FSBO Open House - Sunday 9/28 - Nice Corner One Bedroom Co-op Apt in Murray Hill/Kips Bay

$1100 psf in this market?

Guess you haven't been reading this board too much...

Hmmm, sure your math is correct?

$539,000/625 = $862.40 per square foot.

You were reading the community profile on the right side of the Times.

Midtown East
Median HH Inc. $80,954
Median Sales Price $885,000
Price/Square foot $1,109

So, we're not such a bad deal.

A Feb 2008 Corcoran comp (#16B) at $525K makes you look a little pricey for a FSBO in a much worse market. I don't think the two floors make much difference in that location.

I hope you'll be OK if you have settle for 2006 prices (mid 400s).

625 sq. ft. for $539k is not $1100/sf - more like $860. Of course, ppsf is not the most meaningful figure here given that maintenance is $1655 (~$2.66/sf).

Page looks nice - one thing that would help would be a larger version of the floorplan (where one could read the measurements).

Curious how you decided on pricing - With the 14B comp at $475k, do you think it is a bit aggressive?

Wowser on the maintenance: $1,655 for 625 sq ft apartment?!?!?!

Agreed with West 81st on the 16B comp. A few thoughts on that:

1. Market is much worse than when 16B was sold.
2. It appears your kitchen needs some renovation (the high-end appliances notwithstanding, a buyer will likely want to put in new countertops and cabinets) - both things 16B had.
3. Any buyer who comes to you without a broker will want some share in the 6% savings of not using a broker.

I agree mid-400s are more likely.

I know the circumstances behind the sale of #14B and it is not a valid comp. #8B settled for $515k.

The maintenance was 65% deductible last year, real estate taxes and mortgage interest. The building has refinanced their mortgage therefore I believe the maintenance can be kept steady. Of course, the deductibility number may drop a few percentage points, not sure exactly what it will be yet.

I cannot guarantee anything regarding future maintenance, of course. All information should be verified by a buyer's attorney as part of the due diligence process.

Thanks for the comments on the webpage. We will make the measurements much larger so they can be more easily read.

By the way, the square footage comes straight out of the co-op offering plan and is not a number I dreamed up. It is a number someone else dreamed up. ;-)

Hello West81st,
Thanks for the support. ;-) If the sky falls, we will stay. We wanted to move up into your hood. Perhaps you can take us around to some nice open houses. Unfortunately, you seem to only frequent the $1.5mil to $3.5mil places. Of course, they don't have any profit margin built into those prices!

There is no true 6% savings because I spend all the time and effort to market the apartment myself. I pay for all of the advertising, I do the open houses, I spend the time to sell the unit. Price is price. It is not my fault if people spend 6% to agencies when they could probably sell their assets on their own.

People should pay what they think the unit is worth compared to other comparable units on the market. Show me another unit in the neighborhood for $539k that has a balcony. By the way, the balcony faces south and gets great sun! Actually, the 18th floor is right at the roofline of the building to the south, an advantage over the 16th floor.

Just FYI, the fridge is just two years old and has a current replacement cost of $3800, due to the weak dollar. The stove is a high end JennAir that cost $1600. The dishwasher is brand new and worth $800.

The skim coating work I did on the ceiling has made a substantial improvement in the look of the apartment. The recessed moldings I added give a sleek modern look. The cork floor is warm to bare feet and easy on the joints.

407PAS: There are an awful lot of classic sixes and sevens up here. SOMEBODY has to look at them. :o)

Good luck tomorrow. You probably won't find a buyer on Streeteasy (tough crowd on this board), but there's one out there for you somewhere.

As they say in Hollywood, there is no such thing as bad publicity. I expected rocks from this crowd, I have read the board. ;-)

Every deal is a deal for somebody. Have fun with the sixes and sevens.

Good luck, dude. Good for you for not wasting money with undertrained, no-knowledge brokers. In the era of the internet, if you have the time and dedication to sell something yourself, you should be able to sell it for a price equal to or better than what a broker can get for you.

Here's an important tip, though: while Craig's List, StreetEasy, the Times, and a host of other sites and periodicals are nice and helpful (and I do believe that, as I use every one of those resources), in Manhattan, NOTHING beats exposure on the REBNY MLS system. REBNY, The Real Estate Board of New York, is the big, ugly organization that every Manhattan broker you've ever heard of (Corcoran, Elliman, Halstead, and a million others) belong to. Part of their rules is that within 24 hours of being hired to market a property, any broker from any participating company (and they're ALL participating companies) MUST MUST MUST include the listing on the REBNY database. Every broker who works for a company that is a member of REBNY has access to the listings of every other REBNY broker, even if they work for totally separate companies. And it is through this huge network of shared listings that most deals get done. I, as a seller, might hire a Corcoran broker to sell my apartment, and if she's a diligent, hard-working broker, she'll be sure to put ads in the Times, send out postcards, print flyers, etc. But the best way to appeal to the broadest array of buyers is by getting the listing on REBNY's network. So my Corcoran broker will put the apartment into the database, and then she doesn't really have to do anything but wait for calls from brokers at Halstead, Elliman, Brown Harris etc. who suddenly have my apartment listed on their computer screen. The Halstead broker who represents a potential buyer sees the listing in the internal database, calls the Corcoran broker (or shows up at an open house with the buyer in tow) and the fun begins. While there are no official numbers, somewhere between 80 and 85% of Manhattan deals are done this way, with a broker representing the buyer and another one representing the seller, and the availability of a unit shared through exposure on the REBNY MLS.

As a FSBO, you might get lucky with an ad in CL, the Times, SE, etc. but you stand the best chance by getting your apartment listed with REBNY. Brokers being the greedy slime that they are don't permit you, as a non-broker, to post or even fully access the REBNY site. But if you have a friend who happens to be a REBNY member, now's the time to ask for a favor.

If people looking for an apartment don't know how to search the ads on the Times, I'm not sure they're clever enough to pass the coop board!

You sound like a broker and not the guy selling 26 apartments. Are you the guy selling his own apartments? I believe I met the guy selling his own holdings. He told me a delightful story of a broker who intentionally posted wrong pictures of one of his apartments in order to boost traffic.
Unethical, don't you think?

I choose to sell on my own because I want to speak for myself and answer questions about the apartment in as honest a way as I can.

Of course, interested buyers should have their own real estate attorney perform due diligence on any purchase.

I am indeed the guy who sells his own apartments, and no, I'm not a broker, never have been, and likely never will be.

We may well have met, as the story your recounted did happen to me once. Some idiotic broker I hired posted false pictures of one of my apartments (if I recall, he showed supposed views from the apartment that had nothing to do with the actual view from the window.) When I saw the ad, I called him and laced into him, telling him to change it immediately. He had the gall to chastise ME, saying it didn't matter that the pictures were phony because they were only of the views, and whatever it took to get buyers in the door was fair game. I immediately fired him, told him to take down the pics of the other 'open' listings of my apartments he had on his site, and wrote a letter to his boss. I've never worked or spoken to him since.

As a general rule, I *DETEST* brokers. If you can be a 'racist' against brokers, I'm it. They are by and large dishonest, lazy, lie about anything and everything, and what's worst - are COMPLETELY uninformed about most aspects of real estate. Their training is so pathetic, they understand nothing about the ins and outs of real estate and exploit the fact that most buyers and sellers know even less. They are sycophantic, nagging, glorified door-openers as far as I'm concerned whose profession is made all but obsolete by the advent of the internet, and any transaction I can do without the interference of a broker is one I strongly prefer.

All of that said, one must nevertheless be cognizant of a certain reality. And that is that because brokers offer their 'services' free to buyers, most buyers - particularly those buying in expensive areas like Manhattan - are indeed represented by brokers. And it's understandable from the buyer's perspective; it's a helluva lot easier to have someone email you a list of potentially suitable apartments every week than to comb through a million ads in a million different venues (Craig's List, NYTimes, Streeteasy, Trulia, Zillow and a million other sites) yourself. Brokers are able to access the gamut of listings so easy because they have access to the REBNY MLS system, a Manhattan-wide database of every building on the island and what's available for sale there. REBNY MLS has a powerful search function - it enables you to type in the criteria you're looking for and have all of the apartments that match your criteria spit out immediately, with all of the accompanying pertinent data.

Of course, because brokers are greedy hoarders who don't want to see their profession disappear, they restrict access to this database solely to other brokers. John Doe who wants to buy an apartment can't search this database without a broker (or someone with surreptitious access to the system, hint hint) doing it for him. He might come up with the same listings by diligently wading through a million ads on the Times, Street Easy, and Craig's List, but that's a far more inefficient and time-consuming means of going about things.

Because I hate working with (and paying!) brokers so much, whenever I start selling a new apartment I always utilize the various non-MLS websites first in the hopes that a shrewd buyer searching on his own might find it and the transaction can be consummating without a meddling broker. But the reality is that even I recognize that my pool of potential buyers is vastly increased by exposure on REBNY MLS. Thus, my advice to you, which is really, truly meant in good faith - go ahead and try via the Times, Craig's List, Street Easy and the rest to sell your apartment. Hopefully, an astute buyer searching on his own will find your listing and you can close the deal without the 'help' of some inane 'professional'. But if you find it doesn't work, don't panic, and don't slash the price by 80% like some of the vultures here suggest. Bite the bullet and find a way to put it on REBNY MLS. You'll find that you'll get exponentially more interested buyers, because the fact of the matter is that any or most of them are represented by brokers and they let them do the searching work for them. Yes, you'll have to pay that buyers' broker, but it'll be half the cost (3%) of what you would have to pay if you hired your own broker to do it for you.

One other thing you'll find: with a FSBO in a prime neighborhood, you'll find that you'll be bombarded with phone calls from brokers desperately begging you to let them sell your apartment 'more efficiently and for a better price than you can ever do it!' If you don't want to pay 6%, tell them to fly a kite and leave you alone. Don't listen to their inane sales pitches, don't let them come to your apartment to give you a presentation, don't let them bombard you with literature. These guys can be worse than timeshare salesmen.

HOWEVER - one question I would, and always do, ask these telemarketing brokers is: 'do you have a buyer that you're working with NOW who might be interested in my apartment?' Forget about what they promise to do for you in the future - ask them if they have a direct buyer who's potentially interested now. If they do, I would recommend that you let them bring their buyer to see your place. Again, if they end up being interested, you will have to pay 3%. But in my estimation, given the fact that the majority of buyers are indeed represented by agents, you would be foolish to reject a broker's offer to bring a specifically vetted client to see your place, particularly in this uncertain market. Paying a full 6% is a waste, but if you restrict yourself solely to those buyers who are not represented by an agent, you are eliminating a significant percentage of the already shrinking buying pool, and that is not, in my estimation, worth doing for 3% of the sales price.

Yes, I believe we have met. Thanks for the advice but the other thing you told me is that the brokers call you all the time saying they have an interested buyer when they don't have anybody interested in the apartment. It is all part of the game. I don't have time for this game, as I have to earn my living during the week, not talk to brokers every five minutes.

There is no published phone number on which to contact me with regards to the property. I will not answer unknown numbers on my phone and I will not return voice mail from agents. This is intentional.

So, you have hit the nail on the head. Buyers are not confident enough to do their own research, bid on properties, hire their own lawyers, prepare their own board packages, and go through the buying process. Instead, they are led around by the nose, often to their own detriment.

Therefore it is time to tell buyers to take control of their own lives!

1) Hire a competent real estate attorney to represent you in negotiating a contract.
2) Do your own research on properties you want to buy taking into account the associated costs, etc.
3) Send in written offer letters, specifying the bid and financial information such as credit score, income, savings, etc.
4) Research a loan through the banks, avoiding the mortgage brokers, yet another level of broker getting in the way of the process.
5) Prepare the board packages, being sure to follow the directions carefully.

Is it too much to ask for people to take control of their own financial lives?

Half of the reason we are in this financial crisis is that buyers took on loans they could not afford, sold to them by mortgage brokers, banks, and real estate agents who made money on the deals. Now, everybody has to pay to try to fix this problem.

It is time for somebody to stand up and tell people that they have to take active control of their financial transactions and of the financial aspect of their lives!

407 - I admire your gumption and certainly wish you all the luck in the world selling your place. As someone who prefers and always tries to utilize that method, I know that it works, that it's satisfying, and I genuinely wish you success.

I would, however, humbly suggest that you not be as rigid in your approach as you appear to be. Not publishing your phone number, not taking calls from unknown numbers, and rejecting ANY inquiry from a broker will artificially and unnecessarily restrict your pool of potential buyers. This ain't 2004 no more, real estate is not as sexy as it once was, and we sellers have to work a little harder to get the deal we want. We no longer have the luxury of sitting back and letting the buyers come to us on our own terms. We have to adapt to the changing realities of the market.

Yes, brokers usually call to BS and fish and don't have a buyer waiting in the wings as often as I'd like. Yes, I wish buyers were a little bit more proactive and reliant on whatever skills enabled them to earn enough money to buy an NYC apartment rather than deferring all responsibilities to uninformed 'professionals' who do not have their best interest at heart. But in this business, you can't expect others to conform to your preferred method of doing business. My experience tells me that insisting on that only hampers my ability to do business. A little bending, a little conforming, a little adapting on my part goes a long way.

But, this is your deal and you handle it however you see fit. I genuinely wish you the best of luck.

If you're talking about taking control of your financial life without a stock broker I agree but that's because the stock market has been a constant in my life, and having taken my broker's advice in one area--though my heart told me not to--and not in another area, I now eee I'm good

Real estate is another matter. It's something most of us don't deal with on a day to day or year to year basis

I bought my apartment in 97. I didn't have the tools we have now. Still taking that into account I wish I had used a broker as the apartment I bought--in a "good" building, "good" street etc had a fatal flaw. Though that made it easily affordable to me and I was able to buy for cash.

I'm selling now and closing on the sale soon so I don't want to be too specific but I didn't have an easy time selling.

The reasons I used a broker and would suggest most people do--aside from the Manhattan version of MLS is simple. I knew I wouldn't be objective enough on many fronts. I'm fairly objective about my apartment--I did point out its problems to brokers--but when push came to shove could I be realistic about price decreases?

I really wasn't mentally ready to sell but I knew things were going to happen (though I couldn't foresee my apartment going on the market the weekend Bear Stearns imploded and everything subsequent to that). But I asked myself if I were willing to live here another five to eight years. I wasn't.
I was afraid of getting attached to potential buyers. It's much easier to see clearly if their financials and other things are "board passable," without meeting them

That all said you do give up control when you use a broker and I'm a control freak. But I knew it was in my apartment's best interest. So I was taking active control of finances

407--in this market people might not be willing to pay a premium for a terrace. They will have their list of amenities they can't live without and decide that a communal roof garden or being near a park is what they really want

You can't hold on to your beliefs and must be prepared to give more than you think you will. I will make what would have seemed like an incredible profit in anytime but the recent past

It angers me that so many people wee given mortgages they couldn't afford as that does affect every aspect of Ms Perfect Credit's life. But I can't hold onto those feelings

I do agree that a person should find their own mortgage through a bank and everybody should be required at least once in life to do a board package--if only just for practice as you become intimately familiar in a way you never have been before with your own finances

As stated so many times here, coop rules are so stringent that most buyers in Manhattan don't take on unaffordable loans. Be aware of that

That last was more true before the Internet age--now I can see my money on the screen all the time. But doing that board package le me have a ten minute board interview--I didn't have to consult my copy or look at anything. It was very empowering

Prepare for the unknown in your sale. And I hope that you can sell somewhere near the price that you're asking

The exposure of several of your photos seem to have been set to avoid overexposing the widow views at the expense of underexposing the interior view, which makes what is certainly a very light apartment appear dark (at least to this observer on this monitor).

Images in real estate listings are starting to appear that use High Dynamic Range Imaging and Tone Mapping to show detail throughout a very wide dynamic range.

You can do this yourself with an inexpensive digital camera (a tripod is a help) and some software. Check out http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/05/19/summary-of-using-hdr-for-real-estate-phototography/

Nope, I never referred to stock brokers, my comments were confined to the real estate industry. It is amazing how they helped bring on all these financial problems but do not take any of the responsibility. People have to protect themselves against lending abuses. I heard that many of these banks did not verify incomes on even 5% of the loans they wrote! Unbelievable.

"As stated so many times here, coop rules are so stringent that most buyers in Manhattan don't take on unaffordable loans. Be aware of that"

Exactly. The coop boards in New York have protected us from an even larger crisis, due to their oversight and rules regarding downpayments, liquid assets in the bank, and income levels. For their work, I am thankful. I think the price of condos has been bid up much more than comparable coops in the city and should take a larger fall.

Thanks for the encouragement. Congratulations on your sale. If we don't find a fair deal, we will stay. The apartment is great, flooded with light and air. We even have cross ventilation due to the two exposures. There is a window in every room. I cannot understand units that do not provide windows in the kitchens and bathroom, it just does not make sense. We love the apartment and if we have to stay, so be it. We just wanted to be closer to Central Park so we could go running there more often.

When you bought, why do you think a broker would have ever informed you of a fatal flaw? These buyer brokers do not work for you, they work for the seller because the seller pays them. They just want the deal to go through so they can get paid. You, of course, are using a broker for your current sale and are not telling the next buyer of this fatal flaw either. What is the difference? Perhaps your flaw is not as fatal as you think and the buyer accepts whatever compromise is inherent in the purchase of the unit. Just a thought.

Sorry guys, you are right. I picked the avergage psf off the side. I wasn't familiar with the Times layout.

Though what is with the $1700 maintenance?

Maintenance is high because the building has had a bankruptcy in the past. Constructed in the 80s as a condo, went bankrupt, and converted to a coop. Building has a huge underlying mortgage that, up until recently, had a ridiculously high interest rate. The board throughout the 90s was not that great and made a number of mistakes.

The maintenance is $1655, not $1700. 65% deductible. Numbers matter. My maintenance has not gone up in three years, while other buildings have certainly seen increases. Nobody can predict future maintenance but our refinance has produced savings that should keep the maintenance steady. No guarantees, of course.

As for my photos, yes, many of them are HDR images. Ansel Adams says the wndows should be one stop brighter than the room. Otherwise, I fear it will be overdone. Do we dare count how many ads show blown out white windows? Everyone who has seen the photos has liked them, including a friend who is a professional photographer.

407PAS dreaming you will get close to that in this market. Your friend will be holding onto it for a while. Sorry

The building did not go bankrupt, which would have meant that all of the shareholders would have lost all of their investment and have been made homeless. The building was saved from bankruptcy. Yes, the building had a mortgage with a high interest rate but I would not have called it ridiculous rate, not a loan shark deal. ;-)

This loan was recently refinanced, as I mentioned, for a significant savings. My opinion is that we have the financial room to keep the maintenance steady. We are solid financially and have a well run board and an excellent management company. The problems of the past are past us now.

Also, the building was not built as a condo, but as a rental building that was converted to a coop with a non-eviction plan.

Please try to get your facts straight.

The fatal flaw is obvious and I don't want to state it as my apartment was the subject of a thread here that I couldn't participate in as it had just gone into contract. After the closing yes. It led to a lower price than most people thought it would get and probably would have a few months earlier.

i do believe that if I had been using a broker he/she/it would have pointed it out as hard to live with and showed others in my price range Now of course I could do that on my own. The apartment is very pretty and i was blindsided by that. It was also the cleanest least cluttered apartment I had seen. My friends were also blindsided by how lovely it was.

In 97 people were putting out dreck as they heard the market was picking up. I did learn the importance of staging properly

I was very "negotiable" but I had a figure that I wouldn't go lower than. If you truly want to sell you have to be negotiable. Though the maintenance is deductible when people see it they will have sticker shock.

My building had no maintenance increase for three years before I bought it but has had one every year since plus assessments. However the financials are now great and that does count as does a well run board and good management company

You never know what's going to happen. I was about to take my apartment off the market as this is a sale of want not need when I got multiple bids

As it's all equity to me I could afford to go a bit lower than a similar apartment

Stick to your figure and see how much traffic you get, repeat visitors, etc. I hope that you get serious bids from board passable candidates. Boards will probably be doing even more scrutiny now if that's possible

I'm not sure if I liked the red in your ad or if it conflicted with the pictures. You want the pictures to shine

Best of luck :)

and there is no problem with the owner/renter ratio, our reserves are strong, and banks have no trouble writing loans in the building.

Well, the open house ended over an hour ago. How did it go?

Looks like a nice, albeit rather small 1-br, but that maintenance may be a deal-breaker for some.

Maintenance will not be held steady if real estate taxes go up and if fuel prices remain high this winter. And as it creeps toward $2000, it will near a deadly psychological milestone. Yes, everyone's maintenance goes up if taxes and fuel go up, but crossing that $2000 mark for a small one bedroom will seriously erode the unit's marketability and value.

Is there now a reserve fund in this building? How much and how many units are in it?

Dear Mr. Kylewest,
We are all in the same boat as far as rising costs due to fuel prices and real estate taxes. My purchase price is relatively low when compared to other one bedrooms, certainly one bedrooms with great light, air, and a balcony. The units in our building are a tradeoff between lower purchase price and higher maintenance costs but with higher tax deductibility.

I do not feel it is appropriate for me to reveal specific numbers on this board. If you make a written offer, your attorney can perform due diligence at the management company's offices where you can look at all the numbers. I just have to say that the building is financially stable, regardless of how many people here try to destroy us. The building is full of residents, the staff is great, and the location is a good one, on top of the #6 train, and easy walking distance to Grand Central, Penn Station, Union Square, with lots of restaurants and shops.

The interest was pretty good at today's open house, considering the weather and the general gloominess. We even got a return trip. Everyone said they liked the place, even when the sun was not shining. We get a lot of light even on overcast day. Every deal is a deal for someone or the building would be empty.

I'm still relatively new to the buyer market, but I've got to say the $1655 would be an absolute dealbreaker for me. I've been living in a 1-bedroom in a doorman building in Brooklyn Heights (where the ppsf can't be a whole lot less than Murray Hill) paying $1700 a month. I have been looking to buy a 1-bedroom in the $500-550K range and have the savings to buy in full with cash, but part of the appeal of buying is to find a place with $500-750 maintenance and be able to save $1,000 a month. There doesn't seem to be mention of a gym, and the listing says 'bike storage available'...does that mean it's an extra fee? In this market, I think there will be more buyers like me out there, looking to get a solid deal on a place, but only if it's worthwhile knowing that it might be a while before we see any real return on a purchase.

""I just have to say that the building is financially stable, regardless of how many people here try to destroy us.""

I'm confused, 407--who's trying to 'destroy' you? People on this board? I haven't seen any evidence of that. You came to this forum asking for advice/feedback, and that is what has been offered; it just may not all be exactly what you wanted to hear.

With regards to the maintenance, the simple fact is that it is indeed high. There is no way to sugar-coat that--it is what it is. Time will tell whether buyers will be comfortable overlooking that flaw (and yes, it IS a flaw that should be taken into account as you market your apartment)--it may become necessary to lower your asking price to compensate.

Best of luck to you.

By destroy, I mean destroy the building's reputation, not destroy me personally. The incorrect comments on long past problems, alluding to bankruptcies that never happened, etc, all seem to be meant in a destructive tone.

But hey, I can take the comments, I believe in full disclosure, that is the main reason why I am not going to use a broker. Brokers do their job by hiding facts. For years they churned apartments here below fair market values because they just don't care about prices, want a deal as quickly as possible so they can collect their commission. Read the chapter on brokers in Freakonomics.

I never said the maintenance was not relatively high but I also mention that the purchase price is relatively low. I have always published the maintenance number, on every single one of my ads. I could get fifty people in here if I did not publish that number but that would not be ethical or honest.

fishermb
We have storage for bicycles, no extra fee, no waiting list. There is also shared common storage space, again, no extra fee, or waiting list. There is a gym four blocks away on 32nd street. I must say that $500-750 maintenance is not a realistic figure when looking at one bedrooms in this area. I would say that $900-$1200 is more realistic.

and the tax deductibility is relatively high at 65%, and you don't need as much money for the down payment, and you are out of Jumbo Loan territory.

407: Thanks for that information. I personally have no desire to live in Murray Hill even if I found a building with $0 maintenance; my statements were just more of a general idea of how someone in my financial position feels about your listing in reponse to your call for feedback. Good luck-

Here you go guys, this apartment is pretty similar to mine:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/342492-coop-305-east-24th-street-kips-bay-new-york

outdoor space, elevator building, 15th floor, 24 hour doorman, maintenance is $1174.

They started their price at $799k! Now they have dropped to $699k, but that is still $160k more expensive than my apartment. That place is not a corner apartment, there are no windows in the kitchen or bathroom (and that does matter), and the kitchen is open to the living room so you splatter grease over all of your nice furniture when you cook, which I guess is never.

Ok, ok, the place is a little bigger, but still it is a pretty close comp....

Go throw rocks at that listing for a while!

and that place in Kips Bay is pretty far from the subway, unless you're waiting for the 2nd Avenue Line. My unit is directly above the subway stop, so close that you can make it into the lobby barely getting wet when it is raining outside, given that you are on the uptown side of the #6 line.

407PAS... I've been looking for one bedroom apts. Your views are wonderful, but your maintenance is so high for a small one bedroom.

> but that is still $160k more expensive than my apartment.

Keep in mind that more than half of that difference is accounted for with the lower maintenance.... $80k at 6% in a 30 year is $484.

sure, and almost half of that difference is not accounted for by the maintenance. ;-) $80k is still real money.

Haha..how about that $799k opening number? Somebody hot their head reshaped on that one...

Julia,
Please see previous posts for a discussion of the maintenance/price trade-off. If you would like to see the apartment for yourself, send me an email.

By the way, the apartment does have great views. I have put up a picture on my website of the New York Life building taken from my apartment. I can see the top of the MetLife (CSFB tower). The views to the East are open. I will try to find one of my wide angle shots from the bedroom. I can see the UN building in the distance.

It's tough to see in the pic, but I think there's a decent stereo in the apt, with a quality turntable, no less!

> sure, and almost half of that difference is not accounted for by the maintenance. ;-) $80k is still
> real money.

I figure the outdoor space would take care of that...

"It's tough to see in the pic, but I think there's a decent stereo in the apt, with a quality turntable, no less!"

;-) Thanks for noticing. The turntable is a Michell Gyrodec, a good quality suspended turntable:

Like this:

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/pic/tur/michell_gyrodec.jpg

but without the acrylic enclosure. Not that expensive. There is nothing like the sound of vinyl, even now. The amp is 125 watts of class A goodness, 90 pounds, and adds $15 a month to the electric bill. The fridge is an efficient German design that subtracts $15 a month from the bill. Call it even.

"I figure the outdoor space would take care of that... "

Hmmm, maybe, I guess that would be some expensive concrete and rebar. Can't live on that terrace though. ;-) I do think the comparison is an interesting one.

Congratulations on making it all the way to the bottom of this thread!
We are having an open house this weekend. No brokers, please.

==============================================
OPEN HOUSE THIS SUNDAY - 10/12 - 1:00-3:30pm.
407 Park Avenue South, #18B
==============================================

We have reduced the price to $529k.

A 1.9% reduction? Why bother? Your prospective buyers are watching their net worth drop by more than that every day.

Hey West81st,
Ah, more doom and gloom from the StreetEasy board! ;-) You guys bring cheer to my day. Why the reduction, you ask. Well, because price matters, no matter what percentage reduction.I honestly do not think we're overpriced compared to what else I see in the marketplace. We didn't go out of the gate overpriced by 20% like so many other listings out there. Do your own research and come up with a comp that beats me, fair and square. ;-) I think our price is competitive and fair. You may disagree, of course.

When are you going to find me a nice cheap two bedroom on the Upper West Side, 1000 sq feet, $1000 maint, West 80s-90s, for $700k? Please send me the address. ;-)

407PAS, I agree that you are not overpriced compared to your comps. However, none of your comps are selling... And, while price does matter, the 1.9% will not move the needle - anyone looking in this market is already going to deduct at least 10% from asking.

At any rate, you don't need to convince us that you are well-priced. Save it for the open house...

Actually, on second thought, keep posting. I think this is one of the more interesting threads - streeteasy readers get a free look into the mind of a seller and the factors you consider when pricing. It's only one example, but I think it beautifully illustrates why real estate prices take awhile to adjust. It will be interesting to see if/how your mind/attitude changes. You seem very nice and have a healthy sense of humor in the face of naysayers (myself included), so I hope it works out for you!

"I agree that you are not overpriced compared to your comps. "

Thank you.

Actually, I saw a pretty comparable 1 bedroom in Tudor City go into contract so some things are selling. I do agree that the market has slowed.

Buyers can deduct what they want but it does not mean I have to accept their deductions to my price. Price is price is price. It all comes down to price and buyer qualifications.

Hey, I got attacked over moving my price so I felt I had to defend myself. I think it is important to justify my pricing to potential buyers who may read this thread.

This street is super-sketchy at night. With a cab-driver break-zone on Lexington and a 24h McDonalds on the corner of E 28th and Park Ave South, this is a favorite hangout for low rent prostitutes.

The doormen have for years attempted to chase them away and the police periodically pull up with the paddy-wagon, but they still keep coming back.

Actually, the street is quite safe and the building is secure. We have a 24 hour doorman so there is always someone watching the lobby. The area has improved dramatically over the last seven years that I have been living there. The nice Park South hotel on the block and the expensive condos on 29th street have helped improve the situation.

"Buyers can deduct what they want but it does not mean I have to accept their deductions to my price. Price is price is price."

OP, this is why sales have slowed considerably. Buyers new mindset is to ask lower prices, and they except lower prices to be considered. If you're only accepting offers within 1-2% of asking, your place is most likely just going to sit on the market like everything else. Perhaps you'll prove us all wrong, though.

What does OP mean? I would expect that buyers would look at what else they could buy in the marketplace for any given price point. Buyers have to build up little databases in their head of what they can buy at what price. Some places are good deals at asking or close to asking. I have seen those places listed and I have seen them sell, so somebody liked the deal. We shall see what happens.

OP = "original poster". As in you.

Ah, original poster, ok, I will try to remember that.

So, for all you brokers, is it the dramatic overpricing of your apartments that brings you sales? ;-) Of course, FSBOs are also prone to overprice. We saw one two bedroom that went out FSBO at 1.1 mil and eventually sold for $850k, with a broker. Now, if the FSBO had asked $850k-900k from the get-go, we might have stuck a deal with him. Unrealistic pricing just forces people to walk out the door...

I agree with buster - watching this thread unravel is fascinating. A couple thoughts:

1) I agree with West81st - a $10K price cut on a $500K+ apartment is silly. If you think the price is fair, keep it. If you think you need to reduce to encourage people, have a real reduction. This is like seeing a great $399 suit for sale for $390.

2) "I would expect that buyers would look at what else they could buy in the marketplace for any given price point" I think this is the fundamental disconnect in this market. Buyers aren't just comparing buying your place with what they could buy elsewhere. They are comparing to not buying at all (i.e. renting, or staying in their current place, or forgetting the idea of a pied-a-terre, or moving to suburbs, etc). And in this market, not buying at all is feeling more and more attractive. That's why sellers that really want to sell may need serious price drops, to entice reluctant buyers to pull the trigger.

As everyone else said, I don't wish you ill, and will be happy for you if you get the price you want. I also support your efforts to sell without a broker. So the above is in no way intended to attack you, just offering my thoughts for you and for the group.

+1 on newbuyer99. Here comes the deflation!

Well, I know $10k may not seem like a lot but I think every dollar counts. Charging $100 less on rent is a significant amount. Even a $50 different on maintenance makes some difference in the way people think about the price. People are very price sensitive. I don't feel I have a lot of room for slashing my price before I decide to just stay in the apartment. Would everybody feel better if I went out last week at $629k and slasked my price to $529k this week? Maybe that would bring me a solid buyer. I don't know.

I'm not even sure I am doing the right thing by selling the apartment. Rent will cost me at least $40k+ a year with no tax deduction. Buying some small amount of additional space will probably cost me an additional $200k+. So, why do this? Some days, I just don't know. Well, actually, I do know why, it is for my wife, who dreams of living closer to Central Park so she does not have to commute to the Park in order to go running. What we do for love.

Thanks for the support Buster. I try to keep a sense of humor about this whole business. I think I should have tempered some of my comments with respect to the brokers. I have used a broker to sell a house in another state and he did a terrific job for me under a tight deadline. Most people in New York City will not want to put up the hassles of selling FSBO. It is never easy to sell property, especially not in these times. I wish everybody luck with their deals.

Here's a funny story for you:

A while ago, I was bidding on a place, which I got beat on, but anyway, during the negotiations, the broker sent an email with a number that was a hundred thousand less than the seller's real counteroffer. I knew it was a typo, but I immediately fired back an email that said: "Counteroffer accepted." and the broker replied: "I'll fight you for it.". ;-)

So there. We're all just struggling to find the price of some asset in the marketplace. You, me, and everybody else. Too low a number and I leave money on the table. Too high a number and I never sell. Just right and we have a deal.

Two floors lower, higher maintenance.

We were hard on the price given the maintenance, so the new listing below at 599k really deserves our wrath.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/358752-coop-407-park-avenue-south-kips-bay-new-york

If.. and its a big if, this apartment can rent for $3600, then 407's apartemt at $519K is priced at 12x annual rent. This apartment is being rented furnished, so knock off $300 a month to $3300 and 12x annual rent is $475K.

From craigslist...

$3600 / 1br - 407 Park ave S at 28th, 16D, Lux furn 1 br (Gramercy)

RARE OPPORTUNITY IN THE ASCOT AT 407 PARK AVE SOUTH, 16D, AT 28TH ST. HIGH FLOOR TASTEFULLY RENOVATED & FURNISHED 1 BEDROOM. LARGE AND SPACIOUS LAYOUT, 770 SQ FT W/ DINING ROOM, BIG LIVING ROOM AND BEDROOM. HAS A GREAT BALCONY WITH TABLE AND HIGH END BBQ. GETS GREAT LIGHT FACING EAST WITH OPEN VIEWS! GREAT KITCHEN FOR COOKING WITH THE HIGHEST END APPLIANCES AND PLENTY OF COUNTER SPACE. THE ASCOT IS A BEAUTIFUL LUXURY COOP ON 28TH AND PARK 24 HOUR DOORMAN, ROOFTOP DECK, LAUNDRY AND BIKE ROOM. THE SUBWAY IS LITERALLY OUTSIDE, AND YOUR STEPS FROM ALL THE BEST RESTAURANTS, LOUNGES, AND CAFES. LIVE THE LIFE OF LUXURY!

"If.. and its a big if, this apartment can rent for $3600, then 407's apartment at $519K is priced at 12x annual rent. This apartment is being rented furnished, so knock off $300 a month to $3300 and 12x annual rent is $475K. "

That's a D line apartment and mine is a B line apartment. The D lines are slightly larger but do not get as good light, in my opinion. I am not sure of the square footage number but I do not have the coop offering plan in front of me.

So, at 12x rent, my price does not look so bad, now does it? I don't agree with your deductions based on renting it furnished, why would I? ;-)

“Temporary sellers financing is what we do to help facilitate a sale”. The seller will hold the mortgage for the new buyer(s) temporarily then we’ll buy that mortgage. "

No thanks. No way. This deal would never pass muster with my board. Besides that, I, as a seller, would never hold a mortgage for some deadbeat buyer, so that my credit rating would be destroyed when I can't get the money out of the buyer. The scheme you are proposing appears to be the same scam as the one we argued against in the Florida threads on this board.

407PAS - somehow discussions about your apartment have made it to other threads, so I thought I'd bring them back here.

At the end of the day, the market will decide. So...

Any update on traffic, interest, offers? This is a genuine question, I'm very interested in buyers and their behaviors right now, as I think are others on this board.

And I still wish you luck in your sale.

Your neighbor is now undercutting you. Time to reevaluate your price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/358752-coop-407-park-avenue-south-kips-bay-new-york

I was wondering when you boys would find that. This happened yesterday. Their maintenance is higher than mine. We will abide. I don't take orders from StreetEasy posters. I know you wish me ill.

You coming by to make an offer? I wouldn't expect there to be any buyers on this thread.

Yes, but maintenance is not a number chosen at random. It's based on the number of shares associated with a given apartment, as assigned by the developer (or sponsor), and they're allocated based on perceived worth, and is generally influenced by factors such as floor, square footage, view, etc.

I know how maintenance is calculated, I never said it was random. I think my apartment is more attractive because of the east and south exposures. The quality of an apartment is not absolutely determined by the number of shares allocated to it.

In a free country, sellers are allowed to set their prices as they see fit. I will see what the market brings me.

407 PAS, listen to yourself objectively. I'm not in the market for your type of apt, so I don't think I'm saying this out of self-interest, but you are sounding defiantly out of touch with reality....

PAS, sorry to say but you are probably going to want to take your listing off the market and relist in 6 mos with a broker. I won't say I told you so and this isn't the type of listing i would take on so no hidden agenda.

PAS, I really do wish you all the best with your sale (and I asmire the work you've put into your FSBO - I wish more people would do that). That said, I do think 16E is a more attractive apartment than yours (mainly because of size - the bigger bedroom and the additional dining area are both helpful). Of course, it's possible someone will prefer yours because of the extra exposures, but that may not happen. I can't tell if your $510k price is firm (I assume not), or if you're just insisting on not lowering your ask for now, but I'm guessing that most buyers would be likely to prefer 16E, especially at a lower price.

Like others, I have no vested interest here - not looking in your neighborhood or for that size.

agentrachel,
You just don't get it. At my initial asking price of $539k, I suppose there was some chance I might list my apartment with an agent eventually. At my lower price of $510k, there is a no chance I will list with an agent. Zero. Never. I will not lose 6% on top of lowering my price.

By the way, my neighbors initially listed at $599k but they got nowhere near the abuse I received when I listed at $539k. Oh wait, that's because they used a broker and I had the audacity to sell my own property.

Well, JohnDoe, I think you are wrong, I prefer my apartment for various reasons, including the better exposures. While 16E is slightly larger, my kitchen is larger and has more usable counter space. Look carefully at the floorplan. People should look at both apartments and make up their own mind.

There are no pictures of the kitchen in 16E, so, what are the appliances like? My two year old Liebherr fridge cost $3000, the JennAir stove cost $1500, and the new dishwasher $900.

No two properties are exactly alike and a difference of $11k is not huge. Give me a break.

JohnDoe,
Thank you for the compliments with regards to our listing. It is a lot of work to sell a property.

407PAS,

like john doe, i really admire fsbo and hope it goes well for you. i think agents have a ridiculous stranglehold on the market and charge crazy fees and i hope things move toward fsbo.

but there is one thing i want to clear up. you say your neighbors did not get the 'abuse' you got because they listed with a broker. on the contrary, i assume they were not criticized because they never posted their apartment on a streeteasy message board. had i seen that apartment listed at 599k and the owner on here talking about it, i would have said very clearly that i thought the apartment was vastly overpriced. and i would have been correct: in only three months they have come down 17% and they still haven't sold.

whether your apartment is more or less attractive then theirs is not really my concern. i tried to give you advice before and you were not interested so i won't give you any more. but to claim that people abuse you because you are fsbo is just not fair. you posted your apartment on streeteasy and you asked for feedback. very few owners do that--and quite frankly, i would advise them not to. any buyer can now come on street easy, search for your apartment, and find a bunch of people talking about how overpriced it is.

i may drop by your openhouse though.

AgentRachel: "PAS, sorry to say but you are probably going to want to take your listing off the market and relist in 6 mos with a broker. I won't say I told you so and this isn't the type of listing i would take on so no hidden agenda."

Oh, come on, Rachel. If you're going to make an overt plug for your industry, at the very least you have to explain WHY it is that he should (a) take the listing off the market, (b) relist it in 6 months and (c) use a broker.

And please, spare us the "this isn't the type of listing i would take on" dismissal.

Hello happyrenter,
Well, I think there is some broker fueled hate in the comments that have been directed at me. Of course, I can't prove that, because most posters here do not disclose their professions. If StreetEasy would sell me an ad, I would not have posted my property on the boards.

In some ways, StreetEasy seems to exist in order to disparage all apartments, but often the information uncovered is useful for those of us who are looking to buy.

Are you a broker? If so, please don't stop by. I am only talking to interested buyers. Feel free to refresh my memory on the advice you gave me. I don't recall it and can't seem to locate it at the moment.

My wife and I are human beings. We're doing the best we can to sell our apartment, in an honest and transparent manner. I have tried to respond to all the questions that have been put to me. I want to find a buyer who will be happy to live in my place, for we have been happy here but just desire a little more space and a change of scene.

pas,
if i were a broker do you think i would be deriding the brokerage industry and bemoaning the high prices brokers charge? no, i am not a broker.

my advice was to lower your price or take your place off the market. since you like living in your apartment, this is just a terrible time to sell. the only apartments that seem to be selling are those that price very aggressively. everything else either sits and sits or gets yanked from the market. oh, i guess the other exception would be truly one-of-a-kind properties, obviously not relevant in this case, which STILL are mostly not selling but one can never say.

since you clearly aren't going to lower your price again based on your comments, why not save yourself the money and aggravation and just stay in the place? you seem to like living there and your reason for moving, if i remember correctly, was to be near central park. central park is great, but honestly i think you will have to cut your apartment a lot to get it sold, and you can always jump on the train and be at the park in 15 minutes.

happyrenter,
Ok, you're not a broker, I see that now. Yes, brokers charge high prices, thereby further inhibiting the sale of apartments. I think the United States has the highest transfer costs of any country in the world. What an amazing system.

Why can't I sell? I am price competitive with my neighbors. I am in the game, on the field, throwing the ball around and catching it. We'll see what the next six months bring. I have seen lots of broker represented apartments sit on the market for a year, and some of them have sold, believe it or not.

So, in today's Timer Real Estate section, there is a corner one bedroom for sale in Gramercy. This is not a direct comp of my apartment but still, this place is $365,000 more expensive with a maintenance of $900.

GRAMERCY AREA CO-OP
$875,000
MANHATTAN: 224 East 17th Street (at Rutherford Place), #2R
A one-bedroom one-bath corner apartment with a dining nook in a prewar walk-up

Do you think the Times would ever list "PRICE" in the CONS section? Haha, no. I find it funny that people bring up an $11k price difference with my neighbor when there are other properties priced like this one.

My wife and I are runners. She currently commutes to the park to run but it gets to be a drag. I would like to be able to turn in more miles every week, and, with working long hours, living close to the Park is the easiest way to do that. Some of us sell for love, ok?

Oh happyrenter,
If you're not actually looking to buy a place in my neighborhood, don't come by the open house. Enjoy your Sunday, do something else. As Ernest Hemingway said, "Time is what we have the least of."

pas,

listen, i think it is great that you are doing this without a broker, but one disadvantage of fsbo is that you can talk yourself into things that make no sense. the apartment you just linked to may or may not be overpriced (i think it is), but it is not a comp for yours in any way shape or form. the only thing they have in common at all is that they each have one bedroom. you posted to an apartment on 17th and rutherford place. your apartment is on 27th and park. that's well over half a mile away in a completely different (and less desirable, sadly) neighborhood. you posted to a prewar apartment. your apartment is postwar. you posted an apartment with maintenance nearly 1000/month lower than yours--which, by the way, accounts for about 200k of the price disparity.

this apartment may be vastly overpriced, but how in the world does that argue that yours is going to sell? you'd be on much stronger ground if you found a more expensive apartment that you thought was well priced--it would suggest that if that one can sell, yours can sell. the fact that other apartments are overpriced and aren't selling certainly doesn't say anything about the likelihood that yours will sell.

do you have any objective third party advising you? friends who know something about real estate? because if you think the apartment you just posted is any kind of comp for yours you really need some advice.

Hey,
I said it was not a comp, I was just making an observation about something I saw this morning. If my neighbors were at $450k, you would have more right to slam me. They're not. I am price competitive with my direct competitors. I don't think I am unrealistic or have talked myself into things that do not make sense.

No, their maintenance is $750 lower, not nearly $1000. Even giving you that $200k, that leaves them $165k overpriced? They get a nice quarter page ad in the Times. Sweet.

Look, I have bought and sold real estate for twenty five years. There are no objective third parties, besides your own lawyer, everybody in a real estate transaction has their own agenda. You must know that by now.

407pas-I agree that a broker would not add anything to the process of selling your apartment. You are just in the wrong place(market) at the wrong time. Prime apartments with below par maintenance's are difficult to sell today. At least you have the luxury of staying put and you do enjoy where you live. I know plenty of people who are really stuck and MUST sell and their alternatives are few.

But give us a break that brokers had a stranglehold on your building and held down prices by churning apartments. When you say things like that you insult the intelligence of owners in your building and the city. Please give my name out to some of these dimwitted owners lol. The owners and buyers I have dealt with over the years have been intelligent, educated people who understood what was right for them.

The maintenance is very very high and it's a mediocre white brick post war in a marginal location. That is why it has not sold in 6 months. Why is the mnt. so high in a such a large building? With that high deductibility you must have a huge underlying mortgage with less than favorable interest rate.

a friend who is neither a buyer nor a seller nor a broker is not an objective third party? you must have some shitty friends.

pas, if you claim it isn't a comp, then why do write that the price differential means it is '165k overpriced.' it is NOT A COMP FOR YOUR APARTMENT. you know, classic sevens on central park west ask a lot more than your apartment does, doesn't mean they are overpriced because they do. that apartment may be 165k overpriced, but not because it is asking 165k more than yours (taking maintenance into account). anyway, enough. i think you are more than a little irrational about your apartment here. many, many people have advised you that it is overpriced. it has been on the market for six months and hasn't sold. you are convinced the price is right. what's wrong with this picture?

Mr Burkhardt,
"But give us a break that brokers had a stranglehold on your building and held down prices by churning apartments."

It is the truth, the agents did this for years in our building. Some people finally woke up and got more realistic prices in the marketplace.

Marginal area, you make it sound like the apartment is in Red Hook or something. I'm in the middle of Manhattan, within walking distance of Grand Central, Penn Station, Union Square. Look at a map.

I don't give out brokers names to anybody. I tell potential sellers to stand up for themselves in the marketplace and hire a good lawyer.

"The owners and buyers I have dealt with over the years have been intelligent, educated people who understood what was right for them."

Ha, most sellers are as dumb as white bricks, giving out way too much of their hard earned money to brokers. By the building is not white brick, it is sandstone colored, have you bothered to look at a picture of the building? I have not been on the market for six months.

Yes, the building had a large underlying mortgage that forced up the maintenance. Our maintenance has been at this kind of level for a long time. The number has not increased in the last three years and will not increase in 2009. We have refinanced and have saved a lot of money. I have seen maintenance go up a lot in buildings across the city, thereby narrowing the gap between our building and others.

happyrenter,
You play too fast and loose with the numbers. Chill. I have not been on the market for six months. Notice this thread says 9/28.

What advice is some third party going to give me? Slash my price? Have I not heard that a thousand times from the people on this board? What else would a bunch of brokers tell a FSBO? That Gramercy apartment is a corner one bedroom, I did not post a reference to a classic 6 or 7. My apartment is also a corner one bedroom so they share some similarities.

Why can't you admit I am price competitive with my direct competition? I don't get it. What axe are you trying to grind?

pas,

i'm done. you just make shit up. 'a bunch of brokers.' enough.

StreetEasy is full of brokers, I am sure of it. You really doubt that? I'm not making shit up.

I just realized that agentrachel's advice to drop off the market for six months would have me coming back in July and August, a terrible time to sell in the city. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

dude, agent rachel may be a broker, but you've gotten lots of advice from lots of people who are not brokers and who have no interest in your apartment. if you don't want to take advice from an anonymous board that is probably wise. but you need to get advice from someone because you don't know what you are doing. if you don't have any friends, then talk to lawyers, neighbors, i don't know. the market is worsening, your apartment is sitting there not selling, and you are becoming more and more convinced that it is a fabulous deal. the apartments that you claim to be competitive with are either 1. cheaper than yours or 2. not comps for your apartment. but even if you ARE competitive with them, have you noticed that they aren't selling either? being competitive with other overpriced apartments is not going to get your apartment sold.

i am done with this thread, but if i have time i will drop by your open house tomorrow.

happyrenter,
Please enlighten me, what is this magical advice that is going to help me? I never said it was a fabulous deal but I do not think it is a bad deal, given everything else I have seen.

the magical advice is:
recognize the reality of the market (awful).
consider how much you really want to sell your apartment.
either price it so that it will sell (based on comps and market direction, significantly lower than where it is now) or take it off the market.
stick with FSBO, but don't take the attitude that you won't accept offers from brokers--it unreasonably limits your pool of buyers.
list your phone number.

last piece of advice: don't post about your apartment on an anonymous message board.

I just sold my alcove studio apt FSBO (UES/615sf). Went to contract in Sept. Closed on 12/31. And I'm in the market for a similar apt as yours but further downtown. Your pricing isn't that bad, but you aren't going to find a buyer for this type of apt at this price with a maint that high. I think you are going to have to drop the asking down to $450K and may end up settling for less. Good luck.

happyrenter,
Ok, I have listened to your advice. Thank you for taking the time to share that with me. You are entitled to your opinion.

With that said, I have a right to list my apartment at whatever price I choose and stay on the market for as long as I like. That is what it means to live in a free country. I don't know why you seem to take offense at my behavior. How many sellers are courageous enough to respond to criticism from the masses?

There is no extra money for a commission to be paid to brokers, any brokers. You just told me to stick to FSBO and you followed it by telling me to accept offers from brokers. You are being disingenuous. A straight sale is a sale from a seller to a buyer, with no middlemen. That is what I have chosen to do.

I will not list a phone number. After selling my last place FSBO and being harassed by countless phone calls from agents, it is a waste of time. It is too late to take back my posting on this board, what is done is done. StreetEasy will not fairly sell ads to FSBOs.

nycjunior1
Congratulations on selling FSBO! Please send any tips you might have to 407pas@gmail.com.

I would bet you now have a different idea of a fair price based on the fact that you are now a buyer when a short while ago, you were a seller. Such is the nature of the game. I don't agree with your price calculation but why would I? ;-) Good luck on your search.

407PAS, by posting your apartment on StreetEasy, you're going to get a lot of feedback. Some of that is going to be from brokers and some from other sellers, potential buyers and those of us who aren't in the market at all. You have to take all of those with a grain of salt, but a lot of the advice here has been good. It's harsh, but in an environment like this, that high maintenance is going to kill you. You're probably going to have to drop your price to sell your place; I think dropping below 5 would bring in some new interest.

Your website is excellent btw (great staging on the place too). I don't think hiring a broker would add anything to your situation.

I actually don't have a different idea of fair price based on my switch in roles. Also, I was looking for an apartment at the same time I was selling. You need to live someplace, so I think there isn't really any dichotomy between the role of seller/buyer - at least if you are realistic.

I was motivated to seller and I priced my apartment very realistically. I bought in 2006 and I knew I needed to sell fast because the market was starting to crumble. I had 5 offers in the first two weeks and accepted an offer after 6 weeks for $40,000 less than asking. It's possible I could have held out for a little more, but I now see that the prices in my building have deteriorated such that I made the right move. I'd only be able to sell for a loss if I hadn't accepted what I did in September. ANd I wanted to move to a different location very badly, not just because of prices falling.

You might want to consider a deal with an independent (non-agency) broker of 2 percent. Have you listed on NYT? I actually didn't have to do that but I was about to the week when I got the offer I accepted. Have you tried craigslist? That worked well for me. Also, put up signs around the neighborhood near high traffic areas and in your building - you neighbors often have friends who are interested in moving to their building. Trulia works well too. I think you need to be honest with your self. YOu seem to have a great apartment, but the location is not "hot" or "hip." (I right near you in 387.) Consider the type of person who is going to be buying your apt. That type of person is probably going to rent until prices stop falling and there is more stability in the economy and employment. If you really want to sell in the next month or two you need to lower your price because your maint is very high. A 1BR maint should be right around $1000/$1100.

Try thinking in both roles. It's like baseball: A good pitcher has to know how a hitter is thinking at the plate, and a good hitter has to know how a pitcher in thinking on the mound.

Thanks wishhouse, for the compliments on the staging of our place and on our website design. Back at it again. Cleaning up the place every weekend is not a bad idea, just from the point of view of living in an apartment.

nycjunior1,
Without knowing the particulars about your unit, building, competitors, etc, I can't really comment on your offer price versus what you were asking. If you're happy and the buyer is happy, so be it.

I am on the Times. I am listed on Craigslist. I Twitter out the open houses. Can one list their own property on Trulia? I am looking around there but do not see that option. Maybe I am missing it.

I never claimed to be in a hip or hot area. We're normal people here, I would say there are a lot of single women in the building, because women seem to get their act together better than single men, and they appreciate having 24 hour doormen. Hmm, how do I reach the single girls? List in Lucky magazine?

My price is lower because of the maintenance. The maintenance has a high deductibility of around 64%. It is what it is. What prices are you seeing in those 1 bedrooms with $1000-$1100 maintenance?

Well, no offense, but the problem is that you and other sellers all around are not being realistic about prices. Take some time to study the data on SE and Jonathan Miller. If you look at what is actually closing and now going to contract in this past November, December and now January (which is not much) you will see that prices are going down to the $700-750/sf range. And you should expect that to continue to trend down to at least the 600/sf range in the next two months.

Take a look at this sale - http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/786686 - prime Union Square/East Village location. Best transportation hub in the city. $706/sf!!!! THere's an apt (nice junior one, no work needed, maint about $720) I had my offer accepted on in this building for a little above that (per sf) a month ago, but I backed out because of the lack of light and view. Unfortunately there are several units in this building and the others at this corner where the sellers are completely disconnected from the prices the market will bare. They are still asking >$900-$1000/sf. THey think I'm lowballing them when I and other buyers are actually offering them market. ANd these places have all been on the market over 120 days. SOme over 200. One that I bid on has been on the market since the june and it hadn't received a single offer until I bid on it two weeks ago. The seller countered with an offer that's $60,000 more than the max I'm willing to spend and said that was his floor. Meantime, he's not selling it anytime soon.

If you want out, get out now. Otherwise you are going to have to be comfortable staying for five years or more. And don't expect to get back to peak 2007/2008 prices for even longer.

Trulia has directions for non-brokers to list on it. I did it. It's pretty easy. Just log in and look around.

nycjunior1,

don't worry pas has answers for everything. the apartment you posted is on a lower floor, doesn't have open views, doesn't have a window in the kitchen and bathroom, etc. etc. i agree: he has the right to list his apartment for any price and it doesn't bother me one bit that he's listed it an unrealistic price. what bothers me is that he questions the motives of anyone who points this out.

it bothers me only because I'm looking to buy something. And I'm in a situation in which I don't want to wait more than another month or two.