If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Upper West Side Edition

755 Westend Ave 5c in contract for less than a million (information from a source, couple didn't want to pay mansion tax)
2C sold in 2007 for $1.7, 42% drop in price? 5c needed the bathrooms redone and while the kitchen was new, the choices in design were not very attractive.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364276-coop-755-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

Wow. Nice way to kick off the discussion.

sam, if that's true, that is truly incredible. less than $1 million? and by the way, i disagree about the bathrooms. i thought they were absolutely fine as they are, and if anything could use a little polishing up but certainly not a redo. that apartment is in fine shape. the only thing that really needs to be redone is the little laundry room.

this apartment was perfectly reasonable at 1.6 at the peak. it's a different world.

thanx w81. this is my favorite thread. should have known it's title.

Here is what is wrong with your story. This is a co-op. You do not pay mansion tax on a co-op because you do not own property.
So what else could be wrong with this story??

Ruff: I'm very sorry to inform you that you do pay mansion tax on a co-op even though it's not real property. Please google it.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE4DF143DF930A3575BC0A960948260

This article is from 1986, when the mansion taxed kicked in at 500k.

NYC mansion tax includes coops. Section 1402-a

"a tax is hereby imposed on each conveyance of residential real property or interest therein when
the consideration for the entire conveyance is one million dollars or more. For purposes of this section, residential real property shall include . . . a cooperative apartment unit.

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/tax/TAX01402-A_1402-A.html

Source is good. I have been looking that apt for some time. It just wasn't the right one.

I liked this apartment. Not my time yet to buy, and would prefer downtown, but layout really worked. Very encouraged to hear it went for $1M.

I was pretty stunned to see this at/under $1MM as well (would be nice to get "official" confirmation, of course). Square footage looks around 1450 to me, which would put this under $700psf. Wow.

180 RSD "E" line (large, east-facing classic six):

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
01/08/2009 . #3E $1,675,000 -5.6% |↓ $1,775,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths
03/04/2008 . #4E ......................| . $2,395,000 3 beds 3 baths
07/30/2007 #12E $2,025,000 -7.7% |↓ $2,195,000 3 beds 3 baths
06/28/2006 #12E $2,195,000 .......... | . $2,195,000 Sold 3 beds 3 baths
04/14/2005 . #7E $1,610,000
09/15/2004 . #9E $1,350,000

All of the 2006-2009 sales were nicely renovated units. Obviously, nine floors of elevation account for much of the price difference between #3E and #12E, though neither apartment has much of a view. On the other hand, #3E went to contract in early September, before Lehman or the stock market collapse.

Interesting to note that the peak comp is from 2006, and that the same apartment resold at a substantial loss in 2007.

that's a strong price for 3E. given what we've been seeing more recently my sense is this apartment would not command that price right now--perhaps not even close. it's a very dark apartment.

I don't have much info on these apartments--no listings available--but assuming similar condition this looks like movement:
264 Riverside Drive
Recorded Sales
01/06/2009 #8B $600,000 -
02/27/2008 #9B $710,000 -
07/12/2007 #6B $625,000 -
06/16/2004 #7B $575,000

does anyone know what happened to this apt?
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/300933-coop-315-west-106th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york

i guess they couldn't get the price they wanted? i contacted the broker a month ago about coming to see it and never heard back

It's listed as "Permanently off the Market"...

RE 180 rsd 3E, what is a classic 6.5 - is it particular to this unit?

2770 Broadway (Straus Park Condo) "D" line (3 BR/2.5BA, 1,546; high floor have Cathedral views). #14B was just reduced to $1.495MM - still above pre-construction pricing, but probably below what it would have fetch once the building was habitable.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ....... #14D .....................|↓ $1,495,000 3 beds 1,546 ft²
12/29/2008 . #7D .....................|↓ $1,595,000 3 beds 2 baths 1,546 ft²
08/25/2007 #11D .....................|↓ $1,895,000 3 beds 2.5 baths 1,546 ft²
12/30/2005 . #3D $734,000
07/13/2005 #15D $1,800,000
04/06/2005 #11D $1,500,000
03/28/2005 . #8D $1,300,000
01/18/2005 . #7D $1,300,000
01/18/2005 #10D $1,235,000
01/07/2005 #14D $1,304,000
01/04/2005 #12D $1,289,000
12/14/2004 . #9D $1,460,000
12/08/2004 . #6D $1,200,000
12/07/2004 . #5D $1,325,000
12/02/2004 . #4D $1,095,000

i have the flu--please entertain me!
in the meantime, no premium for 12 stories and a renovation at the Mayfair:

Active Listings
15 West 72nd Street #21V 1 bed ↓ $839,000

Recorded Sales
01/29/2008 #9V $835,000

Love this thread West81st... keep'er going sir! Will try to add if I see anything interesting...

not to mention a significant decline for low floor M line (3M is an estate so condition could be the issue, although 4M appeared to need work as well)

Recorded Sales:
01/12/2009 #3M $600,000
07/16/2008 #4M $700,000 -6.5% $749,000 Sold 1 bed 1 baths

not to mention no premium--and, in fact, a 7% decline if it gets asking--for 14 floors in the R line:

Active listings
15 West 72nd Street #17R 1 bed 725 ft² ↓ $725,000

Recorded sales
01/28/2008 #3R $770,000 -3.1% $795,000 Sold 1 bed 1 baths 750 ft²

260 West End Avenue "C" line (Large 1BR, 850 sq.ft.; high floors have open city views). #15C was just reduced to $569K.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ...... #15C .....................|↓ $569,000 1 bed 850 ft²
11/08/2008 . #3C .....................|$769,000 Off-Market 1 bed 1 baths
01/11/2008 #10C $755,000 -1.3% | . $765,000 1 bed 1 baths 850 ft²
09/25/2007 . #8C $605,000 +1.0% |↓ $599,000 1 bed 1 baths
09/20/2006 #16C $772,005 -3.4% |↓ $799,000 Sold 1 bed 1 baths
10/28/2005 . #9C $750,000
05/17/2004 . #4C $511,888

#16C was a gut reno. Condition on #10C and #15C appears similar: updated, but not as extensively as #16C. Could #15C be "the one" for Julia? In any case, $599K is a 2004 price.

Sorry, that should read: "...$569K is a 2004 price." And it might even be below 2004, depending on condition.

15C at 260 WEA requires a new kitchen, but that grandfathered W/D is sure nice. I don't remember about the bathroom, I saw it a while ago when it was still over the 600k mark.

hsw9001: Thanks. I think there are still folks in the market for a 1BR who could live with a crappy 80s kitchen for a while if the price were right; but you're right that equalizing #15C and #16C probably requires a five-figure allowance for the kitchen.

310 West 79th Street "C" line. 1BR/1BA ~750 sq.ft. maint. ~$1050-1100

#8C, which is nicely renovated, was reduced by $126K today, to $699K. That's $4K less than the owners paid in February 2006, and 17% below the closing price for #7C in March 2008. #7C was gutted more extensively (e.g. new floors), but it wasn't visibly nicer.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ........ #8C .....................|↓ $699,000 1 bed 787 ft²
03/10/2008 . #7C $840,000 -1.1% | . $849,000 Sold 1 bed 1 baths
05/11/2007 . #5C $755,000 +8.6% | . $695,000 1 bed 1 baths 750 ft²
02/28/2006 . #8C $703,000 -1.7% | .$715,000 1 bed 1 baths
09/09/2005 . #6C $710,000 .........|
09/28/2004 . #5C $558,000 .........|
09/15/2004 #14C $550,000 .........|

I find this new listing very illuminating, especially considering the source:

334 West 86th Street (a.k.a. 332) "C" line. Classic six, ~1500 sq.ft. All rooms face south/rear. Maint. ~$1600-1700

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/332-west-86-street-manhattan
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1072470

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
NEW LISTING #5C ...................... | $1,250,000 2 beds 2 baths 1500 ft²
10/11/2005 . #5C $1,400,000 ......... |
08/17/2004 . #7C $1,305,000 ......... |

I don't know whether the renovated kitchen and washer/dryer in #5C are the work of the current owners. Either way, here you have one of the top brokers on the UWS - Elliman's top gun - telling us that the pre-war classic six market is at least 11% below Q3/Q4 2005. And that's her introductory asking price. Now, it's possible that Ann is trying to spark a bidding war, but I think she knows those days are over. More likely, the sellers will take the first reasonable offer.

Meanwhile, watch for a flight to quality brokers like Lenane if sellers panic. She and Kory and Lippman and the like would do very well in a bloodbath, while a lot of lesser brokers would have to find another line of work.

That's interesting info on Lehane. She has a listing in a building that we love and have friends in. It's currently 2M, but our friends insist it will come down to our budget (1.6 max). I find it hard to believe, but if she's as astute as you say she is, maybe we need to go see it.

West81st I added that W/D comment b/c that unit is one of the few apartments in that building allowed to have one and you are able to replace it. To me, that is a fantastic amenity only about 10% of Manhattan apartments have. If that price keeps dropping lower, maybe even I'll be tempted. I'm holding off b/c I'm now wondering if Classic 6's will come down to the $1M mark, particularly those in estate condition. A Classic 6 is about 2x more space that I need but if good opportunites arise . . .

LOL, at one point I had two pairs of full-sized brand-new washer & dryer in my UWS apt :)

hsw9001: Great point about the washer/dryer. As for the price point on classic sixes, the low end does seem to be approaching $1MM. There isn't enough data yet to support strong conclusions.

Lostintransit: I'll be impressed if you mean 420 RSD, because it's one of the funkiest apartments on the market. Cool as it is, there's no particular reason to think it won't fall another 20%. The Beekman listing looks beautiful. The $2 psf maintenance is killing it, even with the two-year rebate. There's no obvious floor under that one either. Happy hunting.

By the way, I should have mentioned Lense too among the brokers who will benefit if sellers rush for the exit. There are others, of course, but they represent a small slice of the RE workforce.

Consolidation has been happening for a while. There are a couple of other star brokers besides the ones you mentioned. A common trait is the ability to price well.

nyc10023, hsw9001

I stand corrected, sorry!

If niche stars like Guerrieri, Pashby and Del Nunzio start trading in volume, you'll know Rome is really burning. I was thinking more about the middle range.

Guerrieri has way more listings than he usually does, so Rome has already started smoking. So does Pashby (I really like her, btw).

Good point. Del Nunzio's dance card is quite full too. Mostly UES and GV, which I guess is normal for her.

either way, J. Pashby is still hot, whether she sell apts or not!

334 west 86th is quite an interesting listing i agree. unlike 755 west end, which really was a low-end classic six, i think this one is more at the low end of middle-tier. it's pretty small, but the layout takes advantage of all the space quite well. more to the point, if lenane really thinks we are at 2004 or more likely 2003 prices--that's what this is--it's kind of hard to argue with her. i think that classic sixes east of broadway in the 90s, or north of 103rd, or between amsterdam and columbus in the high 80s, are going to be under very serious pressure is this is really where prices are going.

Another confluence of IYCDMMWC and bold-face name-dropping on CPW:

In late 2003, Angelina Jolie bought 55 CPW #11F in estate condition. She put it back on the market the next yearat $2.749MM, without having done much to fix up: http://www.striblingny.com/propinfo.asp?webid=SAU3953&type=SALE

It sold for $2.8MM: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/17182

The Kaufmans embarked on an ambitious renovation, the results of which are visible in this new Corcoran listing: http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1484148

50% appreciation in four years? Not bad if they can get somebody to pay it, right? Perhaps, I actually read this new listing as evidence of deterioration in the low-luxe bracket. Here's the comp history:

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
NEW LISTING . #11F ......................... | . $4,200,000 2 beds 3 baths 1,960 ft²
09/21/2007 . #3F $4,150,000 ............ |↓ $4,150,000 2 beds 2.5 baths
10/20/2004 #11F $2,800,000 +1.9% | . $2,749,000 2 beds 3 baths

#3F was more modestly renovated than #11F is. More importantly, the views from the two apartments are altogether different. #3F overlooks a transverse and Tavern on the Green. #11F has a spectacular view of Central Park to the east and southeast. To see #11F priced - AS AN INTRODUCTORY ASK - at the level where #3F traded fifteen months ago is stunning. Or maybe it's the runup to that 2007 level that should be shocking.

This will be one to watch, for anyone looking in the $3-4MM range.

81..or ..one to watch in the $2-3mm range

Maybe... 67% down... $2 psf maintenance...

I doubt it, though. There's still a lot of cash in this town, and there's only one Central Park.

W81...wrt 55 CPW...there is a great example of someone trying to use a single 'comp' to create a market. An unkowning buyer has no chance.

and that is one gorgeous apartment. it should certainly have the 15 cpw sellers quaking in their boots. would you rather live in a stunning 6 at 65 for 4.2, or a smaller (albeit still lovely) 4 roomer at 15 CPW for 7.25?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/358622-condo-15-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

previously marketed for $9 million, by the way.

tough choice.

Yep. And you can say that you live in the "Ghostbusters" building!

HR: It would only take about 250 years to make up the difference in monthlies.

Seriously, if 15 CPW ever loses the aura of being a world unto itself, prices there will probably revert to a level consistent with other top CPW buildings. And to be fair, that's roughly where they started out in the initial offering.

west81st,

i agree with you about the initial offering--not bad. it's the people who bought in the intervening period who could get pretty screwed. well, if there is an enormous crash even the initial buyers will get screwed, but only at the same rate as other CPW buyers.

15% cut on a nice UWS one bedroom, now asking less than the sale price in 2006:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/320385-coop-310-west-72nd-street-lincoln-square-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
02/28/2006
Previous sale closed for $703,000
07/22/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $850,000
07/31/2008
Price decreased to $825,000
01/15/2009
Price decreased to $699,000

Recorded Sales:
03/10/2008 #7C $840,000 -1.1%
05/11/2007 #5C $755,000
02/28/2006 #8C $703,000
09/09/2005 #6C $710,000
09/28/2004 #5 C $558,000
09/15/2004 #14C $550,000

There has been so much turnover in this line, it is really instructive. The run-up between 2004 and 2008 was just enormous--35% on 5C, but 52% between the sale of 14C and the sale of 7C. It will be interesting to see if this one trades around the 2005/2005 prices of 700k, or around the 2004 prices of 550k. or somewhere else.

I'm sorry, haven't people been complaining of no movement in one bedrooms? there's certainly a lot today:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/347656-coop-246-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

246 West End 12F
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/09/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $699,000
01/17/2009
Price decreased to $649,000

Recorded Sales:
06/07/2007 #7F $718,000
06/06/2006 #10F $630,000

This is a back-facing apartment with somewhat blocked views, and my sense is that the extra floors make a big difference, so the movement may be more significant than it looks. fantastic building, by the way, and pretty reasonable maintenance for full-service in a prime location.

The 12F rental knocked down too:

12/21/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $2,900
01/17/2009
Price decreased to $2,600

what are you guys talking about?

prices are only going up. all the apartments i'm looking at are getting more, not less, expensive. as soon as sellers see my face, they raise their price.

Not exactly a top building--no doorman, so hard to compare it to other WEA prewar apartments. but comparing it to comps in the building it appears that either the premium for a larger apartment is gone, or we are at pre-2004 pricing:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/375948-coop-425-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

425 West End 4AB just came back on the market at 3.25.

Recorded Sales:
06/16/2005 #4A $1,250,000 -
04/20/2005 #2A $1,250,000 -
10/29/2004 #7B $2,000,000

4AB seems way over priced...approx 2,500sft..won't trade at$1,300per. classic sixes in decent shape on RSD and WEA traveling for $850psft. This apt might go $2,200,000

it may be way over priced--i dare say it is--but it is asking what the component apartments asked in 04/05.

hpr: yep, I smell what you're cookin

Did the Belafontes finally get around to merging those apartments at 425 WEA? It's ambiguous whether the little 4x6 piece of the public hallway between the two entrances has been incorporated (which was the prior listing agent's suggestion).

what is it with the belafontes and west end combinations?

I thought the Belafontes were at 300 WEA...

this is his son

...and Mom and Dad are in the Apple Bank building... and Abigail Disney is trying to unload Harry's old spread...

One thing I've noticed, by the way, is that "provenance" ain't worth much in market value.

Not in this market anyway. I sort of thought something similar in terms of the star quality of 15 CPW that I think was responsible for the unbelievable prices paid on the way up. For the privilege of living next to so & so . . . except when there isn't anyone left who also is willing to overpay for it and someone wants to sell I think the prices paid will start to come down quickly in that buildng, as one example on this thread already shows.

I'm not sure how to interpret this one:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/335966-coop-490-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

Estate-condition, front-facing classic seven with lots of pre-war detail in a decent building (great location, very nice lobby, limited services/amenities). Asking $2.35MM, closed for $1.85MM in December; went to contract in mid-October. Looks like a significant data point at first glance, but there aren't good prior-sale comps and I didn't like the apartment at all - it needed everything, and felt very small.

I know you couldn't get anything like this for under $2MM in 2007, but I still think this sale may have been the proverbial "falling knife" - especially since #9B is still sitting at $1.975MM and begging for offers.

i'm with you west81st, this one is less than meets the eye. IMHO it compares more with the top-flight classic sixes than with what we tend to think of as sevens, and in this case with classic sixes that require gut renovations. falling knife, indeed.

9B, OTOH, is a far superior situation for the right purchaser. it is the same size, but feels much bigger with its open exposures. and though it needs more than the 'updating' referred to in the advert, it doesn't need everything the way 3B does.

west 81/happyr - can u refresh for me on this building? I think this has a square lit canopy and you go up a few steps. It's a mostly white stone lobby that I have always thought is one of the prettiest on wea - am I thinking of the right building here?

LiquidPaper - Yes, that's the one. I agree about the lobby; in fact, I mentioned it on the "Best lobbies" thread a few weeks ago. The rest of the common spaces in the building aren't as nice, and the building as a whole is probably a step down from 470, 473, 500, 522 etc. But 490 certainly has curb appeal.

HappyRenter: Good post. The orig-cond six at 470 WEA that just went on the market (asking $2.2MM) is probably a better comp for the "B" line at 490 than a bigger seven would be.

100 Riverside Drive "A" line, mid-high floors: Very large classic six. Living room and master face the Hudson. #14A just hit the market asking $2.495MM, or $335K less than #10A fetched last year. http://www.bhsusa.com/detail.aspx?id=986912

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
NEW LISTING . #14A .......................... | . $2,495,000 2 beds 3 baths
05/13/2008 . #7A ............................ |↓ $2,699,000 Off-Market 3 beds 3 baths
03/07/2008 #10A $2,830,000 -5.5% | . $2,995,000 Sold 2 beds 3 baths
03/28/2005 . #9A $2,550,000 ............ | -
10/25/2004 #13A $2,750,000 ............ |

Condition of 14A appears to be OK. The kitchen was expanded and updated at some point, but it's hard to judge any necessary investment without pictures of kitchen and baths.

Looks like another good bellwether, although I consider 100 RSD a half-step down from nearby competitors like 90 and 110/118.

Based on comps, very clearly 100 RSD-14A is down. But man, I dunno. $1400 sp/ft still sounds rich to me. Though truth be told, I'm not as impressed with the RSD area as many others are.

Walterh7: At least $500K of that price is the view - probably more. Even so, I think they're just hoping for something with a "2" handle.

Put that way, it makes more sense to me. Aspirational pricing as they say. How long before the first price cut? Over/under is 4 weeks.

219 West 81st Street (Avonova):

The sponsors of this conversion seem to have put the word out to brokers that the published prices on remaining units are now meaningless, and that the real prices are 20-28% lower. Or it's possible that Allen Davoudpour at Square One is just blowing smoke about getting special prices because he's such a great negotiator. Anyway, here are the numbers:

Unit -- List Price -- | - Square One Price - | - Discount -
. #2A . $2,965,000 .. | .. $2,223,750 ........... 25%
#10E . $1,795,000 .. | .. $1,346,250 ........... 25%
. #4F . $1,730,000 .. | .. $1,384,000 ........... 20%
. #5G . $1,465,000 .. | .. $1,055,000 ........... 28%
. #3D . $1,905,000 .. | .. $1,500,000 ........... 21%
. #5B . $1,985,000 .. | .. $1,564,000 ........... 21%

Square One listings appear in the Times, but not on Streeteasy. For the source data, See:
http://www.squareonenyc.com/index.cfm
and
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/219-west-81st-street-new_york

50 WEST 67TH STREET (The Musician's Building)

It looks like his one keeps going down in price, but no one seems to be buying--It's a total fixer, but a great building on a beautiful street. Faces the street, but totally sound proofed--what's the real per square foot price in this market?

STREETEASY HISTORY
03/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $1,180,000
04/07/2008
Price decreased to $1,125,000
08/13/2008
Price decreased to $1,080,000
01/11/2009
Price decreased to $995,000

Any thoughts or opinions?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/189407-coop-50-west-67th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

600 West 111th, 6D

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/373867-coop-600-west-111th-street-morningside-heights-new-york

According to ACRIS, it sold for 1.395 in 2005 - just went on the market for 1.295. OUCH!

340 West 86th "D" line. The new listing for 8/9D looks like an example of "1 + 1 = 2.5" becoming ".75 + .75 = 1.5".

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
NEW LISTING . #8/9D .......................... | . $1,295,000 3 beds 2 baths
CURRENT ........#11D .......................... | .... $850,000 1 bed 660 ft²
12/21/2007 .. #3D $710,000 -2.1% |↓ . $725,000 Sold 1 bed 1 baths 659 ft²
04/27/2005 .. #4D $610,000 ............ |

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1073730
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/340-west-86-street-manhattan

Condition of the duplex appears excellent. (And say what you will about spiral stairs, they do use space economically.) #11D is in fair condition, and wildly overpriced. #3D was renovated prior to sale. Condition of #4D in 2005 is unknown.

i love it when you use my formula west81st :). actually, that little duplex looks very nice; no floorplan so not sure how they've set it up exactly, but very very nice. this is a major improvement over the 3D price in 2007, and considering the difference in floor, some possible residual bonus for the size, and the unknown condition, could be an improvement over the 05 price. at a minimum it seems competitive with the 05 price. at first glance this apartment seems preferable to some of the low-end classic sixes we've been talking about.

one more thing: it appears that of the top brokers lenane is most aggressively trying to catch up with the price declines. am i right?

I'd say she's the one pricing her new listings most realistically. Every broker with a halfway reasonable seller is cutting the prices on stale listings and begging for bids.

Before we praise ACL too much, keep in mind that she was as guilty as anyone in 2008 of pricing third-rate apartments as though they were trophies, and pretending that nothing had changed. Here's an example:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/346060-coop-6-west-77th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Not a bad property, but a mediocre one that faces the wrong way and was probably overpriced by 30-40% at every stage of its life.

81: good point. But, on a relative basis she seems to be more realistic than most at the moment. As I just posted on another thread, for personal reasons, and more in my wheelhouse, I wish Lippman would get a little more realistic.

That's been my experience with her TOO W81. Here was another massively overpriced ACL listing.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/346059-condo-190-riverside-dr-upper-west-side-new-york

The south view on 11D 340 West 86th is pretty nice as it clears the buildings behind it. But the view is not enough to justify the cost. The eastern view is pretty much a brick wall.

re: Ann Cutbill Lenane...what you are describing is a person who understands markets...good and bad. She gets deals done. That is good for buyers and sellers over the long term. I mean really, what was she to do in the bull market of 2006-2008? Turn down deals because buyers were paying too much?! Do you really expect her to be "the single voice of reason" shooting against an entire market? Not a chance.

Hey, I just defended a RE broker. Is that allowed around here?

walterh7: I agree with your general point, but it doesn't really apply to these particular listings. They debuted after the downturn was already pretty clear, and they didn't sell. My observation was simply that ACL may have been a bit slow to change tactics (slower than Lippman, for example). It's quite clear - at least since her recent sale at 90 RSD - that she's not going to be left behind again.

Ahh...I see your point. Very true.

Have not read all the posts (so sorry if this is moot), but let's not forget that the seller has the last say on pricing - so it is not necessarily the brokers fault if the price is too high. I guess they could tell the seller they won't rep them unless they agree to the suggested price, but I doubt that happens often (no broker wants to lose a listing). I'm sure some owners fall in love with their apts and cannot accept they are not worth as much as they think. I have no experience with ACL, so would defer to those that do though.

100 Riverside Drive #7E. Seller was very smart or very lucky, maybe both. She sold it fast (contract in September, after just eighteen days on the market), took her loss and moved on. Citigroup fallout, I think.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/345549-coop-100-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
12/30/2008 . #7E $1,040,000 -2.8% | . $1,070,000 Sold 2 beds 1 bath 1,170 ft²
02/15/2007 . #7E $1,100,000 ........ |

For what it is worth, we sold our 2BR/2 bath UWS condo in September (closed early that month) for almost 20% over what we paid in mid-2006. Saw our Corcoran broker yesterday by chance and he said right now it would go for about 2005 prices at best (about 10% or so below what we paid in 2006). Lucked out with timing obviously.

Even the Beresford:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361946-coop-211-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

211 CPW 8J
STREETEASY HISTORY
11/04/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,850,000
01/22/2009
Price decreased to $3,500,000

Recorded Sales
01/29/2008 #9J $3,900,000

And an open house to boot . . . what IS this world coming to . . . I wouldn't pay $3mn for that apartment. Call me cynical but I just don't see how it's worth it.

Hey 81 hpr..you know this is my wheelhouse, no heads up....wow..and I always bring weed to the party..ooohh there coming our way..no CP view with 8J, but its coming <1,400psft..for the view by May 1st.

it will trade in six months at 2.6

This isn't much movement--i think still quite overpriced--but interesting only because it seems standard to price a touch below 06 or 05 comps:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376809-coop-411-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

411 West End 4D
Listed at 775K

Recorded Sales
06/13/2006 #5D $795,000 $795,000 1 bed 1 baths 900 ft²
01/03/2006 #15D $990,000

This apartment looks fantastic--not my ideal location, but not a bad, one, and a great layout (Candela building):

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376785-coop-800-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

800 West End 10D
01/23/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,495,000

09/26/2007 #5D $1,835,000
05/23/2007 #13D $1,650,000 +3.5%
02/28/2007 #5D $800,000 (this is the outlier--assume sold by an S and L in Astoria, presumably to an insider who flipped it)
11/29/2004 #15D $1,345,000

There are no condition issues, so even without taking into account the floor disparity we have an asking price off 18.5% from the peak comp. Given the floor disparity, this is well over 20% decline.

There's an interesting new listing for a classic six at 800 WEA. When I first saw the price and the dark pictures, I figured it must be an estate sale. But actually, it's nicely renovated and wired, with high-end finishes in the kitchen. The color palette is just a bit dark.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376785-coop-800-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
NEW LISTING #10D ............................ | . $1,495,000 2 beds 1,700 ft²
09/27/2007 .. #5D $1,835,000 -3.2% |↑ $1,895,000 2 beds 2 baths
05/23/2007 . #13D $1,650,000 +3.5% | . $1,595,000 2 beds 3 baths 1,700 ft²
02/28/2007 .. #5D ... $800,000 ............ |
11/29/2004 . #15D $1,345,000

#5D appears to have been a bank sale that was renovated and resold seven months later. Nice flip. #13D had some work done prior to sale, but not a full reno. The most illuminating comp might be one on the same floor that a fellow poster (EAO? Bfgross?) seriously considered.

07/22/2008 #10C $1,745,000 -2.2% |↓ $1,785,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,800 ft²

The "C" and "D" lines are very similar. "C" is slightly bigger, but I prefer the layout of "D". Anyway, the $44 (2%) difference in maintenance suggests rough parity in value. #10C was in fair estate condition - the kitchen wing needed gut reno, and the bathrooms needed updates and access changes. Now #10D hits the market, in excellent condition, asking $250K less than the slightly larger wreck with similar views fetched six months ago. And the same agent has the listing, so the difference isn't pricing philosophy.

Curse you, Happyrenter. I had to leave the keyboard for an hour, and didn't hit "reply"!

Anyway, we're seeing eye-to-eye. Literally.

Sorry if I'm repeating this guys...:

http://warburgrealty.com/property/599555

auction time!

west81st,

we do see eye to eye on this one, as usual, but also as usual your analysis is more informative. i agree with you that C and D are essentially of equal value. that huge gallery in the C line is pretty cool, but not exactly the most valuable space, and it more than accounts for the square footage differential. and the D line has the southwest corner. actually, as i think about it, i probably agree with you and would give the nod to the D line as the better and slightly more valuable apartment.

i will be quite curious to see what this trades for. my sense is that the fall-off for the less prime areas of the uws is pretty intense right now (755 case in point). this is a perfectly fine area, but it's not ultra prime. but it's a much better apartment than most of the crappy sixes out there. i particularly like the maids room, which is quite usable.

Happyrenter: Good point about the neighborhood. On WEA, I like 99th much better than 97th, but I can't say there's been a huge difference in pricing historically.

Do you want to cover 100 RSD #14A? You type faster than I do. Looks like a 2004 price.

you go for it :)

West 81st and happyrenter, this is definitely a drop from the comps. Having seriously considered 10C, I can tell you it needed a gut rennovation. Personally, I prefer the gallery.. but that is a matter of personal taste. My husband and I put in an offer on 10C ( actually for $1,850 ) and then we rescinded it.. boy, am I glad we didn't move forward. We can do so much better for our $$ now!