Can anyone offer insight into UES elementary schools?

PS6 is te best school on the UES. Alumni of PS6 include yours truly.

Most are listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_East_Side, with links to rankings, etc.

My favorite is Ramaz, just based on what I hear from friends in education and some alumni. Happy kids, etc. Can be awkward having the kids be more observant than the parents, acting as Shabbos police, and so on.

PS6 is by far the best and the premium is built into the apt price. Compare this to apts zoned for PS290 and you'll see.

UES private schools remain extremely challenging to get into and the interview process will drive any parent insane. PS6 is top rated but overcrowded. The differential in apartment prices is based on the apt. location, not the zoned school. PS6 in on Madison and west of Lexington commands a premium. PS 290 is between 1st and 2nd and there is absolutely no comparision between desirability and realty prices between that area and say park ave.

Desirability of school district is always in the mix when it comes to pricing the RE (along with location, location, and location). Related touted PS6 when it marketed The Lucida.

> PS6 is te best school on the UES. Alumni of PS6 include yours truly.

Conflicting statements.

The best schools in Manhattan should be graduating folks who can build careers which would allow them to live in Manhattan...

;-)

rmrmets, i'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. ps6 zone is more expensive because it includes park, madison and 5th avenues. 290 is cheaper because it does not.

also, doesn't that mean they broke some kind of realtor law by even mentioning the school?

alex09, i think that was a recent clarification to the fair housing laws. prior to that it wasn't uncommon although some brokerages had discontinued the practice for fear of lawsuits if properties were mapped out of school zones.

alex09, so are you saying that the desirability of a public school for your kids has absolutely NO impact on the RE price? In general 9and not particular to these elementary schools) I think it is very common for parents to factor in the avoidance costs of a $35K/yr private school when comparing RE in different school districts. Sure, it's about location, but it's not ALL about location. Look at the outrage among parents whose kids were going to be bused to a different elementary school in BPC recently. Do you think they would have even considered moving there if they knew their kid would end up at a different (and supposedly inferior) public school? So, all else equal, parecel A sitting next to parcel B, parcel B commands a higher ppsf because it is zoned in a "better" school district.

that's not what i said at all, and that wasn't your original point. but yes, i still insist that the prices in ps6 zone have very little to do with ps 6.

er1to9, here you go

http://insideschools.org/index12.php?

imo, the order is 6, 290, 158, 183.

for some reason it doesn't include ps 59, but you can look that up too. it's on 63rd st and the cachement stretches from 68th at some parts all the way down to 43rd.

these are publics. i haven't started studying up on the privates yet.

i'm sorry, that doesn't take you to my search. but the zoned schools are 198, 6, 290, 158, 183, 59. the selective schools are hunter and lower lab ps 77.

what happens if you are not zoned for a school , but live in the ues? 89th and york......when i plug in my address into insdieschools.org......i only get 6-8.......is there some kind of lottery system that you can choose?

that means you are in the ghost zone 151. you apply to all the schools in the area and your child will be placed in one. the rumors about 151 are that either a) you are getting a new school, or b) you will be merged with 158. but for now you have to schlep your kids to one of the other schools.

....which is a pain, but you have a decent chance of getting into ps6 without paying twice your mortgage for half the space

thx alx09.....transportation is not a problem......still gonna be cheaper then 32k a year...

er 1 to 9, I think the latest for your zone (aside from the lottery system) is that a temporary school will open up at a church on 90 or 91st between 1st and 2nd. I forget which street. A new school is being constructed near or at the azure.

i thought the school that's moving into the azure space is east side middle. and the vacated space at 158 will be used to accommodate some or all of 290's k-2. at least this is what i've heard and read.

this is still for next year

http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1A9522BB-5651-451C-847F-9B6BF2B65710/51434/D2151CoverLettertoParents011209.pdf

are they good school's?

I live in Manhattan.

here you go

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_29064_year_2007.html

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_29070_year_2007.html

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_29049_year_2007.html

more..

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_29065_year_2007.html

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_29056_year_2007.html

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindivphp/SchID_29066_year_2007.html

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=sc/scid=26392,25871,25808/pid=sr/up_mr=5/up_zc=10021/up_so=1/up_sc=0/up_p=-1/up_fp=1/up_ctxt=922954

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=sc/scid=26358,26038,26301/pid=sr/up_mr=5/up_zc=10021/up_so=1/up_sc=0/up_p=-1/up_fp=1/up_ctxt=922954

you can look up the official reports from doe here

http://schools.nyc.gov/Accountability/default.htm

this is a good resource for d2

http://www.cecd2.net/home.

great info, thx

So, bottom line would be that every P.S. in the UES below 87th (meaning below the area zoned for 198) scored in the 80s and 90s in math and reading proficiency, and therefore could be considered a solid and relatively trustworthy school for someone who doesn't have an overriding desire for his/her kids to be the absolute academic top? Can we be that general?

yes, we can

There is a new public school going into the highschool on east 88th between york and 1st...that is where the 'unzoned" kids are going to go...that would have been 181...next school year sept '09 those kids are supposed to be housed somewhere else while it it being converted... i think the school on east 96th...198? The east side middle is going into the azure building....the new dev that crane incident that fell on the electra building last year.

i meant 151 not 181...forgot the correct #

i have been reading that even though someone moves to a zoned school area...that doesn't mean if there is no room they won't be rejected..it was just written about ...i think last week

ap2492 - re: the E 88th St location, I heard yesterday from a parent who is zoned for PS 290 but currently waitlisted for K because of the overflow (reported in the NYT a couple of weeks ago and discussed recently on other SE threads) that there may be kindegarten classes on E 88th St in Sept 09. The whole situation seems very fluid, and in any case PS 290 may open up for all zoned kids once G&T placement sorts itself out and people holding K spots at both PS 290 and a private school (I know some) decide for sure to pay the rest of the money and go private.

On your other post, I believe that status upon moving into a zone depends in part on the registration process at each school. At PS 290, for example, there was a date (March something?) by which zoned families had to apply for Sept 09 kindergarten in order to benefit from the zone preference, and you had to establish residency in the zone prior to this date. Through that process, many were offered places and some waitlisted based on a lottery. As spots open up, the waitlist will get addressed and if further spots remain I believe that later zone applicants (for example, new residents or existing residents who missed the original application date) get the next look. This is just one example; there do not seem to be fixed system-wide rules.

Thanks for the update..it seems very confusing...It is a good thing this new elementary school is opening...there were a lot of "unzoned" kids on the upper east side that will now have a zoned school.

alex 09, my son is on the wait list in PS290 kindergarter for next year. Could you please clarify where you have heard that vacated space of 151 will accommodate PS290 kindergarten?

this is the doe proposal, scroll down to p5 for ues

http://www.cecd2.net/www/cecd2/site/hosting/District%202%20Blueprint.pdf

this is the community council's response saying hell no you can't split our school

http://www.cecd2.net/www/cecd2/site/hosting/CEC2%20ResponseTo%20Blueprint.pdf

this is ps 290's response saying hell no you can't split our school

http://www.cecd2.net/www/cecd2/site/hosting/PS%20290%27s%20Response%20to%20Blueprint.pdf

this is doe's response to them saying basically nothing

http://www.cecd2.net/www/cecd2/site/hosting/The%20DOE%27s%20Response%20to%20Resolution%2021.pdf

you should contact the cec for more details

the vacated space will be at ps 158 at york and 77th

Alex 09 -- thank you. This is very interesting and I was not aware of these discussions. So aggravating!

dear ap2492, it is NOT a good thing that they will be opening a new school for the former 151 kids. It is not even a school! For september this year, the DOE will rent 3 basement classrooms in Wagner High school, and the boys & girls will have to share the same co-ed bathroom with 2 toilet stalls. Then the following 2 yrs, this "school" will be relocated to another rental site. And the on the 4th yr, the DOE will move it again to a so-called-permanent site! My 5 yr old is in PS6 now, but my 2 yr old (who's in private school now), will be shuttled to 2 or 3 different school sites during his k-5 education. I'm so desperate i'm even considering selling my coop now to ditch this whole situation before my coop looses value. I've seen plenty of properties in the ps 151 zone now being advertised as "PS 6 or PS 290 eligible" (which is very misleading, and borderline unethical, but that's another discussion). Imagine by this fall, when all of a sudden, the line will read "you 5 yr old daughter will go to school in the basement, and share a toilet with the boys, with temporary teachers, no library, and will have to move 3 times before she finishes 5th grade"

jmarrk - thanks for the detailed update. this sounds bad. is this official news from the DOE or the neighborhood grapevine?

I think you are charitable in your description of the false advertising about PS6/290 eligibility as borderline unethical. I would go with outright unethical myself.

4 questions for the school experts here:

Does a child attending:

1) PS 6 as opposed to a good/top private elementary school stand a WORSE chance of making it to Harvard/Yale/Princeton, etc. I'm talking statistically- I know it depends on the child ultimately.

2) PS 6... stand a worse chance of getting into private secondary school?

3) PS 290... to Harvard etc.

4) PS 290... private secondary school?

jmarrk, i think your 2 yo can attend ps 6 because he/she has a sibling at the school. you should keep calling both ps 6, doe, the community education council, make a big stink and don't back down. you definitely have a shot. this sounds like a nightmare, i'm so sorry.

Sorry, fully understand your sentiment jmark but sharing a bathroom for 5yr olds is not a big deal.

I am a high school teacher in the UWS in public school and must say that as long as your child is in a safe, nurturing, stimulating educational environment in elementary school, you should be happy! Where you go to elementary school has NO bearing on your future college (let alone high school in NYC, trust me!), so we can all breathe a sigh of relief!

What makes PS6 better than PS 183? PS 183 is zoned for the East 70's, where property values for "family apts" are still quite high!!! Just b/c you don't live on/near Park Avenue or Madison Avenue does not make your elementary school any worse.

Be happy with zoning for elementary school b/c the application process for high school will make you MAD!!

So I just re-read the BOE website pertaining to elementary school and am appalled to see that starting in Fall 2009 elementary assignments won't all be zone related!!!!!!! Why does the competition of an application have to start so early???? My high school students have enough issue with it.

Where is the notice regarding elementary assignments not being zone related? Please give the link? I'm considering moving from my spacious new Harlem development sometime during the next year to an UES address in a good school district. Definitely want to know if zoned schools change!

Latest from the Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/nyregion/01kindergarten.html?hp

Thanks for posting the article. I wonder how 6, 290 and 158 are doing on this issue (whether there are waiting lists or not and how long they are).

http://insideschools.org/blog/?url=http://insideschools.org/blog/2009/05/05/the-incredible-shrinking-waitlist-from-doe/

the waitlisted numbers are: 25 at PS 6, 40 at PS 59, 30 at PS 183, and 57 at PS 290.

Here's my question: does that mean that PS 158 and 198 actually have no waitlist? And furthermore, since the article said "there is no waitlist for PS151", does that mean that they only got placed in PS158/198? Or does that mean that they got placed into PS6/59/183/290, despite the fact that there are still over a hundred kids who are actually zoned and are still waiting to get into those 4 schools?

What I want to know is if your kid is "waitlisted" for a kindergarten and is let's say 10th on the waiting list how do you know that the kid who is 20th on the list isn't bribing someone somewhere to get their kid in before yours. Or what if some politically connected family chooses not to send their kid to a private school after all and now wants their kid enrolled in the public school and somehow gets their kid enrolled with fancy lawyering?

They should publish the wait list and the currently accepted students now and on the first day of class. That way everyone knows who got added and if it was done in the proper order with no favoritism.

My wife and I don't have any children yet, but we're apartment hunting and are beginning to consider the NY public school issue. Could someone please tell me where to find objective rankings of the various public school districts in Manhattan? When people tell us that their kid's school is ranked as being one of the best in the city, what are they basing that on? As an aside, it seems like everyone we talk to believes they live in the best school disctrict in their area (by the way, that's not unique to Manhattan, it's just something we've noticed as a general matter). Any help on this would be much appreciated!

BigRagu - "best schools" is a buzz word for the vast majority of the kids having well-educated parents, with very few minority kids from the projects. What is the zone for PS6, from 5th Avenue to Lexington Avenue? I would hope this school has the highest test scores.

i found schooldigger.com to be the most trustworthy site. insideschools and greatschools get some of their rating from parents, schooldigger gets it from results. there are plenty of dilusional parent who think their school is the best eventhough it has been put on the Need Improvement list.

Thanks prettykitty and ab_11218. I spoke to a couple brokers this week who referred to an article on school re-zoning from the Times a couple weeks ago. They said they're not allowed to discuss what district an apartment might be in. What is all this about? Also, one of them mentioned something about a March deadline for moving or else you won't be able to qualify for the catchment you're moving into. This sounded crazy to me, and maybe I misunderstood, but does anyone know what she was talking about?

BR: it's almost pointless to buy now. If you conceived today, your child will not be entering K for 5 years by which time the entire landscape might be different. It's not as if rentals are hard to come by.

10023, absolutely. if you need a public school and your child is under 3ish (or not yet born) just rent and wait.

use this site (http://maps.nycboe.net/) to look up the zoning. click on search by school, then enter the school number and borough, then click on elementary schools & zones. this map provides you the current outline of where you can purchase based on the school.

since there is rezoning going on, i would not buy on the outer parts of the zone.

Reviving the thread. If I am reading the articles right, they are reopening PS 151. It also says they closed it in 2001 for under-enrollment and poor academic performance. Is there any way to predict/guess how the new school will stack up against, say 290, 183, etc. Is it a safe bet that it'll be worse?

We're looking at some apartments in zone 151, and our kids would to to that new school in a few years. Should we be concerned? Not sure I love the idea of being guinea pigs...

thanks for any thoughts.

nb99 - here are a couple of links to the new PS 151. It's a fresh start vs. the old one that was shut down for poor performance and a dilapidated building that has since been demolished. As I understand it, the current building is a former Catholic school that the DOE now rents from the church.
http://insideschools.org/index12.php?fs=1979&all=y
http://ps151school.wikispaces.com/

On the guinea pig point, I hear you. The principal and staff seem to be young and motivated and represent a key element of the fresh start. I believe there was a Times article a few months ago about the new principal and her plans for the school. If they are able make something out of this school and it takes root (parents get into it, strong PTA organization develops, etc.), it could be great. If not, well... I do think that the right way to look at it is as a start-up venture and consider the risks and opportunities of that, rather than looking at the previous failure ("the school formerly known as PS 151", if you will) and drawing some link to the current one. I think the only link is the numerical designation.

In terms of outlook for a start-up school, the model to aspire to would be PS 290, which was a new venture in the early '90s and has only been a neighborhood school for 15 years. It was started by a motivated principal and staff and given some latitude by the DOE to make the thing work, which it has, both under the original and current leadership. See history here: http://www.manhattannewschool.org/

Clearly PS 6 is the established player and, I believe, the safest bet in the area. 290 is the successful newcomer. I don't know much about 183 and 158. 151 is the new kid and I expect that it will be a few years before it becomes clear to what extent it is taking root and thriving. One other issue to consider with PS 151 is that the DOE doesn't own the building, so keeping long-term control over the space may be an issue. Or it may not. I have not seen any public disclosure of the length of the lease between the DOE and the church.

What happened to the 181 children on the waitlist for the UES schools? Does anyone know where they were sent as overflow?

Ok, reviving the thread again, almost two years after it started...

Our oldest is turning 4 this summer, will be going to pre-K fall 2011 and to Kindergarten fall 2012. We are (finally) very seriously looking to buy and public school zones are a key criteria.

Can someone explain the story with PS 267? I am seeing conflicting information about what exactly it is and where/how it's zoned.
http://www.cecd2.net/www/cecd2/site/hosting/Upper%20East%20Side%202011-2012%20Zone%20Lines.pdf
This appears to indicate that some buildings currently zoned for PS 59 or PS 183 will be zoned for PS 267 going forward. But articles about PS 267 seem to say something different. Does anyone know the real story, and/or can point me to reliable sources? Should I just call the DOE or PS 267?

Thanks again.

Info on PS 267? Anyone?

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