Lake George, New York: definitely upstate. Source: Diane Cordell via Flickr

A quick search for #upstateNY on Instagram pulls in more than 1.2 million images, many of them depicting cozy cabins, bountiful vegetable baskets and kayaks set against placid blue lakes. That sounds just like upstate New York, right? Look at little closer at those images, however, and things get weird. They’re geotagged to places spread across the entire state, from the border of the Berkshires in the east, to Lake Erie in the west, and as far north as Canada. One was definitely taken on the Upper West Side.

So where does upstate New York actually begin? Here we set to the task of defining it.

Is There an Official Definition of Upstate New York?

Not really. While the State of New York has an approximate answer, there is no officially sanctioned, dictionary-approved definition. In general, Albany’s definition of upstate New York roughly includes any areas you can’t reach on the Metro-North commuter rail line. Another easy rule declares anything north of the New York metropolitan area (which includes New York City, Long Island, Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland and Orange counties) to be upstate.

In essence, both definitions label more or less entire state of New York, minus the metropolitan area, as upstate. But despite the simplicity of these definitions, they’re susceptible to hole-poking — especially when western New York and the Hudson Valley come into play.

Upstate or not? For some, Buffalo is closer to the Midwest than to upstate New York. (Photo by John Greim/LightRocket via Getty Images)

Does Upstate Include Western New York?

On the map, western New York looks a lot like middle America. The region encompasses 17 counties including Buffalo, Rochester and Niagara Falls, and is a lot closer to Cleveland than to New York City. According to the aforementioned definitions, however, drive 350 miles west from New York City to Buffalo, and you’re in upstate New York.

“West towards Buffalo and Rochester? I would never call that ‘upstate,’ says Phoebe Pickering, a native New Yorker whose family has owned property in Columbia County for four decades. “Maybe because it feels so remote from the city, and geographically it’s not really ‘up.’ It’s practically Midwestern.” Yet despite the area having greater cultural, economic and political affinity to the Midwest and the Rust Belt (yes, they do say “pop” instead of “soda”), Western New York is technically upstate.

Luke Stern, who grew up in New York City and is now looking to buy a home in Orange County, went to college in Poughkeepsie, where he made friends from Buffalo, Rochester and Ithaca. Although he originally thought of Poughkeepsie, and anything north of Westchester County, as upstate, he quickly learned not to refer to the town as “upstate” around his Western New York friends. “To them we were certainly not ‘upstate,’” he says. Instead, he started describing the location of his college town as “two hours north of New York City in the Hudson Valley.”

Fishkill Farms in Dutchess County: upstate or not? Source: William Avery Hudson via Flickr Creative Commons

Upstate New York vs. The Hudson Valley

If Western New York seems entirely remote from New York City, the Hudson Valley, on the other hand, has come to be thought of the city’s backyard. The region has become a hot spot for weekend vacationers, second homes, destination weddings and just about everything local, organic, and farm-to-table. For many, this is what upstate is all about — but perhaps even it is not truly upstate.

“I think that the real upstate starts somewhere in the Adirondacks,” says Judy Keefer, who owns properties in Brooklyn and Columbia County. “But as a Brooklynite, I call the Hudson Valley ‘upstate’ starting at Dutchess County.”

Pickering agrees with this assessment. “In my mind, ‘upstate’ has always referred to the Hudson River Valley,” she says. But where Keefer considers the “real upstate” to start in the Adirondacks, Pickering would consider this a region unto itself: “Further north isn’t ‘upstate.’ That’s just called ‘The Adirondacks.’” 

The Tappan Zee Bridge spans the Hudson River, connecting Rockland and Westchester counties. Upstate or not? (Photo by Jim Alcorn/Getty Images)

The Many Parts of the Hudson Valley

Technically, the Hudson Valley is its own economic region, spanning from Rensselaer county north of Albany all the way down to Westchester. The area is divided into three regions: the Lower Hudson Valley, the Middle Hudson Valley and the Upper Hudson Valley.

The Upper Hudson Valley encompasses many of the counties surrounding Albany. By almost all definitions, this area is considered upstate New York. The Lower Hudson Valley encompasses Westchester and Rockland counties. All these regions are technically part of the New York City metropolitan area, and are, for the most part, reachable, on the Metro-North. Therefore, they are not upstate New York.

Things get murkier in the nebulous zone of the Middle Hudson Valley, which includes Dutchess, Putnam, Orange, Ulster and Sullivan counties. Here, the rules about Metro-North access and metropolitan area begin to break down, since some parts of Dutchess County are reachable by Metro-North, but none of Orange, Ulster or Sullivan are. Adding to the confusion, many of these regions are increasingly considered within commuting distance of New York City.

Heading upstate! Source: Doug Kerr via Flickr Creative Commons

An ‘Upstate of Mind’

For many, the definition of upstate is based less on the New York City metropolitan area or certain counties, and more on nearby roads or the distance from New York by car or train.

For Paul Spencer, owner of properties in Chelsea and Columbia County, the definition of upstate is simple. “An hour and a half drive, minimum — two hours is the sweet spot,” he says. “Anything less than an hour is suburbia.” It just so happens that his property at the southern border of Columbia County is a convenient two hours from Manhattan.

Sebastian Delmont, a Geographic Information System guru, former CTO of StreetEasy, and property owner in Sullivan County, however, offers a more technical definition. His is roughly tethered to I-84, a highway that bisects Orange, Dutchess and parts of Putnam counties. “Pretty much anything north of that is upstate,” he says. “It’s not a sharp boundary, but it draws an arc of about a one-hour drive time from the George Washington Bridge. Both Metro-North and NJ Transit trains reach just below I-84. It’s also a decent approximation to the official definition for the New York metro area.”

He does concede that this definition leaves room for interpretation: “North of the Bear Mountain Bridge but south of I-84 is a grey area, with some places that many would consider upstate, including Beacon, West Point and Newburg.”

Perhaps the only definition that leaves no room for question or interpretation is offered up by Kerry Goin, a Staten Island native who owns property in Sullivan County and describes herself as being in an “Upstate of Mind,” especially come the summer months of June, July and August. “I’m sure I’m in the minority,” she says, “but as soon as we clear the Bronx, I’m upstate!”
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