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Has anyone managed to negotiate any discounts with this developer? How far along is the building?
Is the development worth the higher price per sq ft?
The construction area outside is a mess downtown.
Why would you want to own a home in a converted office building in the middle of a protected zone where there is 24 hour machine gun presence? Doesn't seem very spa-like.
So there won't be a lot of traffic in front of your house? So you don't worry about walking home at night?
The area around the Setai is not very Construction-y.
However, to answer mf21's question, I don't think the Setai's sufficiently more fabulous than other downtown options to be worth the extra money, but the pricing is a lot better than other developments with a similar spin such as 55 Wall and the W. If you like the aesthetic and aren't concerned about the general real estate market, the Setai doesn't seem like a particularly terrible option.
Thanks. I was wondering if anyone knows somebody who has purchased there?
i bought a 1 bed, 1.5 baths on the 18th floor. prices have gone up about $200 per sq foot since i signed the contract. my bet/hope is for the area to become the next tribeca. lots of high end shops are popping up in the area. so, i shall see...
Tolho, may i ask which layout and at what price?
Don't ask for a discount but rather try getting them to pay for your transfer and mansion taxes. That's what I got for my 1bed.
i got the 18D for $1,015,000. yes, they took care of the mansion tax.
Congrats! Have you gompleted yet? Do you have a move-in date?
scheduled move-in is sometime in september.
OK thanks - who knows, we could be neighbours before too long! Do you know if the resto is still scheduled to open this summer?
they say some of the lower floors will start to close late august. but honestly, they are still adding on additional floors. so i don't know how that's going to work out. will they allow people to move-in even though there's major construction going on on top floors?
thats what i have been asking myself too.. to be honnest, that is the impression I got from discussions with the sales team, but nothing is ever made clear cut! I am lookign further up, so I am not sure mine would be ready for Sept/Oct...
Do u know if that awful aircondition unti is gone yet? Is the lobby up and running?
So how is not yet complete Wall Street condo development doing?
All you who post about declines in the prime condo market, give us some specific recent anecdotes.
Has anyone heard of timing for closings? Are people walking from contracts here?
i work nearby, can't imagine that this is going to be the next Tribeca. Shopping at Hermes or Tiffany's doesn't really make it a neighborhood. For all the news about families and such buying down here, it is still quite desolate after 5pm and on weekends. Hopefully for the new apts there will be some amenities someday b/c in almost 10 years there's still pretty much nothing.
setai is best of best in the district.yes i bought here.its unique club arrangement will prevail even in tough times.with its compatriot new neighbors:75 wall&william beaver the area is up up up.the resturant looks amazing,the spa will be unbelievable.
i bought here too. closing has been pushed back a couple of times. i guess you would expect this from a new construction. for me closing is expected around May/June. the place looks nice though...
tolho: Admittedly I've never bought a "mansion" in NY. Why did you pay $1,015M? The tax is about $10,000 correct? Couldn't you have worked out a deal somehow so you close with a $999,999 purchase price and agree to pay $7K of the developer's closing costs? This way you end up paying $1,007,000 and the developer nets the same. The way you did it you pay $1,015, 000 and the developer only nets $1,005,000.
What am I missing here?
The area is so depressing and so not Tribeca--have you ever seen anyone go into that Hermes? I dropped in once during lunchtime and the person I spoke with acted like she hadn't seen a sole in days. By the way, the 2009 Hermes ties sucks and, like concept of living in the financial district, are far more suited to a Dow 14000 world. Get your ties at Barker Black and get the hell out of financials--the sector and the district! And take note that these apartments have no windows and get less light than the vault at the NY Fed. The one potentially cool and unique perk that these developers could have thrown in would have been some sort of tie in with Setai Miami, which is a great hotel (albeit a horrendous glass monstrosity and a total eyesore in the SoBe skyline; the thing casts a shadow halfway down the beach)...but they didn't. You buy a place in the Setai NY, and it's not like you get preferred anything in Setai Miami; hell, you can't even get into the beachfront cafe. And what impact is Swig's bankruptcy having on this project? I mean, he was one of the developers, so it can't be good....
Loftparade, what are you talking about Swig impacting the Setai? Is Swig a partner with Zamir equities? Also, hearing that many people are walking from contracts...anyone else hearing this?
the developer is covering the mansion tax.
i've heard that the buyer base is stong and highly motivated to close.there is a tie in with miami and other;10% discount and other priviledges.beauty is ineye of the beholder;isee the district as great and getting greater.
it's hard to walk out on 15% deposit.
Swig definitely was a partner at some point. Not sure of the current status, i.e., whether Zamir bought him out or not; I doubt that they're liquid enough to right now, but perhaps it happened around seven months ago when they still thought the project would be immensely profitable. No specific info about walk aways in the building, but it's happening everywhere, and I can't believe this is not an issue for them, especially given that the offering was way, way overpriced for the FiDi and the FiDi was way, way overpriced for the city, and the city was way, way...you get the point...,. Plus lots of house music lovin' euros were drawn to this project/brand (much like the Beaver) thinking that they could cover the cost of cary with rental income alone and they must be scared stiff seeing what's happening in the NYC rental market in general and especially the FiDi--why would someone rent for twice as much in the Setai if they can get nearly the same amenities, more sq. footage, approximately the same amount of light, for HALF the price at 20 Pine? It is hard to walk away from a 15% down payment, but it's even harder to throw down the remaining 85% to lock in some of the most inflated prices in the history of the universe. Emotional old money types (of which there are very few in this building) would not want to throw away their money and may hang in there, but dispassionate, trader types will look at it as cutting their losses and preserving capital. Look at it this way--if in October of last year (when BAC was trading around 38), you paid $6 (appox 15% down) for a euro style option to buy BAC at 40 in October of this year. Are you definitely going to exercise in october if you think in 10 years BAC is going to be trading at 100 --simply because you don't want to walk away from the 15% you threw down up front. Or are you going to let the option expire, i.e., walk away? Now, I don't mean to imply that Setai is going to loose quite as much value as BAC, but you get the point I'm trying to make.
Loftparade...agree with your comments...are you in contract at the Setai?
loftparade:what you say has merit,but i'll proceed to buy anyway.why?because i expect the setai to defy gravity,(the overall financial malaise)>it is not another,omnnipresent "luxury"type condo.it really has 5 star amenities with fully attended services,(something truly rare in all of ny),and non existant inthe district.the club restaurant is gorgeous and the spa is set to be extra ordinary.such lavishment w'ont appeal to the general public, but i'm convinced that for some,it will offer a most desirable,unique home or pied a terre.the sponsor is to be commended for his high caliber ,unhurried ,exacting performance.the business plan of the club,and it's rlationship to the condo assoc.,is well concieved and viable.the relationship is mutually beneficial ,and interdependent.that's why i expect the club to remain fresh and beautiful,into the future.(you'll note that other -pseudo type luxury condos ,offer amenities-not backed up with attended services,or are temporarily funded,or are there on arrival ,but will likely disappear because of underfunded common chargrs}
wait..."defy gravity"...who says that on a blog??? JRW you must be affiliated the Setai and Zamir Equities...your post is a joke
loft parade I also agree completely with you, 15% loss is better than locking the remaining 85% at a loss. this decisions should be clear cut economics, no emotional attachment.
Swig never owned any portion of 40 Broad or had any involvement in it. Zamir bought it directly from Tishman Speyer as an office building in 2005. Loftparade: Please don't make things up. Some of us here try to rely on the information in these posts to make informed decisions. You can confirm all of these things right on Acris or directly from the NYC department of finance so I'm not sure why you're trying to make things up or what your ulterior motive is, but please do not denigrate the integrity of this very useful website with your misinformation.
Has anyone received any update re: a November 2008 lawsuit by a potential buyer saying there were "sham" closings at the Setai? Here is the article, look at the bottom of the page. Also, anyone have knowledge confirming that the lenders are now involved in the review of bids?
The apartments look nice but it seems unlikely anybody would pay to join the so-called "club". It's $5000/year and all you get is access to the spa, access to a special part of the restaurant, and access to a gym. What were the owners smokin when they came up with this one? That's 3X as much as SoHo House, but without a great location, without a great rooftop pool and other things. The gym and spa are nice, but this is NYC - there are lots of nice gyms and spas. I sure hope the Setai isn't relying on people actually joining this "club" or else common charges for the owners of apartments are going to go way up!
nyc90......i beg to differ.iconfess,i d,ont soho house-------but does it have a top tier restaurant and 18000 foot hi-end spa:as well as a premier conceirge service with event connections?
JRW..you have been quiet for so long...again, after that comment it is further proof you must be affiliated with this development? I feel like your comments are "cut and paste" from the marketing materials...
ibear ibear "further proof".believe noone.if you have a curiosity or interest viit setai.it,s no longer in the realm of faith .its,near completion and beyond compare to anything i,ve seen.i,ve seen them all ,and bought into this club/concept building.
SoHo House has a good restaurant - that you can only eat at if you are a member. Any random guy off the street can eat at the Setai restaurant - he just can't sit in the "special seating area". SoHo House has a great Spa; but there are lots of very high end spas in NYC - and you don't need to pay $5000/year before ever walking in the door for a treatment. Premier conceirge service? Every other high-end new developement built in the last three years offers one. Remind me again what I get that is worth $5000/year at the Setai club?
I think that apartment at the Setai are really nice - in fact, for those who bought in early in the marketing process, I think they were a really good deal. The prices they are now offering are, in my opinion, inflated. Having said all that, $5000 to join the club seems insane.
i don't understand that and it drives me NUTS!! it's like going to a beach hotel and then charging for beach chairs!!! include it in the price!
jrw, already been to the Setai and everytime someone makes a negative comment about the property I do not need to provide a superlative filled response from the marketing materials. Also, please work on your grammar and typing...
how do you move into this place? it's got no car access. deliveries will be difficult.
i live downtown, is it worth checking out for the fun of it
I put a deposit down in early 2007 and have just been told closings will not start until September 2009. Anyone got any information on this, all the early literature said occupancy early fall 2007, then it drifted to early 2008 and now here we are, every six months they put it back six months. Can we ever walk away from this thing?
what floor did you purchase? i'm on 18 and they told me June/July about 2 months ago.
I am also in contract at the Setai. This building is absurd. I have promises for closings in Fall 2008. This has become a joke.
I have been exploring alternatives to walk away and there are several potential strategies to do this. If you are interested to join me, please email me at walkawayfrom40Broad@gmail.com
Am out of town for a few days but will contact you when I get back. I still like the building and really do not care if I am slightly underwater in terms of the purchase price but I'm just getting tired of being consistently lied to by people who are acting in good faith, the actual sales reps, but are being fed bad information by the sponsors. I really do not care who is or is not a member of the 'Setai Club' I just want my f****** apartment!
This building must appeal to amenity whores - no other reason for buying in this building - it's not a great location imo - and at over $1200ppsf expensive - and judging by the posts here not available yet. Oh and they've been giving free 'membership' to the club to certain celebrities - so there you go you can hang out with renee zellwiger (one of the offerees)- must be reason enough to live there :)
Given that I am moving in there (I hope) and was not particularly enticed by the amenities...
The finishes and aesthetics are far better than comparable buildings in the area, I looked at Beaver 20Pine and 15 Broad before I put down my deposit. The price at the time was actually far better for The Setai, Beaver was far more expensive and the layouts at 20Pine and 15 Broad were quirky to say the least, The Setai's use of the space was far better.
If you do not think it is a great location you do not need to live there... those of us who like the area like it whether or not you do. And specifically if you are on the front of the building facing Broad its actually a hell of a lot lighter than many of the buildings downtown.
If I were in my apartment for a year now, which I should have been, I would be one happy bunny, but I'm not and I'm mad as hell about it.
And you can shove celebrities where the sun don't shine, as far as I am concerned thats the biggest minus about the building, having others come in and use the facilities.
I have heard conflicting reports on how many apartments are actually in contract. The sales office assures me that 80% or more are in contract, however, I have heard other reports from people that have done far more research than I have that the true number of people in contact there is closer to 40%-50%. Can somebody shed some light on this?
I suggest attempting to reach the sponsor's lawyer's office and asking them. Do not take anything the sales office says as truth.
ToxicTeddy, the sales office also said the units would be completed in October 2008...clearly they got that one right!! Total joke. I would not believe ANYTHING they say...
anyone here anything new new about this place? about 3 months ago they told me June/July closing. for those who bought, are you hearing the same thing?
Sales office responds that cancellations are propietary information. WIthout information concerning cancellations, what ever percentage of previously reported sales is of little use.
I heard Sho just opened...has anyone heard anything re: closings? This msg board is very quiet for a condo building that is LONG delayed...
one by one they start to fall. at least stock market bubbles deflate fairly quickly. this RE bubble is painfully slow, but very interesting to watch.
Cipriani is ran by robbers, 20 Pine is full of rats, William Beaver House fell along time ago, 75 Wall is delayed as well and not near being completed.
If you want to live in the area... Your best bet is Setai. People are making it sound like the building going under like 25 Broad Street. Last time I hear, the building is complete. The amenities are finished and have opened. They have the TCO... People are moving in August. WHat about the other buildings??? They are a BIG mess....
Its just a better opportunity to negotiate and get a good deal.
Oh! In regards to SHO, the food and service is good. I went with my husband the other night. We liked it!
I have just sent in my new ammended contract, as far as I'm concered I have just got a windfall. I have been to SHO twice now and am actually relieved to be finally gettin my hands on the apt.
It has been a disgrace that I have had to wait over two years but now we are here that is a sunk cost and I seriously doubt I will get a better deal than I now have!
Care to elaborate on your "deal"? I would like to know what you think of a deal compared to the other purchasers.
I'm not sure it is fair to the building or indeed to other purchasors to elaborate on the 'deal' in a public forum such as this.
I think I could probably have done even better but I don't really want to hold the developer's feet to the flames, safe to say that I will be furnishing my place from boutique furniture store in Soho rather than from Ikea now.
A quick factual question for Setai purchasers about your offering plan. The plan has two important dates -- the first operating year in Schedule B, and the estimated first closing date.
The facts in various articles seem to be in conflict on these dates -- so I'd just like to know the facts (I'm looking at the contract for another building, and just trying to understand precisely how the AG regs have been applied to the facts).
First Operating year (Schedule B). Was it June 1, 2007-May 31, 2008, or Sept 1, 2007-Aug 30, 2008, or some other date?
And estimated first closing date? Did the plan promise "September 2007" or "September 30, 2007" or some other date?
Many thanks for the info, and congratulations on what sounds like a good result for you buyers.
Have buyers received their deposits yet?
I just got an offering plan and am considering buying a one bedroom. I am about to pull the trigger and sign the contract, but I see that only 8 sales have been recorded. Should I be worried that this building is going under in some way? Are they going to turn these into rental properties - which would surely reduce the market value of my condo. The place is really nice and I got a great deal though, way way below original price. Anyone that has moved in that can shed some light on the building would be great! thanks.
search this website about the setai. Thought I remember reading some bad things about it financially recently.
do NOT buy a condo right now....really
AnonMan, can you elaborate on your warning? Are speaking about the Setai in particular or the real estate market as a whole? I was also wondering if anybody had any specific comments about the financial status of this building.
I had heard that Setai sold about 70% of its apartments but missed the drop-dead date for the first closing. As a result, the Attorney General required the sponsor to give all purchasers the right to rescind their purchase agreements. Most or all purchasers did so; some used the opportunity to negotiate a lower price. The issue, in my mind, is that with only 8 recorded sales, the sponsor is unlikely to be able to pay off its construction loan anytime soon. I would be asking myself what happens if the construction lender decides to call the loan and foreclose on the building. I'm not expert on those situations, but if I were to purchase in the Setai (or another building with similar issues, such as 75 Wall or William Beaver House), I would want to understand what agreement, if any, exists between the construction lender and the sponsor as well as what would happen if the construction lender foreclosed. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to those questions. Perhaps somebody else on this board or your attorney can enlighten us. I know I didn't provide any answers for you, but perhaps I pointed you to what questions to ask.
My friend sued for his deposit back and successfully so as they proved the one closing within the date parameters was a sham closing.
I don't what the status of the building is today however. I imagine fairly close to 1000 per sq ft to close today.
It would be a dissaster. If the lender foreclosed the developer would likely retaliate by throwing the development into bankruptcy. If that were to happen all expenses for the bldg would stop being paid, all lenders would become creditors of the bldg and the 8 closed units would be responsibe for all common charges and taxes for the entire development. Now, this franly won't happen even if the construction lender has to negotiate his loan and take cents on the dollar because if he did take action you would not see one more unit close and the entire loan would become a huge write down for the bank. Lots of bldgs are now in technical defaults on loans (this one may be as well for all we know) but banks are pretending not to notice or allowing it to go on as they prey sales pick up. For now that is all they can do. For now at least it is in the developers and lenders interest to work something out.
while i am sure it is a fabulous property and very tempting i will state the obvious, it is a HUGE, HUGE risk. I live in a building 60% sold and that makes me nervous, so 8 units would freak me out. the propery is an example of pre august (08) life and we are not going back there any time soon. there are a lot of luxury (without being over the top) great apartments out there. i would say the risk is just too high.
also would think it would need to be all cash.
just curious (without getting too detailed) how great are the deals???
I have been hearing around 35% off ask is about where this building and several others downtown (District, 20 Pine) end up for larger apartments.
If you like the bldg so much, why not rent there for a while.
There are many buildings that claim the status of luxury, however in reality there are only two downtown that are prepared to deliver. The first is 55 Wall and second is the Setai. When I was released from my original contract at the Setai, I looked at everything else in the financial district - 20 Pine, William Beaver, 75 Wall Street, 55 Wall Street and 25 Broad. I put an offer in at 55 Wall Street, but it was rejected by the Sponsor. They escaped much of the downturn, and therefore are happy to rent the remaining units. The Setai due the circumstances of the forced recession was prepared to offer significantly better terms. I resigned for another unit at a different price. There is also recent news that the sponsor restructured the previous loan and has more than enough to finish the project. The Spa is about to open, the restaurant has been open for a while - great food - 29's across the board with Zagats with one Michelin Star. You have a full Spa, a top restaurant with free breakfast, great finishes and far more of the other amenities that other buildings claim to offer. The same people who tell you to not buy a condo now, are probably the same ones that were lining up when there was a frenzy. In terms of an investment I think that it is important to gauge the properties where a foreign purchaser would be interested in buying, and the Setai is one of them. The longer you wait at the Setai , the more difficult it will be to negotiate a good price. Maybe you should take the advice of the previous poster and rent for a while, and then maybe you will get in at 1,200 a foot. Most of the people that blog on these things can’t afford it even if it was 500 a foot.
Meant to say forced rescission above.
Mota: I wouldn't be too sure about what SE bloggers can afford. Careful investors who take the time to learn as much as possible to protect their investment --for example on serious web sites-- generally have well established assets. Particularly those who made money in NY real estate.
As for the Setai, I am sure it is beautiful because I am familiar with the Miami property. And perhaps you are correct, this is the time to get a great deal which will pay off substantially in the future -- that kind of bet is certainly one way to make serious money and I wish you well. However, troubled buildings in troubled economies beget trouble. There is always the possibility of bankruptcy. There is the possibility of a white knight and there is the possibility that a white knight could go bankrupt. There is the possibility you could lose the brand name which would mean a nice building with fine finishes and no restaurant, no spa, etc.-- just another nice building. There is the possibility the few owners could be saddled with the costs of the entire building -- that is a common occurrence in this economy. And, foreign purchasers in the past few years were also counting on making money when the dollar recovered. While there is certainly more play in that trade now, the dollar's rebound is not certain and many foreigners have already been toasted in this market. So you may not be able to count on the foreigners. While you may prepared to take on all that risk, I don't think you should castigate those who are cautious. There is great reason to be so.
and btw, mota, from the last sale listed, 18G, the price is now $1000 per sq ft not $1200. Hope you didn't get in at 1200 when there was a better deal to be had
Mota, you convinced me, I'm in.
Of course it is important to conduct signficant due diligence on any purchase. I just do not see you get good information from these types of blogs. You should know that they have restructured - and you should know the amount of the loan. I think that all those that have made an existing purchase should let the public record post their price, and not a forum such as this. I mentioned 1,200 a foot as this is what "renting for a while" will ultimately get you. There is always risk. To the extent that the bank takes over an condominium, the bank is responsible for the common charges for the unsold units. As a purchaser you are only responsible for the common charge of your unit. A bankruptcy may result in a time period where no common charges are being paid. While you are in contract, to the extent that there is any bankruptcy you get your money back. After you close, you have title, and are of course subject to any new direction that a new developer coming into a project may go. The only logical choice would be a portion hotel, such as Miami. It would be illogical for a incoming developer at a lower price point to take the project in a totally different direction, especially when all the costs have already been sunk. If you are looking for a plain vanilla condo, there are plenty around. Now is the time to get a good price for what I certainly expect to a great building. One can always have a clause where you do not have to close until X number are in contract - this is a method of obtaining a small measure of protection from the uncertainty. In short, in terms of bang for your buck, you are going to get a lot more at the Setai than the other "luxury" buildings in the Financial District.
Mota, I think you could benefit from spending more time on RE websites. Particularly if you think unit owners couldn't be responsible for carrrying charges of other distressed units.
For whatever its worth - another added plus is there is no common charge until the building is 40 percent occupied. This is of course subject to the sponsors continuing ability to see the project through, but something that may be of interest to early purchasers.
"This is of course subject to the sponsors continuing ability to see the project through,"
Well yes, you make my point exactly.
what about the visionaire downtown, how does that compare even though its not in the financial district, in bpc.
I am going to end my input at this point other than to confirm that Apt23's entries serve to confirm that you cannot get good information from blogs. What of substance has apt23 contributed? Everyone has to make their own decision based upon all information; however, I would caution potential purchasers from relying upon blogs from people who know little to nothing about the building - such as Apt23, with meaningless references to "white knights" and talk of common occurrences of a "few owners being saddled with entire building costs." Perhaps apt23 will be so kind to enlighten us of the "common occurrences" in Manhattan of such occurrences?
Only a few apartments have sold. I realize the sponsor has dropped the prices, but there is no indication the remaining apartments are selling quickly. If the apartments don't sell for several years, there is a very real chance the sponsor will bankrupt the project or the lender will foreclose on it. That leaves the existing owners responsible for all the common charges. You may not care about the restaurant and spa (although the lack thereof would certainly decrease the value of the property) but you might care about paying for the doormen, maintenance, heat/AC in common areas, insurance and all the other things your common charges pay for. I'm not saying the Setai will be a disaster - all I am saying is that there is a big risk in buying there now. It may pay off quite well for you and others who buy now (and I certainly hope it does) but it could easily turn into a financial disaster as well. Some people are willing to take that risk, others would prefer the stability of a building that is 100% sold or even a co-op with very tight standards.
To say that good information is not found on this board and others like it is just silly. While a lot of non-sense appears on this board, so to does a lot of good information and advice. Buyers who read this blog (or others like it) are fair more educated than someone who simply wakes up and decides the purchase one day.
Mota: It is not common in Manhattan -- yet. But it has happened repeatedly in Miami, in Phoenix, in California and in Las Vegas. It is common place in newspapers across the country that tenants in distressed buildings end up having to carry the charges for the entire building because the developer -- who cannot service his debt-- stops paying carrying charges on his inventoried apts. There are countless cases of banks not picking up the carrying charges of foreclosed properties which they are required to do because -particularly regional banks-- they are at risk of closing and the carrying charges of their underwater holdings are not of concern to them.
It is also not common for a building or a brand as luxe and established The Setai to be distressed in Manhattan yet that is what has happened -- just like in other distressed cities. What makes you think the rest of the problems of distressed buildings won't hit as well? Maybe this case will be different. Maybe it won't happen at the Setai -- but it is COMMON knowledge that there is risk involved in distressed buildings. Why do you think RE2009 posted the way he did -- it is common knowledge.
This was a landmarked case because the tenants won. It was a middle class building that now looks like a homeless shelter. I am not posting it because it bears any resemblance to the Setai, only because it was a case where the tenants finally won. Luxury buildings also had problems in banks and developers paying carrying charges in every distressed city. If I had the time, I could find countless examples because I have read these stories in countless newspapers across the country. use google and find them yourself.
MOTA; your knowledge,expectations,and assessments are right on.And yes,most bloggers here,i believe, know nothing,have nothing,and do nothing.The SETAI is a one-of-a-kind condo/club ever closer to achieving masterpiece status.Yes, there is always risk;but i wouldn't lose sleep on a purchase here,at the new prices:I own here.
Don't come crying to us in two years if people don't buy the remaining 85% of the apartments and the building goes into foreclosure...If you do, we will all say "I told you so!"
ahem, visionaire anyone?
Don't worry Mr. downtown1234 - I won't come crying to you. You must be right - such comments coming from a "fair more educated person" such as you. Sounds to me you are probably one those 5% down people - the same type that got the market in this mess to begin with!
rangers- what is your reference to visionaire about?
This is the pattern that has happened in all of the cities that experienced real estate bubbles. New York is not an exception. The lawsuits begin, which expose the developers distress, and buyers flee. The downward spiral continues. As for the Setai, how long do you think the distressed developers can keep that restaurant open. We all know how secure that business is in this economy.
10/09, 22G sold for $550k. 12/08, 11G sold for $860k. no floorplans, so it might not be a good comp. but if they are the same line, and would be unusual for higher floor units to be smaller (although in fidi maybe to maximize number of units with views), this can't make the purchaser of 11G very happy.
26G is listed as 784 sf. if 22G is the same, that's just over $700 psf for amenity-rich but failing new construction. still seems overpriced to me.
"Aboutready" does not seem close to ready if you think you are going to get in for anything close to 700 a square foot. 22G (570 SF) = 965 a foot; 18G (570 SF) 1,000 a foot, 14A (931 SF) 983 a foot. I think you should change your name to "notclosetoready"!!! Anyone that gets in for under a 1,000 a foot should be very happy - as sales continue the prices are only going to increase. To even say that 700 a foot is overpriced, just goes to show how delusional some of these characters on these blogs really are. On the other note of the lawsuit, the plaintiff investor made a whopping investment of 4 million in a 225 million project. He is just trying to pull out his small share as it gets diluted relative to the loan being restructured with the bank. The only thing that is important is the bank and its position to the building, not a bit player with a 4 million equity investment. The plaintiff is not even 1.7 percent of the total project. Newspapers will write anything to make a headline. The important news that was previously reported is that the bank has increased the lending towards the project and this confirms that the bank wants to see the project though. No big headlines in that story - for the clown who wrote the lawsuit story could probably not think of headline. This website is not even accurate in terms of closing and units in contract. There are significantly more than 9 in contract - last reported - 24 in contract and 12 closed total of 36 sales with apparently several other contracts out for signature.
i did confess that i had no access to floor plans. mota, you haven't read my stuff. i should be notf'ngready. but i started posting here years ago, when i actually was fairly certain that i wanted to buy. too lazy to change the name.
are 11G and 22G the same size?
mota" just goes to show how delusional some of these characters on these blogs really are."
The great thing is that in about 6 months we will be able to revisit this site and determine exactly who was delusional. Right now, it looks like there is a 36% price drop if 11G and 22G are the same size and that is not taking into account the difference in floor height and views.
Mota, I understand your reasons for championing a project that you have a financial interest in. However, others might be concerned about the nature of the lawsuit, the cost over runs, the developer's dishonesty in trying to present a scam buyer to make the closing on time, etc. The fact that there are a number of contracts would suggest that prices have significantly dropped. And as the price of 22G is now public, prices might have further to drop. There is risk in this project and prices are beginning to reflect that risk.
Aboutready is generally very accurate with her posts and has a history on this site. If you wanted to back up your posts with accurate information rather than just make claims about closings, you could list the ACRIS closings to prove that Streeteasy's information is not correct. Since you did not, I would say your information is suspect.
Sorry for the insult. I just get a little upset when I see people crapping on my investment. 11G is 729SF and 22G is 570SF.
Really suggest for those that are interested to negotiate now that the developer is in need of contracts. Once they get to 50% sold, the prices are going to go up. If you have provisions written into the contract on percentage of closing, and if the project fails for whatever reason you will get your money back. Now is the time to try and locate the developers that are in need and try and get value.
apt23 - you must stay on this blog 24 - 7. I cannot understand if you truly are not interested in the building, then why all the negative input. My only conclusion, is someone with too much time on their hands or someone paid by a competitor to drive sales their way. Once again, apt23 11G and 22G are not the same size. For once, please post something of substance.
Mota- i am sure you have a fab apt and i hope it works out. i completely understand the emotions but this is the internet and this is a blog... sometimes you get great helpful info, sometimes neutral and sometimes idiots!!!! if it bothers you don't read it. i had a similar experience when i tried to sell my place, this blog trashed it!!! guess what- the place sold!! take it all with a grain of salt and enjoy your new place.
mota: I am a small time investor in real estate. i live in every apt. i buy and I flip them with some regularity. When i was doing research in miami before buying, i was appalled at the scams the developers pulled on unsuspecting buyers. I followed buildings and developers closely to determine which ones might default in an effort to determine the right time to buy. I am doing that now in NY. I am following many new buildings and many developers because I think if a major developer defaults, as they did in Miami, it will affect NY real estate--again, just like it did in Miami.
The Setai is beautiful and I hope your building does well. I do not wish you any misfortune. You have taken a risk and perhaps it will pay off for you in a big way. I hope so. But that doesn't mean other buyers should not research the building and the developers thoroughly before buying -- and the history of troubled buildings in other cities with real estate bubbles. Maybe we can all avoid being victims of troubled developers and make sure we purchase in buildings with sound financials. The fact that so many people are in contract now at the Setai might mean that informed buyers have been convinced of the viability of the project. I hope so. I have no evidence that the developers can't service their debt and I don't think you have evidence that they can. I post on this thread because you continue to extoll the virtues of this building without acknowledging any risk whatsoever. Perhaps you should take midtowngal's sage advice and just enjoy your apt. and not post on this thread. It draws more attention. I will continue to follow news about this building, and others, to assess the strength of the market.
The SETAI has a daily workforce of about 100 contractors;which gives evidence that the banks are funding this project to comletion.Moreover,all but the newly built-out,top 5 floors have been TCO'D.As I know it,MOTA is INFORMED,while others herein,are blabbers.