd St.
Do you know where the ancillary structure will be on 93? Will it be on the northeast corner and how tall will it be? We are thinking of buying at 245 East 93 which stretches from 93 to 94 on the west side of the street. Do you think that is a bad idea or will the proximity to the subway be a plus? Thanks.
Northeast corner - don't know what it will be or how tall - if you dig through the docs below you might be able to find more detail.
If one were not raising a child in the area and planned to stay longer than 6-7 years, I would think ok buy.
Read it. Best fun fact: The 4-5-6 currently carries more passengers per day than the subway sytems of the entire cities of Boston, Chicago, and SF COMBINED. Boy do they need a second east-side line!!
It still makes me sad that this is being done as only a two-track system. I hope they go for platform doors (but it sounds like they won't), and thereby climate-controlled stations. Too 1904, "mall-like escalators" aside.
And then there's the horrible public-transport art thing ... ugghh!
where do you see that they are getting rid of the double doors?
in terms of two track system, didn't that have to be the case given the sections of tunnel already built were already a particular size?
Heard 2016, but who knows.
I didn't hear they were getting rid of the platform doors ... I just never heard they were going with that option. The last I heard was that they were "considering" it, but that platform doors are usually used in conjunction with auto-piloted train systems, and that they would have to see if they could train conductors to platform precisely enough to align with the doors. That to me sounds like a no.
I would think if there were the political will for four tracks, they could have widened the existing raw tunnel sections. It was originally conceived as a six-track system.
It replaces (or fails to replace) not only the Third Avenue El, but also the 3-track Second Avenue El, as well as a spur that went across the 59th St. Bridge into Queens. It will be inadequate from the start, if it's completed.
Platform doors would not work in on the NYC lettered lines where there are both 60 foot and 75 foot long cars.
But it's the same lack of political will and vision that prevents the MTA from choosing one rolling stock standard or the other and sticking with it in order to add platform doors for the Second Avenue line's new stations. So that's not really an excuse, just some management inconvenience, as far as I can tell.