So we have a contractor...

What exactly are you having done? More details would help.

How could you have chosen your contractor without knowing what his prices are? What is the scope of work?

Total renovation of the kitchen and bathrooms, along with some smaller cosmetic details, e.g. sanding the floor. Primer05, I don't understand your question. The contractor did lay out his prices for his work, but the estimate of fixtures and tiles for which we're responsible is based on our choices.

My question is based on the fact that you said that the prices were unrealistic to you.

For a complete kitchen and bathroom 60k is very reasonable asa whole but I think for mid range 40k for labor is too high. I think it should be more 30k for labor and 30k for fixtures, cabinets, tiles, etc

Primer, here are the other renovations we're having done: knocking down a kitchen wall to make an island, replacing the a/c's (contractor is including the actual a/c's in his cost), replacing all the doors (again, contractor is including the cost of the doors), installing new baseboards and moldings, updating the electrical outlets and changing the fuses to circuit breakers, and--here's the bigger item I forgot--repainting the apartment. Does that add up?

Very much so.

Thanks, Primer. Appreciate your feedback.

rlmnyc, please DO NOT accept unless the contractor gives you a written estimate that is ITEMIZED per item he is doing - again each item has to be priced separately. This will give you a CLEAR understanding of what will be done and the cost attached to each item. This will also help you budget correctly. When I interviewed contractors for my job(s) I usually disregard the contractors that come in with a bulk price, I only consider the contractors that give me an itemized estimate. Bulk prices are not good as the contractor can always say at any point that a certain part of the job is additional or never discussed - hence the itemized estimate is important. Try calling All Renovaton Construction at 718-351-4099 (www.allrenovationllc.com) - they are extremely professional and will give you an accurate estimate.

Best,
Adam

make sure you listed as co insured on his insurance policy

Rlmnyc,

I would not hold the contractors to price out every line item. The proposal should stae everything they are doing but some contractors do not have the time to sit down and price out every aspect of the project. I usually write down everything but will price it as bathroom is ---, kitchen is ----, painting----, etc---. I would except as an owner that there will be anywhere from 5-20% extra depending on either the unknown or chages you want to make.

As far as the insurance the building will make sure that you are listed as additionally insured.

Primer - your comments in the past have been very helpful, but this last post might seriously damage your reputation on this board. As in "some contractors (including you?) do not have the time to sit down and price out every aspect of the project. .......I would except (sic) as an owner anywhere from 5-20% extra depending on either the unknown or changes you want to make."

Are you serious? People may expect some cost overruns, but the lighthearted way you say this would, I think, be unacceptable to most people looking to hire a contractor. Somehow, if you were the owner, I don't think you'd be comfortable hearing this from your contractor.

ph41: I'm good with it. I trust Primer. Did all the possible research on him.
After experiencing contractors' who "price out every aspect...".

I'm comfortable. Just my opinion: Primer gets the job.

P.S. Primer uses an I-Pad. Can't blame him for typos on it.
The next version of I-Pad (probably very soon) will be better.

Truth - you might feel different if you were currently planning a renovation costing x-thousands of dollars. Just my opinion.

Thank you truth

I think you are taking my post a different way then attended.

If you are doing a complete gut on an apartment that is a 700,000.00 project it is not expected to price out every line item. It is even unreasonable to ask. As far as the expecting 5-20% that goes for most contractors. I usually only charge additional costs if the owner decides they want to do more then the original scope.

As far as my reputation I think my work speaks for itself.

Primer, I hate to disagree with you about this, but just asked my husband, who has handled very large renovations, as well as overseeing building of new facilities re: line item quotes. Basically, getting contractor quotes by line item is how one compares cost proposals.

I think the same applies to most residential renovation proposals from contractors looking to get the work on a project.

Seriously, how would anyone compare bids from different contractors bidding on the same job without costs by line item? Blind faith doesn't really work well where construction is concerned.

compare totals?

Primer, how much to remove a window in a shower? Crazy old man from columbia county hasn't bathed in months because he's paranoid someone will see in. It's affecting his ... actually, it's not affecting anyone, no one really cares about this old smelly dirty nutcase except for an dirty ape on west 67th street who emphathizes.

Ph1,

If the scope of work is exactly the same it is easy. Very easy in fact. Tomorrow I will try to post a typical bid form from an architect and I think you will see that every line item is priced out. It is normally broken down but not every line item.

Don't worry about the penthouse lady. She knows nothing about nothing.

columbia county? where is that?

Primer - you seem to be contradicting yourself "Tomorrow I will try to post a typical bid form from an architect and I think you will see that every line item is priced out. It is normally broken down but not every line item. "

Hey CC - get another Scotch, and SHOOT THOSE RABBITS!!!

Does that make you feel important?

Kind of how you feel when you brag about your pathetic penthouse?

Ph1

It should read every line item isn't priced out.

If you wrote out a scope of work for full gut bathroom and asked three contractors to bid on it what do you think would be a problem. Can't you base that on total cost if the scope is the same?

Of course.

The pretend penthouse lady has neither made a bid nor seen a bid.

The issue is the total.

What is the maximum height of a building in Columbia County? The penthouse would be what floor? Four?

Hey CC - you're too drunk to get the rabbits? Pathetic, but then again, you are a totally pathetic troll

Oh my..I'm the penthouse lady. Look at me .. I'm the penthouse lady.

woo hoo!! cow tipping!

Primer - I'm talking about a larger project - not just one bathroom; full renovation, or total buildout of a facility, reconstruction of a building, or a new building. Come on - when Built Studios does a showroom, and asks for bids, they get fairly specific I would think.

I've been involved with commercial real estate office buildouts, historic reconstruction in Tribeca (before it was TRIBECA) as well as my own home, and seeing "hubby's" business projects.

Sure, it comes down to totals, but the details making up those totals definitely matter.

What about your gas stations?

You are ridiculous.

What difference does anything matter other than the total?

You are a moron.

Primer, there's a barn in Columbia County, we need to convert it from holding horses to just holding hay. Can you help with that? Do you do work in Columbia County? The barn has only 1 level, so actually the ground floor is also the penthouse level. We offer free cow tipping on Tuesday nights.

Ph1,

When did we start talking about facility, reconstruction of a building or a new building? The op was talking about a renovation of an apt with a couple of bathrooms, kitchen and flooring. When did this become something else. When builtInstudio takes on a project they give me drawings and a scope of work. I will then break it down by general carpentry, electrical, plumbing, etc. I do not give them a proposal that prices out every item. General carpentry might be 150k but I don't say the base molding is 10k and the doors are 15 k. It's all in the drawings and all contractors should be bidding on that information.

Primer- agreed - it's in the drawings/spec's which ARE specific. It's those specifications which make the difference in looking at competing bids.

then again, even with "spec's" there can sometimes be room for some "misunderstandings"

Hey CC - you're too drunk to get those rabbits? Maybe, if you're super nice to AR she'll let you go on vacation with her this summer.D on't think her "hubby" will mind, after all, you're as close as anyone can come to being AR's eunuch.

So...penthouse lady.

Wrong again.

Not a surprise, is it?

Oh, and I'm sure you can look up "eunuch" in a dictionary

So...I hate you because you're a pretentious bitch.

What's your beef with me?

I am assuming you have a dictionary up there in the woods of Columbia County - but then again ????

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you are?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretentious

Oh wait, maybe AR's posting, in detail, of her lavish summer plans (3 countries, two villas, etc. etc.etc.?) wasn't tempting enough for you?) It sure sounded tempting (and just a wee bit pretentious) when I read the post.

You know you want to go.

Oh, that's right, if you live in PCV you can't possibly be pretentious.

Not only are you pretentious but you have a terrible case of jealousy.

What the hell is your problem?

Who are you talking to?

Hey CC - have another Scotch. You are one crazy old coot.(you did look up eunuch, right?)

Ok ok

We're all impressed.

You made it out of Brooklyn to your shitty penthouse.

Wow!

Wait, I phrased that the wrong way. Should have said, if you live in PCV you can't be ACCUSED of being pretentious.

Are you accusing me of living in Columbia county or pcv?

To repeat.

What's your beef with me?

Summer is coming - life will come back to those who live year round upstate, in Columbia County (is that really life?)

Well, there will be a lot more rabbits to shoot.

But you know absolutely nothing about me.

What's your beef?

CC = one of the worst trolls on SE.

Still trying to understand your issue.

Can you even remember?

I didn't think so.

Total stalker

Sitting in your make believe penthouse desperately trying to remember. Oh well.

total troll!!!

Don't flatter yourself.

Why would anyone want to stalk you?

cc - YOU REALLY ARE PATHETIC

All caps now?

Back to my question...why do you hate me?

As a reminder...

I hate you because you are a pretentious know nothing.

PLEASE - STOP STALKING ME!!! IT'S GETTING REALLY TIRESOME.

Though then again, I sort of understand how bored you must be living up there in the hinterlands.

Just answer the question.

PH1,

Lets go back to the beginning,

The op was talking about a normal renovation of an apt. Then Adamkindron wrote : "rlmnyc, please DO NOT accept unless the contractor gives you a written estimate that is ITEMIZED per item he is doing - again each item has to be priced separately."

I responded to that saying that a contractor should not price out every single line item.

I appreciate that you like to disagree with me on most of my posts as it is fun but lets try to keep the same scenerio, going from a apt renovation to facility and new construction is a very big leap.

how did i miss such fun? ph41, don't you have some VERY BIG plants on your terrace to water?

i don't make people sit around and look at photos from my trips (i hardly take any, in fact). i'm not busy collecting things for display. that distinction might elude you.

most people who know us know, of course, that we are gone for a month every summer, although few know the details. which would you scorn more, a trip to europe or a very expensive summer rental/purchase in the hamptons? or spending a lot for a penthouse with a terrace? i was just sharing the details with my good friend truth, who had mentioned not hearing about our travel plans recently. because i'm a considerate sort who doesn't like to brag i left out the december trip to the french alps as well as our upcoming trip to the islands. have a nice day!

btw, i agree with primer. rlmnyc, good luck and congrats! renovations are a pain but hopefully at the end of the day you have something you love.

I�ve been out of the country for a couple of days and am not sure how or why this post got so nasty so quickly.

Though I�m not using Primer as my contractor, it�s not because I doubt his skill or professionalism; it�s because there�s a contractor in my new building who has done gut renovations on multiple apartments there and comes on high recommendation from both the super and various owners. Plus I�ve seen his work and was impressed. If that weren�t the case, I�d definitely consider Primer based on his thoughtful responses and generosity with his feedback.

AR, I�ve also found your feedback helpful and encouraging from the time I started my apartment search a couple of years ago through my present neophyte renovation inquiries.

To respond to an earlier question, my contractor has given me what seems like a happy medium between the detailed line-by-line costs and the overall lump sum. Granted, we have only his estimate, not a final contract. We�re going to be meeting with him shortly to hammer out a contract and go into more specifics, at which time I expect additional numbers will be revealed. We�re also going to ask him to give us an estimate of each item we can expect to buy ourselves, in order to keep ourselves on target as well.

Finally, we�ve built an overrun into our budget, we�ve been warned that the cost can and often does run over. Despite our contractor�s references indicated that he stays within his budget, we have an extra budget so we don�t have to lie awake at night. While I agree that overruns are less than ideal, I can�t shut my eyes to the very real possibility.

I�m hoping to have fun with this (or at least not root-canal type pain) and emerge from the other side with a lovely apartment to call home.

Cost overruns are a fact of life because building and extensive renovation involves human beings who can change their minds and on site conditions that can be different than what reasonable people expected before they began. Whether its an older nyc apartment and once walls come down, pipes are found in unanticipated places requiring more extensive work or a house site that unexpectedly requires blasting to get the foundation down to an acceptable depth, these situations need a contractor and a client who are willing to work together and not foolishly blame each other.

The idea that a contractor will somehow magically take on this risk makes no sense.

Rimnyc,

It is always a good idea to use someone you are comfortable with so it is good that you have found that. Since you are buying some if not all fixtures, tiles and appliances for your home please feel free to email me as I will give you my resources that have taken many many years to find. You can use my discounts at these places as well.

As much as people think i ma on here just to get business that is actually not the case. Renovations are very stressful and expensive so I try to help anyway I can.

Feel free to email me at primerenovations@mac.com

the real reason you're on here is you like us, primer. you really like us. just surrender to it, resistance is futile.

As AR about her travels "because I'm a considerate sort who doesn't like to brag i left out the december trip to the french alps as well as our upcoming trip to the islands."

Just a TEENSY" bit pretentious, no?

Must be hard for you, coming back from your fabulous travels, and having to get out at PCV (oh, the villas, the villas, fabulous apartments, left behind in Europe).

but you and i know better, right? i mean, she skis on the *french* side with the new russians and other riff raff.

Again, Primer, thank you. I suspect that when I post I�m planning to visit Home Depot for at least ideas, I�ll get a scream of negative replies. I may very well be in touch when I hear how horrible everyone feels HD is.

I wonder, if a member of Aboutready's husband's family back in the States gets ill while Aboutready and "nerd daughter" and the husband are in one of the villas, will Aboutready return to the US with her husband, or remain on vacation while her husband returns alone?

hi hb! can't speak for ar, but for me, it would depend on the relative. i would have to think very hard, is it worth is to leave the trip to go watch this person die? in several cases, it certainly would be.

hey, ph41, what you do and what you buy doesn't determine whether or not you're full of it. it's whether or not you judge others for their decisions. "oh my goodness, what DO your husband's partners think about you living in PCV?"

that's pretension.

i know you can't see the distinction. or choose not to.

Somehow I doubt that the partnership meeting involves a discussion of who is living in Peter Cooper Village.

and really, ph41, if you're too stupid to realize that my vacation comment was just a fun way to take a stab at the vile truth, you're not even clever. i've always assumed you had a certain amount of clever mixed in with your lack of depth, but maybe that was too generous.

There are some things you can buy at home depot but not many. There prices on plumbing fixtures are very good but the places I use are pretty much the same cost but much better service.

rlmnyc, i'd think you'd be better off looking elsewhere. it's not just cost, HD has very limited selections for things like tiles, you'll do better at no greater cost elsewhere.

>hi hb! can't speak for ar, but for me, it would depend on the relative. i would have to think very hard, is it worth is to leave the trip to go watch this person die? in several cases, it certainly would be.

Lucille, just for clarity on the question, this relative of your husband is important enough for your husband to return to the U.S. So the question is, do you support your husband? Did you have a smile on your face when you got married and said "... for poorer, in sickness..." or were you kind of mumbling like you didn't know the words to the National Anthem?

is it just me or is HB beginning to sound virtually identical to the banned HSF? hmm.

toilet plungers, death of relative. what's next, my toilet seat? (actually the spare bathroom needs a new one now, think i'll have to give management a ring).

oh, i was married in a Ojibwe wedding ceremony. lately, the husband keeps circling me and whispering "i divorce thee" under his breath. what's his problem?

don't leave out lucille. clearly another manifestation of the cockroach.

clearly

i've been wrong on a number of occasions, cc (buyerbuyer, carolst are the two that pop most readily to mind, i was even overly supportive of the other AR, agentrachel), but i'm not with you on this one.

alex=the lucilles. she's been around for years. and, you must admit, has a very distinctive voice, not at all similar to "the" troll.

that's its specialty. lucille is way too broadly painted to be real.

nice try, cc. don't even think about looking for me. i pack heat, mothaf*cka

the troll has no color at all. no life details. very few opinions other than those mocking people (although more as HB as i think it was trying to appear to "be" a different entity, at least enough to not get banned again). if you think about it, HSF/HB is a nasty but very boring troll (not that it cares, clearly), only interesting in its persistence and focus.

but unfortunately based on the large number of banned accounts, there are many other manifestations.

i remember some of those posters. interestingly i had a rather large number of the banned accounts on ignore.

but not mhillqt. that one surprised the hell out of me.

he wasn't a troll, i think he just freaked out that his real name could be connected to se after the super thread. i bet he asked to be deleted.

he's NOT boring. just this particular encarnation is blandish, because that's "the troll". he has a plethora of characters in various stages of development, with relationship with existing posters! this person absoutely emits creative energy and is totally nuts. but in, like, a good way.

that makes sense.

that makes sense for the mhillqt issue.

lucille, if you believe that i don't know what to tell you. his previous incarnations were blandish also, if you stripped out the sheer viciousness. how clever is it to keep track of what everyone you don't like has ever said and pull it up over and over again where it's not relevant (i.e., definition of a troll)? actually, now that HB has been forced to "expand" a bit it is clear that he's not even very intelligent.

he has relationships? pol pot and stalin probably did also. encouraging them would not have been a good nor morally correct act.

ar, you assume all his energy is devoted to annoying you and other posters he doesn't like. that's not it. there are so many handles asking questions, just participating that are him.

So, lucille, supporting the husband is good or bad?

Also, what recent personal details do we know about columbiacounty? He's told us in the past about his lousy financial decisions, bad career that's now long over, poor health and general infirmity, and his lousy real estate decisions - but those go back 2 years. Anything recent? Does he have a daughter that he mocks for trying to advance herself?