2nd Avenue Subway Construction

as a professional gambler, I advise you to TAKE THE OVER. No matter what ANYONE tells you. It will take LONGER, be NOISIER, be UGLIER and be a huge PAIN IN THE ASS to deal with. Think 14th st in the 80's.

cb1, we lived on Second Avenue for years, and the noise was unbearable even before the subway construction started. Especially down south of 72nd street, the avenue feeds into the 59th Street bridge and many hours of the day you get awful, noisy, unrelenting traffic jams: horns honking (including ear-splitting big truck air-horns), people yelling, engines idling. UGH. I am so glad to be outta there. Wouldn't advise it for anyone.

Thanks for the feedback! Otto I was tempted to "ignore" the proximity to the 59th street bridge because I like the apartment so much, but good to hear that I need to take that into account.

It's not bad uptown (80s/90s) and I think will add value longer term. But, to patient's point.. it may be VERY long term.

hurting, I know of an apt in the 90s that has structural damage die to the amount of jackhammering on the street. It's just awful up there...between noise, air quality, traffic, etc. and it's not going away anytime soon...

I also disagree with hurting re: 90s. It has been a real mess between 91st and 95th for two years or so, although this activity is starting to wind down and the next phase (tunnel boring) will be mostly underground. Work has started around 72nd St recently on the early stages of building the 72nd St station. I don't know if this will be as long or as disruptive as the work in the 90s has been. As to the diagnosis of "not bad" in the 80s, because there has been no work done in the 80s yet. Duh. Work starts soon on the 86th St station. As with 72nd St, I'm not sure whether the surface level disruption will be as significant as it has been in the low 90s.

The conventional wisdom is that this adds value over time. I would think more on 1st, York and EEA, rather than 2nd since 2nd is not much of a hike to Lex in the first place. As for the time, when work started in the 90s in spring 2007, the SAS was a six year project with service starting in 2013. After a year, it was a 7 years remaining project with service starting in 2015, so the timeline actually went backwards in the first year. I don't know the latest, but my advice would be not to hold your breath.

I lived in Los Angeles when they built the subway there & then lived in Boston at the tail end of the Big Dig & there were major local problems due these huge constructions, probably an unavoidable by- product of such a massive project. I agree with patient09 to expect a real long term mess, alas.

cb1 referenced a high floor. On a high floor in the low 90s, and it's really not that bad. And as noted above, the worst for our area seems to be behind us. Short-term it's not wonderful, but longer-term it will improve the area. It reminds me of the reno of Grand Central in the 90s. I hated it each and every day, but now I love GCT and the hassles are a distant memory and the result very much worth it. For those in Yorkville, we really need the subway and the short -term pain will give us long term gain.

how is the noise when you are in the unit?

Romary - The noise in the unit was fine, but we've only been there after 7 at night.

It's in the very low 70's, so just where they're starting construction now.

Thanks all for your feedback. We're also worried about a heavier than normal coating of the lovely NYC dirt that you get on your windows with the construction.

Another point, will values rise in the area after this thing is completed? I want to buy a place on the far east side and plan on living their at least 10 years.

Reddog - if you're not right on top of the subway stop, they should rise. The apartment we're looking at is right on top of the subway stop, which may be detrimental.

You need to decide if you want to own something that will have lot of ambient noise regardless of subway construction. Second Ave is never going to be quiet, not have extra pollution, etc.

I figure that, current economics aside, that 2nd, 1sy and perhaps York Ave apartments will rise in value if it is ever completed. Right on top of the subway stop should make it rise AFTER construction is done. Instead of walking over two blocks, your right by a subway. Maybe I`m wrong though...

You are right. The east east 70s are one of the cheapest parts of Manhattan south of 96th. When there is an express stop in that neighborhood, its a game changer. AND, the end of construction (which is pretty bad right now) in itself will help the cause.

I have an apartment at 305 E 72nd (and 2nd Ave), the current epicenter of the subway earthquake.

Short term You definitely wanna check out the noise during weekdays, they quit at 6 PM or so. Our apt has windows north and east, there is very little noise but we can hear the jackhammers in the distance now. This apt. used to be pin-drop quiet before this very very heavy construction.

The subway entrance is going into the building east of ours on 72nd St. They wanted to put it into our building (bye-bye CVS) but our lawyers were better and quicker than the other lawyers and the entrance was moved. Some parking spaces will be forever lost on 72nd St. to accommodate the new entrance.

I expect our apt to increase in value by at least 10%, maybe significantly more, when the subway is nearer completion. At that time I plan to trade up.

If I could afford to buy another apt in our building right now I would in a heartbeat, it's a terrific location and building and the subway essentially improves the location long-term. There are 5 apts for sale that I know about.

Isnt it likely to take 10 years to complete?

Phase 1 is not really a game changer. Where does it go? 125 To 63rd?? OK maybe it takes a little stress off the the 6.
Game changer?
Not so sure.

falco, you're confusing new track with new route. The new route enabled by Phase 1 is an extension of the Q line -- Broadway Express. Game changer for Yorkville.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway

Absolutely. A train that not only adds to the UES capacity, but brings the capacity much further east (turning far from subway blocks to subway blocks) AND happens to be the train that crosses to the west side.

Absolutely a game changer.

cb1, hang in there, the subway will add gazillions to your value when finished.

The $64 question is how much the subway is already priced into sale prices in Yorkville -- the balance between the current down market, the "subway block" element, and the "Curse of the Bambino"-type history of plans, starts, and cancellations . . . ?

Anyway, the Lex IRT is truly insufferable.

alanhart,

I go back and forth on that, but today I think it probably isn't really priced in, at least not fully so. Just that first phase is still years away (and they keep pushing it up a year every so often - I wish that trend would go away), and with so much up in the air, not to mention the budget issues, I can't imagine too many people are banking on it at this point. It'll help the eastern stretches of the UES, no doubt, but the transformation is many years away, I think - probably outside the timeline of all but the most longterm of owners.

"The $64 question is how much the subway is already priced into sale prices in Yorkville -- the balance between the current down market, the "subway block" element, and the "Curse of the Bambino"-type history of plans, starts, and cancellations . . . ?"

I don't think much at all because.

1) People overall seem to hate the UES these days anyway
2) The date keeps getting pushed back, and its still so far away I don't think folks really factor it into their day to day
3) Especially if you're on second avenue, the traffic/noise/craziness factor from the construction so outweighs the longer term benefit if you're trying to sleep
4) I haven't actually heard any potential buyer actually name it... "well, I'll be able to take the T in five years" as part of their buying process.

In the big picture, UES has trailed everywhere else since the announcement and funding through the peak... its actually done relative worse. So, mathematically, I don't think you can make the case it got "priced in".