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I don’t like how my prior discussion ended up attracting a combination of trolls, senior citizen haters, race-baiters, and people who like to argue and spew facts about the law that are a total aside from the topic at hand, and then it seemed to disappear entirely from the site. I’d like to have a discussion for mature adults without the mudslinging, or even the extremely odd false righteousness of hating children (which we most certainly do not) or being a closet bigot (which we are definitely not) but pretending to uphold some societal utopia.
If you are a mature husband and wife in your late 50s or 60s, you’ve had your kids and raised them, where in the city would you like to live? Even perspectives of a childless couple in their 30s who don’t intend to have kids would be interesting.
Thoughtful responses welcome. Childishness can be in its own separate discussion.
I have lived in Manhattan for about 20 years now. I personally like the upper eastside but I think a lot has to do with each persons preference. I know people that love the upper westside and some who love Tribeca. I think it has to do with ones lifestyle.
What is it that you are looking for?
1. Near Lincoln Center has been popular with active retirees who are particularly interested in performing arts. Even if you're not, you might appreciate having cultured, educated peers around you.
2. Williamsburgh (new construction) has been growing in appeal for 50-someodds, but largely because they appreciate the more dynamic scene (restaurants, etc.) dominated by younger people. Many of those younger people have been buying strollers in recent years, so that might not work for you.
It sounds like you'll have to accept the likelihood of children of all ages in your building, regardless of where you live, so you should focus on the activities you enjoy, the neighborhoods that have those activities, and the transportation routes from various neighborhoods to those activities.
I would recommend the neighborhood near Columbia.
Fifth and 81st.
This is an unbelievably difficult topic.
Simply because no matter how much time you (or I rather)spend in a neighborhood, you never get a true feel for the neighborhood until your actually living there.
Even when I had a long term girlfriend in a particular neighborhood, it was still different when I later moved to that area.
Personally if I were in your situation, I'd opt for short term furnished rentals in varying neighborhoods. You'll know in your gut after 2 weeks at any location.
Hotels if you must but it may dampen the at home feel.
May sound a bit extreme but if your the explorer type, this may be an approach.
Kind of like choosing to vacation by cruise and island hopping rather than the one locale the whole trip.
Eumendides, I think it really depends on the things you like to do.
For instance (just picking things that come to mind as exampes)
Walking - I say Upper East for strolls... the 60s and 70s and 80s off the park are just block after block of pretty buildings, much more than the west side. Plus they both have the park. Or West Village, but no giant park, and more crowds.
Restaurants - closer to union square puts you in mega restaurant density. If you are uptown, I'd go east over west, the closer to midtown the better
Museums - museum mile on the east side, though downtown has some interesting stuff
Arts - lincoln center, carnegie hall on west side, and a little easier access to broadway
Big Apartment / Value - Financial District
How do you actually see spending days?
Brooklyn Heights with the new park is pretty nice
Also, the only criteria you have expressed is about children. Do you want to live in a peaceful neighborhood and take cabs and or mass transit to activities? Do you want the reverse? Is a view important? If so, what type? Etc. etc.
I do not have kids nor do I intend to. I have lived in Midtown West (v. close to Columbus Circle) for more than 15 years (thru my 30s & now mid-40s). The area has changed drastically over the years, but I love every minute of it. Hell's Kitchen has all types of dining varying in px, ambiance & cuisine; Whole Foods is @ Time Warner; access to several different bus & subway lines (including crosstown); very walkable to 5th Ave, Radio City, Rockefeller, Lincoln Center & Times Sq;several diff movie theatre options; Penn Station & Port Auth are right there. I would highly recommend it.
Unfortunately, due to a non-kid related family situation, I am now looking to move, but to the UWS...
UES is too geriatric IMHO...
Long Island City.
Take the 7 train to Vernon/Jackson one of these weekend and stroll down to the Gantry park.
You'll see young family with kids EVERYWHERE...
as a real estate person, I can't comment on where any particular category of person ("mature" "childless") should live in NYC -- that would be a violation of Fair Housing laws.
I can say, though, that I've lived in six different neighborhoods in New York, and placed clients in maybe a half-dozen more, and I think that the quality of the building that you live in has as much to do with your quality of life as the neighborhood does. (For one thing, neighborhoods often change faster than buildings do). As you consider moving, think about whether you'll want access to outdoor space; whether you want a building with a very communal spirit or one where your neighbors leave you alone; one that has few services, or one where you're fawned over. Getting the right "fit" in those terms will help make your NYC experience an enjoyable one.
DG Neary Realty
Eumendides - swe beat me to it, and I think he's right -- e.g:
- Is there a particular health club/gym that you care about? Some people are so dedicated to Reebok, or Chelsea Piers, or a particular Equinox, and it's such a part of their lifestyle, that it becomes a huge part of where they choose to live
- What's your eating style? For example, if you two love dining at the bar at places like Gramercy Tavern, Minetta, Balthazar, Otto, etc etc. it's probably not a good idea to be living on the UES, UWS or Sutton Place (unless you're ok with lots of long cab rides).
- Is there a park you really like? For some being near CP is a must. Others like Riverside, or the west side along the Hudson etc etc.
- Does theatre/arts matter to you? Proximity to Bway theatres or Lincoln Center is a huge factor for some while others couldnt care less.
- Street vibe - Some find the West End Ave/Riverside Dr/Park Ave/Sutton 100% residential thing very sterile and off-putting, even if the blocks are aesthetically charming. Others love it. Do you want delis, sidewalk dining, pubs, etc etc right outside your door?
- Grocery shopping - compare the experience of Whole Foods on Union Square with an Upper East side D'Agostino and you'll know what I mean
I would put all of these factors and a few more above the toddler factor. Not being able to pick up a cold six of Hoegaarden on my block at midnight would annoy me a lot more than a brat in a stroller on the elevator.
You really have to give more on your preferences than just age. Activities, space desires, quietness, parks, views, etc. On second thought, it'd also be helpful if you'd pin down your age as well.
BEST AREA FOR CHILDLESS 30S COUPLE...
"We will not be having kids"
"Young professionals. Like to entertain."
"When we reached 55, ..."
TOP is delusional. Pointing out the illegality of her request was not race-baiting or any of the other things she claimed.
But its EASY to look at the NYT neighborhood guides, or those from Zillow, Trulia, or other sites to find out the demographics of different zip codes. There are certainly zip codes with less kids, though those often are replaced with 20-somethings.
I'm biased because I am totally in love with the UWS and will live there forever as long as I can afford it. If I had more money I'd just buy a bigger place, but for now I'll settle with 800 sq ft. I'm a childless couple in my 30's though and I like the diversity of the neighborhood. It's child friendly, but there's always something for us to do during the week and on the weekends. I think NYMag hates the UWS because their 'livability' neighborhood calculator won't come up wiht the UWS for any combination of inputs.
If I were not a runner, I'd love to live in the Village. I like to go out to eat and gawk at people.
Did we ever get an explanation from inododo on his comment that certain races are heavier than others?
I still think my experience of Midtown West was fairly different living in a smaller building -- a non-doorman rental with a private garden -- and living in a larger building -- a full-service doorman condo with a shared roofdeck.
And yet, they were both studios within six blocks of each other, so it wasn't like I was suddenly going to a different set of restaurants.
I'd buy a home in a poor school district, because I don't have kids and don't want to pay for schools. Saw a townhouse in Red Hook I loved, but couldn't afford. Parking is also super easy, since I also hate the subway. I also don't like noise, so Manhattan is just out. Parts of Queens are so acceptable, Astoria, Forest Hills. All depends on budget and commute.
"I am now looking to move, but to the UWS... UES is too geriatric IMHO..."
Wow, the unintentional irony of that post... I can't think of any places more geriatric than Lincoln Square. The only thing that might bring down the ages would be the SROs... ;-)
Eum, you've been searching these boards for a while trying to decide where you want to live. We are in our 60's, have lived in the suburbs for over 30 years, raised our children and now am back in the city. It's really personal taste and what you want out of the experience. Do you want to be in a very tourist area like Columbus Circle, do you want lots of restaurants like the UES, are you very physically active and want to be near areas like the west side? There are nice things about all areas of the city whether its Chelsea, West Village, UES, UWS, etc. Everything is reachable by subway or cab so it's not that important that you live near a museum, broadway, Lincoln Center, etc. What you want is a nice apartment in a nice building that you will be happy in. Take one neighborhood at a time, go have lunch or dinner, watch the people go by, walk around the neighborhood, get an idea whether you like what you see. What you're looking for may not necessarily be found on this board with people in their 20's, 30's, 40's who see things a little different than you do.
We are happy where we are but that doesn't mean it's right for you. It has what we were looking for but we had a wish list of what we wanted when we started looking.
Try Miami Beach
I'm in my late 40's and don't have children. I've lived in Brooklyn Heights for over 20 years and think it's definitely the most livable neighborhood in the city.
Seventh Avenue in the West Seventies is EXTREMELY serene & peaceful.
You can hear a wide variety of birds, with barely any perceptible traffic noise. It's practically like being in the country, & it would be worth your while to explore this most bucolic of areas!
Well whattaya waitin' for?!? GO ALREADY!!!
Personally, I like the UES, but there are a number of factors to consider. For instance - will you be using the subway or taking cabs? Why not spend some time in a few neighborhoods for a couple days each and see. Spend your time walking each, practicing your routine, dining and shopping there. That should give you some comfort with each and forms a foundation for further decision making.
"Seventh Avenue in the West Seventies is EXTREMELY serene & peaceful."
are you talking about 8th ave? 7th was cut off all the way till 110
Re: Seventh Avenue in the West Seventies
watch out for the big snapping turtle
Money makes all the difference.
If money is not a factor: UES west of Lexington btn 65 and 95. Can't beat the park, the beauty and, the safety.
CPW or very close (same street spread), Riverside Dr. 72 to Grants tomb.
Village on 5th ave.
Slightly less money: EEA (east river parks) and quiet streets or the Suttons (central location)
This is interesting, thank you for keeping it civil.
From the suburbs to Manhattan is a different world especially after decades away. Our neighbors are in a similar position. And of course in Manhattan we want it all, but it’s a town where that’s not possible. It’ll be a weighing. I had asked before people’s thoughts on various neighborhoods, I think we are particular to Lincoln Center area and we’ve ruled out certain others like Central Park South. We’d like our building to be a bit of an oasis, but outside the door to be a vibrant neighborhood. We thought originally, let’s think about this from a younger point of view, where would a 30 year old want to be instead of thinking about this from a future elderly person’s point of view. But truth be told, most people in their 30s are raising the family, so it truly is a different point of view. And in your 20s, there's Union Square, Flatiron, etc. but those have less parks and the parks there are a bit overrrun in a different way. Overall here and on the prior discussion we got some good suggestions. Thanks especially Lovetocook for your refreshing post and perspective. So, what’s for dinner? Actually one reason we love Lincoln Center is the restaurants, Café Fiorello in particular.
Also think in terms of the creature comforts you've grown accustomed to in the suburbs that cost *millions* -- literally -- here in the city.
Like your own washer and dryer.
A guest room.
A place to park your car.
Being a 15-minute drive to everywhere and anywhere (as opposed to 45 minutes door to door via the subway no matter where you want to go).
No, I did mean 7th...IT WAS A JOKE!!!
Eumen - Good choice! You are going to like living in Lincoln Square.
My husband and I are in your same demographic. still have one teen at home near launching but we can see the light. We are downtown people. Love Union Square, the East Village, Gramercy, Flatiron. We are in it for the food, which is plentiful and reasonable, the diversity, walkability and general interesting environment. If I could live anywhere downtown, it would be in the Gramercy Park area. You can have some peace and beauty, the convenience of transportation at USq, fun and food of east village, greenwich village and flatiron. My husband and I don't work on Fridays and spend the day in another part of the city to explore. The upper east and upper west are nice, of course you have the park, but everyday eating out food choice simply aren't that great, I hate feeling like I have to be put together all the time and there is just not very much diversity. That's what we care about and why we live downtown.
Midtown West / Hell's Kitchen / West 50's.. Yes 9th is relatively young/trendy compared to say UES/Mid-East but you're close to Lincoln Center, Central Park, convenience stores on 8th, Theatre Times Sq.. All great when your Ohio college pals come visit and play dominoes on the sidewalk in WaHi fashion.
*convenience stores on 8th for your meds
Close to Roosevelt hospital too which is convenient
Actually Roosevelt Hosp is a really a Death Panel, so not a good neighborhood if medical facilities are on your wish list...
I think he knew that.
@hol4 - unfortunately there is going to be a Duane Reade on every block no matter which part of Manhattan you are in, so if "convenience stores for your meds" is a priority, you needn't worry. you'll be covered no matter where u live.
@hol4 you're right: Midtown West is a busy neighborhood & u might have trouble navigating the busy sidewalks with your walker. stay on UES, definitely a better fit for u.
Lots of strollers on the sidewalk on the UES this may piss the geezers off
Oh, I thought this was the immmature thread
that's really what you thought?
There are no neighborhoods where one is guaranteed not to have a rambunctious toddler living in the apartment above. That's the thing. You can minimize the odds by following the advice of NYC10023, but plenty of young families are having their first kid in a one-bedroom apartment, and sometimes their second as well. And if you are truly child-phobic, it will be that one child living above you doing cartwheels and pushing the popping toy whose name i don't recall that will truly drive you crazy. I don't know how or why a few kids in an elevator would be so disturbing, I'm assuming you still go out, where there are plenty of kids around, in shops, restaurants, etc. Yes, I could see not buying in a building that has mostly 2 bedrooms and larger and a playroom, but neighborhood? Neighborhoods change. The gays move onward and families move into Chelsea in increasing numbers. Schools open in midtown east and suddenly it becomes attractive to families. Plenty of families live on Park Avenue and Fifth in the UES, it's just generally peaceful so that doesn't register as much. They could finally develop really good schools to service (sufficiently) the RSB area and then the Lincoln Center area could really change.
> it will be that one child living above you doing cartwheels and pushing the popping toy whose name i don't recall that will truly drive you crazy.
There should be 80% carpeting rules.
Exactly AR! That's why I suggested Miami Beach
HB, for us it was the college-aged kids who seemed to be setting up make-shift bowling lanes on the floor above us. But we never complained, because we usually can sleep through anything and so, who the hell cared?
Yes, the 80% rule is almost impossible to avoid, but the vast majority of people want hardwoods, not carpeting. Another thing you can't get absolute control over in an environment with most people living in dwellings with multiple units.
college aged kids are the best. I'm looking forward to it in 6 years.
Eumen, glad my post was helpful to you. I too live in Lincoln Square. This morning, I walked over to River Park under the highway near 68th, sat there with my morning coffee and newspaper and watched people on paddles in the river going upstream. I smelled the wonderful morning breeze and thought to myself, how lucky was I to find the perfect place for us to live. I'm close to the highway so I can zip in and out of the city, there's quiet places away from the noise and there's the excitement of the city when I'm in the mood. I have a terrace and in the evenings we sit outside. But hey, I love the outdoors. We are as happy as can be. Going out to eat all the time has become tiresome after a while, but there's always food deliveries. Good luck in your search. You will know when you find what you want.
Were there kids in the park? If so, probably won't work.
Yes there were. Didn't say it was right for Eumen, only right for us. Don't mind kids, strollers, dogs, geezers, even people in the 20's, 30's, or 40's.
Nice to hear. Me too.
We also moved to Manhattan as childless older adults, and decided on the Sutton Place area. We wanted an oasis of quiet and therefore eliminated the UWS and most of Midtown East. We wanted access to good medical care, although we were currently very healthy. I wanted to know that I would be taken to a very good hospital by the EMT. Another consideration that we did not give a lot of attention to at the time we were purchasing - select a well lit street with a lot of doormen, etc. so that if one of you comes home alone at night, you will feel safe. Bus transportation is more important that subways. As you get older, those subway steps loom higher and higher.
Brooks2 hates Sutton Place.
I love Chelsea and have recently moved here from San Francisco. I selected a building that has mostly studios,with 2 1-bedroom apartments per floor, and larger apartments on the upper floors. I have been here for 2 months and have yet to see (or hear) a child in the elevator or lobby of my building. I chose it because the transportation is incredible, there are art galleries and many, many fine, inexpensive restaurants (however, I love to cook and save an unbelievable amount of money doing so -- allows me to go to the theater 3-4 times per week!!). Finally, although Chelsea has the reputation of being all gay, it is actually very diverse (I think the younger gays have gone to Hells Kitchen) and people seem to look out for each other. If I were to move, it would be to the Upper West Side, however it is infested with children.
"infested with children"...they are not cockroaches. You were once a kid too I assume. Glad you like Chelsea so do I.
Oh and we're on the UWS..67th street and it's just "infested" with adults too...yuckk.....and we have to pay bills and remember our manners and deal with all the yucky stuff like Central Park with their adults that run and ride bikes and Lincoln Center and just YUCK I almost can't even bear to think about it..add to that a child on the street..ewwwww vomit! Thank G-d you have the Skyline and you can avoid all those kids!
Oh Highline not skyline...must have been the kid in me that came out..my apologies sir!
jesus....lighten up....read this thread and you'll see that his comment was meant ironically.
columbiacounty, 2 weeks after embarassing meltdown here, on new medication and much more balanced in his outloko.
maybe outloko is the appropriate word after all.
is there anything that you can't twist, distort and ultimately make about you?
oh I'm sorry, let me refocus on your meltdown.
spoken like a true weasel.
say anything enough times and it magically becomes The Truth.
I understand the desire to move on from the incident. It was embarassing.
i thought you were beyond embarrassment, shame and humiliation.
Nope, I enjoy watching it on the big screen and the small screen. I appreciate only having to pay $10 / month to see you.
What's that show where they eat disgusting things and jump into a pile of snakes or spiders. I like watching that too.
You're right Columbiacounty..I should lighten up..probably just the old Mom in me feeling protective of my little "pests" even though we're in that older demo too. I read the post so got their humor. Not above an apology if it offended anyone. Have fun living in Manhattan. We do.
Hate to stick my dildo humor in here but hey ericho69. How's that sprint working for ya?
And btw, w67 a little biased but lincoln center is great. Not as dead as uws Past 72nd st. Nice mix of euro trash, strivvy families, ballet dancers. W67 even appreciates twice daily school week influx of teenagers dressed in weird garb going to Martin Luther.
CP is much more accessible due to narrowness of area. Reebok is fru fru but ok. 5 min to midtown meetings. 40 min to newark thru lincoln tunnel. Equidistant to bx science and stuyvesant.... And century 21 is such a better anchor than bn. That crepe place rocks. And the fig gelato nxt door kicks azz. But my favorite, w67 pulled trigger on sprint across from the old tavern on the green. So fond money making memories and my HS days of playing ultimate / full contact football wo gear on the lawn. That lawn's got w67 blood.
We have a grandparents' like of children.
Now grow up already.
there's this guy called LICCommnent who bought a shlthole 1 bdrm at peak in LIC who might be of help to you. he describes "Long Island City as one of the most desirable neighborhoods in NYC".
I recommend you suspend any and all searching and get to LIC to get a good whiff of the area.
"Also think in terms of the creature comforts you've grown accustomed to in the suburbs that cost *millions* -- literally -- here in the city."
"Like your own washer and dryer."
"A guest room."
Got that too.
"A place to park your car."
"Being a 15-minute drive to everywhere and anywhere (as opposed to 45 minutes door to door via the subway no matter where you want to go)."
Almost nowhere south of 96th is 45 minutes from me, and, hell, I can walk it. The vast majority of anything I need regularly is within 5 blocks - park, movies, restaurants, the stores I frequent, pharmacy (20 feet), supermarket (1 block). And what suburb has 15 min. drive to anywhere you want to actually be? My folks live in the burbs, traffic 'aint no picnic for them.
Oh yeah, and it didn't cost anywhere near millions...
Matt, somewhereelse is saying you overpaid.
How about the Hudson Heights area; either Cabrini or Ft Washington by Bennet park or Ft Tryon?
Before everyone jumps on the suggestion, I KNOW that area doesn't offer as much in way of amenities as the rest of Manhattan... But, not knowing price range, you can get an incredible 2 bdrm for less than 500k; are right by all the necessities like grocery stores, pharmacies; have a fair amount of nice restaurants and bars; peace and quiet (birds chirping, trees, right by the water etc) when you want it; Subway rides of ~20 minutes to Columbus Circle, or 35 minutes to the bottom of the island during the week (and I work right by the WTC, so have timed it); easy access by car to NJ or CT...
Like I said, I'm aware of the trade-offs, but depending on what one values it may be a great fit
My folks whom are grandparents don't mind a stroller on the elevator or on the sidewalks.
Right on Leslie I can't stand all those yucky adults either.
When you finally make a decision, please post it to SE, and let us know what determined your decision. Usually questions are asked, but we never know how the answers affected the outcome.
Yorkville. Easy walking, eating, the Met, Guggenheim,and most of affordable.