Broker claims apt is no-fee, then asks for fee

Yes, because often the landlord will offer to pay the broker fee for a limited time only and obviously that time period expired. If you see a no fee apartment, you need to act on it fast because the terms constantly change in Manhattan rentals.

Said supposed expiration should have been mentioned in what you signed. If not, you may have a case.

Watch out for shady brokers.

Wow Hammy, I've read a lot of crap on Streeteasy, yours is now in the lead.

are you the official scorekeeper?

unofficial

but the scorekeeper?

are you telling me brokers are shady muck dwellers who would sell their own mothers for a rental fee?

come on man, get real.

People need to write respectful comments on this site, even if you do not agree with what is being written, otherwise your comments have no merit or value. What I answered is what the writer asked and it is the legal and accurate answer. There is enough anger and hate out there. For everyone's sake, and to keep this site intelligent and even a useful tool for the public, let's check the nasty comments at the door. It IS possible to disagree without using bad language. Thank you.

He said, she said. Was the "fee" or "no fee" in writing. Might be tough to get a no fee if you signed something saying you'd pay a fee.

So I'd go directly if nothing was signed.

Forget the apartment and start your search anew.

lkch:

1. sounds like a possible ethical lapse or fraud by the rental agent

2. New York law requires parties to business transactions to voluntarily
disclose unstated facts in certain situations: one of those situations
is that when a party to the transaction makes a representation of fact,
they must automatically disclose all other relevant facts known to them
to keep their actual statements from being misleading

3. it sounds as tho the expiration date of the no fee offer should have
been disclosed to you when you applied for the apartment or signed the
listing agreement

4. if you have an attorney, have him/her look up Brass v. American Film
Technology, 987 F.2d 1042, 1050 (2nd Cir. 199_), for a detailed discus-
sion of the three situations where unilateral disclosure is mandatory

>Hammy
about 3 hours ago
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>People need to write respectful comments on this site, even if you do not agree with what is being written, otherwise your comments have no merit or value. What I answered is what the writer asked and it is the legal and accurate answer. There is enough anger and hate out there. For everyone's sake, and to keep this site intelligent and even a useful tool for the public, let's check the nasty comments at the door. It IS possible to disagree without using bad language. Thank you.

So respectful asshole = merit. Interesting.

It all depends on what you signed. Demand to look at the agreement. If the agreement had an "expiration date," then you are bound to that. If it didn't, DON'T PAY A FEE. Period. End of story.

As for Hammy's original premise, it seems very unusual. I'm not saying it can't exist, but I AM saying it sounds like crap, as I've never seen an "expiration date" concerning a specific landlord on a broker's agreement sheet. Again, READ the contract.

Sonya that's a load of crap. rb345 is on target here. #2 is the antidote to fraudulent inducement.

How is what I said contradicting what rb said? Our posts basically have the same idea.

rb345
1 day ago
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lkch:

1. sounds like a possible ethical lapse or fraud by the rental agent

2. New York law requires parties to business transactions to voluntarily
disclose unstated facts in certain situations: one of those situations
is that when a party to the transaction makes a representation of fact,
they must automatically disclose all other relevant facts known to them
to keep their actual statements from being misleading

3. it sounds as tho the expiration date of the no fee offer should have
been disclosed to you when you applied for the apartment or signed the
listing agreement

4. if you have an attorney, have him/her look up Brass v. American Film
Technology, 987 F.2d 1042, 1050 (2nd Cir. 199_), for a detailed discus-
sion of the three situations where unilateral disclosure is mandatory

This fictitious "no fee experiration date" is compltetely at the owners whim.

Fucking stupid OP should have rented "no fee" when he had the chance.

Real estate agents are continually given listings from landlords that make limited time offers, such as "OP paid till such and such a date."
OP refers to owner pays the fee, which means the agent is still paid, only by the owner and not the renter himself.
As an agent, this is great because it generally gets the apt rented quicker and takes a huge burden off the renter.
So the term "no fee" does not mean that the agent doesn't get paid, only that the payment is made by the landlord.
The reason for this is due to 1) the time of the year or 2) apt is difficult to rent or 3) it is a new building with lots of vacancies.

It is because of these reasons that "no fee" apartments have expiration dates.
This is why, in NYC, renters do not have the luxury of thinking about whether to rent the apartment or not for two weeks.

Lastly, the renters probably could not rent directly from the landlord at this stage because the landlord will undoubtedly protect the agent and the agent would have registered the clients with the building.

The agent SHOULD for his or her own sake and to help the renter decide more quickly, always inform the renter of the need to act quickly, so this situation does not occur.

Hammy
about 1 hour ago
Posts: 26
Member since: Mar 2007
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Real estate agents are continually given listings from landlords that make limited time offers, such as "OP paid till such and such a date."
OP refers to owner pays the fee, which means the agent is still paid, only by the owner and not the renter himself.
As an agent, this is great because it generally gets the apt rented quicker and takes a huge burden off the renter.
So the term "no fee" does not mean that the agent doesn't get paid, only that the payment is made by the landlord.
The reason for this is due to 1) the time of the year or 2) apt is difficult to rent or 3) it is a new building with lots of vacancies.

It is because of these reasons that "no fee" apartments have expiration dates.
This is why, in NYC, renters do not have the luxury of thinking about whether to rent the apartment or not for two weeks.

Lastly, the renters probably could not rent directly from the landlord at this stage because the landlord will undoubtedly protect the agent and the agent would have registered the clients with the building.

The agent SHOULD for his or her own sake and to help the renter decide more quickly, always inform the renter of the need to act quickly, so this situation does not occur.

19 comments

I am sure the agent told this asshole end user to hurry up, etc but he was too fucking smart to listen.

Just to clarify, the broker did tell to me in writing that the apartment was no fee and there was no expiry date mentioned for the offer.

Hammy, you may be completely correct but it's apples & oranges, not answering exactly what the OP asked. As I read it, the question is whether, having originally told the applicant the apartment is "no fee," the agent can change the terms. It depends on what is in the document the OP signed, not whether or not the landlord decides there is an expiration date on its offer to pay the fee. Was OP informed of an expiration date in writing? This isn't about the agreement between landlord and agent, it's about what happened between the agent and the prospective tenant.

I think OP should find another apartment and, in future, get everything in writing.

>I am sure the agent told this asshole end user to hurry up, etc but he was too fucking smart to listen.

Big difference between saying "hurry up" and saying that the owner is offering OP until X date.
The General is on target.

generalogoun
35 minutes ago
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Member since: Jan 2009
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Hammy, you may be completely correct but it's apples & oranges, not answering exactly what the OP asked. As I read it, the question is whether, having originally told the applicant the apartment is "no fee," the agent can change the terms. It depends on what is in the document the OP signed, not whether or not the landlord decides there is an expiration date on its offer to pay the fee. Was OP informed of an expiration date in writing? This isn't about the agreement between landlord and agent, it's about what happened between the agent and the prospective tenant.

I think OP should find another apartment and, in future, get everything in writing.

owner can terminate an OP at anytime. no notice need be given, and therefore none can be given to tenant. caveat emptor.

greensdale
24 minutes ago
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Member since: Sep 2012
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>I am sure the agent told this asshole end user to hurry up, etc but he was too fucking smart to listen.

Big difference between saying "hurry up" and saying that the owner is offering OP until X date.
The General is on target.

you know nothing of business, in general, as your prolific posting is a clear indicator of unemployment.

Yes, I concur with the two above comments. Sounds like shady, sleazy brokering (at best).

(Jimmyboy??)

Sonya_D
about 1 hour ago
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Yes, I concur with the two above comments. Sounds like shady, sleazy brokering (at best).

(Jimmyboy??)

do we know each other?

The thing is, the landlord can change his mind daily about anything including increasing the price, not paying the fee etc, etc.
Waiting two weeks to make a decision about an apt is an eternity and lots can change.
What if the landlord decided he now wants another $1000 a month in rent for the same apartment they saw two weeks prior?
He can do that and he can also decide that he no longer wants to pay the broker his fee.
Holding

If the renter does not like the terms of the rental as they are today, he has the choice to rent something else, not try and go around the agent. Agents are at the mercy of the landlord. I have not heard of any contract that stipulates that the exact same terms of a rental will be honored every single day going forward.

Hammy
10 minutes ago
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Member since: Mar 2007
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The thing is, the landlord can change his mind daily about anything including increasing the price, not paying the fee etc, etc.
Waiting two weeks to make a decision about an apt is an eternity and lots can change.
What if the landlord decided he now wants another $1000 a month in rent for the same apartment they saw two weeks prior?
He can do that and he can also decide that he no longer wants to pay the broker his fee.
Holding

If the renter does not like the terms of the rental as they are today, he has the choice to rent something else, not try and go around the agent. Agents are at the mercy of the landlord. I have not heard of any contract that stipulates that the exact same terms of a rental will be honored every single day going forward.

stupid cunts like sonya prefer to blame the agents though.

>stupid cunts like sonya prefer to blame the agents though.

Jim Hores, you keep great company

greensdale: Looks like there's a new wanna-be community organizer here on streeteasy.

Yes, you can "write respectful comments", as the "new wanna-be community organizer suggests."

Wow, misinformation abound...

Jimmyboy, don't get upset. Just because you can't get the deal done, doesn't mean the good brokers out there ain't making that cash.

(and Hammy keeps talking, but seems to miss the point that the client MUST BE INFORMED, either by the signed agreement, or by the agent)

What exactly does the signed document say?

Now you have an O.K. from the trollalanhart.

I have more respect for this new wanna-be community organizer, than for the other.
She got her jollies using streeteasy comment-posters, yet had a thin skin combined with selective accusations against me, directives, and B.S.
She then slithered off, back to D.C.

We all know anyone can walk until the the deal is signed, and that means that any of the terms can change until the deal is signed - on both sides because they ultimately have to be agreed by both.

And that also means that despite Jim's statement that the tenant can "not try and go around the agent" directly to the landlord, the opposite is true. The tenant owes no duty to the agent. And the "landlord can change his mind daily about anything including increasing the price, not paying the fee etc, etc." and furthermore, the "agents are at the mercy of the landlord."

Hi Truth. How are things? Are you back in New York?
I have to admit, despite having posted some 1189 comments, I'm actually not clear who you are talking about. I see your attacks on alanhart, but who else?

greensdale:
I haven't "attacked" any poster on streeteasy.
Your clarity isn't my responsibility.
Stop being coy.

Oh Truth. My clarity isn't your responsibility. Just consider me in the category of people who have no idea what or who you are talking about.

Good enough category for you, greensdale.

This thread reminds me of an old article I read about rental concessions. See link: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2010/01/08/free-rent-no-broker-s-fee-not-so-fast/

nyapts
about 9 hours ago
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This thread reminds me of an old article I read about rental concessions. See link: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2010/01/08/free-rent-no-broker-s-fee-not-so-fast/

oh, you mean the article that says the same fucking thing I and other brokers have been?

Sonya_D
about 14 hours ago
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Member since: Jan 2013
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Wow, misinformation abound...

Jimmyboy, don't get upset. Just because you can't get the deal done, doesn't mean the good brokers out there ain't making that cash.

(and Hammy keeps talking, but seems to miss the point that the client MUST BE INFORMED, either by the signed agreement, or by the agent)

do we know each otehr?

Oh, don't get scared, Jimmyboy.... ;)

Sonya_D
about 2 hours ago
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Member since: Jan 2013
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Oh, don't get scared, Jimmyboy.... ;)

you and all internet warriors are very scary.

Who does the broker technically work for?

hoodia
28 minutes ago
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Who does the broker technically work for?

that is disclosed at the first substantive contact estupida.

lol!

I had a same problem! On streeteasy it said no fee. When the time came to sign the contract, the agent asked for the fee. I showed him the streeteasy link from his office and the listing was taken down within the hour but I already took the screenshot. His manager said it was a mistake and I still have to pay the fee - I said thanks but no thanks and started my search over.
Don't forget to take the screen shot of the listing so there is no excuse!

>that is disclosed at the first substantive contact estupida.

Estupida! Good to see you are learning Spanish from your wife/maid.

have you learned anything?

As predicted, C0lumbiaC0unty to the rescue of Jim Hores. Happening more frequently lately, although it's always happened occasionally.

so...you haven't learned anything?

what a shame.

missed opportunity.

oh well.

>so...you haven't learned anything?

Well, I've certainly suspected for quite a while.
Are you offering positive confirmation ... C0lumbiaC0unty = Jim Hores?

you would know best, wouldn't you?

Is that a question?

yes greensburg.

its a question.

Well, in that case, no, I wouldn't know best. You would know best on the question of C0lumbiaC0unty = Jim Hores

how can that be?

don't you know everything?

CC, do that again, that was a rather pathetic rebuttal.

so you do know everything?

1202 pathetics.

one more time ... only getting worse. You can do it.

hundreds and hundreds.

yep.

getting softer

are you bragging about that?

softer...

i needed rescuing?