William Beaver House- ???!!!

i was there, place is a mess. not sure how people can live there, and the place is creepy

come check it out today and see the progress.

busybusy i had to be at work to to earn a living to pay for a place like WBH, can you elaborate

Yes busy-busy. Please tell us. Also seems very much like a male place. Kind of a frat house for rich bankers, and are there any rich bankers left??? Is it??

busybusy- can you elaborate?

Bubbles - I think that was the original marketing strategy but it pretty much failed and the developer fired corcoran (the original sales and marketing agent) and hired core group who marketed the place to upscale international buyers. No idea what types of people actually bought there (although the formerly ubiquitous beaver is much more low key).

but i'm guessing that market has dried up as well...
anyone know how it is coming along... there are pretty unruly pic out on the the blogs

Midtowngal is obsessed with the Beaver... I have seen a few people coming in and out. I think they were working at or on the building. I think they moved the sales office into the building, so maybe it was people looking. The office used to be in the cool former bank space in 20 Exchange. Every time I walk by there I think about the movie Inside Man.

But I digress... it seems to be there is much better value elsewhere at this point. They were asking over $1200 psf a while ago. The homeless shelter down the street is being closed. I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing for the Beav. I guess it depends on whether the homeless hang around the closed facility or move on. Usually homeless do not bother me, but I have definitely been at least slightly concerned a couple of times by mentally unstable homeless. I figure that rational people won't really do anything crazy like try to stab me, but the same cannot be said for the crazies.

thanks ironcow, not sure obsessed is the word, but interested (lol).
have you seen their website, it looks spectacular and wonder if i'm am falling prey to advertising.
btw- everyone here shoots the bankers, don't ask me about admen

midtowngal...william beaver loos great{inside},fab amenities.setai is the best--for 5 star club and spa features which are fully serviced{but hi common charges,and worth it},20 pine is opportune for a good deal,because of all the bad current press,{but actually comming out great---but for me it,s too big and factory like.also/my advice is to ignore the ignoramous denouncers {who no doubt will regurgitate their crap reponses},about these wonderful projects.

jrw has to be a broker

that building has to be in trouble. i live nearby. it's a construction site, there's a homeless shelter across the street and the units are mostly small, aimed at the young Wall st professionals.

nyc:most brokers are hard working entepreneurs,{wrong,i,mnot one},but i am a successful self made person .what about you,hav you ever put your money where your |mouth is?}.i take you for a neer-do-well,jealous type!!

What is with the awful typing? I'm curious.

bubbles my thoughts,i hope are better than my typing.i,ve never typed i bare know how to use a computer------- but i have plenty of business savy.yet,i take serious exception to so much 0f the crap talk that permiates this site ,which is slanderous and offensive ,and which goes unresponded to.

sorry......i meant to address ironcow

14 rentals?? is the building going rental?

I think it's going to have to go rental. When you look at the number of units sold, remember that in the end it's closings that matter. Some of these buildings have large numbers of units listed as no longer available, but they haven't sold. In some buildings it may just mean that they haven't hit those floors yet, but if a building's been closing for a while it probably means those in contract walked away. Visionnaire, our old friend 20 Pine, 99 John, etc. What really sucks is that there are poor sots who already closed, prior to the change in sale percentages needed for mortgages. They're stuck unless they can find all cash buyers, the banks change their standards, or the building can manage a "conversion" sometime in the future to unload large numbers of units.

When I walked by last week saw a couple at the lobby desk and a moving truck out front, I guess they found someone to overpay. I've been working nearby for a couple of years now and don't think I have seen a danker block in the city than Beaver between Broad and William.

has anyone taken a tour of the building over the past month or so? I was shown around this weekend, was given an approximate date that the amenities would be completed, but it seemed somewhat unrealistic. If someone has seen it, say a month or so ago, we can compare progress to figure out how likely it is that things would be done by the date I was told .... considering a rental there if all goes to plan for several months out - thx

drums what date did they give you?

i saw it in feb and last week

they claim that it would be finished by end of June, but it certainly didnt feel that way - I'm no expert but the amount of work still needed to give a "complete" look seemed considerable

beaver what?... oooops thought this was sexual in nature.... carry on...

could be finished end of june, anything is possible, could also be end of june 2010 depends how motivated they are (and how much $$$) they have to finish. Was suppose to be done in jan and every month you get a different story. i was told would be done in april so really no telling. once they are complete they need to get the ok to open and that can take a few months.
long way of saying could be june, could be decemeber.... no way to tell

By "finished," you mean they'd remove those yellow patches throughout the facade? The most horrendous thing I have seen in a while.

Anyhow, I walk by the bldg daily, and I see absolutely no movements behind the painted glass. All I see is the sign that says, "HELP!"

finished as in the bare amount they can have and be considered done, ie pool and gym. problem is the place is so empty it's well..... empty

nyc- silly me i thought those yellow patches were there for some construction reason.. no idea they were permanent!!!! i can't really figure out why they are there

Ooops.. thought it was sexual in nature again. Got me again you guys!

bubbles, I KNOW! I, too, initially thought they were insulation or something, but they are apparently yellow tiles which someone thought would look great on a charcoal bldg. What an eyesore. That would turn off some buyers (aside from the obvious problems w/ financing, delays, etc.), I am sure. I just walked by it, and there was ABSOLUTELY NO MOVEMENTS. I wonder if they have completely stopped construction.

Those yellow patches are hideous and they never should have allowed. I agree with the posting that says the loos (bathrooms) are fab--however when I looked I thought hhhmmm do I want to pay a million dollars for a small one bedroom apt where the bathroom is a third of it--uuhhh no

the bathroom is a nice size but i felt like i was trapped in a subway stattion. big, but so stark. and the sink on that dinky metal stand.. personally i like a little warmth.
and it all felt so flimsy..
anyone else get that feeling??

actually mjh... a million dollars and a third of it is a tub!!!!

...and you share the tub w/ your "Beaver Butler" (if you don't know who he is, you MUST tour there).

On a more serious note, in that area, my favorites so far have been 75 Wall and 90 William.

Even w/o their financial problems, I didn't like 20 Pine (unusable floorplans), 88 Greenwich (tiny apts) or WBH (strange space priorities noted by others--plus the yellow patches). Oh, and 99 John is decent for government-assisted housing.

i toured but did not get the beaver butler story... maybe it's just for guys??
but i saw it on the website... sad thing is you would be looking at an empty building
the place seems dead

The apartments that I saw in the building didnt even have the Beaver Butler installed yet ... maybe he's stuck in traffic somewhere. Kidding aside, I would consider renting there if A)the floor i lived on was finished - no holes/scribbles on the hallway walls, B)the amenities were complete ... the empty building doesnt concern me - I'll have the private cinema all to myself!

aahhh yes, the amenities. i wonder when they will be complete

A little bird has told me that they are scaling down on the amenities, at least for the time being.

Seriously, I might consider purchasing at some of the questionable bldgs in the area (even 20 Pine or the District) given the recent price cuts, but WBH doesn't even offer that--plus the yellow exterior tiles... I'd have to say "No," even with Mr. Beaver Butler.

nyc212 - I know 20 Pine is cutting prices 25% off SE prices. Is the District cutting too? Last I heard they were holding on to the ludicrous $1000 sq ft pricing, with nothing selling, of course.

nyc, scaling down how?

nyc- have you seen it lately?

There was a photo on curbed of the pool with both good and bad comments..
anyone know anything about the status of this place

I stopped in for the "open house" today at WBH which was publicized as between 12-4. Near 1:00 I arrived where the front desk said with a little embarrassment (but not enough to indicate this was a unique experience) that the "girl hadn't arrived yet."

What would explain such a sloppy attitude within the sales office? Beautiful weather and the sales staff prefer to be sunning themselves?

It's the whole "We're too cool to be bothered" approach to marketing.

That might have been appropriate 2 years ago. Or maybe I'm not cool enough to be impressed...

jim, where you interested in buying, renting or just having a look? and bytw- this happens a lot, i think they have given up

I live (rent) and work in the Financial District and am tired of not having the kind of kitchens I've had when I owned elsewhere (not in Manhattan). So I'm keeping my eyes, ears and instincts open for a purchase. But I'm not foolish enough to take a huge financial risk.

Also went to a so-called open-house on Sunday at the William Beaver House - but for rentals. Not quite sure what the connection is with the "official" sales office is, but the rental agent we met has pretty much free access to the sales office (and floor plans, etc.). Were showed several 2 BR units, different lines, all for rent by the owners, no-fee. The amenities look great and - with the exception of the roof - seem about to open for business. The rents have come down quite a bit, somewhat in line what's been offered (not asked) at 20 Pine.

any luck with open houses here this weekend (to buy)

any updates

bubbles - here's a link to our Beaver House review - still vacant, still unfinished, but we love the Beave anyway:

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/cilf-of-week-15-william-st-william.html

thanks- so at the end of the day it's just a building with a pool and gym.
think it will go rental?

i went to an open house on a sunday.. the sales person was mia
next day when i called to complain i was yelled at for coming by without an appointment
huh????

bubbles - despite all of the negative press, we really liked the building and think it's comparable to 20 Pine if you're looking for a hotel-like yet still liveable unit.

We think the Beave is actually going to go the hotel route (it already has the amenities and layout of a hotel anyway) and is probably best positioned in that area for that type of transition. Most of the units are unsold, it has a parking garage in the building, there are plans for a restaurant downstairs (can you say Dos Caminos or something else tourist-friendly?), it's close to the South Street Seaport and the concierge focus (hello Beaver Butler) is perfect for a hotel conversion.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/cilf-of-week-15-william-st-william.html

I love the Beaver as well - so much that I'm strongly considering renting (for the time being) there. But this hotel-route idea you brought up is bothering, to say the least. I really wouldn't want to deal with careless, noisy and annoying tourists (Dos Caminos - ouch!).

Is there a way to confirm if that's really an option the William Beaver House is considering? For example, would/should the owner who's renting out the apartment know?

Second, how would a hotel even be feasible? From what I know, they're currently selling/renting units across all floors, therefore couldn't use, say, the ten first floors as hotel, and the rest for residences (a la 75 Wall). Or could you imagine they'd just mix it all up, tenant next to hotel guests, next to tenant, etc?

wow- that is interesting.. how would they turn it into a hotel? would they re- configure the apts. and what about the people who live in it now.

How many hotels are needed down there?
75 Wall is supposed to be half condo and half hotel.
Why anyone would want to live there as a condo is a baffling question. So then the owners (who have to be foreign) will rent out for corporate long-term stays.

Yes...it is interesting. We don't know exactly how the Beaver House would make it work, but as far as we know, only about 50 units are actually occupied right now (probably fewer given that 50 is an estimate from the sales office), so our guess is that they will take the remaining (sold) units and offer some type of a deal to owners to allow a hotel-type rental arrangement.

We are thinking hotel only because it seems to be the most profitable use for the property since that area could actually use a hotel right now - the W is still at least a year away (if not more) from completion - and the rental market is absolutely flooded with units. We ran into a broker today who told us that 75 Wall is in full court press on renting out unsold units (who knows if it's true, but interesting nonetheless) which makes a rental conversion at Beaver House even less appealing.

Additionally, part of the Beave's "concierge service" (or so they tell us) is to rent out the units of investors, so anything that you are seeing for rent in that building is actually an owned (not a sponsor ) unit. That tells us that the sponsor is still trying to figure out what to do with the remaining units (e.g. sell them as a block etc.) which adds even more fuel to the hotel rumor.

-DT

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

Still wonder what the implications for renters would be (being potentially one of them)? In the case of a hotel conversion, could the owners simply annul an existing rental agreement?

nypaloto- i know you like the place but is it worth it??
have you looked at 20 pine.. that is a nice rental

what about the class action suit that started this thread?

RE2009 - also looked at 20 Pine. Like it as well, but not as much as William Beaver. But that was before I heard about the hotel rumors. I've already made a deposit and am going through the application process. Obviously, now I have to figure out if a) I should look elsewhere, and b) if I'd get my deposit back; doubt that rumors would count as reason to opt out. Darn.

I just saw "Beaver Butler" for the first time. First thing I could think of was "wow, now that's an amenity".

30yrs... how so?

Nypaloto - 20 Pine is definitely a safer bet although we also liked the Beave much better. The thing that is surprising to us is that the relative emptiness of the Beaver House should be translating into MAJOR rental concessions, since many other buildings in the area also have tons of availability but are also at least somewhat occupied. At the Beaver House though, the rental concessions seem to be completely lacking.

If you're paying $2k for a brand-new 1BR with a W/D in the unit at the Beaver House, we think who cares if the building is going all-rental or hotel or whatever. The problem with that building though is that the rents are still substantially above market ($3300k+ for 1BR? ridiculous) especially compared with buildings such as 20 Pine and the District which have similar amenities and are priced at least 20-30% lower for similar square footage.

We say stick with your rental IF you got a good deal - the building is great.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

-DT

30yrs - really? Do you like the remote features? What if it didn't conjure images of a cute beaver?

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

-DT

I do think that we got a good deal for a 2BR. Not great, but good. Call me paranoid, but I just want to be kicked out because the owner decides to do the hotel thing (should it even happen). And even if it wouldn't directly affect our apartment, I still don't feel like sharing the amenities (and frankly the entire building) with hotel guests who are into partying, not living.

As to the Beaver Butler, while it seems fun, it's definitely wasn't a deal breaker for me.

"What if it didn't conjure images of a cute beaver?"

Trust me, those weren't the images it was conjuring.

Think of one of the original (but now gone) RE websites of the same genre as this one.

William Beaver house? Looked at a place there. Over-priced turkey. Simply put, it stinks. That's right, folks: It's a stinky beaver...

i did not see the beaver butler... what's cool about it?

RE2009 - just wanted to point you to the link of the Beaver Butler on William Beaver's website, but the domain now redirects to Network Solutions! Seems like they forgot (or were unable?) to renew the domain registration!

Interesting Nypaloto - the poor Beaver. RE2009, Beaver Butler is a remote technology (as far as I can tell) that lets you do things like turn on/off the lights, A/C etc. in your unit from some remote location. I believe you can also schedule building services (such as a massage) as well.

They told us when we visited that the Butler is up and running - has anyone used this?

-DT

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/cilf-of-week-15-william-st-william.html

Haven't used it (yet), I'm afraid, but would be good to hear some first-hand experiences with it.

Was also told that the gym (and pool, squash court, etc) would open today (Monday, at 8:00 AM). Can anyone confirm if that happened.

i'm still missing what is so great about the beaver butler... oh well must be me
oh, i am curious about the pool ect too!!! i saw the pool, how does the gym look?

I was there last Thursday and both the Gym and Pool were sparkling - of course I was blinded by the spanking new equipment. And the outside whirl pool was ready to go as well.

I don't think you're missing anything, RE2009. The Butler wouldn't (or shouldn't) be a deal breaker, not at all. But like any other tech gadget or tool, there's enough there to create a Butler buzz, that's all.

i saw the pool. what is the gym like??? is it a full gym or more like a hotel set up? (sorry know you are sensative about the hotel thing!!!)

I was just about to recover from my hotel paranoia, and now you brought it back up again...! No worries.

Not quite sure what you mean by "hotel setup", though. I'd say it's a full gym with, from what I can tell, a good selection of top-of-the-line equipment. But of course the space is a bit limited (it extends to the exterior though). Haven't seen the yoga room (couldn't find it!). What I like about this gym (as opposed to 20 Pine) is that you're not down in the basement, rather, have windows and can look and go outside.

thanks, what i meant by hotel set up is nice amount of equipment but you really can't give up your gym membership if you are a serious gym person.

The gym is high quality - we would not need a separate membership. Nypaloto, the yoga room is great! The gym was completely empty when we visited though (the sales agent needed to search for the lights) but we already know that emptiness is a charter feature of the Beaver House :)

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

So nice, pool, gym, hot tub. why do you think the beav is si empty... is it the price, poor sales people or just a boor innocent beaver caught in a recession. seems like this building was hit the hardest

So I think there are a few things working against the Beaver. The most important factor is probably timing - the first closing there didn't occur until 11/2008, after Lehman. As a comparison point, 20 Pine, which is probably the most comparable building in the area, starting closing more than 6 months prior.

Also, the Beaver is a HUGE building, so that exacerbates the timing issue considerably since they started closing around the time that banks started looking at % sold etc., which probably meant that many buyers couldn't close. And finally, I think the Beave's location is slightly less desirable than some of the buildings further west, although this is certainly debatable.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

i agree with everything you said.. i think it's snowball effect fot them. add in a very poor group of sales people (most of them cannot be bothered) and the type they marketed to. i know they changed their marketing but at that point i think it was too late. it was and will forever (well maybe not forever) a grown up frat house, the concept was cool for awhile but we live in a different world now.
Anyone know of people who walked away from their deposits?

The pricing is still ridiculous. A unit at 20 Pine just closed for $600 psf, which is less than half the price of units being offered at William Beaver. WBH was built for a Wall Street that is gone forever.

Poor Beave getting all caught up in this mess, what did he ever do other then try to build a luxury condo marketed to DB's, not his fault. It's like poor Bella, the Lehman guard dog.
Ok- let call it. What do we think will happen to WBH... drastic price cuts, hotel, rental, tear down???

Don't count the Beave out yet, but don't touch it at anything close to these prices. I don't know the average size of the units, but 1000 sf would seem close enough. They only paid $25m for about 320k of buildable square feet (not counting common areas). Contrast that to the Toy Center, which traded hands last year at $1000 per convertible square feet. They only paid, unless my math is way off, about $80 per buildable (apartments) square feet. Just consider the possibilities.

i get the feeling they would rather die then lower their prices

with 320 apartments eventually they won't have a choice. they have a lot of room, but right now they are trying to maximize profits during early days of closings. they won't start truly negotiating until they have gotten through everyone who is in contract.

anyone know if many of the initial buyers walked away from their deposit.
if you bought a one bed there and put down 150k while horrible to walk away from seems like the smart thing to do

"i get the feeling they would rather die then lower their prices"

hopefully they will get their wish? ;)

I think the rumors of hotel conversion are unfounded. I love the WBH. The gym and spa just opened and it is incredible. The layout is similar to an Equinox gym. Rumor has that Tom Brady bought a condo for his wife (Giselle) as well as Spanish filmaker Pedro Almodovar. As far as I am concerned most initial buyers negotiated extensions to close the units. I am thinkin gon moving in there as soon as my lease is up. i am going to place an offer for $3,300 for a one bedroom unit in a high floor.

You go RMoody! Long live the Beaver! I like the building as well, and - unless the board rejects our application - my wife and I will be joining Giselle and Pedro in a couple of weeks.

Of course, that doesn't put the hotel rumors to rest, but good to know that there are more Beaver supporters.

Wally? June?

> Rumor has that Tom Brady bought a condo

Yes, Tom Brady was sick and tired of all the good neighborhoods, so he bought nowhere near them in FiDi to save himself 10% off the prices in better neighborhoods.

You really do eat up the shillspeak, don't you?

Wally - no. June - yes. Renting, though.

i think renting is a great idea... nice gym/pool and the price is right for renting...
my comments/concerns have been regarding buying

RMoody - not sure if you really need to "offer" 3300k for a high-floor 1BR. That sort of pricing is top of the market asking price these days (assuming you are looking at one of the 700 sq ft units that they available).

Nypaloto - let us know how it goes! We love that building and would actually be quite pumped to live there too.

-DT

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

We've been so confused by the voluminous "By Owner" craigslist ads for rentals in the Beaver House, that we decided to pop by and see what was going on - I guess not too surprisingly, it's mostly investors who own blocks of apartments and have all hired individual brokers to try and rent them out:

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/skinny-on-all-of-those-rentals-at-beave.html

The amenities are looking good btw!

-DT

So what do you think down.... building will basically be all renters???

Walk? who would walk from a $6mil 1600 sf penthouse or a $4m 1 bdr?

yikes!!!!!