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At a recent SE meet up a very interesting obsevation was made concerning SE discussion board. It is not as money maker. It is an appendage, an add on, an extra. The money is made from brokers and the companies they work for. It is made from advertisers of new developments and old. It is made from property owners who are trying to emphsize their property.
The discussion board is filled with posters pounding brokers, their companies and their business practices to death. It is filled with endless abuse toward certain new buildings, their prices and their land leases. There has been outragious abuse towards areas of the city that are changing, LIC, Williamsburg, etc.. I am as guilty as any of these offences.
This discussion board is also over run with endless meaningless
commentary such as..."your a doody"..."no, you're a doody and you don't know doody about grammer". These can go on for pages of posts.
As to the regular players...
We know who we are and we know what team we play for.
We all clearly like the board or we would not be back do often.
We collectively have to agree to play together better.
We have to acknowledge that it might be in SE's best interest to ditch this dicussion board. For this reason more that every other we need to chill down all the personal nonsence regardless of our past interactions. We have to begin to act as if we value this site as much as we actually do.
Wrong, the board is not an appendage, its an opportunity to create community and traffic and increase visitors, visits, longevity, interest, and buzz aka social. Without it, SE is merely an occasionally relevant source of data with limited reach and use.
I have never on SE (or anywhere in writing or electronic media) called someone a"doody".
At the risk of agreeing with the biggest troll (doody?) on the board, hburg is right...user-generated forum content (especially if it's candid and accurate) has HUGE intrinsic value and is typically a significant traffic generator.
So you're welcome SE.
Actually, the number of SE users who ever come to the Talk forum is in the low single digits. It is not the portal through which users get to the rest of the sight. Site traffic, based on SE's past analyses of how the site is used, would not be all that negatively impacted (if at all) by elimination of the Talk forum. If I were running this business, I would take some action if I saw thread after thread on a Talk forum degenerate from a discussion into something like this: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/31983-most-expensive-apartment-in-the-country
You either: (1) assign a moderator(s) like a site such as www.photo.net which strictly controls its content, or (2) you shut down the board. To continue the way it is now is to diminish the overall brand by displaying content that includes profanity, personal invective, and high number of posts of value to no one other than the two to three people typing back and forth at a furious pace.
I think the site is more valuable and credible when it supports open discussions about real estate, even if the content is often critical and/or not what a brokerage might like to see. But to provide just a completely open forum for all manner of nonsense to be posted seems a silly business decision to me and it has puzzled me for years as to why SE continues in this vein.
P.S. I do not claim to have completely clean hands on this issue. But I agree with falco and will endeavor in the future to weigh words more thoughtfully before hitting "Reply".
Clean hands? Did you ever apologize to the broker you accused by real name of lying when you were in fact wrong? That was thread you created to accuse someone of dishonesty, but I guess since you created it and didn't hit"Reply" then everything is ok.
I have never defamed a real live person.
KW: i believe you meant to say the percentage of visitors who come to the forum is low. I have no idea. One thing for sure is the SE has done a good job ranking for search results both on apartment addresses and a wide range of topics from this board.
I assume that they know precisely what they're doing and are working to maximize their traffic and revenue.
Hmm, my invite to that meet-up must have gotten lost in the mail.
I think the anti-broker tenor of much of the site is unfortunate; a few years ago, you had Sandy, you had Klara, you had Dave, you had Matthew, you had Tina -- all very experienced brokers, for the most part with different areas of expertise, and they all got "run off." I still meet extremely wonderful people through this site, which is why I keep coming back, but I do confess that more and more I meet them IRL and then hang out with them off-board rather than in the streeteasy "cafe."
A moderator would certainly make a great deal of difference, but I understand if the site chooses not to go that route.
DG Neary Realty
>has HUGE intrinsic value and is typically a significant traffic generator.
Totally agree. In a few network forums Ive belonged to in the past, the ones that showed both views and posts seemed to have a common trend. Posts most generally represented between 10% and 20% total views of the thread.
a 15% example 15 comments / 100 views.
And if your talking for example about a square footage layout, maybe 40 of those viewers click on the link. And then you could have 5 or 6 arguing back and forth on the size clicking on it 5/10 times each.
Another example, the thread on downtown Setai. As bad as it got, Im sure the exposure in the end to get potential buyers was far better than if the thread never existed.
In this country, the only unrecoverable "bad" publicity is kid touching.
As we now have a "member since" and "posts" filed next to the names, maybe a "most likes," put those thumbs up/thumbs down features to use at least.
With some balancing scale between how many thumbs up for particular posts and quantity of different members thumbing up that poster.
Actually not the biggest fan of the thumbs up thing but hey, maybe it spurs even more quality posting.
If they don't want it, shut it down, and folks will move elsewhere. Trolling isn't good, but nobody needs to do what they don't want to do for the site, which is in business for itself.... as long as they are staying within the stated rules. There are plenty of other places for us to waste our time.
That being said, every week I notice less and less posting. I think removing the links off the front page has something to do with it.
And in terms of traffic, even if this traffic has nothing to do with rest of site traffic, it helps them. Raw traffic numbers stay high, which helps them show in comscore rankings (which, guess what, they monetize), and can provide an SEO boost. These pages also show up in SEO. You're telling me that none of their sales team has even played up an "active message board"?
And Ali, much respect for your tough skin.
How does Curbed maintain civility and users that keep coming back? I don't find the comments as insightful, but there seems to be less invective.
Sometime the trolling can get out if controll. Ie cc/hb, ar/mutumbo, but overall I finds the comments of hb and alan entertaining. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
I agree with SWE that the forums do add to raw traffic, although not to uniques which can be critical. I also think that people find them helpful, a proven by the numerous "How Do I?" "Where Do I?" questions that continue to be posed here. SE clearly has the option of shutting down the forums, which they have chosen so far not to do. They have also chosen not to invest in moderation, although activity by new accounts is moderated until the poster proves not to be an outright troll.
As for the acrimony, I think it is inherent to the medium, when people can freely post opinions and not have to face their opponent, sometimes the constraints of polite discourse are loosened. I think you will find a degree of acrimony on most internet message forums. The "you're a doody" stuff, annoying as it is, largely takes place among posters who are already "greyed out". (With one exception who should be grey but that's not for this discussion) Newcomers are not exposed to it unless the proactively "unhide" the conversations, and they are easily ignored by everyone else as well. It is true that several of the "greyed" posters often make very valuable contributions to the board that have not a whiff of "doody" so it is unfortunate their comments will be missed by those who choose to keep grey grey The grey system however is an easy way for people to limit their exposure to the personal nonsense and SE to limit damage to the brand.
Actually, when I think of a Brooklyn-centric RE board - I'll admit that I preferred the posts and dialog before they clearly sold out to 'brokers, sales folks, bankers, etc..' On occasion there's still the juicy argument "buy near the projects and suffer - you're a racist" but on the whole it has mostly flatlined. I come here for some "true grit" and sometimes find it - a nice diversion from work and other priorities.
The only thing I regret about being grey is that it has effectively shut down my comps work. It is a hell of a lot of work to review hundreds of transactions weekly, and I'm damned if I'm going to do so for a thread that may never be seen. I've started taking a more narrow look again so I have some idea of what is happening, but nothing like I used to do. As I really don't have the time to indulge in my real estate obsessions right now it's probably for the best, but I kind of miss it.
(With one exception who should be grey but that's not for this discussion)
Is that the poster who was grey and then came back under a new name?
there is a fair amount of grey on this board. We should give credit to the those posters they have not changed their user names. How ez would it be to become falcogold2, un-greyed, reserected, unrestricted. For this reason and for the fact that these posters have retained their original username SE should have a total board amnesty. We should reel ourselves in a bit and insist on SE 'turn off the grey'.
This goes for the posters I love and those I loath.
"I agree with SWE that the forums do add to raw traffic, although not to uniques which can be critical."
Well, there might be lots of repeats from us, but we still count as uniques. And uniques aren't everything, in fact, selling "we have a broad base of deep loyal users" is a frequent sell... and you're selling impressions, not uniques...
and AR... why are you still grey anyway? Some of the others I get, but what did you do that was any worse than lots of non-grey posters?
swe, i have been known to go bat-shit crazy when provoked. but that was always true.
who knows? i don't really care, but fairness does require that certain others share the same fate. SE can be very slow in that regard.
hint to new posters: it's really not that hard to look at the greys and know when to stay away, unless you enjoy WWW and its SE equivalent. certain posts showing up without other certain grey posters anywhere nearby is probably A-OK, and may even have meaningful and/or entertaining info. as to the vitriol, there is some bizarre history, just sigh and move on. i'm just about at that stage myself, having recently accomplished a major goal here.
>having recently accomplished a major goal here.
Allow me to be the first to congratulate you!
So what do you think about Goldman Sachs investing in NYC jails?
for real? i hadn't read that. link please.
the goal is good. the incentive structure seems sound. interesting, i don't know about the goldman element, but really if they are getting money for results and they think they can, maybe there's some hope. our current system is fucked up beyond belief, so although i believe in a public solution one that profit-oriented is acceptable as long as it's based on results. and a decline in recidivism is huge, particularly since there is such a huge trend for releasing people early due to funding problems.
i must confess that i'm liking mayor mike a lot more now that he doesn't have reelection on his mind. i still think that he delayed some truly necessary education decisions, but a lot of what he is doing i agree with.
Sounds like White Collar crime school
Finally a educational plan taught by qualified teachers.
>a few years ago, you had Sandy,
you had Klara,
you had Dave,
you had Matthew,
you had Tina
-- all very experienced brokers
Where are they? I think SE is fair to honest, responsible people who treat their clients well, provide transparency into the facts, are objective in their statements, have a head on their shoulders, and are long-term focused.
I think the broker bashing is faaaar too much. If someone posts a story of broker abuses or has ha a bad experience, let's gove him or her help. Then move along instead of making overarching insults.
However, I think we still need to be very honest about things like overpriced developments or land leases. Regardless of whether they pay to advertise on this board, we shouldn't allow it to cloud correct and helpful discussion akin to the equity research/investment naking fiasco of the 90's. We should remember that they are businessmen and women trying to maximize their profits and there needs to be a balanced counteropinion... No matter how unsavory to them. All within reason, though.
Spelling on the iphone is awful! Sorry!
there are only about a dozen or so posters on these threads anyways, half of which are grey and mainly concerned with grammar.
shut down or not shut down, does it really matter?
does it really matter? What if we added video? Could catch some priceless moments like cc's Wednesday evening meltdown.
video, i'm sold. it would totally matter then.
RE is like adult Sims for me..obviously not a professional but I do sometimes have real questions..like should I buy my stuy apt when (if) it goes condo. I was interested in maybe investing in a Brighton beach apt for a summer home (I hate to drive) and what happened was you regulars
Responded but it felt like it was a ping pong match that I was just observing. I think that your (obvious) expertise could be valuable and maybe you could amuse yourselves with the other stuff on FB. btw..dr resnick from the uws bought a summer home in Brighton on Corbin place..NY times last week.
"However, I think we still need to be very honest about things like overpriced developments or land leases. Regardless of whether they pay to advertise on this board, we shouldn't allow it to cloud correct and helpful discussion akin to the equity research/investment naking fiasco of the 90's. We should remember that they are businessmen and women trying to maximize their profits and there needs to be a balanced counteropinion... No matter how unsavory to them. All within reason, though."
"The discussion board is filled with posters pounding brokers, their companies and their business practices to death. It is filled with endless abuse toward certain new buildings, their prices and their land lease"
AND It SHOULD BE. People should speak out about poor, or unethical business practices. And misspricings
It is not in SE business interest to ditch the discussion board. If was, they would have.
"we need to chill down all the personal nonsence"
this I agree with