Buying in Williamsburg vs. Holding in Manhattan

Ah, one more thing ... the Union Sq. joint is a strict co-op, so renting is not a realistic option.

Life is short. Listen to your heart.

acd19,

Do what benefits you.

What's so great about Williamsburg? I've never been. Maybe I should be looking there. My wife says its a concrete jungle with no trees and old warehouses and none of our friends will visit.

There's only one unit left in Mason Fisk, I think, so you may miss out there. There's a new warehouse conversion right next door, though. I haven't been in to see it, but it might be worth checking out. Similar era building at least. And I haven't heard any updates lately, but 184 Kent should be a pretty spectacular rental building when it's done. If you want to sit on your cash while you get to know the neighborhood.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

spinnaker1,

W'Burg a great neighborhood but its OVER HYPED. W'Burg is very close to Manhattan via bus and train L or J line. All of NYC a concrete jungle with limited amounts of trees and not limited to W'Burg. Soho & Tribeca has old warehouses that were converted into luxury residential apartments and that is where the idea comes in for W'Burg. Do visit W'Burg to see for yourself. Back to the opening statement W'Burg is OVER HYPED.

tina24,
what's the name of the conversion you mentioned ... I'd love to check it out. Also, I've noticed that Mason Fisk has only one unit left that is not "in contract" -- I can only hope to assume that a couple of those "in contract" units fall through due to glitches in financing, etc. Thks for the comment.

spinnaker1,
I've been living in Manhattan for over fifteen yrs, and have never really felt a strong neighborhood vibe anywhere I've been. W'burg definitely feels like a neighborhood. That said, it is certainly not for everyone, and I understand why some friends will refuse to come visit. Depending on the friend, that may be a good thing.

I would love Williamsburg if I was under 25 or a hipster family.

Maybe I'll go for a wander around.. In order to get a feel for it is there any particular area I should focus my attention??

I'd say it depends where you're working ....You can't beat the union square location. You can go anywhere on Manhattan really quickly. Moving to Williamsburg would add 2 times 15mn of commute every day to your work. For some people, this xtra 30mn/day wasted in transportation is too much. Also, if you like to go out in Manhattan at night, waiting 20mn between 2 trains when you're drunk seems a hell lot longer... :-S

I really warmed up to Williamsburg after a couple dinners at Diner and Marlow & Sons and a few breakfasts at Egg.

sledgehammer,
that's def one of my biggest concerns. i have heard some horror stories abt the manhattan bound L train in the mornings/late nights. I'm afraid I may have become spoiled by the union sq station.

spinnaker,
the biggest draw is bedford ave (rt outside the bedford L stop), then branch out from there to the adjacent streets between bedford and kent (the waterfront).

spinnaker, in my opinion, if you haven't been to Williamsburg, walk along Bedford Ave, North 6th, North 7th, Grand St, and Berry St, and any of the streets in between. North 12th is more or less the cutoff before you get into the gritty industrial section (close to the river) or McCarren Park (a bit further east). The one block radius around the Bedford Ave stop on the L is what gives the area its hipster stereotype, but once you get outside of that, you'll likely notice the neighborhood feel others mentioned above.

acd19, the L is not perfect, but I've had very few problems with it (this morning was actually the worst, as I walked to the J instead). I am concerned that when all the waterfront towers fill up there will be overcrowding at Bedford, but for now it is fine.

I think Tina makes a great point about parking your cash and renting while things play out in WB. The downside risk with the glut of new development is enormous. Let whatever's going to happen w/ NSP and The Edge happen. Will any of the other planned large scale developments (NSP 3, Edge Phase II, Domino) begin and expand the inventory even further? What will become of the buildings that haven't started closings but went to contract at the height of the bubble? If you walk or bike around WB and note all the convertible warehouses you'll know that there will never be a shortage over there, it's not like you'll miss your chance.

Renting also gives you the opportunity to see how the transportation works for you. As a Manhattan-side L train rider/complainer, I would not want that to be my only option without a bus and other trains that I use (the J, M and Z don't help me much) within walking distance.

acd19: I currently live in Manhattan and if the stars align properly I will be moving to 80 Metropolitan later this year. I think it is worth checking out as it is a very different product than all the other new developments in Williamsburg. Located perfectly between North and South Williamsburg and fairly close to the water. I'm sure the critics on here will chime in and say how boring and expensive the building is - each to their own. As for Williamsburg, I'm moving because I see a tremendous amount of potential. There is a lot of creative energy that is making the area exciting - new restaurants, new clothing stores, new furniture stores. And many of these new businesses are very high end. A couple of minutes to get there from Manhattan. Williamsburg is not Jersey City. Williamsburg is not Long Island City. I'm always up for exploring the area with others, and so, reach out if you want to catch up.

acd19 - it's a rental building, and I'm glad I checked, because they're showing them now:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/44-berry-street-brooklyn

Not cheap, and I haven't seen them yet, but as Mason Fisk-like as you're likely to find in a new development. It's an old seltzer factory where lots of my pals had studios and editing facilities and the like, back when I was a whippersnapper - and the sign painted on the side used to be misspelled "selter." Wonder if they fixed that...

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

I agree with tenemental,
Williamsburg is an unknown whereas Manhattan is more stable. Manhattan will be the first to recover while Williamsburg may continue to falter. I would wait until the picture in Williamsburg is clearer. Sell in Manhattan when things start to improve. At that point williamsburg will probably still be reaching for the bottom and you can swoop in.

I definitely agree with tenemental - if you're in no rush, you can definitely take your time looking in Williamsburg. I highly doubt we'll see NSP 3 or Domino, and the second Edge phase probably won't be done for a long time, so I'm not sure anyone should really worry about those developments at this point (unless you're buying a view that would be lost in the future). If you do find a particular building/unit that you love and want to go for it, I don't think you should hold back just because of the market, but don't put all your eggs in one basket either. Something else will come up if things fall through. It is a great neighborhood though, and if you're seriously considering it, renting for a year while things shake out is a great way to figure out if it's for you.

Although acd19, if you have concerns about capital gains from selling and not buying right away, that's indeed a tougher call. I can safely say you can negotiate pretty hard right now in several Williamsburg buildings and making aggressive bids can certainly work if you pick your spots well.

Lots of good advice here - As far as the L goes, my wife used to get on at 1st Ave in Manhattan and head west, the train is crowded, but you would have a short ride from Williamsburg. But my wife avoided that train during rush hour when she was pregnant - too packed.

spin,

A new bldg in W'Burg. Its not PRIME W'Burg but its still W'Burg @ a discount LOL.

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/05/checking_in_on_59.php

bjw2103, regarding capital gains and not buying right away, are you talking about the pre 1998 laws where you had a two year limit to buy again to avoid CGT?
http://www.allbusiness.com/personal-finance/individual-taxes-capital-gains-tax/669737-1.html

There has been no time limit on your primary residence (2 out of 5 year rule applies) since the 1998 tax year but you are capped at 250K single, 500K married/joint every 2 years - if you were that lucky!

1031 exchange for commercial property does have a time limit of 180 days and this is also a tax deferral.

i have lived all over, i mean ALL OVER. and, i was just thinking about living near union square a few years back because of an article i was reading, and thought, god, i hated it. just no real neighborhood feel like you indicate. union square is chain store hell.

i have lived in brooklyn nabes and 6 manhattan nabes and williamsburg is only one of 2 that i've loved (other was cobble hill). i bought a huge place near the L on the north side and couldn't be happier. go to all the wonderful restaurants - Rye that just opened to rave views is next on my list. i spend time at the water, at the park, and troll all the old italian stores on metropolitan east of the BQE too. my neighbors are terrific, the music venues, salons, galleries and shopping are more unique that where you live now. i don't think the burg is over-hyped. it's typically under-rated actually.

also, franklin street in greenpoint is great too if you aren't familiar with it. charming and has wonderful stores and restaurants.

good luck and have fun looking around.

divvie, thanks for the great explanation, I was indeed thinking of the 1031, as my parents have a lot of residential property and the topic comes up frequently.

wisco, if people's only exposure to Williamsburg is on real estate blogs, there is a lot of hype and vitriol thrown in that direction, but frankly, if you speak to most people, you'll get much more level-headed commentary.

wisco,
thnks for the great comments, makes me want to move tomorrow!

bjw,
in your opinion, which w'burg spots are the most open to some good aggressive bidding.

acd19,

I can't comment on specific buildings for sure, but I do think it's in your best interest to take a look at several buildings and get a sense from the brokers what kind of wiggle room you have. I think any building that's already occupied and has a few units left is your safest bet right now - you don't need to worry about waiting for a C of O or rentals. But each sponsor is different, so it makes sense to throw a couple aggressive bids out when you've seen a few places you like. If you'd like to reach out more offline, let me know - I'm glad to help out. Good luck!